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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
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    haha that'd be a pretty fun score to keep! currently i've just gone past my previous battle castle record - the aim is to get to 1000 (not that that wasnt the aim last time of course!). i used to have aims of getting to 1800 or whatever it was where the trainers are supposed to reset, but at the speed (or lack of speed) i've been going at, i don't think that'll ever happen. and besides, this is still on platinum, and i haven't even set foot in the SS tower.

    i always upgrade to the HP/PP combo upgrade. when i see milotic or blissey is likely to need PP restored during a set of 7, i usually try and do it when it would have otherwise needed an HP restor, and you do it for 12CP instead of 18CP by doing them separately - i've saved 6CP quite a lot of times like that, but i don't remember how many CP it costs for the upgrade......


    :)
  2. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    Yeah, you save 6 CP per use but the upgrade costs 100 CP so you're not in the positive until you use the combo 17 times. My longest streak so far has been 67 wins but I don't think I needed to restore PP more than once during the streak. Though I guess once your streak gets into the 800s, it starts adding up. :0

    I don't know if I'm getting better or just taking more risks. My CP high point after 35 wins is going up gradually (757 is my best so far; shooting for 800 lol). Of course, that just means I'm restarting my streak too many times. :(
  3. ashez

    ashez

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    177
    after countless trys and failures, i've had a break and now back for that 100 streak, in past i've loved using rain dance teams so this time i'm concidering using a hail team, but before i train/make it etc i want to know what you guys think
    so here we go :)

    Name:Abomasnow
    Evs:4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature:Modest/timid
    Item: Life orb
    Moves:
    Blizzard
    Energy Ball
    Shadow ball
    Hidden Power Ground

    great way to start the hail, removes sashes, beats missing hax thanks to blizzard, and quite good coverage

    then

    Name:Heatran
    Nature:Rash
    Evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Moves:
    Flamethrower
    Earthpower
    Explosion
    Hidden Power Electric

    to come in on all abomas weaknesses and clear due to great coverage again, come in get flash fire boost and sweep, explosion when needed etc basic heatran really

    finally

    Name: Frolass
    Nature: Modest
    Evs:
    Item: Choice specs
    Moves:
    Blizzard
    thunderbolt
    Psychic
    Trick

    follow up, covers the fight weakness greatly, also the main reason for psychic over shadow ball, trick for when in trouble make life bit easier specially if catch them on a pysical or stat move.

    i think the team works well on paper, and just want to see your views

    cheers
  4. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
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    can't say i thought of that actually! although i reckon i'd have used it somewhere close to 17 times lol.... actually, my last 100 or so battles i've been hovering around 2500 points. i used to really care about CP, and try and get more and more, but now i play a bit safer, knowing that i'm really not going to run out. also sometimes i play on the train, and if i leave my list of pokes behind, i spend quite a few points checking movesets etc, as its pretty essential to know that stuff with my kind of team. but if i'm really trying, and don't have too many tough teams to level-down, or skip, i can usually go up 30-50 CP per set of 7. being able to level heaps of things up is really good for points - blissey can take virtually all special attackers at level 55 with ease (barring things like some alakazams with focus blast, and i'm slightly worried about sniper kingdra getting multiple crits on draco meteor, i'm wary of sunny day overheat stuff too sometimes), and salamence can easily OHKO so many fragile fighting types with aerial ace, etc. non-attacking things, like umbreon, shuckle etc are easily dealt with with milotic since the effects of toxic disregard level entirely (so i could beat them at level 100 hehe).

    i dont know if i ever had as high as 757 by battle 35 though! i did the first 20-30 battles by levelling up all the pokes, not checking them, not buying items, and spamming outrage, but i don't remember how many points i had - nowhere near that much i dont think. i also bought upgrades whenever i could. might be fun to try this on SS (hopefully i'll be at 1000 on platinum, and then i'll probably just leave it at that, or maybe one day try and get up to 1800).

    can't see how this could be too bad. but as you say, you need to give it a try. the success of rain teams comes from the fact that many good pokes have swift swim - so rain actually helps increase their speed for free, and also makes their moves more powerful (and thunder more accurate). the only thing i'd be concerned about is that two of your pokes have choice items, and this could lead to you needing to switch a bit, and maybe even make a few sacrifices. still, you've just got to try it and see how you go.
  5. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    Crap like Charge Beam/Rest Ampharos will beat Blissey too if you get screwed over by parahax like I did (3 straight turns of paralysis when I was trying to Softboil followed by a crit KO after it raised its Spec Att a bunch of times :x). Though I'm sure having a Choiced revenge killer helps against that somewhat.

    I'm thisclose to ditching DD Gyara in favor of a Choice Bander. My last streak ended with a Blaze Kick burn preventing me from KOing a Bastiodon with Waterfall. Then it Swaggered Scizor which promptly dies to Stone Edge and two straight confusion hits. It gets another Swagger on Garchomp when Focus Band activates from my EQ. Infernape then CCs it to low enough health for confusion to kick in once more to KO Chomp. I had like 672 after 28 too. :[

    I think I can see why the Castle gets little attention though. It's probably the most grueling part of the Frontier since there's so many decisions to make. It's quite devastating to scout out movesets, crunch out damage calcs, and plan out your strategy only to get screwed over by repeated hax events. Especially when the team that haxes you out of your streak should have been destroyed otherwise (DDGyara vs Blaziken/Bastiodon/Infernape). Playing the doubles Tower after the Castle is a huge change of pace.
  6. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,120
    While the Castle is one of the most difficult facilities to play, it's nowhere near as grueling as the Factory. It's telling that even the top battlers here (Peterko, Jumpman, etc.) can hardly get to the second Thornton battle, while the Tower is basically a laughing stock.

    Also, a Slaking nearly haxed me early on in my current Factory streak. Let's see:

    - It unfroze from a lucky Ice Punch. (25%)
    - It hit me through Confusion with Fire Punch. (50%)
    - It got a crit. (6.25%)
    - It burned me. (10%)

    That's a 1 in 1280 chance of occuring. I still can't get past the first Thornton, the Factory is evil...
  7. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
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    2,458
    Perhaps grueling isn't the best adjective for the Castle. I'll admit I didn't consider the Factory since I've avoided playing it after getting the Silver print (we all know how tough that Gold print can be). <_<

    Disheartening is probably a better term since it taunts you with the hope of winning only to snatch it away from you with hax. See my DDGyara matchup above. The Factory is a conglomeration of luck since you can barely control your team. There are so many possible ways the game can stack the deck against you that it's not as discouraging when you do lose. In other words, I don't ever expect to win at the Factory but oftentimes I expect to breeze through a Castle match only to get flattened by hax. The "what ifs" also come into play - "should I have lowered Pokemon X's levels in anticipation of crit hax?" or "maybe I should've used a Lum in case Tri Attack freezes my Garchomp for 4 straight turns."
  8. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
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    1,120
    Fair enough. I'm just horribly scarred by bad things happening in the Factory.

    Horrible, horrible things.
  9. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
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    2,837
    yes that's true - my blissey has come close to death against a humble manectric through silly amounts of para/crit hax. my 839 streak ended due to para/crit hax (and one stupid mistake on my part) from a jolteon. and i also had a close call once with an electrode - bright powder, thunder wave, flash, swagger, charge beam - seriously, how haxy is that!! but having said all that, they still generally need a very long sequence of unlikely events to topple the mighty pink blob, and that's the key to success with these kinds of teams. i dont know why, but the last few days i have been missing against so many lax incense pokes for some reason, but generally it just makes a victory take longer, rather than totally screwing me over - i remember the days where i'd use stuff like starmie/salamence/weavile in the tower, and one miss/flinch/etc could mean the end of a match.

    i totally agree with your use of the word gruelling. and i'm glad to hear someone else thinks the same as me! you can't do trick stuff, due to having to buy back your scarf, and heal stuff, so you have to rely on more "classical" teams. this means you really have to plan out your strategy for each match, sometimes having to have two plans for whoever they send out next (if noone has a SE move, or if both backups have one, it seems random, although i've been trying to figure out for the life of me if there is a reason - it is not speed, or max move base power, or whether the SE move is also STAB, but that's another discussion i guess). being able to check their team really helps with the strategising, but also makes it take a long time. i could usually get through about 10 BT (trick based) battles on my train trip, but maybe 5 BC battles is about standard now. besides, i could do BT while i was doing other stuff (like marking tests lol) because most of it was just mashing buttons, whereas BC takes a lot more thinking - you even have to try and end battles with as high HP as possible (toxic is so awesome) in order to maximise CP, and minimise spending in between.

    yeah, i guess it's really my favourite facility of them all!! you get to use a fun team (not saying trick-teams are not fun - it's fun to murder the AI) and expect to get long streaks.

    as for the factory - i spent sooooo long in emerald getting gold (over 300 hours i think) because i wanted a gold trainer card. now that you dont need it in plat etc, ihavent really tried too hard. after a big(ish) BT streak ended in plat last year sometime, i gave it one shot, and lost in battle 14 to a way overpowered dragonaire who just murdered me. i dont think i'll try it again.
  10. pokemonwargeneral

    pokemonwargeneral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    Greetings! I have news of my latest battle castle streak that I hope gets posted here. date june 16th, I reached a streak of 293 at battle castle using:

    Lateon/latios. timid. 252 sp.atk, 252 speed, 6 hp. move set-psychic, ice beam, thunder bolt, dragon pulse.
    Technician/scizor. impish. 252 hp, 252 def, 6 sp.def. move set-bug bite, bullet punch, swords dance, roost.
    Stephanie/garchomp. jolly. 252 atk, 252 speed, 6 hp. move set-earthquake, outrage, aqua tail, fire fang.

    As for my strategy, I rented choice band for garchomp, choice specs for latios, and usualy lum berry for scizor. personaly this streak was kinda easy because I lowered the level of pokemon that posed threats( for example, regice, I lower it by 5 levels to protect lati and chomp) and raised the level of pokemon I could easily knock out( for example, salamence, I raise it's level by 5 out run it with specs timid latios and ohko it with either ice beam or dragon pulse based on who was the next pokemon to come out.)

    However, I lost to a bright powder adament regigas, modest regice, and a bold suicune, the 294th opponent. I lowered all there levels by 5. Match started, they sent out regigigas I sent out specs latios. I used psychic but it missed, then he crushed grip latios to under half hp. I switched in scizor next turn, crush grip, does sand storm % damage. I use swords dance, he use stone edge, I use 2nd swords dance, he gets critical stone edge putting me near half green hp.

    I use final swords dance(for some stupid reason I didn't use roost) and he connects his 3rd stone edge putting me a little under yellow by the end of this turn regi gets his act together. I go for bug bite, he out runs me of course and uses stone edge and gets another CRITCAL hit koing scizor(I knew I would of taken it, but he got the critical, guess I should of bullet punched). I send out Ms.garchomp, she uses choice band outrage putting regigas on very low yellow, he crush grips her to half yellow, she knocks him out and gets confused that end turn. they send out suicune, I swith out latios, suicune ice beams him away, I send Ms.chomp back out, choice band outrage it to very low yellow(my god bold suicunes power!) then he Ice beams her away too (why was 4x ice weakness chomp banned again?)

    anyway thats how I lost, still a very high streak that comes in third place on smogon rank list for battle castle. I have picture proof on a Nintendo DSI, I just need to figure out how to post it here!
  11. andrewn630

    andrewn630

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    21
    I think where you went wrong in your streak was not breaking your paragraph down into more readable paragraph. Also, Garchomp is banned in OU because he has phenomenal stats with a phenomenal movepool, not because of his 4X weakness to ice. Almost every pokemon has a 4X weakness, at at least a bunch of 2X.
  12. pokemonwargeneral

    pokemonwargeneral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    @andrew630
    Ooook, anyway greetings andrew630! Indeed my streak was great, I wish I could of fought better to get even higher. As for chomp, just joking bro! I know because of it's lowered base special attack stat. it has the defenses of dragonite and the sweep capability of salamence=Uber.... I still don't like that yesterday, I choice band out raged porygon(basic stage too) who was 5 level higher than me at castle, and IT took it, then finished off my 80% hp chomp with Icy wind LoL!
  13. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
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    2,837
    @pokemonwargeneral - i'd really like to read about your streak, but please try and edit your post so it looks more like this:

    it's almost impossible to read your previous post!
  14. UPPERDECKER

    UPPERDECKER

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    251
    Damn, tried again in Doubles using the same team and lost at Battle 115.

    555 | Gengar | Modest | Life Orb | Shadow Ball | Dream Eater | Hypnosis | Substitute | SpA/Spe

    He used Shadow Ball on Dusknoir for a OHKO (no CH). I didn't know it could OHKO my Dusk with SB :((
    This trial and error thing sucks.
  15. KevlarX290

    KevlarX290

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    486
    Oh wow...I wish I read through this thread before losing my streak at the Battle Hall. I wouldn't have made my Salamence use Outrage had I known that stupid Venusaur had a Focus Sash...
  16. MacG

    MacG

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    Got to battle 189 in Diamond with tradeback pokes.
    The team is as follows:

    Uxie @ Choice Scarf (Trickster) original, I know
    Ability: Levitate
    Bold Nature
    EVs: 252 HP/ 184 Sp Def / 72 Def
    Trick
    Thunderwave
    Flash
    Memento

    Scizor@Leftovers (TheFly)
    Ability: Technician
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 80HP/252Atk/4Def/4SpD/168Spe
    Swords Dance
    Substitute
    Bullet Punch
    Superpower


    Shiny Latias @ Draco Plate (GoldenEye)
    Ability: Levitate
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 244 HP / 20 Def / 160 Sp Atk / 84 Spe
    Calm Mind
    Substitute
    Recover
    Dragon Pulse

    Lost to lead Crobat. Confused uxie on first turn.
    Uxie hurt by confusion. Took hit from brave bird, then I locked him into it.
    He fainted uxie after TWave, but without me getting a momento in.
    Brought in scizor and swords danced. Crobat paralysed.
    Swords Danced again, stupidly. Hit me with brave bird with a CH. Scizor faints.
    Battle is all but over. Calm mind twice with latias, then recovered and subbed.
    I calm mind again and crobat breaks my sub with CH. I calm mind a fourth time.
    Crobat hits me with a brave bird, leaving me just 1 HP left.
    Thinking my luck had changed, I finished crobat off with dragon pulse.
    Next he brings in Umbreon, I assume my dragon pulse will KO it.
    However, that did not happen. Umbreon uses pursuit, Latias faints.
    Should have recovered I think...
  17. pokemonwargeneral

    pokemonwargeneral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    @Bozo
    Alrighty! I'll try that.
    Made it to 293 streak on pokemon heart gold battle castle using:

    Lateon/Latios. rented item choice specs
    Ability: levitate
    Timid nature
    Evs: 6 HP/ 252 SP.ATK/ 252 SPEED
    Dragon pulse
    Psychic
    Ice beam
    Thunder bolt

    Stephanie/Garchomp. rented item choice band
    Ability: sand veil
    Jolly nature
    Evs: 6 HP/ 252 ATK/ 252 SPEED
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Aqua tail
    Fire fang

    Technician/Scizor. rented item lum berry
    Ability: technician
    Impish nature
    Evs: 252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 6 SP. DEF
    Bug bite
    Bullet punch
    Swords dance
    Roost

    They lost to opponent 294, Regigas(bright powder), Suicune(lum berry), Regice(shell bell) I lowered all three of their levels by 5. I sent out latios first, went for psychic but it missed and he crush gripped lati to half yellow HP. Next turn I switched in scizor, he took the crush grip on a very high green, I used swords dance, he uses stone edge, I use second swords dance, he gets a critical stone edge, I use third swords dance, he connects third stone edge bringing scizor under half yellow HP, that end turn Regi gets his act together. I go for Bug bite, but Regi out runs me and gets another critical hit knocking scizor out. Send out Garchomp and outrage him to very low yellow, crush grips her to half yellow, I use second outrage and he goes down and chomp becomes confused, they send out suicune and I retreat confused chomp out with latios, and he gets ice beamed away by suicune( He was already on yellow from crush grip). last I send out garchomp, use choice band outrage on suicune and she still takes it on a very low yellow( My God the power of a bold suicune, even 5 levels lower than choice chomp) and finishes off my stephanie with Ice beam. So yea, I know I could of won that match If I would of fought different. But It's still a great streak that I hope gets recorded. Like I said I have nintendo Dsi picture proof of the streak, and I'll try to get that posted as soon as possible here!
  18. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,458
    I initially wanted to try out Specs Latios but I was put off by Draco Meteor's 90 accuracy. Good to see that Dragon Pulse is good enough to use. Also seems like a defensive Scizor is a necessary partner to deal with Tyranitar and Weavile so good call there.

    I've surpassed my previous personal best in the Castle (which is still nothing compared to you guys') by playing more conservatively. My CP ratio is shot to hell now and I'm getting a few rounds where I lose CP. Seeing numerous OHKO users that you have to spend CP to de-level is going to be the norm, right?

    I've broken even over my last six sets with this mindset but it's a little distressing that I'm not making small CP gains gradually.
  19. Luminary

    Luminary

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    138
    I've been playing the Battle Tower for about half a year now. Rather, I should say that the Tower's been playing me. Six months of Brightpowder misses, Ice Beam freezes, and Focus Band activations does a lot for one's patience. Jumpman and Peterko must be saints by now. Still, I have experienced more pleasure than frustration in this endeavor. As such, I would like to continue.

    First, however, I need to establish how to continue by recognizing my mistakes. One of the goals with which I constructed my first team was speed, for practicality's sake. Twenty-one turns of Acupressure seems like it would take a while. Additionally, spending less time on individual streaks means that I can feasibly attempt more, allowing me to learn faster. As I go for longer streaks, I think I'll let this one slide, but it's been useful for me. After more analyzing and theorizing than I care to admit (yet still not enough), I came up with the following combination:
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Dusknoir (FRAUD) @ Choice Scarf
    Male, Bold, Pressure
    252 HP / 116 Defense / 116 Special Defense / 20 Speed
    152 / 120 / 187 / 76 / 170 / 68
    Trick / Grudge / Disable / Protect

    Scizor (FISKARS) @ Iron Plate
    Male, Adamant, Technician
    94 HP / 252 Attack / 164 Speed
    157 / 182 / 120 / 75 / 100 / 106
    Bullet Punch / Superpower / Substitute / Swords Dance

    Heatran (GOBLIN) @ Leftovers
    Female, Modest, Flash Fire
    188 HP / 252 SpAtk / 68 Speed
    190 / 99 / 126 / 200 / 126 / 106
    Flamethrower / Earth Power / Hidden Power Electric / Substitute

    Hopefully you can follow my train of thought. Trick and Grudge leave the opposing Pokemon locked into a move with no PP. In this way, Dusknoir allows Scizor three to five turns of setup. Given this time, Scizor can boost enough to threaten 95% of the Battle Tower with OHKOs. Heatran rounds out the team, taking down leads Dusknoir can't handle, and absorbing fire attacks aimed at Scizor.

    While it is unorthodox, there are advantages to such a strategy. The usefulness of Grudge is in its ability to force Struggle. Not only does this severely limit the opponent's raw offensive power, but it also allows me to set up on super-effective attacks. Swords Dancing three times on a Heatran is quite satisfying. Simply controlling the opponent's move allows me to avoid all kinds of annoyances such as stat drops and secondary status effects. This allows me to set up quickly and effectively, regardless of the opposing Pokemon.

    Despite these qualities, this team has some shortcomings. Foremost on this list is Dusknoir's speed. Even with a Choice Scarf, my paranormal radio fails to outpace the majority of Battle Tower Pokemon. When so often moving second, I risk being haxxed before Dusknoir even gets a chance to Trick. My team doesn't have a great chance of winning when robbed of Dusknoir right off the bat. Scizor's setup can also be threatened by Critical Hits; even Struggle is capable of using the Tower's trump card. Heatran has pulled me through some messes, but bringing me back from 1-3 is not something she is consistently able to do.

    I enjoyed using this team, but it failed (and I failed) to produce the streaks I was looking for. While plenty of my losses were due to stupid mistakes or hax, plenty of them happened simply because my team wasn't constructed well enough, which was disappointing.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Dusknoir (FRAUD) @ Choice Scarf
    Male, Bold, Pressure
    252 HP / 116 Defense / 116 Special Defense / 20 Speed
    152 / 120 / 187 / 76 / 173 / 65
    Trick / Grudge / Disable / Rest

    Feraligatr (CHAW) @ Salac Berry
    Male, Jolly, Torrent
    252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
    160 / 157 / 121 / 89 / 103 / 143
    Waterfall / Outrage / Substitute / Swords Dance

    Umbreon (VILYA) @ Leftovers
    Male, Impish, Synchronize, Shiny
    252 HP / 232 Defense / 36 Special Defense
    202 / 85 / 176 / 64 / 154 / 85
    Payback / Curse / Protect / Wish

    Some frustrating losses led me to rethink my team. I decided to take advantage of the relatively predictable amount of damage output from Struggle. A pinch sweeper is a good way to capitalize on opponents that often bring me to around 20% HP. Fully set up, Feraligatr only has trouble with the following 10 Pokemon: Linoone 2, Porygon-Z 2, Slowbro 2, Suicune 3, Cloyster 2, Unaware Bibarel 2, Tangrowth 1-4. Feraligatr proved more offensively impressive than Scizor.

    I was also quite happy with Umbreon. Originally intended to beat Pokemon Dusknoir couldn't handle, it ended up performing its fair share of sweeps. Critical hits happened as often as I expected them to; despite this, Umbreon's immense bulk kept it alive. Unfortunately, pitiful offensive power and an EV spread unfit for this purpose kept Vilya from being truly successful (cookie for the reference on that one).

    As you, no doubt, suspected, this team flopped quite spectacularly, never getting past 80. The "pinch berry" theory proved quite finicky and frustrating. Even considering Feraligatr's defensive prowess, he returned completely unable to function without Dusknoir. Even minor hax saddled this team with a loss. Despite how sexy it looked, Dusknoir / Feraligatr / Umbreon was not as viable as I had hoped. I took a step in the wrong direction, and it didn't pay off.

    I plan to revisit a Trick / Struggle strategy in the future. There are some faster (if frailer) Grudge users out there. My next endeavor, however, will be a standard Trick team.

    I have come to one conclusion; hax is inevitable. Of course, I've known this since I first attempted the Tower. The problem is, I haven't been implementing this knowledge to its full extent. I always knew to use Flamethrower over Fire Blast in an environment where streaks matter. What I still need to deal with is the fact that Ice Beam Freezes, Flame Body Burns, and Brightpowder misses are all inevitable, but conquerable. While that perfect combination of opposing Pokemon and hax is going to happen, I can postpone this event by taking such things into account. For example, Jumpman has found a way to incorporate accuracy increases, immunity to Critical hits, and team synergy into twelve moveslots. It's not enough that I use 100% accurate moves, I need to deal with things the opposition brings to the table as well.

    Which brings me to my current project: Lapras. A couple of critical hits followed by freezes led me to seek out a teammate immune to both. Because the Battle Tower imposes pessimism, I initially rejected the hope that one of my favourite Pokemon would be uniquely viable in the Battle Tower. Since scouting it more thoroughly, I have come to believe that Lapras is an excellent Tower 'mon, using him is certainly not a pipe dream. With the very real and consistent possibility of six Curses under its belt, Lapras literally cannot be ohko'd by any Pokemon except for the lucky few with ohko moves. Needless to say, I was pleased when I saw that another person came to the same conclusion.

    I was planning to make this post later in the summer, (after I had actually accomplished something with what is now just a team in theory) but I didn't want to miss responding to this. Lapras as a hax-"immune" Pokemon for incredibly lengthy streaks sounds fun to me.

    As for "dumb stuff that could KO this Lapras", not even Adamant Life Orb Head Smash Rampardos can do 70% to the plesiosaur on the physical side. Able to survive a Leaf Storm from Roserade (theoretically; normally you'd just Shard it for super effective damage), nothing's touching Lapras on either side of the spectrum. It is important to remember that few Tower Pokemon have stat boosting items such as Choice Specs.

    What I worry about is the offense. 8/2 Ice Shard will get rid of most sweepers, but bulky Pokemon, or those that resist Ice might give Lapras trouble. You were suggesting Avalanche over Substitute (I assume partly because that's pretty ballsy), but I was actually thinking of replacing Waterfall. I'd have to go through and figure out the exact difference, but only two Pokemon (Heatran and Empoleon) resist Ice 4x. The higher power helps out against water types, and bulkier neutral Pokemon like Cresselia. Fire types are almost a non-issue in this circumstance; Avalanche followed up by Ice Shard deals with even Intimidate Arcanine equally as well as Waterfall. Even if Avalanche isn't worth it over Waterfall, I'd have a hard time giving up my Substitute, (see the avatar) especially one that can withstand STAB attacks. What I worry about are Pokemon like Lanturn, who can take my attacks quite well, and hax me with moves like Discharge.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Latias (Flow) @ Choice Scarf
    Female, Timid, Levitate
    252 HP / 182 Defense / 76 Speed
    187 / 90 / 133 / 130 / 150 / 154
    Trick / Thunder Wave / Charm / Recover

    Drapion (Doopliss) @ Black Sludge
    Male, Careful, Battle Armor
    252 HP / 56 Defense / 196 Special Defense / 4 Speed
    177 / 110 / 137 / 72 / 132 / 116
    Crunch / Substitute / Acupressure / Rest

    Lapras (Hymn) @ Leftovers
    Male, Careful, Shell Armor
    252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Special Defense
    237 / 106 / 100 / 94 / 161 / 80
    Ice Shard / Waterfall / Curse / Substitute

    What do you think? I'm going to attempt it.
    ...right after finals, that is. :(
  20. Shoeman

    Shoeman

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Lapras is awesome and I really hope that team does well. I would personally (though I'm a bit sucky at the frontier) keep waterfall and substitute. Sub protects Lapras from status and should help it set up, ten turn freezes and seemingly endless full paralysis can happen.
  21. pokemonwargeneral

    pokemonwargeneral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    Greetings everyone! Ahhh! I hear talk of the powerful curse lapras( rivals curselax if you ask me) yes, I just bred me a cursing lapras on emerald and migrated it to platinum 2 months ago, and it's been kicking butt on Wi-Fi ever sinse! heres the one I use:

    Name: Lacurseras/Lapras-female
    Careful nature
    Ability: Shell armor( blocks computer cheating critical hits... argubly the best ability in the game, wish snorlax and cressilia had it! )
    Evs: 252 Hp/ 252 defense/ 6 Sp.Def.
    Moveset: Curse, rest, double team, avalanche
    held item usualy leftovers or chesto berry.

    Max stats at level 100 would look like this:
    Hp 464
    Atk 206
    Def 259
    Sp.Atk 185
    Sp.Def 249
    Speed 156

    High defenses eh?, I tested it's defense taking, took a soul dew 342 Sp.Atk thunder bolt from a latios on a lower yellow Hp and avalanched the airplane pokemon away OHKO! Because of lapras decent base 80 phisical defense( 3 Base levels higher than snorlax's defense) and it's Base 95 Sp.def. It can become a considerble wall. I have clones of my careful curseras( thanks to emerald), one I trained defense, the other Sp.def. the phisical defense trained version seems to fight better than the Sp.def trained, probably because it can take attacks more balanced. I like using curseras more than snorlax ever sinse all these high attack dragons came along( chomp, mence Etc.) knock all these 600 base dragons out one hit, not even choice band outrage or specs draco meteor can knock it out( not to mention the safety of no critical hits) and if chomp or mence want to play raise attack game, she got that curse. As for It's weaknesses( fighting, grass, lightning, rock) that's one thing I don't like that it dosen't have one weakness like snorlax, but thats why I give mines double team, and I realy don't even consider grass cause I down them with stab power 180 avalanche too. I'm glad too see other trainers are considering lapras for more comepetetive battling!
  22. MachampFan

    MachampFan

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    I want to post my Revenge-Battle-Tower team here
    We all know this, we got haxed out by other pokemon, which are often much worse than our.
    So i'm going to take revenge in the whole BattleTower !

    My Team is compleatly bred in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald (3 pokes, 3 Editions) and used the Mimic Glitch to get the right, killing Moves :)

    1)
    "Sheer Cold", the Machamp; Ability "No Guard" @Sash
    252HP, 252Speed; Jolly
    -Sheer Cold
    -Gastro Acid
    -Spore
    -Vacuumwave

    What should i explain here :D


    2)
    "Schildkröte", the Shuckle; @Leftovers
    252HP, 176Def, 80SpDef; Sassy
    -Toxic
    -Cosmic Power
    -Recover
    -Night Shade

    Should be clear
    Toxic to kill them, Recover not to go down, Cosmic Power too boost like a demon and
    Night Shade to mage damage
    Here i use Night Shade and not Seissmic Toss, to hit everything, so i can do sth. against all Poison types, which are immun to Toxic


    3
    "Darkrai 2.0", the.... Ninjask; @Big Root
    252 HP, 252 Speed; Timid
    -Spore
    -Dream Eater
    -Nightmare
    -Sub

    Tactic is clear, first Spore, he hits most times first, because he's faster than all, except 2, pokemon in the tower, so the opponent sleeps
    Then i go into the Sub, which guarantees me not to be hitten.
    then i finish him/her off with nightmare first and then Dream eater, with which i can heal myself a bit


    And this was my team, with which i take revenge for everyone here, who has been outhaxed or sth. like this.

    If you have other advises to me, let me hear :)
  23. Blazade

    Blazade

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    48
    Heart Gold Battle Arcade Single: 59

    I didn't really make a team especially for this as much as just use some spare pokemon to try and get the gold symbol. This is what I used

    Azelf**Alpha
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 31/30/30/31/31/31
    EVs: 252 Satk/252 Spe/4 Atk
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power (70 Ice)
    Explosion

    Salamence**AuRon
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 HP, 31 Atk and Speed
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/ 4 HP
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Dragon Claw
    Flamethrower

    Heatran**Omega
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 31/30/30/31/31/31
    EVs:252 Satk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
    Flamethrower
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power (70 Ice)
    Explosion

    Yeah, its overall an okay team which really needs items to work, but I guess heatran is fast enough and salamence strong enough when the opponent doesn't have them either. I didn't get unlucky on the game board too often; I was always able to deal with it when I did.

    The most notable battle was against Dahlia the second time. The board was 15 black squares and one red level up squares. I ended up choosing the lesser of two evils by taking an HP penalty over taking a real chance to cripple myself with one of the nine status squares on the board. My pokemon all had starf berries and out first was blaziken, which died immediately to psychic. Zapdos took half damage from hp ice before it killed azelf with tbolt. Heatran survived the next tbolt on 20-30 damage and the starf berry sharply raised speed before Zapdos died to hidden power ice. Then my now faster heatran killed togekiss with explosion.

    I lost to Tyranitar 1, flygon, and probopass 4. The panel was a useless sandstorm one. I saced the mence to deal a lot to tyranitar, then finished it of with heatran. I didn't look at the speed list and forgot flygon was faster. Should have switched to azelf, but it doesn't matter. I died to Eartquake, azelf revenge killed, but propbopass was too much for it. I didn't expect to get on the list, but now I did I don't really need to go back to the arcade. Its not that fun in my opinion.
  24. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    hey some cool posts today :)

    there's a few little tricks you can do. like if you're looking at their pokes, and you notice they're not all matching the types used by particular types of trainers (eg policeman - fighting+steel), then they must be of a trainer that uses a particular number (eg jogger - set 2). this means you only need to check the stats of one of them, and you can save on checking the others. that'll save you 4CP every time you use that trick.

    as for OHKO moves, yeah you've just gotta be prepared to spend a few points there. unless you have a flier and can be sure you can avoid fissure (eg leading with salamence against the fissure bastiodon - you can actually up its level). EDIT: gengar would be an interesting pokemon to use to wall certain OHKO moves, although it would often have a hard time dealing with the rest of the moveset lol.....

    also, i think with more practice, you get better at conserving CP. still, having pokes that can heal themselves during battle is extremely helpful. and a balance between that, and having something that can occasionally 3-0 a team in 3 moves is awesome, as you can often get very easy CP - i had a few dream teams like bastiodon + magnezone + empoleon, where i could level them all up and OHKO with CB earthquake, for 50CP.

    i loved this post, and the ideas in it. i say go for it - that team could prove quite useful. you've also managed to get around the item clause, by essentially being allowed to use leftovers on two pokes - nice one.

    the only thing i'd say is that you've forgotten there are other 4x ice resist pokes - all the water/ice ones - especially thick fat walrein which is really a 8x resist.

    haha love it!! i've been thinking of a team like this for a while, but maybe leech seed on shuckle. also planning to lead with a baton passing ninjask - not so sure how good dream eater is on him, but nightmare is an interesting idea - and then pass speed to machamp (with fake out, spore, substitute, baton pass on ninjask).
  25. MachampFan

    MachampFan

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    I play the Shuckle with NightShade against annoying Poison types to kill them in 2-4 turns.
    With LeechSeed it needs much more time.

    Maybe i should play Rest instead of Recover to get rid of Status attacks, fe. another one with toxic can kill this Shuckle easily. on the other Side it will sleep 2 turns which can be a problem in the beginning...


    DreamEater guarantees me the KO in 4 turns, maybe in 3 turns without LO/Black sludge, furthermore it helps to get health back (within the item +30%) for other subs, maybe to recover the hit of a priority attack the opponent might have.
    I rly. wanted to play with BP, but then i guess i would let him forget the Sub, else i get only 4 Subs, with a priority of an opponent before my Spore often only 2.
    When i let him forget the Sub, i'm without any Guard when opponent wakes up, and maybe have to take normal attack + Priority, which might take it down.
    But it's true, with the speedboost Machamp would be unstoppable
    (Spore-Gastr Acid-)Sheer Cold.
    But usually it takes minimum 2 pokes down, and even in a 2on2 Ninjask and Shuckle would win easily


    But well, the team isn't 100% finish, Ninjask is still to breed (even i dont need any Speed IVs (electrode with 211 speed, the next, 2nd quick scarfer 232, with whom ninjask only gets speed tie, with 0 speed + Timid it sill gets ehm, 217 (i think) which is enough, after the boost for everything), but i have to breed one with good SpA to get full in hopefully 1 turn, with the Dreameater.


    I also thought about another one:
    Ninjask
    -spore
    -perish song
    -mean look
    -baton pass

    Seems great too
    Spore to let him sleep, then the song
    mean look to hold him in the game to kill
    finally BP to maybe Machamp with the Spd Boost to sweep the other too
    Dangerous is, when the opponent sleeps not long, then Ninjask will get troubles

    What you think about?

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