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Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

Discussion in 'Smogon's Greatest Hits' started by Peterko, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Muaziz

    Muaziz

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    I got a 140 strike (and still undefeated) at HGSS Battle tower using:

    Flygon (Hax Eater) @ Choice Scarf
    Adamant / Levitate
    4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
    -U-turn
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge

    Scizor (Red Bullet) @ Choice Band
    Adamant / Technician
    248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Speed
    -U-turn
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower
    -Pursuit
    (I was thinking on switching pursuit for return or quick attack, but i use it for wifi battles too)

    Starmie (Death Star) @ Choice Specs
    Timid / Natural Cure
    4 HP/ 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    -Trick
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt

    My strategy, although carrying a tricker is not the trick standard strategy (as you can see, i don't have any stat upper). I just play full off and use trick for double teamers, annoyers or slow pokes that try to boost themselves.

    When teambuilding this i thought "well, flygon and scizor are good resistance partners so they may be just good here too. Also, u-turn is a nice move here, you get to do damage and switch to a resistant poke, and predicting is pretty much easier than in wi-fi. So i need an special attacker." I first threw a vaporeon in and got a 75 strike the first time. Vaporeon healed scizor and defeated most bulky pokes with toxic/wish/protect/surf, but then i came to the machamp problem once again, so i thought on starmie and its resistance to fighting (and higher attacking power). I tried it and i got really better results.

    I haven't had any serious problems on this strike really. This same team went defeated on battle 91 twice (both times on 91...) before i reached my only (and actual) 100+ strike. Both times i fought a Machamp, the first one it activated it's quick claw and ice punched flygon to death, i misclicked and got scizor out instead of starmie and then on the switch he got a crit with d-punch. I hit myself in my confusion and it was all over, i bullet punched and he procceded to fire punch me this time to death. The second time, started the same, with a quick clawed ice punch to flygon's face. Then Starmie (i clicked right this time :P) got out and surfed machamp, going to red with a critical d-punch again and killing machamp the second turn. Then a purugly killed starmie with fake out. I killed him with bullet punch, but then a charizard appeared in front of me and made me to say goodbye with flamethrower.

    After those two failures, i thought on switching ice beam, surf or t-bolt for psychic, but those attacks are just too useful, while psychic would give me SE coverage on a type i got enough neutral hits.
  2. Hutch3

    Hutch3

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    Just wondering if anyone has tried a wish team with any success in the battle tower? I was thinking about doing one but I wasn't sure how useful it would really be seeing as how we only use 3 pokemon?
  3. Nida

    Nida

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    135
    I got my gold print in Pearl with a Gen 3 team from LeafGreen consisting of lead DDNite, Expert Belt Starmie, and tanky Wish/Protect Vaporeon. Which is shocking, considering how poor the synergy is. Vaporeon makes a great cleric and pivot.
  4. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    300
    Muaziz, you could run Aerial Ace over Pursuit on Scizor. That would help take out fighting types (and annoying evasion Pokes). It gets a Technician boost too, which is always nice. If you have a bunch of copies of the TM, you could just use the Aerial Ace TM whenever you're in the Frontier, and use a Heart Scale to teach Scizor Pursuit again before going into wifi.
  5. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    300
    I'm hard pressed to imagine Wish having much use, other than healing the Pokemon that uses it. If you need to use Wish, you generally don't have the time to do all of the necessary switching before whatever Pokemon you're up against messes up your team. Blissey, Umbreon, and Vaporeon could all use Wish fairly effectively to heal themselves, but whatever you're switching to probably won't like getting hit on the turn it comes in (particularly if it's at half health or less). I guess you could switch in sweepers resistant or immune to Fighting (in Blissey/Umbreon's case) or Electric/Grass in Vaporeon's case, but that requires your Wish user to take a super effective hit on the turn it uses Wish. It just doesn't seem all that effective to me.

    Edit: Sorry for double posting!
  6. Muaziz

    Muaziz

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    @VaporeonIce: Thx for the suggestion, i will try it, as i have a bunch of Aerial ace TMs (and thinking of breeding a RNG Scizor for wifi :P)

    @Hutch3: I tried with wish vaporeon in the team i just posted in the place of starmie. It doesn't work as i expected. OHKOs, criticals, secondary effects and double teamers are usually the main problems, and wish doesn't help too much with that. It's useful from time to time, but i've gotten better results with a sweeper than a wisher. A wish bliss could help when facing a special sweeper, but anyway, you need a way to kill mons and get rid of annoyers/double teamers, and you're usually better killing/revengekilling the opponent than trying to heal your team
  7. Cl0wn

    Cl0wn

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    Must say totally like your team dude. I was thinking of breeding me a Flygon too, because of the nice sycs with Scizor, Prolly going to finish a flygon soon =) with SS! I must say I really like AA on my Scizor for them Bug / Fighting / DT pokes, works like a charm. (also works perfect on Flying / Fire if you manage to outspeed xD.)
  8. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    update after 2 months, sorry guys

    as always, report any mistakes in the lists here

    the VGC fever caught me and this year, I actually went to a qualifier - in Cologne (last year I was prepared to go to Berlin but didn´t in the end)...

    I haven´t posted a warstory yet and probably won´t do it anymore (although I used one pokémon no player used so far in the VGC - at least from all the warstories I read), beat Froggy (who won Lyon a week later) in R32, but lost in round of 16 to a really bad match-up (groudon+eggy,pal,aboma) and I misplayed...whatever, the whole thing was a wonderful experience (and worth the 31 hour total bus ride lol)


    EDIT: if anyone cares, my team was:
    - scarf kyogre (spout, bliz, thunder, AP)
    - sash medicham (FO, LK, Psycho Cut, Detect) - I erased ice punch in the morning while standing in line for 5hrs, go figure ._.
    - haban palkia (rend, protect, earth power, thunder)
    - lefties blis (toxic, protect, softboiled, shadow ball) - lol don´t ask me why s-ball (ice beam/thrower are superior), I couldn´t hit frame 2391 in eme for hell´s sake and had to breed one in diamond



    I think I will get back to the frontier soon...I bred 3 perfect gibles this week :/
  9. Cl0wn

    Cl0wn

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    or just clone your scizor? (sort of legal if you want more then one moveset =/ )
  10. Cl0wn

    Cl0wn

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    Hmmm about Berlin last year....i lived there for 1,5 year and heared about it, but i didnt go, stupid me
  11. pokemonwargeneral

    pokemonwargeneral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    @Muaziz
    WOW! A complete Choice Item team! nice team and impressive streak dude! Speaking of battle tower streaks, I hit 104 streak on Heart gold yesterday using a trick team, Cressilia, Steelix, and Tyranitar. I just wanted to bump my trainer card rank to 3 stars. they fought good but lost against a brightpowder gallade(who used it 2 times in a row) and a heatran that connected a lot of low accuracy magma storms. don't worry I'll be back to reach even higher streak later!
  12. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,768

    also, to be honest and as modest as possible knowing that i'm the one with the record, i honestly think that he would be hard-pressed to break 2,000 wins with such a mimic glitch abuse team without actually soliciting advice here first. in this regard it can be fun and interesting to talk about it here, because he knows full well that he's not going to get the "recognition" that you reference (and also knows that it was you who first posted the idea of revenging the AI with hacked teams and "you weren't 'reprimanded'"). it could be fun to try an arrive at the most foolproof team that's possible when utilizing the mimic glitch, the same "fun" that people play the frontier for in the first place.


    sorry about your loss. i will say, as i've said before, that i'm confused as to why people change things on my teams. when i saw your first change and then read that you lost, i kind of guessed that "if he had used the team without any modifications, he probably would not have lost this specific battle he's about to recount". and sure enough, it is very fair to say that if you had used lum berry instead of sash, you would not have lost, since you would have switched in on a freezing IB that would have been taken care of by lum berry. only if a subsequent signal beam had confused tyranitar and it had hit itself in confusion multiple times would you still have lost, otherwise you sweep the psychic trainer you're playing rather easily.

    sash on dd tyranitar, especially that one, is a bad idea, because only fighting pokemon can ohko tyranitar and +1 EQ (your best option) is probably not going to ohko anything outside of lucario, infernape and blaziken, all pokemon who are straight up murdered by both garchomp and starmie (even though starmie can't hit luke for SE it will rarely lose heads-up to any one). so given that tyranitar will almost never have its sash intact since it has to switch into some kind of damaging move all the time and that almost nothing ohkos but fighting moves or strong stab EQs and wood hammers, sash is largely pointless. if you're in a position where you are even able to DD on a pokemon that would otherwise ohko tyranitar, you're in a pretty bad spot and probably won't win anyway since starmie and garchomp would have to be dead. even if strategically you could DD on a last-poke infernape instead of sending in a weakened starmie/chomp that would die to CC or EQ or whatever you would win if you kept tyra in regardless of whether it has a sash.

    Thanks for trying out Lapras and the team idea I suggested. I do see now that Lapras is not going to have too much fun with Lanturn and pokemon like opposing Lapras even with Sub. A +6 Avalanche (over Sub) on Lanturn does 78-92%, more than enough to enable Ice Shard to kill afterwards, but the biggest problem with using this team, Sub or no Sub, is of course the OHKO issue. Besides the fact that a naked, -6 Lapras is susceptible to all kinds of OHKOs (if I were still making the argument that Avalanche is better than Sub), even a Subbed Lapras will have a tough time with horn drill dewgong and lapras. Water Absorb pokemon and ohko pokemon seem to suck for this idea...

    For this battle, it may have been possible for you to Charm depending on Hyper Cutter, and at least you are told which ability Pinsir has before you have to make a move. For Hyper Cutter I would probably Thunderwave and give Lapras a chance to set up on it, and for Mold Breaker I'd probably go ahead and Charm and give Drapion a Change to stall it out of Guillotines because Drapion is faster and it doesn't always use EQ (and if it does, then going back to Latias isn't a bad idea). If it is going to hit with its first three Guillotines then it'll be tricky for Drapion/Lapras to beat it, which is why I love Garchomp as my third on my current trick team (which plays very similar to this idea).

    A thought that crossed my mind when thinking of a way to deal with Lapras, Lanturn and other Water Absorb and OHKO idiots is Specs Grass Knot. Only Modest Latios can reliably OHKO Lapras (99% min) but it may be worth it on something like a Psychic/TB/GK/Trick lead. I say Psychic because a lead Heracross would be an asshole since you don't have Charm and Drapion/Lapras will hate Megahorn (Specs DP only does 71-84%). DP is only better than Psychic against Dragon types, which Lapras owns, Psychics, which Drapion owns, Dark Types, which Drapion owns, and hybrids like Starmie, Slowbro and Claydol which are all actually going to draw Ice attacks or Signal Beam) that either Lapras totally owns or neither Lapras nor Drapion particularly care about even when the foe has Specs, which is all besides the fact that Specs Grass Knot does a shitload to all of them.

    Even though TB does more, it may not actually be necessary because the only pokemon it hits harder than GK would outside of weight considerations that I wouldn't use Psychic on (95 BP on the Water Psychic trio) are Flying types that don't particularly bug Latios/Drapion/Lapras. Sure, Air Slash sucks ass (Specs Psychic OHKOs Yanmega btw, which is almost reason enough to use a team like this since lead Yanmega is such a bitch to traditional Trick teams) but basically everything that can use it is easily 2HKOed by Specs Latios at worst. The main caveat is of course giving Special attackers Choice Specs, especially lead Dragons (which may warrant Dragon Pulse by themselves lol), but the idea may still be worth a shot. I may actually try it in the Battle Castle, where Lead Specs Modest Latios can actually get a lot of utility out of Choice Specs and would only Trick if absolutely necessary like on stuff like Skarmory or Cradily or Blissey or stuff that's annoying as hell. For the Tower, it also occurred to me that Shedinja can handle most of the Water Absorb and OHKO threats, but without proper setup time or them being locked into anything it's probably not too viable (though I bet there's tons of Fisherman who can't hit Sheddy for SE with 12 moves, lol) for the Tower even with Drapion and both Lapras and Drapion being careful and having major HP and SpD investments.

    I've thought about it as it would allow Lapras to use a WF/EQ or Return/Sub/DD set without too much of a problem, but being able to boost your Defense impenetrably and with a STAB priority move is more appealing initially

    Haha, awesome! I used this team almost exactly on an emulator last year when I was bored and wanted to use a Choice/Choice/Choice team, only things I had different were Psychic on Starmie, Fire Punch on Flygon over Stone Edge and X-Scissor on Scizor (also Flygon had the CB and Scizor has the Scarf). It has pretty remarkable syngery...I don't know if you noticed it's an all-Choice team because I don't think you mentioned it and you had Wish Vappy at first. The team has to be used very carefully though...you may have been able to win the first battle you lost if you had used U-Turn on Machamp from the misclicked Scizor as it would have put Machamp in Surf's kill range (even though you'd still need high damage rolls, which is why idk about Trick on that Starmie since Psychic does 110% min). Second battle is a great example of how thinking ahead can make a team like this a big winner...if you'd switched in Scizor on Purugly you could have killed it and had your low-health Starmie OHKO last-poke Charizard for the 1-0. that said, i dont know what trainer can use machamp 3, purugly 2 and charizard 1, and you definitely misremembered something on the first battle because neither Machamp have both Fire Punch and Ice Punch...
  13. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    Thanks for the update, Peterko. Feels good to be sitting back in my #9 spot again xD

    It's been a while since I've posted in here too, mostly because I've been toying with some crazy stuff in the BT. You guys are going to love this.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Starmie/Shuckle/Garchomp Team Specifics (open)
    This team was so much fun to use.

    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Hp / 96 Def / 160 SpD
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    Ability: Natural Cure
    -Trick
    -Flash
    -Thunder Wave
    -Skill Swap

    Simple TrickScarf setup. Skill Swap was only chosen since Starmie can't learn Safeguard :/

    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    Ability: Sturdy
    -Rock Slide
    -Earthquake
    -Substitute
    -Accupressure

    This thing is beastly, lol. It's slow as hell, but once you set it up, it's almost invincible. The only thing that could actually harm it were crits from super-effective moves. Beating anything with it takes forever, but it works eventually.

    Garchomp @ Lum Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    IVs: 31/31/31/7/31/31
    Ability: Sand Veil
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Substitute
    -Swords Dance

    And the standard BT Garchomp to finish.

    The team eventually got to 184 wins, which shocked me completely. I lost because of an opposing Starmie. It critted Shuckle with Hydro Pump, barely survived a +6 Rock Slide, and then KO'ed with another crit Hydro Pump. Garchomp died to Blizzard without doing anything.


    I'm back to being serious about this now, using my Latias/Drapion/Scizor team. Just passed 100 wins, hoping for at least 300 this time.
  14. Blazade

    Blazade

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    48
    Heart Gold Battle Castle Single: 71 wins, 118 CP remaining

    Sorry to post this post-update.

    On my quest for a castle gold print, I used some pkmn that I used to get other gold symbols, but I felt like having some more fun, so I brought in one of my favorite pkmn as a lead.

    Blaziken**BLAZIKEN
    Adamant@Salac berry/Liechi berry/Wide lens
    IVs 31 atk and speed
    EVs 252 spe/100 atk/156 sp atk
    Overheat
    Reversal
    Endure
    Thunderpunch

    Salamence**AuRon
    Adamant @ Choice band
    IVs 30 HP, 31 atk and spe
    EVs 252 atk/252 spe/4 HP
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Dragon Claw
    Flamethrower

    Heatran**Omega
    Naive @ Choice Scarf
    IVs 31/30/30/31/31/31
    Flamethrower
    Earth power
    Hidden power (70 Ice)
    Explosion

    While the perfect resistance match up of Heatran and salamence was pretty great, Blaziken made the team. My strategy above battle 21 was to check the opponents team, and if necessary check the set with the summary. In the first battle out of 7, I would intentionally sacrifice my blaziken, then in the rest, proceed to sweep with either a blaze boosted overheat or a 200 power reversal, both of which have STAB. Should blaziken bite the dust, the rest of the team is more than capable of revenge killing. There were so many satisfying 3-0 sweeps during the streak which bought me a fair amount of cp.

    Darach the second time was annoying because I got seriously haxed. I killed the lead gallade with reversal, but the empoleon that followed quick clawed on me, hitting with blizzard. I sent in salamence, not believing that could be haxed that much. But a second quick clawed blizzard hit and I was mad. Heatran used earth power (naturally) and got a crit on empoleon, and while Entei had a shuca berry, all it did was calm mind until it was too late.

    I lost because I faced a team of Alakazam (which died to reversal) Cresselia 2, and slowbro 3. It was just too bulky to deal with. Blaziken missed with overheat against cresselia before dying, shooting down my plans to finish it off with explosion. I explosioned anyway, hoping to kill it with outrage. After a lot of moonlights, double teams and psychics, I was left with A 67% salamence who had snapped out of confusion against a slowbro. I thought outrage was enough and didn't calculate the damage before the battle, but it didn't OHKO it and my streak ended on a specsed psychic.

    But hey, top 10 is pretty cool, and once I perfect emerald rng, it will be time to march to the Battle tower to get my final star, and hopefully a place on that list.
  15. 7014gree

    7014gree

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    914
    The focus sash helped me out a few times, like when there was miss hax with rock slide or when it was 2v1 on Tyranitar, but I guess I was quite lucky to get past 100
    Im never going back there lol...
  16. Muaziz

    Muaziz

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    I'm sure i misremembered something, after like 300-400 battles i can't remember exactly how i lost, although it was something pretty much similar for sure :P (maybe i ended killing the machamp and another poke killed me)

    I saw it was a full choice team, i liked the idea of having the 3 different choiced items, specially with 2 u-turners and the third poke with trick, it overrides quite well the choice "problem". It's also really hard to do well with it, you have to know well every speed and attack you can receive. I ended my strike in battle 143 (with 142 wins). I used u-turn first turn against an ambipom. I thought it would use fake out, and as it didn't use it, i thought it would go for the double hit, so i switched to Scizor, but an ice punch froze him U.U The U-turn went critical, though, and left a LO ambipom in the red hp bar. I went to starmie to take a more than possible fire punch (and guessed right) and the ambipom died to the recoil. I tricked the specs to the incoming swampert, waiting for a curser or something, but then he used EQ and ohkoed starmie with a critical EQ (...). I killed him with flygon using EQ, and then exploud came out. Thinking of an ice attack i switched to Scizor, who received the ice beam, but didn't manage to thaw for the bullet punch and died to an overheat, activating the white herb and restoring the spatk. Unluckily, Outrage was not, by far, an OHKO, so the last ice beam killed me U.U

    What i most like about the team is that you MUST think every movement you do. It's not some kind of 90% effective strategy like the trick one and does require skill and a bit of luck, and that's the way i like to play the battle tower :P

    On flygon, fire punch is only better than eq for skarmory/bronzong (with skarmory i won't be doing really much either and bronzong will gyroball/psychic me to death before i manage something important) and scizor/Forretress, which are way better handled by starmie, ohkoing both. I also had a fire punch flygon before, but stone edge has proven useful to not be locked into outrage from time to time. Scizor usually gets the KOs it needs with u-turn, and allows me to chose a new attack for the new poke. And the Cress of the battle tower tycoon really HATES me u-turning with flygon and scizor xd.

    Anyways, thanks everyone for the comments, atm i'm thinking in a new team and will try the Plat BT with this same team but with AA > Pursuit. 81 is my record-to-be-beaten there with this team :P
  17. Gertle627

    Gertle627

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    As promised, I'm here with a pic and info on my team now that I lost.

    Diamond single BT - 242 wins

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @ choice scarf
    IVs: 8-9 / 30-31 / 20-21 / 18-19 / 16-17 / 14-15
    EVs: 25 2HP / 252 Spd / 4 SpD
    Nature: bold
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Reflect
    - Flash

    Pretty much copied & pasted from Jump. I didn't find myself using reflect very often.

    Salamence @ lum berry
    IVs: 23 / 31 / 13 / 30 / 24 / 10
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature: adamant
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance
    - Substitute

    Really would've liked more opprotunities to switch this in (since I usually only need a few turns of set-up rather than the 10-11 it takes Registeel, counting 1 broken sub) but Cresselia just doesn't get the wanted fighting or ground moves thrown at it.

    Registeel @ leftovers
    IVs: 20-21 / 25 / 13 / 1 / 8 / 31
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Nature: sassy
    - Iron Head
    - Curse
    - Substitue
    - Amnesia

    Registeel & Mence work so well together, covering each others' weaknesses. It was always easy to find switch and set up. I didn't run into too many OHKO users, but things like T-wave Jolteon were more of an annoyance.

    My final downfall came (sorry I didn't check the trainer name) when I was against a Suicune. I tricked its Surf, then paralyzed it. I Flashed until it KO'ed me and Registeel was easily able to fully setup. I started to chip away at its HP, with IH, had gotten close to halfway when my opponent switched to Heatran. Of course the first Flamethrower broke my sub & the next one burned me before I could set it back up. I was finally able to KO Heatran with weakened Iron Heads, and then Suicune came back out and started used the last of its Surfs, before struggling itself to death at the same time the burn took Registeel away from me. So I was left with Salamence one on one with Articuno. I sub'ed, hoping I'd get a free turn, but the subsequent Ice Beam took me down when my Outrage only did ~70%.
  18. Bozo

    Bozo

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,837
    just let the guy have some fun. he's not the only one who's used the mimic glitch just for kicks. it's not to say he's better than anyone, and like jump said, it's unlikely that any team designed like that can be better than the main tried-and-true trick teams.

    well i'll have to read all these recent posts when i have more time, but:

    dammit, i now have something to add:

    Battle Castle - 1001 wins

    Picture to come, but here's the video:

    video

    the team was the same as i used on my previous records.

    well, i'm happy to have gotten to 1000, but relieved because it was mainly a matter of making sure i didn't do anything stupid like i did to end the previous two streaks.

    will maybe post more info when i have time.....
  19. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,120
    Wow, Bozo, that's impressive. Congrats on the 1001 streak.

    Also, EonADS, that is great. Nowhere near as awesome as my SwitchBok team, but I like it.
  20. LinIsKorean

    LinIsKorean

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    372
    Working on finally beating the Elite Four in my HG and looking to start the Battle Factory once I do. :]
  21. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,120
    Lin, you're in for some fun. Wanna know what my highest Battle Factory streak, after three or four months of fairly solid playing? 20.

    (almost) Nothing to do with skill, just absurd luck and the AI ruthlessly handpicking its teams to beat you. If you have so much as a minor type weakness, the AI will have an entire team of that type trying to kill you.

    My most deserved win was almost undone by absurd hax on behalf of a Kangaskhan. It was their last Pokemon, it had KOed my Claydol with Ice Punch, so I knew this set couldn't kill my Miltank, as it lacked a Fighting-type move (It had the elemental punches and IIRC some random Normal move.).

    These are rough calcs of what happened. My attacks are on the left.
    Dizzy Punch - 75%, Fire Punch - 90%
    Dizzy Punch - 45%, Fire Punch crit, burn - 60%
    Dizzy Punch - 30% confuse, Fire Punch crit - 25%
    Dizzy Punch - 15%, Fire Punch - <5%
    Dizzy Punch - <5%, Kanga hits itself for the kill.

    So, a burn and a crit on the same hit, followed up by another crit, and I only won thanks to confuse hax. That's the Battle Factory for you.
  22. Luminary

    Luminary

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    138
    I'm trying to link my posts in this thread together both for my own convenience and for those interested. So, here's my last two posts, the first and second.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Latias / Drapion / Lapras team specifics. (open)
    Latias (Flow) @ Choice Scarf
    Female, Timid, Levitate
    252 HP / 182 Defense / 76 Speed
    187 / 90 / 133 / 130 / 150 / 154
    Trick / Thunder Wave / Charm / Recover

    Drapion (Doopliss) @ Black Sludge
    Male, Careful, Battle Armor
    252 HP / 56 Defense / 196 Special Defense / 4 Speed
    177 / 110 / 137 / 72 / 132 / 116
    Crunch / Substitute / Acupressure / Rest

    Lapras (Hymn) @ Leftovers
    Male, Careful, Shell Armor
    252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Special Defense
    237 / 106 / 100 / 94 / 161 / 80
    Ice Shard / Waterfall / Curse / Substitute


    Ho-hum, another disappointing loss in the Battle Tower, this time at 71. Battle Girl Eve led with 934 Heatran 3, and finished me off with 843 Machamp 4 before I could even see her third Pokemon. She issued her challenge in the form of, "wanna?" which is kind of hilarious. I saved the battle video and uploaded it: 69-36127-33560. But here's my summary of the battle. I locked Heatran into Dragon Pulse, and paralyzed him before Latias fainted.

    I went to Drapion next, and I'm not sure if I made a mistake there. If I had gone to Lapras, I would have been able to accumulate around four Curses (depending on min/max damage and the possibility of full paralysis), and a Substitute. After KOing Heatran with Waterfall, my Substitute would be intact and I would have around 20% of my HP left. This would not have been enough to sweep in this particular instance; she had a Machamp and Hariyama waiting in the wings. I decided to place my bets on Drapion, knowing that when only half set up, Lapras' chances against a Battle Girl are quite slim. Sorry, pal.

    So, I send Drapion out and formulate a plan of action. When I account for Black Sludge gains, Heatran cannot 3HKO me with the Dragon Pulse I locked him into. Rest allows me to stall out this kinds of hits, accumulating some Acupressure boosts initially, on turns when full paralysis kicks in, and when Heatran starts using Struggle. Special Defense and Evasion boosts allow me even more opportunities to stat up, so I had hoped I'd be able to pull it off. I got a couple of nice boosts, but evasion and Special Defense came too late to matter. Despite misclicking once, I felt that the boosts I gained would at least allow me to continue gaining boosts on the next Pokemon.

    I next faced Machamp, who unfortunately always carries Earthquake. My mind left me at this point, and I used Substitute, thinking I could make Machamp miss (I had 6/2 evasion). Obviously, this guy was No Guard, as he hit me every time he tried. Still, I would have been able to Rest-stall out his Earthquake PP, had he held an item aside from Quick Claw. In keeping with tradition, it activated right when it needed to, and hit KO'd Drapion before he could Rest up again. Lapras came in, and I got 2hko'd by Cross Chop. "Heh."

    The course of action I took wasn't even the right one to take assuming Guts. (I should have just attacked, 8/2 Crunch can 2hko.) Naturally, I'm disappointed, but I'd rather lose to human error than to the inefficiency of my team. This silver lining stuff is necessary when one sinks as much time into the tower as we do.

    I was actually investigated switching Waterfall for Return. Waterfall can beat Lairon 2, Probopass 4, Aggron 1, and Bastiodon 3 where Return can't. Return can beat Lanturn 1, 3, 4, and Lapras 2 and 4 where Waterfall can't. Accounting for my own human error, (I probably missed a bunch) and basing my decision on this cross-section, I don't gain any significant advantage by switching to Return. Sticking with Waterfall gives me better coverage and more power.

    I've considered Shedinja before, and he's definitely on "my list," if only for fun. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's disappointed with the lack of Trick leads that Synergize with Sheddy. I wanted to try him with a Porygon-Z leads, one of the few Trick users not Psychic or Ghost type. He can get some nice KOs in the tower, while keeping the ability to lock the opponent into a move. I really like the idea of a sweeper lead who remains able to Trick off Specs or a Scarf, which brings me to your suggestion.

    Specs Latios would be quite a radical departure from the current modus operandi, but as I said above, I like the idea. (Not to mention the my less objective reasoning, "Latios is awesomer than Latias.") I keep the "free wins" against stuff like Shuckle and Blissey, but gain another check against troublesome mons. It might also speed up my streaks. Still, losing Charm and Thunder Wave make it much harder to fully set up Drapion. I'll no longer be able to "extend" the PP of opposing Pokemon with Paralyze status, nor grant Drapion free setups against physical 'mons.

    Stuff like the Heatran that just beat me would hand me an automatic loss, since Thunderbolt can't 2hko, and nothing can set up on a Specs Dragon Pulse. If Thunderbolt is as unecessary as you say, I might recommend replacing it with Surf just for this reason. Regardless, I'm at least curious to try this new strategy, if only because the consequential nickname (Dr. Paul) has presented itself to me. Funny stuff.


    Lapras really loses the ability to set up on a lot of stuff if it opts for Dragon Dance. Not just physical Pokes, but the special stuff that you otherwise wall with max/max Careful. Suddenly, Latias/Latios Dragon weakness isn't looking so fun, which undermines part of what makes Lapras useful. His ability to defensively boost while avoiding critical hits is only useful on a set that's actually able to defensively boost. Even when you do manage to get set up, I don't know if base 85 Attack is enough. To put it into perspective, a Lapras with six turns of Dragon Dances does less damage than a Bullet Punch Scizor with three turns of Swords Dances. Being freeze immune just isn't worth it anymore.

    I didn't even have a chance to Charm, though I'll remember that for the future.
  23. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,120
    Right, I'm SRing an event Jirachi. What sort of Pokemon get good synergy with Jirachi? Would a SubCM Latios (I can't get Latias) be effective? What else?

    Also, I saw that video, Luminary. Sucks, doesn't it?
  24. EonADS

    EonADS

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    490
    ^Jirachi can't even be used in the Battle Frontier. If that's your idea, it won't work.
  25. ungulateman

    ungulateman

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,120
    Wow, I completely forgot about that. Silly me.

    So what TrickScarfer works best with Scizor and either Tyranitar or Snorlax? I can't get Latias, but any legend in Platinum or SS is theoretically findable for me.

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