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Roserade - BW2 Revamp [QC 3/3][GP 2/2] (See Post #51 for details)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Arcticblast, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Overview
    Change this to Tornadus-T, since that's really the only obstacle

    Defensive
    Remove this, since it doesn't have Armoatherapy in its moveset
    This is not really true anymore with the ubiquity of Tornadus-T in these Volt-Turn chains
    I think this falls under speed creeping. You would either want to increase its Spe EVs to outrun Jolly Scizor & Modest Heatran or enough Speed to outrun Adamant Scizor.
    Landorus-T may be a better partner, as it can provide a nice defensive core; Roserade covers special threats while Landorus-T covers physical threats. Landorus-T can set up Rocks while Roserade supplies Spikes / TSpikes.
    Many Tornadus-T pack Superpower, so Tyranitar is a shaky check. Jirachi or Heatran are better suggestions.

    ~ AC mention Sludge Bomb and HP Ice to nail Thundurus-T, Magic Bouncers, and / or Flying-types that are unaffected by Spikes.
    ~ Explain how the defensive EVs allow it to survive CB Scizor's Bullet Punch and to tank Keldeo's Secret Sword more comfortably

    Offensive
    ~ AC mention Leech Seed to cripple Chansey / Blissey
    ~ AC mention Giga Drain as its second Grass move on the fourth slot when it wants to finish off something without the special drop of Leaf Storm.
    ~ AC mention Magnezone support for Roserade lacking HP Fire
    ~ AC mention Dugtrio or any other mon that can exploit Heatran's switch-in. Such Pokemon include Terrakion, Keldeo, or Dragonite, etc
    Mention that the loss in power is sorely missed, and it relegates Roserade in the Lead spot, which may not be desirable.

    Checks & Counters
    ~ Add strong priority of Scizor, Mamoswine, and Abomasnow
    ~ Dragonite, Latias, Latios, Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Gengar can set up on defensive Roserade
    ~ Jirachi can easily switch into Roserade and set up CMs or pass Wishes.
    ~ Chansey and Blissey walls Offensive Roserade
    ~ Ninetales, Volcarona, Chandelure, and other Fire-types can threaten it, not just Heatran
    ~ Ferrothorn in the Rain can set up Spikes on Roserade
  2. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    Added the above changes.

    I haven't had a chance to test Choice Scarf or Choice Specs (trying to get out of a battling slump). Should they remain in OO or should one or the other (or both) get their own set?
  3. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Choice Roserade? Not on my watch.

    Feel free to mention Choice Scarf in OO, since Roserade has the benefit of freely switching into paralyzing moves and recovering while having a fast Sleep Powder. Roserade, however, is burdened by its inability to outrun several prominent +1 or Choice Scarved threats, in addition to generally lacking powerful coverage. Choiced Grass-type Pokemon are relatively "not good" (notice I didn't say bad, since Celebi is "somewhat" of an exception) overall, and if you want Roserade to hit harder, use Life Orb for that, since it will greatly appreciate the ability to actually switch moves AND use Sleep Powder in desperate circumstances.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, basically what AccidentalGreed said. There are better scarfers out there, and I'd rather use LO > Specs Roserade any day. Dump Choice sets under OO.

    Thanks for implementing the changes expeditiously, Arcticblast!
    You mean HP Fire

    Also elaborate on the OO moves. I would remove Shadow Ball, since it's use is essentially limited to hitting Gengar super-effectively and otherwise provide poor coverage. Explain that Extrasensory is nice for nailing Tentacruel that tries to absorb TSpikes (as well as hitting Gengar). Elaborate that Weather Ball is useful on weather teams. Rain essentially provides a 3rd STAB that allows Roserade to hit Fire-types and most Steel-types for heavy damage. Hail provides an Ice-type Weather Ball, which provides amazing coverage in conjunction with HP Fire. However, it does multiply the Fire weakness of Hail teams. Sun provides a Fire-type Weather Ball, but then you're better off using Chlorophyll Sweepers. Sand provides Rock-type Weather Ball which provides some useful neutral coverage, so it may actually be useful, just like Water-type Weather Ball in the Rain.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Arcticblast, for your OO description on Weather Ball, please mention that readers are usually better off using a Chlorophyll Sweeper like Venusaur, Victreebel, or Lilligant over Rosderade, although gaining a 150 fire move is cool.

    Also in your Extrasensory description, please add that it's particularly nice when using Toxic Spikes, because it lets Roserade remove Tentacruel, who would otherwise absorb TSpikes.

    Everything else looks awesome. Good Job!

    QC Approved (1/3)
  6. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    yeah this looks good

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  7. yee

    yee
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    QC Approved 3/3

    Not good in this OU-Uber mix we call OU right now but in actual OU this is good.
  8. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    No, this isn't done yet. I'm still working on it.

    BUT.

    Technician Roselia has been released. Before I finish this and open it up to GP, should I test an offensive Technician set with Spikes? Or should I stick it in OO and continue?
  9. PDC

    PDC soon as your start sleeping catching you offguard
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    Technician is not going to be serving Roserade any better than it's much superior ability Natural Cure. Not worth it as it really has no additional uses. Natural Cure should be the feature ability on every set, not sure what Technician would accomplish.

    Keep it in OO outside of a more lead based set.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Technician provides Roserade with a 90 BP HP Fire, as well as with a 90 BP Grass move (Magical Leaf) or a move that hits for 80-120 BP every target that matters, except from Rotom-W (Grass Knot). Just something to think about...
  11. Lavos Spawn

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    This is true...

    ...but this is correct. As PDC says, keep it in OO. Technician is fine, but Natural Cure is much better overall.
  12. Pocket

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    Is it true that Sleep Powder is now compatible with Spikes?

    EDIT: k nvm; thanks, Wild Eep ;x
  13. Wild Eep

    Wild Eep pet pet pet
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    That is false.
  14. NixHex

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    Base 90 HP Fire isn't exactly optimal when you tweak the IVs. Check this article about Technician Hidden Powers written by Toothache; if you want base 60 HP Fire, you have to lower multiple IVs. 59 is as close as you're getting without lowering Speed but you have to decrease Special Attack significantly. Choose your poison from the two:

    Fire

    59 Power (x 1.5 = 88)
    31/30/31/28/31/30
    31/31/30/28/31/30
    30/30/31/28/31/30
    30/31/30/28/31/30
    60 Power
    29/28/29/30/31/28
    29/29/28/30/31/28
    28/28/29/30/31/28
    28/29/28/30/31/28

    Obviously you get more power but you're also lowering your Speed and Defenses by 2 points.
  15. superbadd

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    Do the IV's make that big of a difference? If roserade opts for HP fire, she's gonna lose to max speed base 90's anyway. The only thing it has to outspeed is max speed rotom-w or speed tie with oppsoing base 90 pokemon. But those are already uncommon as it is. I don't see the harm in lowering it one or even 3 more point(s). Also, roserade has awful defense, and the only time roserade would use technician is on offensive sets and those don't require her to be bulky, just powerful.
  16. Agonist

    Agonist You were my last great war, you were my heaven ablaze
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    If you're running 30 Spe, then at least you have the chance to tie with other base 90's running a 30 IV. If you do 28 Spe (or 29) then you're throwing that out the window for a minuscule amount of extra power.
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    232 Speed EVs with a 30 Speed IV outruns neutral base 100s.
  18. Agonist

    Agonist You were my last great war, you were my heaven ablaze
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    I meant +Spe base 90's.
  19. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    The only common base 90+ in OU is Deoxys-D (Lucario usually runs Adamant), so it's mostly irrelevant. That said, I would opt for the base 59 Hidden Power as well to conserve EVs and defenses.
  20. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    This is ready for GP checks.
  21. cbt

    cbt voodoo mon amour
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    Show Hide


    Amateur check
  22. sirndpt

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    to both: just note that pokéconventions such as Grass / Poison and xHKOed should be written exactly like that, and take note of the difference between KOs/KOes (both are correct but mean different things -- KOs is the plural noun while KOes is a verb for which the past tense verb form is KOed). also, smogon uses the serial comma (Water, Grass, and Fighting). otherwise, good work!

    anyway, implement these in addition to the amateur check above

    Show Hide







    and consider this stamped!

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  23. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    Implemented. Thanks CBT and sirndpt!
  24. melvni

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    GP check. Good job on writing this.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>On paper, Roserade looks mediocre. A bland Grass / Poison type sitting in UU wouldn't stand a chance in a tier rife with such threats as Latios, Tornadus-T, Heatran, and Keldeo, right? It can't take a hit to save its life, right? Surprisingly, these statements are all both incorrect. Roserade is totally fabulous; just look at that cape! It's also the strongest Special special Grass-type in the entire game, sporting a nice Special Attack stat of 125 and a nice Speed stat of 90. Its Special Defense isn't too shabby either at 105, and although its Defense and HP are pretty low, they can easily be manipulated to survive some surprisingly hefty attacks. Despite being a bit starved for coverage, Roserade's offensive movepool is surprisingly varied, and it has pretty much every support move you'd ever want except other than Rapid Spin, even packing both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Roserade's typing allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes without a second thought and makes it immune to Leech Seed and Toxic, while also bringing along nifty resistances to Water, Grass, and Fighting, making it a solid Keldeo check. It's stronger than Celebi without the and lacks its awful Pursuit weakness, while it separates itself from Ferrothorn with its Speed and resistance to Fighting. Its fantastic ability, Natural Cure, lets it shrug off status by simply switching out. It didn't really gain anything in the transition to BW2, but it didn't really need anything new. All in all, Roserade is a fantastic Pokemon in OU whose flaws can easily be looked past.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Rest
    item: Black Sludge
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is perhaps Roserade's best set in the OU metagame, using its typing and excellent support movepool to its advantage. Roserade's calling card in OU over other Grass-types is its access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, a trait only shared with Forretress in OU (your call since I agree the more common set by far is Shell Smash, but you might also want to mention Cloyster here; it also has access to both and its on site utility set has a Spikes/Toxic Spikes slash). Roserade's typing is quite good on useful for defensive teams, as it lets Roserade absorb Toxic Spikes and resist Water, Fighting, Grass, and Electric. This typing allows it to go toe-to-toe with Keldeo, Rotom-W, and Jellicent, Pokemon that defensive teams have trouble with, and thanks to Natural Cure (add comma) it can absorb stray status moves and even set up on bulky Waters Water-types without fearing Scald. It does a decent job at breaking VoltTurn as well if it can avoid Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Roserade's most important move on this set is definitely Spikes, its best available entry hazard available. Giga Drain allows it to take a chunk out of Water-types and Terrakion, while Hidden Power Fire lets it hammer Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor. Rest lets it heal up to full HP in order to continue its job later in a battle. On most Pokemon, Rest is looked down on, as these Pokemon are stuck asleep for two turns or more. On Roserade, however, it can heal itself just by switching out, (remove comma) thanks to Natural Cure. Roserade is an excellent user of Toxic Spikes as well as Spikes, (remove comma) and can run it over Spikes or Hidden Power Fire. The EV spread listed allows it Roserade to take a Choice Band Bullet Punch from Scizor and a Choice Specs Secret Sword from Keldeo.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As far as alternate options on this set are concerned, Sleep Powder is your best bet, as putting a Pokemon to sleep practically removes it from the game. (Mention how Sleep Powder is illegal with Spikes here) Aromatherapy, Stun Spore, and Leech Seed are also excellent options, but are generally inferior to the ones listed. Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Ice can be used over Hidden Power Fire to nail Flying-types, Magic Bounce Pokemon, or Dragon-types on the switch. An EV spread of 252 HP / 44 SpA / 152 SpD / 60 Spe with a Timid nature can be used with a Timid nature to outspeed and OHKO Scizor with Hidden Power Fire.</p>

    <p>Espeon and Xatu are this set's greatest foes, as they can bounce back Roserade's entry hazards, then outspeed and OHKO with their STAB moves. Tentacruel takes Roserade's attacks like a champ while spinning Roserade's hazards away and setting its own. Latios and Latias resist its attacks and hit back hard with Psyshock or Draco Meteor. Heatran is a pain in the neck because it hits Roserade super effectively and doesn't fear anything but a stray Hidden Power Ground or Sleep Powder. Ironically, Heatran is also Roserade's best friend, taking the Fire Fire-type moves Roserade hates. Heatran and Jirachi can also keep Tornadus-T in check (add comma) so Roserade doesn't have to eat a Hurricane. While Roserade won't like the residual damage from sandstorm, Tyranitar and Landorus work well with Roserade. Tyranitar scares off the Lati twins, Espeon, and Xatu; Landorus takes out Tentacruel and Heatran with Sand Force boosted Earthquakes; and Roserade sponges the Water Water-type attacks that the two fear. Landorus-T can also be used without Tyranitar, as it takes out the same Pokemon while providing Intimidate for a physically defensive partner.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Toxic Spikes
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    (line break)
    <p>While Roserade's most common role is as an offensive user of Spikes and Toxic Spikes (adding this because Toxic Spikes is only a secondary slash on two moves on the first set), it can pull off a surprisingly good offensive set due to its excellent Speed and Special Attack stats. Its typing and ability provide even more benefits not commonly seen in the OU tier. Due to its Poison typing, it is one of the best offensive Toxic Spikes absorbers, and while an its ability might seem redundant in conjunction with its immunity to poison might seem redundant in conjunction with its ability, Natural Cure allows it to practically shrug off paralysis and sleep, which would otherwise effectively remove any other offensive Pokemon from the match.</p>

    <p>First and foremost, Roserade's powerful STAB Leaf Storm—running off of its high Special Attack—is the strongest unboosted Grass Grass-type attack in OU. Leaf Storm's unfortunate side effect often forces it Roserade out after one hit, however, so Sludge Bomb provides a powerful secondary STAB attack with the added benefit of hitting Tornadus-T and Salamence on the switch. Hidden Power Fire rounds off Roserade's coverage, (remove comma) and allows it to hit Pokemon such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn super effectively. Hidden Power Ground is an alternative that allows Roserade to hit Heatran, who which otherwise walls it, and gives a 31 Speed IV. However, it comes at the cost of the ability to hit many of OU's Steel-types. Sleep Powder is an excellent utility move that can remove a problematic Pokemon from the match, while Toxic Spikes provides nice team support rarely seen on an offensive Pokemon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As Hidden Power Fire requires a lowered Speed IV, the The set's 232 Speed EVs allow Roserade to reach 300 Speed and outrun neutral base 100 Pokemon by one point as Hidden Power Fire requires a lowered Speed IV, preventing Roserade from Speed tying with other positive natured base 90s. Although mostly barren, Roserade's movepool is surprisingly large for a Grass / Poison type Pokemon, and as such (add comma) it has a a couple more options to run in the fourth slot. Shadow Ball provides the best coverage with the given moves, while Weather Ball is an excellent move on weather teams and allows Roserade to run a different Hidden Power. Growth is Roserade's only boosting move, but Roserade is too frail to boost effectively, and Leaf Storm will simply remove the boost; furthermore, it is outclassed by Venusaur in this regard. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the third slot to hit Pokemon such as Dragonite, but this leaves Roserade helpless against Steel-types. Toxic Spikes can replace Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power to allow for Toxic Spikes and Sleep Powder. A Focus Sash can be used over Life Orb to get in a quick Sleep Powder or hit, but the power drop is huge.</p>

    <p>Offensive Roserade can be paired with a wide variety of teammates. It loves fast partners with Ground, Fighting, or Water Ground-, Fighting-, or Water-type moves, (remove comma) to remove Steel- and Fire-types from the match. Good options for these Pokemon include Starmie, Terrakion, and Dugtrio, the latter of whom which can also trap grounded Steel- and Fire-types and destroy them with Earthquake. Furthermore, physical walls can soak up attacks aimed at Roserade's awful Defense stat. A special mention goes to Slowbro, who which resists all the elemental types Roserade is weak to bar Flying and can switch out and regain health through Regenerator. Heatran resists Flying, is immune to Fire, and can set up Stealth Rock to help Roserade secure some KOs. Finally, Roserade is an excellent partner for any Pokemon that fears status afflictions, such as bulky Waters Water-types or Choice attackers, due to its innate immunity to Toxic and Natural Cure to remove status. Espeon, Starmie, and Volcarona all pose problems, but thankfully (add comma) Choice Scarf Terrakion can easily defeat these Pokemon with a quick Stone Edge or Close Combat.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Weather Ball is pretty awesome on weather teams. Rain and Sun sun essentially give Roserade a 150 Base Power Water- or Fire-type move and grant you the ability to use Hidden Power Ice/Ground Ice or Hidden Power Ground respectively, although you're really better off using a Chlorophyll sweeper such as Venusaur on Sun teams. Sandstorm gives it Roserade a Rock-type Weather Ball, which provides some useful coverage on Flying-type switch-ins. Hail makes Weather Ball Ice-type, which provides amazing coverage with Hidden Power Fire; this compounds your Hail team's weakness to Fire-type moves, however. Extrasensory smacks Infernape as it switches in and hits Poison-types hard, making it wonderful alongside Toxic Spikes. Leech Seed can be used to bug Heatran and sap ridiculous amounts of health from Blissey and Chansey. Aromatherapy is a great support option, but unless you have a very status-weak team, it's probably outclassed by another move.</p>

    <p>A set utilizing Choice Scarf is a nice idea; it might surprise faster Pokemon such as Terrakion and Keldeo. An EV spread of 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe with a Modest nature allows Roserade to outspeed all base 130 Pokemon and OHKO Tornadus-T in any weather with Weather Ball. An offensive set using Technician and Magical Leaf could be used to allow Spikes on an offensive set, but the loss of Natural Cure hurts pretty badly.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Strong priority moves from the likes or of Scizor, Mamoswine, and Lucario easily take out Roserade, especially since they target its low Defense stat. SubDisable Gengar resists Roserade's STAB moves, blocks Sleep Powder with Substitute, and can prevent it from using its coverage moves. Most Dragon-types can set up on Roserade, but they are hit hard by Sludge Bomb. Chansey and Blissey wall Roserade all day. Xatu and Espeon reflect its hazards and threaten back with Roserade's their STAB moves, but must be careful around offensive variants. Heatran is arguably Roserade's best counter, but fears Hidden Power Ground. Latios and Latias take its hits and can use Psyshock to wipe it out. Ferrothorn in the rain is rather annoying as it can set up as many hazards as it wants against Roserade. Most Fire-types can beat Roserade, but if they are outsped (add comma) they can be 2HKOed by Sludge Bomb&mdash;even Volcarona can't switch in on that. Both formes of Tornadus outspeed and destroy Roserade with Hurricane. Gothitelle can't take repeated hits but can easily trap and OHKO Roserade with Psychic. Dugtrio can trap and kill a weakened Roserade. Tentacruel takes Leaf Storm like a champ and spins away Roserade's hazards. Reuniclus doesn't care about entry hazards, takes Roserade's hits relatively well, and KOes in return with its own STAB moves. Fortunately for Roserade, all of its counters (except Magic Bounce users) can be neutered with a well-timed Sleep Powder.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  25. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Winner of the Biggest Dork Competition 2014
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    And that's a wrap! Thanks melvni!

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