1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Sigilyph

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Colonel M, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    The thing is, why are you leaving Sigil in on Tyranitar to begin with? Specially defensive mixd tyranitar can't do much to CP Sigilyph outside of critical hits or constant crunch defense drops.
  2. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,624
    So how much does Stone Edge does again?
  3. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    Burned Tyranitar's CB Stone Edge vs. 252/252 +1 Sigilyph: 36.8% - 43.7%

    Tyranitar's CB Stone Edge vs. 252/252 +1 Sigilyph: 73% - 86.2%

    Not only am I no longer sure of what Virizion is talking about, apparently I've been using the wrong Sigilpyh set all along. The calcs are done assuming Tyranitar switches in on you because no one is going to switch Sigil in on Tyranitar at any point in time.
  4. Anchormon92

    Anchormon92

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    So I realize this thread hasn't been touched in almost 9 months, but I was wondering if anyone else has been using Sigilyph in OU.

    I've been using him quite a bit, and while he does take some getting used to, there's not really anything else that does what he does. Early game, he can absorb status and/or spread burns (without any risk of activating Flash Fires), and later, he can become a wall/sweeper. Yes, there are plenty of things that shut him down (phazers, Dark-types, Taunt, and Trick, as well as strong attacks early), but it's surprisingly easy to find places to set up. Unfortunately, his greatest enemy may be probability, as the longer he stays in, the more likely it is that something terrible happens to him.

    Chance of a critical hit within:
    4 turns: 23%
    6 turns: 32%
    8 turns: 40%
    11 turns: 51%

    So while carefully calculated Cosmic Power and Roosts can stall out most opponents until you run out of PP, even a weak attack's critical hit at the wrong time can take down Sigi, and the longer he stays in (which is what he's going to do), the more likely that critical hit will become.

    Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a great group to put around Sigilyph. I tried a modified Solum's Core, which was quite good, but when I tried others, I always have holes. Has anyone found any Pokemon who work really well with it?
  5. Showsni

    Showsni

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    884
    I like pairing it with a Baton Passing Venomoth. With one or two Quiver Dances under its belt, Sigilyph's Stored Power increases in leaps and bounds; and with the passed speed, you don't need to worry about speed EVs at all and can safely get your defensive boosts off before being attacked if need be. It's still a crit magnet if you need to boost up, though, and Dark types are still annoying (walled by Houndour), but I guess you can use other team members for that.
  6. Vemane

    Vemane

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    398
    I feel as if the best sigi set is cp/whirlwind/stored power/roost

    Switch in on something that can'ttake it out, boost up, phase darks and steels that wall you, and murder everything. I feel ww has much more utility than psycho shift... at least with sigi's huge 4mss... If only it could run ps/ww/sp/roost/sub/cp/cm/mean look/hp fighting
  7. Anchormon92

    Anchormon92

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    I haven't tried that set, but I think it may be a matter of team support. I assume you're running Leftovers as the item, which is missed at times with the Psycho Shift set, but I think I prefer the perks of Psycho Shift more than Whirlwind. The immunity to status (assuming you can get him in against one safe attack, which isn't too hard) is huge for Sigilyph. Like most other Pokemon, he's useless when he's asleep. He REALLY hates paralysis though. With the prevalence of Bolt-Beam, the fast Roost can help him keep the damage to a minimum and build up Cosmic Powers quickly. It's also hard enough to choose when to use which move already, but the speed reduction and possible missed turns can take him out before he even gets started. I just like the utility in spreading burns and being immune to status. I understand that you can still switch him into a Toxic/Will-O-Wisp/Scald, but that's a little risky, and you can't spread it. I see Whirlwind's merits during a mid-to-late game sweep, but I don't really see Sigilyph as a "sweeper". It has such a unique role that it's hard to categorize it. I am liking the "fast" Whirlwind though, as most phazers are going to be slower than him.

    As far as the 4MSS, it would be nice to have that giant moveset, but it's far from needed. He has everything he needs to do what he needs to do. Dark-types are a problem, but luckily, there are only 3 in OU (Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Scrafty) and 3 others within the top 100 (Sableye, Weavile, Zoroark). The Psychic/Steels and Chansey/Blissey are also annoying, but that's what team support is for, and luckily, most of those problems can be solved with a strong Fighting-type. Every Pokemon would like 8 moves, but picking 4 is part of the fun! It would be really nice to be able to fit HP Fighting or Air Slash though. I think I'd actually prefer Air Slash though, as it would only used for damage before setting up and Dark-types. HP Fighting could do more damage to the Dark-types, but Sableye and Spiritomb would be untouched.
  8. Phi

    Phi

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    155
    Yeah the combination of psycho shift and stored power basically gives him complimentary early and late game utility. I'm actually wondering about how people are doing with Calm Mind Sigilyph, which gets a stronger stored power faster due to the special attack boosts which I find a lot of the time to be a bit of a dealbreaker. With wise use of Psycho Shift, basically nothing is going to be able to kill you before you get a boost or two, and the monumental difference in power between the special attack even invested CP Sigilyph versus a CM one at +2 is enormous. You can also forgo healing or status entirely to run a move that actually hits dark types.

    He's a beast of the highest order overall, though, and probably one of the coolest Unova pokemon still. His biggest fault is that his stats are all pretty much the definition of mediocre making it hard for those defenses to kick in versus key critical hits, though at least his stats are better than clefables so all the things both him and clefable can do he basically outclasses the fairy at.
  9. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    if you are going to go full on offensive with calm mind, i dont see any point in stored power. its only going to be stronger after two boosts (than psychic) and it wont get that far without the +1 +1 from cp. thats why i think you either have to go full on defensive stored power psycho shift sigilyph or a full on offensive set like

    sigilyph@life orb
    4hp 252sp.atk 252spd
    modest/ magic guard
    -calm mind
    -psychic
    -air slash
    -hp fighting
  10. Olympus

    Olympus

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    119
    I find the defensive Stored Power set superior to the offensive Calm Mind. The offensive set is outclassed by the likes of Alakazam and Espeon.
  11. DragonKnighted

    DragonKnighted

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    34
    Sigilyph (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Cosmic Power
    - Psycho Shift
    - Stored Power
    - Roost

    This is my favourite sigilyph set. send him in on something he resists and start setting up cosmic power, burning physical attackers then clean sweeping with stored power.
  12. Anchormon92

    Anchormon92

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    While Calm Mind is not a bad idea, I think sometimes people try too hard to find sweeping sets rather than focusing on what the Pokemon does well. It is true that the combination of Burn and Calm Mind would protect him from both sides of the spectrum while boosting his Special Attack much more quickly. It's also a good surprise (although Sigilyph himself can be a good surprise lower on the ladder), as opponents will be more willing to attack from the special side to avoid having their physical attacker crippled, only to find that Sigilyph isn't boosting his physical Defense. However, Sigilyph really needs both defenses boosted if it has any hope of sweeping (which is what the Calm Mind set seems like it wants to do). If a faster physical Attacker comes in, he won't be able to pass the burn, and he won't be able to attack it first.

    Sigilyph was blessed with the right tools to pull off a very unique and powerful set. His typing allows him to easily switch in to Ground and Fighting attacks, while remaining neutral to Flying's weaknesses while Roosting. His ability allows him to switch in as many times as he wants despite hazards, ignores Leech Seed, and provides status immunity with the Flame Orb. Psycho Shift allows him to have a 90% accurate burn move while also having the ability to pass poison or paralysis if something goes wrong. Cosmic Power allows him to become nearly indestructible (barring critical hits) if enough are built up. Stored Power gives him a very strong attack for a wall, and Roost gives him instant recovery. I don't know any other Pokemon that can do all that. It would be foolish not to look for other sets, but at least in OU, I don't know that Sigi can do any better.

    Back to teammates though. I like the idea of Baton-Passing Venomoth, but I'm not quite sure about it. Neither like Taunt, Trick, or phazing, and it seems Sleep Powder could conflict with Burn-Shifts if Sigilyph has to come out before Venomoth. Also, that's already 2 Pokemon on a team that use Special attacks, but are fairly useless without boosts. If you want to throw in a few more abusers of QuiverPass (Nidoking or Hydreigon for example), it leaves little space for Physical attackers and/or any kind of walls. I'll have to test it out though, as I love Venomoth too, and the opportunity to boost Sigilyph even more is too good to pass up. Any other ideas for teammates (QuiverPass or not)?
  13. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    You could just utilize a defensive calm mind set. Most of the physical attackers who will outspeed you won't try to switch into sigilyph anyway for fear of psycho shift. Cosmic power sets are good, but defensive calm mind boosts the power of stored power to astronomically high levels. This is important since calm mind bulky sigilyph doesn't need to spend six turns boosting in order to KO things. The less time you spend boosting, the lower your chances are of being critted and losing your Pokemon. You also don't get phased out as easily.
  14. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,681
    A Calm Mind set could work in OU, but you'd then have to watch out for powerful physical attackers like Choiced Tyranitar and Lum Berry Dragonite and Haxorus. Choice Band Tyranitar can 2HKO Sigilyph with Crunch, even if it's Burned while Dragonite and Haxorus can come in on anything other than Will-O-Wisp, take one after they're in with Lum Berry, and outspeed and 2HKO with Outrage. Choice Band Haxorus also has a chance to 2HKO Sigilyph, even it it's Burned. Cosmic Power Sigilyph doesn't have these problems because it can use Cosmic Power as they switch in.

    Set up physical attackers will also pose a problem. For example, +6 Burned Scizor will OHKO Sigilyph with Bug Bite, which means that a +2 Burned Scizor will 2HKO it with the same move or OHKO it if it tries to Roost. Cosmic Power Sigilyph doesn't have this problem as it can simply boost its Def alongside the opponent's Atk.

    Overall, I think Cosmic Power Sigilyph is the better set due to the fact that nothing barring a critical hit can stop it once it starts setting up./ The boosted SpAtk only seems to help against Chansey and Blissey, who can be Stalled out if they've already used a few Wishes in the match.
  15. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,443
    Choice band Tyranitar is almost as rare as growth technician breloom in DW NU. And I'm not sure why you would leave sigilyph in on it anyway if your only attack was stored power. You're going to risk around 8 turns of crit chances and crunch defense drops just for Tyranitar to kill himself off of burn damage? Seriously?

    Swords dance scizor is 2hko'd by 0 Ev'd +2 stored power calm mind sigilyph. He won't be getting to +6 anytime soon. Admittedly, dragonite and haxorus are a bit of a problem for defensive calm mind. On other hand, offensive calm mind outspeeds both and smacks them in the face with a +1 ice beam (I rage quit against a guy who was using hp ice on this Pokemon).

    You overestimate cosmic power sigilyph DDR. Excluding the bulky phazers who can't stop you if sigilyph is the last Pokemon, you lose to both subCM Latias and subCM Jirachi. They WILL crit you before you crit them. Guts conkeldurr isn't ohko'd by stored power until you reach +3 with cosmic power. Calm mind only needs a +2 boost.

    Not to say that cp sigilyph is bad. It isn't. There are just some advantages to using a calm mind set over it. Cp sigilyph isn't that afraid of banded terrakion for example.
  16. NoUserName

    NoUserName

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    I tested the Standard OU set of this pokemon, which has Cosmic Power, few time ago, and you are overrating this 'mon, it has nothing to do against most Offensive Pokemon with Substitute since Stored Power without boosts is too weak. Taunt foes cripple it and it can be phazed or Perish Song'd

    It has nothing to do against Fire type foes and receives too much damage from Strong special attackers.
    It has troubles against Toxic Orb Gliscor, so, most of them either SD or Taunt versions.

    I am not saying this 'mon is useless in OU, by any means, but it is not close to invincible even if it is the last 'mon of the team.

    Burning opponents while inmune to status, SR and weather is funny though.
  17. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,620
    A few points to be made.
    Firstly, offensive pokemon with substitute rarely have taunt or boosting moves, so they're straight up setup bait. Get up to plus six and i can tell you that you'll be breaking those substitutes. Phazing means you have to get burned, although it's definitely doable. Perish song ditto. Taunt messes him up, but it is possible to outspeed and burn. As for toxic orb gliscor, only taunt versions are a huge deal. Otherwise, just keep boosting and then spam stored power. As for fire-type foes, let me break down common OU fire-types for you.
    Heatran:As shown below, heatran can roar it and not particularly care. If it lacks roar, however, it's done without crits.
    Infernape: Doesn't want to switch in on even plus zero assist power, and isn't really powerful enough to not be setup bait on its mixed set either, in my opinion.
    Ninetales: You MUST be joking. Still setup bait.I suppose a specs set might be a little threatening, but i'm not sure, and those are pretty rare regardless.
    Darminitan:The main problem. Of course, since he's probably unleashing flare blitz, you can take one and roost. With that and SR up, once he switches back in he's nearly dead anyways.
    As you can see, common OU fire-types fail against sigilyph, other than arguably Darminitan.

    The main way i deal with it is roar plus protect heatran, and sableye. Heatran roars it away, taking only 12% from the plus one stored power, which it can protect off with lefties. When it's the last pokemon, i can sacrifice something, then bring in sableye, then finish it off with taunt and night shade.
  18. G-Von

    G-Von

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    OK PEOPLE. This thing honestly has some serious potential that no one has given it yet. It now learns Heat Wave via Move Tutors in BW2 along with some other great coverage moves. Steels can no longer laugh at the POWER. Oh, do I hear something? Heatran, is that you? HA! Quit your laughing. Sigilyph also gets Tinted Lens as it's DW ability. It can now 2HKO Heatran even when Stealth Rocks aren't on the field! Lets view a couple of possible sets.

    Offensive Life Orb
    Sigilyph@Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EV's: 252 SP. Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock/Dark Pulse
    - Roost/Energy Ball

    This set aims to take advantage of it's ability to boost it moves by 30% without any recoil damage. A 396 attack from this thing is gonna hurt anything that doesn't resist it. Heat Wave and Ice Beam are there for good coverage to hit many things 4 times super effectively. Psyhock is there to hit things with weaker defenses for at least neutral damage. Roost is there to recover any damage it received or possibly, to avoid a super effective hit by making it only a psychic type for that turn. Some things do counter you very well though. Heatran, Sharpedo, and those stupid fat blobs are the main pokemon that can come in without any worries to this set.

    Choice Scarf
    Sigilyph@Coice Scarf
    Trait: Tinted Lens
    EV's: 252 SP. Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Ice Beam
    - Energy Ball
    - Air slash/Psyshock/Psychic/Signal Beam/Dark Pulse

    WHO'S LAUGHING NOW! NO ONE! Once again, Ice Beam and Heat Wave are here for disposing of those common pokemon 4 times weak to fire or ice moves. Energy Ball is here for the same reason. Now Gastrodon and Swampert will think twice before switching in. The Last slot is based on what your team needs to cover. I would probably go with Air Slash as the main STAB move here but any of those moves are viable. Here is what Sigilyph fears with this set: choice scarfers with positive speed natures and a base speed stat of 97 or higer and pokemon with speed boosting moves. Stealth Rocks and status is now a problem too.

    EDIT: Totally forgot to add in how he takes damage from status and SR.
  19. preliator

    preliator

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    I COUNTER TECHNILOOM.

    I still posted exact this set on the Breloom thread but now that there's a Sigilyph thread I'll post again just in case there are users haven't seen this.
    One big + to Sigi, it does not take any damage from hazards thx to Magicguard and if Flame Orb is still activated it can savely switch into Looms Spore.

    Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
    Magicguard
    252HP, 216Def, 40Spd (Bold; +Def, - Atk.)
    -Comicpower // Calm Mind
    -Roost
    -Psycho Shift
    -Stored Power // Air Slash


    Not landed:
    252 Atk Life Orb Breloom (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 77,01% - 90,8%

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 8,62% - 10,34%

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 10,63% - 12,64%
    8-10 hits to KO

    Landed:
    252 Atk Life Orb Breloom (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 38,51% - 45,4%

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 17,24% - 20,69%

    252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/216 Def Sigilyph (+Def) : 21,55% - 25,29%
    4-5 hits to KO

    Given EVs for alot more bulk and 40Spd EVs are there to outspeed 252Spd Adamant Loom by 1Spd.
    Landed it simply can roost off and PP stall... for example... or setup ^^
    Psycho Shift to burn Loom or incomming (most likely) physical attackers.

    So whats your opinion to this Set?
    Might work.
  20. Blazing Mewtwo

    Blazing Mewtwo

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Sorry, posted in the wrong Sigilyph topic.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)