1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - August 2010

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by DougJustDoug, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. IcyMan28


    Sep 18, 2008
    Electivire's 252 Adamant CB Thunderpunch vs max/max Impish Forry: (31.36% - 37.29%)

    Heracross's 252 Adamant CB Close Combat vs max/max Impish Forry: (50.28% - 59.60%)

    Lucario's 252 Adamant CB Close Combat vs max/max Impish Forry: (46.05% - 54.52%)

    Using maximum attack and the most powerful attack at their disposal (and using it on a neutral target), Electivire is the weakest of the 3 by far. If it really were both faster and stronger, it would be higher than Lucario in usage.

    On that note, lol UU Hera. It will destroy the tier for a bit before getting the boot, I think.
  2. WarriorPrince


    Nov 9, 2008
    If Evire had a 120 Base Power Stab attack it would do 50% - 58.8% to that same Forretress.

    Electivire has a higher Base Attack and Speed than Lucario. By no means does that mean his damage output will be higher.

    Electivire has better coverage. Of course the damage output will be higher if a you are showing a 120 Base Power STAB move versus a 75 Base Power Stab move. Electivire can dispose of Forretress with Flamethrower or Fire Punch, both of which received respectable usage on Electivire. Lucario is a much better sweeper, though.

    The previous poster was not saying that Electivire was a better pokemon, just had better stats in those two areas.

    Heracross is stronger than Lucario, but not faster. Evire beats Luke in attack and speed. Weavile is faster and stronger than Luke as well. Usage doesn't necessarily equate to Strength and Speed, but rather overall ability to perform in the metagame.
  3. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Jan 2, 2010
    Heracross works just fine in the metagame (MUCH better than stupid Electivire). Did you ever try the CB set? Fucking. Beast.
  4. SelkiesFTW


    May 3, 2010
    After scouting a team, racking up some damage and scizor dead, scarfcross can pretty much sweep anything
  5. haunter

    haunter Banned deucer.

    Aug 6, 2007
    Lucario has extremespeed to bypass its mediocre Speed stat. Lucario has better typing than Electivire. Lucario has a 120 BP STAB move to work with. That's why Lucario>Electivire. As usual thanks for the stats Doug.
  6. Thund91


    May 28, 2009
    So can everything else.
  7. calze6


    Nov 28, 2009
    Groudon leads have dropped a lot. Blissey has dropped too. Has stall lost its touch?
  8. SelkiesFTW


    May 3, 2010
    Ehh not everyone has base 125 attack and two 120 power base moves. If used correctly, heracross is definetly a huge thread for any team
  9. tripe


    Sep 18, 2008
    Not to mention that Lucario has swords dance, while Electivire only has Meditate.
  10. SalTheThief


    Apr 30, 2010
    Breloom at 16? Not as high as I would've thought. He's such a 'check' pokemon, always forcing the opponent to decide what gets slept and what gets focus punched or seed bombed when he comes in on a slower pokemon. Not to mention that he could sometimes catch you off guard by subbing first to see what you'll sleep. Starmie lead isn't getting enough love. I've been using it to much success, usually taking down 1 - 2 pokemon without rocks on my side.
  11. sharkz


    Jun 17, 2010
    Yeah starmie lead is awesome, I use it and it pretty much almost always stops SR at the start of the match.

    @selkies: pretty much anything can sweep after their counters have been removed. Lucario can sweep after Gliscor bites the dust. Gengar can sweep once Ttar and Scizor are gone. So yeah. Hera's STAB does hit hard though so you can probably blow some good holes in your opponent's team :)
  12. petrie911


    Aug 27, 2005
    The cutoff value is S/176.14, where S is the sum of the usage of all Pokemon. Doug's stats are reported in such a way that the sum is 600%. 600% / 176.14 = 3.4%

    So, yeah, it is 3.4%.
  13. Veedrock


    Oct 18, 2008
    Usage being the actual number of pokemon uses, not percentage (every month adds up to 600%). It's also not just this month, it includes the previous months, which means you have to make the values relative to one another before you can even do anything with them. It's really not a cut and dry number, otherwise that 3.4 would simply be stated in the article.
  14. petrie911


    Aug 27, 2005
    The process described in the article can basically be summed up as

    1) Find relative frequencies for each Pokemon in each month
    2) make a weighted average of those frequencies
    3) compare to the fixed cutoff value of 1/176.14

    Doug reports his relative frequencies in a way that they add up to 600% instead of 1, but it doesn't really make a significant difference since that's just a constant multiplier. It just changes the cutoff from 1/176.14 to 3.4%.

    So, while usage from previous months does matter, if the weighted average is below 3.4%, the Pokemon will drop. In Heracross's case, he's been below 3.4% in every month since April, so there is no way for that average to be above 3.4%. Further, since the most recent month has the highest weight by a fair margin, unless there has been a large change in usage from previous months, the usage statistics for this month will be a very good indicator of the weighted averages.
  15. yiran


    Aug 26, 2010
    i agree with Petrie911 for the Tier list calculation. Does UU follow this rule too?

    Anyways, my short attempt at a little status report ^^. For OU only... ==

    Let's start with the top.

    Heatran. He's still up there. After the Mence ban, Scizor was less used as a revenge killer, but it is still useful. Heatran is still there with the 4x resistance against bullet punch and fire which kills Scizor. Scizor is still out there with it's OMG STAB priority Technician Bullet Punch that virtually kills everything that doesn't resist it. It has less use with Salamence gone, but nonetheless still a good pokemon.

    Gengar has rised up and high! With Salamence gone, it's a little harder to explit it's defenses, although Scizor still cripples it with Bullet Punch... unless Gengar sets up a Substitute! The main set that gets praised now is SubSplit Gengar, which with Gengar's low HP, can cripple walls like Blissey. His Special attack paired with speed is also certainly quite devastating.

    Dragonite made a big jump! Everyone knows why. He's now the official dragon of OU with Salamence gone... but he still has to deal with Flygon and Kingdra, which of Flygon is more of a threat, not only having Spikes immunity and is also resistant to Stealth Rock!

    Blissey is now not used much. Why? With Heatran at top, the Special Wall should be more used! With other Special attackers up there like Starmie, Rotom-A, Gengar, and- There's one of the problems! Subsplit Gengar counters Blissey horribly. Don't forget other awesome sweepers; Gyarados, Tyranitar, Scizor, etc. are physically strong, and Blissey fears them.

    Vaporeon had had quite a bit of an uprise to counter Heatran! Also benefited from the Salamence ban, Vaporeon is quite a dedicated wall; With High HP and Special Defense, it is a fully rounded wall. What? You say that it's defense isn't good enough? It may be low, but only part of the Physical Sweepers can Abuse it. First of all, Acid armor strengthens it and makes it stronger. Scizor cannot hit it with the most powerful Bullet Punch, so it must resort to other weaker moves. Gyarados cannot hit hard with STAB Waterfall; and Bounce leaves Vapereon a free turn to set up. With it's high Special Defense, it can fend off one or two Thunderbolts or Grass Knots/Leaf Storms.

    The most used Rotom form, H, has fallen below Jolteon! Although the causes aren't that clear, Jolteon sweeps better with Higher speed, although it doesn't get bonuses from Shadow Ball. Or, Jolteon can Baton Pass, one thing that Rotom doesn't do.

    How is Suicune still sitting down there? It can both sweep and defend. It's typing is also very Beneficial. It should rise up, especially with Heatran dominating.

    Rotom - W also had quite a big jump! Was it because Heatran is at top of OU?

    Roserade also had some improvements. First of all, it has STABed Grass attacks, which deal with Swampert. It also has Sleep Powder, which is very effecient. Spikes support is also very useful.

    Why isn't Shaymin up there yet? Grass is quite a useful type in OU, and Seed Flare performs extra well as Shaymin's STAB attack, also having a chance to cripple Blissey by lowering the Defenses.

    According to calculations, Heracross is moving down to UU! It'll probably get BLed anyways so it doesn't have such a big impact.

    Report Finish!

    I'm sure there's better stat geeks than me...
  16. ShinyAzelf

    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 18, 2010
    Azelf = 23rd most used Uber lead. I'm impressed..
  17. YaM


    Jun 9, 2009
    Kabutops is the second most common Water type found in UU... and Omastar is the fourth most common Water type.
  18. Raikaria


    May 20, 2009
    It's useages, not battles. Each battle has 2 sides, hence, 2 useges up for grabs per battle. The total number of useages = Battles *12 [2 Sides per battle, 6 pokemon per side, 12 pokemon per battle]. Nothing's wrong with Kyogre having more useages than battles. It just means on average, there's a Kyogre in every single game, sometimes on both sides.

    Anyway, I'm confused as anything. Salamance leaving made Blissey go down?! Sure, Mance can't OHKO Blissey, while Dragonite can, but still, they're both primarily physical threats. And despite gaining a place, Skarmory lost about 0.1% of useage.

    What's more, Skarmory is only paired with Blissey 35.96% of the time now, instead of 36.56% of the time. Another sign that stall may be falling in

    Is stall becoming RARER without Mance 0_o.

    Anyway, let's look around spot 48.

    #44: Umbreon
    #45: Smeargle
    #46: Heracross
    #47: Rotom-C
    #48: Porygon-Z
    #49: Alakazam
    #50: Gallade
    #51: Uxie

    But wait, Rotom's only counted once!

    #43: Umbreon
    #44: Smeargle
    #45: Heracross
    #46: Porygon-Z
    #47: Alakazam
    #48: Gallade
    #49: Uxie

    However, all 5 Rotom formes are counted as OU, so this brings the OU list down to 44 pokemon, not 48, in reality.

    As it stands, looking at the cutoff as it is now, Heracross may fall to UU, but Smeargle is likly safe. Likewise, there is a slim chance that Porygon-Z and Alakazam may return to OU.
  19. TLK


    Oct 1, 2009
    Skarm/Bliss falls probably because Infernape is still pretty widely used, and Gengar can now beat both fairly comfortably with Pain Split set.
  20. JSND


    Jun 28, 2010
    no not hera in UU seiing hera with flame orb 4 attack set in action i cant imagine
    how imbalanced and how will it destroy UU. Argh his adamant orb combat can even OHKO
  21. yiran


    Aug 26, 2010
    Sorry, whether or not a pokemon gets into OU is determined by a formula. After calculation, Pokemon above 3.4 percent are likely to stay or get in OU, and vice versa. Heracross is falling, but Smeargle isn't. No one's rising. For now.
  22. cmurph


    Jun 11, 2009
    Can't wait till hera hits uu. UUs had it too good for too long!
  23. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

    Feb 6, 2008
    Really UU Cross ? Wow...

    I used Heracross on suspect a month back and really nothing could stop SD Cross + Dual Screens period, even Gliscor loses to this shit lol.

    Also stop using fucking Umbreon and Tenta already so then can drop too. :/ lol
  24. RBG

    RBG Trying to get my Smods back D:
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jan 27, 2008
    Not to mention that the previous 2 months are calculated into the tiers as well.
  25. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    May 25, 2010
    I just realized that this was the new month's thread, lol. First of all, HERACROSS IS UU OMG! Remember when Dugtrio came over to UU? People speculated that it would be overpowered, just as they are now. But it didn't make that big of a difference to UU. Just something to think about. Anyway, I'm predicting Heracross will be completely overused in UU, at least for the first month. I'm definitely going to try it.

    EDIT: Won't someone have to write an update for Heracross in C&C now?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)