1. GET SMOGON SHIRTS HERE! First time ever. Limited time only & next time the design will be different, so get it while you can!
  2. Welcome to the Orange Islands! Please remember to read the rules. Come chat with us on our IRC channel and enjoy your stay!
  3. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  4. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Speed Run Challenge

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Sprocket, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Professor Science

    Professor Science

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    333
    Role, it's so that people can't just reset for more favourable outcomes. Without the time penalty, people could easily gain a lot of time by RNGing the game, or at the very least hoping a Gym Leader will use different moves.
  2. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    348
    Ghetsis may be the primary story objective, but there is an E4 rematch in there, so keep going son.

    Myself, I've tried this with Ruby and Emerald a couple of times, my best being 7:22:38 on the latter (my Ruby's internal clock is dead, but all that really means is that I can't get the shell bell anymore). However, I was unaware of the rule about save penalties, so just keep in mind that that's my time before those. I know there's at least 15 minutes on top of that because of how much of an issue I had with Wattson and Norman, and I learned as a kid to always save before taking that final step into the league challenge, but I don't have a precise count.

    (as a side note, Emerald's Trainer Hill is basically a speedrun minigame...I'm surprised they haven't revived that concept like they have with the Frontier)

    Protip: If you want to solo with Mudkip, you'd better know how to dodge the Aroma Ladies.

    Edit: Holy shit, KoWL, you actually completed a single-segment run of Black? O_O
  3. callforjudgement

    callforjudgement

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    301
    The main thing you have to do differently if you want as much speed as possible is to only train one or two Pokémon, and to plan out PP management. Funnelling all the exp to one or two Pokémon is the main way to help them level faster than the things you're fighting (and likewise, you'll want Lucky Egg as your item if you can obtain it quickly in the game you're playing); and you should be sweeping things outright, and thus not needing to heal often. (Typically, it's fastest to use one Pokémon in generations I and II, one plus a backup for double battles, normally obtained at a high level to avoid having to actually train it, in III and IV, and two main Pokémon on V because the exp formula is different.) Remember that you can use Potions (etc.) and Ethers (etc.) to heal HP and PP equivalently, and it'll probably be faster than going to a Pokémon Center; it's nearly always worth going a few seconds out of your way for an Ether. (Look up where they are in your game of choice, if you don't know already.) Also, status effects tend to be the most dangerous obstacle to a speedrun; you might want to stock up on appropriate status healers, if you can afford them, to avoid being helplessly nibbled down while asleep, or have to make a huge detour due to poison. (Avoiding poison issues is less important since poison damage was eliminated, though.)
  4. Veneficus

    Veneficus

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Just got done beating Ghetsis in White, with a time of 8:41. Saw this thread, and decided to give it a go. Only saved like, 5 times, give or take, in case something happened, like the game card came out, battery died, et cetera. DS stayed on the whole time, so those saves should not count against my time. That would be total bull. Team was comprised of Emboar Lv. 64, Zekrom Lv. 51, and some HM slaves.
  5. Kaphotics

    Kaphotics Remodeling Kitchens
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    781
    to do the fastest run for B/W, here's some tips:
    • you can't use only one pokemon; you have to use at least two due to the XP formula hindering overleveled Pokemon but boosting underleveled.
      • If you're generally underleveled but play well enough you won't fall behind with just 2 Pokemon.
    • as always, do the run in winter to skip one battle at twist mountain in addition to less walking required.
    • for HM slaves you only need
      • cut (elemental monkey can learn it)
      • strength (emboar / gurdurr can learn it)
      • fly (ducklett is good)
      • you don't need to teach surf.
    • the better you manage PP the less you'll have to heal at Pokecenters

    other stuff:
    • The Alder sanctioned double battle is the only rigged battle in the entire game, you can't crit the kids.
    • Be sure to skip the trainer in the 7th gym.
    • In the 8th gym Veteran Kim is skippable (2 fraxures lvl 40&41), if you can't OHKO them it might be wise to skip.
    • A TAS-Guts abuse isn't possible in a speedrun, and Sawk would have trouble against the E4 (plus its dark isn't STAB).
    • Liepard might be a good choice to run with Emboar for a second pass E4 clear as it is a fast dark type with Fake Out, and could run a mixed set if you get Shadow Ball in Relic Castle.
      • Liepard can also learn cut so you might not have to pick up a monkey; this might waste a move slot so getting a monkey and teaching it would be better
    • Speaking of TAS, you should watch any TAS video of a game before you speedrun it just to get a general feel of how things should go. I did a TAS of White and clocked in at 3:19:53 for a second pass E4 clear.
  6. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,187
    liepard is arguably terrible. until level 43, it doesn't learn any half-decent STAB. You're stuck with godawful moves until that level.

    If anything, a run with emboar / archeops seems like a far more reasonable idea. You get access to archen at a time when it's about the same level as pignite (iirc) so that's good as well.
  7. Roie

    Roie

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Yes. Please explain what is wrong with that.
  8. Roie

    Roie

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Reseting for a more favorable outcome is already a penalty and you don't want to do it.
    With this 5minute rule, I am forced to do one of two things:
    1) I reset the run more often
    2) I'm forced to buy more X-Attacks to ensure I win battles 100%.

    and #2 is not an option because my route is already incredibly tight with money. Losing a battle means I permanently lose my X-items I use, making the run dead.

    Basically what I'm saying here is this rule, which is solving a thing that isn't a problem, increases the effect luck has on this game.
  9. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    I've been an avid fan of "Pokemon Speed-Runs" ever since I can remember enjoying playing Red for the first time. It amazes me how the tools which are programmed into emulators allow for completion in a reasonable ammount of time. Once I myself learned there were records for finishing each version, I just had to see how I faired against record-holders in an effort to surpass their best times.

    I even play hacks and aim to finish them as quickly as I can. It can be more challenging when the level difficulty forces you to think on your toes in any given match, and you're prone to losing more often than you'd like to think; making your speed-run more gripping and fullfilling till the last battle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjA5vTe7wqY&list=PLBBB505E495EFD7E5&index=1&feature=plpp_video

    According to SDA (SpeedDemosArchive) they have a Blue record capped around the one hour fifty mark. That's impressive, even for a solo-run on a regular timeframe. Their main site has more videos of Pokemon run-throughs, each holding a record of time for whichever version you choose to watch.

    But me, personally, I'd rather group up with a few friends of mine on Skype, select a Pokemon game to speed-run through and see who can finish 1st, 2nd, etc. MunchingOrange may be a familiar name to some of you readers, and every now and then I have watched his speed-runs where he and his friends challenge one another to see whoever can finish the game first.

    I would like to see something here at Smogon, as I'm sure many viewers would be excited to see a series of veterens master one of the classic games in a speedy fashion. I may be sounding overdramatic and overenthused by this, but I can say it's a relief from the competitive scene and also is a way to freshen up on your knowledge of the mechanical aspects with which each generation evolved from. If there is any interest, I would be glad to here from some of you and if Smogon approves, perhaps upload the cast on YouTube.

    Ideas/Questions/Concerns?
  10. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,508
    Watching this speed run; I'm really impressed by the sheer depth of in-game knowledge and strategy of these guys. Suddenly, I'm tempted to download a no$gmb emulator... Although I've never progressed beyond Mount Moon in any attempt to replay RBY during the last 5 years (lack of running shoes is intolerable).

    If hacks are allowed, I imagine that starting with Abra (in any version) and TM psychic would be optimal due to teleport.
  11. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    I was playing "Backwards Fire Red" and essentially it's a re-shaped design of Kanto, and well you basically play the gym leaders in reverse order. Teleport is also a Psychic-type Explosion, but generally the edits made make this seem like a worthwhile hack.

    I'm so tempted to hear any thoughts on gathering a bunch of voluntary and/or well-renowed users to race to see who can beat the final battle first. Like MO's crew, you can restrict what is available in-game as far as renewal purposes and team count goes to highten the difficulty, so you're efforts are rewarded more overall as oppose to being remembrance only.

    But with all that is riding on the occasion would mean it would be wiser to stick to an official version, avoiding any unwanted glitches/malfunctions of game save, etc.

    I really think Smogon's Orange Islands community and leaders should consider embarking on this adventure! Be some fun :)
  12. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Messages:
    4,540
    These are some quick times..

    Definitely makes me want to give it a whirl.
  13. Shining Kestral

    Shining Kestral

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    318
    Watching speedruns are a particular passion of mine.

    SDA only accepts speedruns played on legitimate copies of games - so that Blue run was done on a cartridge, no emulators involved. It was also a single segement run - meaning it was done in one sitting with no saving or breaks whatsoever. I recommend watching a bunch of the runs, both the straightforward ones and the ones that show off some crazy glitches like the Yellow save glitch. A run done on a live stream once exploited a glitch that netted the runner a level 100 Venusaur before even going to face Brock. (The video of that should be somewhere.) These facts make the speedruns even more impressive.

    I probably won't participate myself, but I wouldn't mind helping to make it happen.
  14. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,187
    I thought there was already a thread about this somewhere ?_?

    Yes, this is correct and, in fact, one of the things that is very easy to abuse. By doing the Mew glitch and getting pretty much any level 1 Pokemon (don't recall where you can do it; I think it was Viridian Forest + Escape Rope...), you can get an instant level 100 (specifically, one that corresponds to one of the lower index numbers due to the relatively low possible specials at that point in the first place; this is why you can get a level 100 Venusaur - Ivysaur is at index 9 (if you wanted to, I'd assume you could get a Slowbro or an Exeggutor with little difficulty in the same way)) which you can use to really easily cheese the game.
  15. Zowayix

    Zowayix

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    342
    It's only possible in Yellow, where the second-to-last(?) Trainer in Viridian Forest is a "long-distance" trainer that the Mew glitch requires. This trainer is not in R/B.
  16. BeastMode2010

    BeastMode2010

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    I could totally see this becoming like the Subway Record thread. Having screenshots and what not to prove your time and possibly even strategy involved. I might try a speedrun on my platinum or SS to see how well I do. lol
  17. Level 51

    Level 51 by far the worst
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,835
    5:27 on one of my slower Black times, using only Serperior.
    Which starter, in theory, would do best for speedruns?
  18. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    Well my aim was to acquire a dozen or so users and gather on #OrangeIslands to Skype up a recording. We would essentially follow the same method as MO's crew, but with trusted users who can give everyone an equal and fair challenge.

    We could begin with Red/Blue. No glitches allowed and timeframes would be at the discretion of each individual (1000x maximum) and all glitches/cheats would be forbidden.

    If you're competent enough to know how to complete the game in a reasonable amount of time and in a swift fashion, let us all see who can whiz through these games the fastest. Proof in one way or another would be required.
  19. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,508
    I've managed ~4.5 hours with Samurott. Swords dance allows you to beat the E4 quicker than the other starters. Also, make sure you play in Winter; thereby reducing Twist Mountain to a 5 minute distraction.

    Soft reset for 21/11/10/12/10/10 Oshawott (not difficult as this only guarantees IVs of 10/10/10/14/10/10) with a neutral nature or the equivalent with -SpD. It's important not to settle for -SpA because you need water gun to 2HKO a bunch of stuff early on. Bear in mind that torrent water gun is your best option before the first gym.

    Remember to pick up the X Defend next to the girl who gives you Simisear and the Eviolite before taking on the bug gym; Leavanny is the toughest battle all game.
  20. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    348
    I used to speedrun. Then I got discouraged by the people that did it for real.

    Seriously, RSE has got to be some of the hardest shit to run because Wattson and Norman are just that freaking difficult without proper grinding. Tate and Liza aren't that hard with an overleveled Swampert spamming Surf...just make sure you wipe out Solrock with extreme prejudice before it rips off a Solarbeam. (How to do this: Target Xatu first, as Claydol really can't do much on offense.)
  21. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Messages:
    458
    Wattson ? Hard ? Oo
  22. Deinosaur

    Deinosaur GO GOOMY

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    595
    This actually sounds like it would be a great deal of fun. Although, I have never actually played Red or Blue before, so I would obviously not be a good pick for a race such as this. But if you cannot get all the users you wish to get, we could have a somewhat smaller "silver bracket" for people with less experience in the game.

    I always enjoy watching games played in large groups with that one or two people fighting each other not to get last. :>
  23. Perfect Cell

    Perfect Cell

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    477
    I've been thinking about doing a Speed run of Pokemon Red after I transfer my stuff to Pokemon Stadium 2. I'm going to try to finish the game within 5 hours max.

    I've heard Charizard and Nidoking are good pokemon to have for speed runs, what does everyone else think?
  24. Robcore™

    Robcore™

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    183
    I've recently done my first speed-run on Pokémon Red, something to keep me occupied whilst I travelled to my holiday destination, and found that I actually really enjoyed it and almost surprised myself how much I remember about Gen I (I was 11 when I last seriously played them, am nearly 23 now). What I will say is that I don't think there is a better starter than Squirtle to do the speed run with, only possibly Charizard could be if you overlevelled it early on to beat Brock and Misty as you don't want to be spending time training something disposeable up.

    I beat the game (well, my first Hall of Fame was at 3:57 which I don't think is brilliant, especially considering I could've easily knocked half an hour off of it had I been a bit more clued up) thanks to Blastoise and Dugtrio, both were underleveled really. What I found is that speed is pretty much the killer - I do not remember Slash criticalling every single time on Dugtrio back then - along with the use of the stat up items such as X-Accuracy.

    I finished up with a Lv55 Blastoise and a Lv44 Dugtrio which defeated the Elite Four and Gary. Blastoise was.. incredible to use, especially had I found Mega Punch and not had to rely on Bite, definitely when I realised just.. how broken the game really is. Seriously, I swept Lorelei and Gary using an X-Accuracy, an X-Speed and Fissure; it just didn't miss. Surf with X-Accuracy and X-Special crippled Bruno and Lance, and my Digging Dugtrio defeated Agatha on his own despite being underlevelled considerably.

    Definitely going to attempt another one in the near future, I'm considering giving Charmander a try to see as I spent a bit too long trying to find a Dugtrio in Vermillion (despite using Repel and my Lv28 Wartortle) which wouldn't be necessary if I had a Charmeleon to battle Surge with, although I guess Misty would be horrible to deal with.
    =]
  25. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,024
    I apologise for not responding these last couple of days, as I have had business to attend to.

    Well I began working on a Leaf Green speed-run on my Playbook, and after discovering I left my tablet on all night, the duration of time took my clock well into overtime and so my speed run came to an end.

    I actually intended for this challenge to be taken place on IRC's #OI and its members, with no more than two hours or so of their spare time, gather in a sprint to the champion battle of any version we all agree to sit and play on.

    You will need the following:
    ~ Skype
    ~ VBA Emulator
    ~ IRC access

    I will lay out the ground rules and specifics if there is enough interest amongst several\half a dozen users.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)