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The Everything Eli Manning Thread - Overrated Edition

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by DM, Apr 29, 2012.

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  1. Nozizaki

    Nozizaki

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    Yes I am. It was a down year for us as far as Draftees go. I followed Jenkins, Jaye Howard, Brantley and Thompson closely. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with Brantley, he is actually pretty good when surrounded with talent, but he didn't have that at Florida. The Ravens have a good O-Line and some nice receivers, gives him a chance in the Preseason. Thompson will be a good special teams contributor, but his hands need A LOT of work. Originally a DB, never a true WR.
  2. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    Soo my Panthers....I guess their draft was "alright". B+ overall. I actually like the Luke Kuechly(sp? cba to look it up) pick up, with Thomas Davis consistently injured and coming back from his 3rd ACL, I really feel as if we have a great shot LB Core now. Their 2nd round pick wasn't needed though, passing up someone like Hill or Jeffries after missing out on Jenkins, was kinda dumb. Not picking up a CB or DT where we need it the most is stupid, but hey...Ron Edwards is back and we got two DT's last year who need to develop. Adams in the 4th addresses our Punt Return needs and he's a nice fast guy who could really put more depth on our receiving core. :)
  3. YTP

    YTP

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    What a nice pickup in UDFA:

    DB Chad Faulcon (love that name) 6'1 200 Pounds 4.43 40

    Could be a beast with Mike Nolan molding him.

    --

    Also this Bradie Ewing guy looks a lot like John Kuhn o.o

    Gonna be a fun year smashing some Panties, Succs, and Aints.
  4. Ancien Régime

    Ancien Régime capitalism delenda est
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    okay guys, we have 2 choices to use our 4th round pick

    1: a QB to be a solid backup behind our franchise guy, who was considered to have 2nd round value, who can be traded for a 2nd rounder down the road
    2: a position of "need" that likely will be buried on the bench and wash out by the end of his contract because he's really a 5-7th round caliber prospect

    gee choice A is so awful, trading a 2012 4th for a 2014 2nd or 3rd, while choice B that likely gets you nothing makes so much more sense

    Redskins had a B+ at *worst*, the problem is that he wasn't one of the "top players available" according to that little draft board thingy so people thought we reached for guys.
  5. Nozizaki

    Nozizaki

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    For a team like the Redskins, the most important thing would be to fill 4 or 5 holes. You guys aren't ready to make the playoffs, but a year under RG3's belt and another draft and maybe.
  6. TuckAndRolle

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    For Cousins to be traded down the road, he'd need to play regular season games. Which, unless Griffin gets hurt or the Redskins go into the end of the season with nothing to play for, won't happen. And then he'd need to play well to generate interest. Drafting Cousins just to trade him down the road would be stupid.

    I don't think it's actually that bad of a move though. I'm guessing the Redskins must have had him very high on their draft boards to draft him, and there's nothing wrong with developing a backup QB with a late pick as insurance in case Griffin gets injured or something. They have holes they could've filled or build up depth, but if the Skins saw him as a 2nd round prospect or something, that's great value.
  7. Wikey

    Wikey

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    I just can't stand that the second a team makes a pick people don't agree with everyone else they could have taken that spot is a pro-bowler. People need to stop doing this. The deeper you go into the draft the more freedom you have with picks because the guys you aren't taking are far from sure things.
  8. Killah

    Killah

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    No one is saying this. There is no such thing as a "wrong" pick. I personally was strongly opposed to it, for the reasons I listed plus a couple others. I do not think it will be worth it because he will be only potential trade fodder, or at best, a potential serviceable/good backup quarterback and then trade fodder. I believe that most any potential starting or good depth player is worth more than potential backup/fodder, but this is only an opinion. Obviously, I don't mean this in *every* case; if the Packers had gotten the #1 pick, they would have used Luck for trade fodder, but in a case like the Redskins where they are lacking picks for the future I believe they should have spent one here at a different position.

    Perhaps as you can tell, I have never been a fan of teams that draft mainly on talent and rarely on need; you need balance to be successful.



    This, on the other hand, is insinuating the opposite. Are you implying that every pick not made in the top 100 is doomed to fail in the NFL? Unless, of course, all the 1st-4th round prospects were drafted in the top 100. Also found it ironic that you mentioned the "little draft board thingy" in the same post.



    Here's a fact for everyone: Drafting isn't a science. It's a crapshoot. Some people can make their own luck, some can find gems deep in the draft while failing early in the draft, and some people just plain suck at it. Dumb picks have brilliant careers, smart picks blow up in their respective teams' faces, some teams overpay based on things like combine performances, and the scouts are all people that work for this one event all year long and still suck at it. Hell, I was reading an article the other day about how Belichick, possibly the smartest drafter this century, is something ridiculous like 2/14 on 2nd round draft successes/busts in the past decade.


    I don't care if Cousins goes on to be the sexiest backup QB since Rodgers and chases RGIII out of town on his way to 8 NFL MVP awards and 6 SB rings; I will still be against this pick, just as I was against the pick for Cam Newton at the time the Panthers drafted him (after the CBA included a rookie wage scale this improved to "grudging acceptance"). I don't pretend to know whether this was a good or a bad pick, I am just dislike the pick and personally believe it will not turn out well.

    Also, for reasons you may have surmised from this post, I think draft grades are really fucking retarded. I'd like to see them banned until 5 years after the fact, where the "experts" can retroactively grade teams based on how well their picks actually turned out, not how well a certain Mr. Kiper thinks they might turn out.
  9. Ancien Régime

    Ancien Régime capitalism delenda est
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    1: drafting to fill needs is fucking retarded outside the 2nd round, and even then it's iffy. drafting to fill needs is how shitty teams stay shitty, because they draft positions instead of drafting the best players. The point I was making was that teams need to draft the players that are highest on their draft board, unless there is literally not a spot for them on the roster (Cousins has a clear spot on our roster, 3rd string/developmental QB and future quality backup). Reaching for needs is how you end up with a string of busts.

    Who should we have taken with that pick btw? Alameda Ta'amu, who will be the 3rd string NT and is actually quite mediocre despite his size because his technique and leverage is shitty, and he has no instincts? Bobby Massie, who is really a RG playing tackle while we run a fucking ZBS? Maybe Jayron Holsey, but if Chase Minnifield is healthy, he's just as good if not better.

    2: Even with that, a 4th round pick isn't going to "fill a hole", it's going to provide a body for competition. So why are we making such a big deal out of it? We actually have a lot of bodies at our weak positions, and we ended up getting quality OL prospects anyway, and uh, fun fact, safety is not that important at all, in that you can have a good defense with mediocre safeties. Also every team has holes, so why chase bad players because they fill a position you need?
  10. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    The problem, AR, is that the Redskins used 3 first-round draft picks and a second rounder to get RG3. That means they spent 5 picks on one teamslot on a team that needs more than just a QB to compete. To use further pokemon references since that's why we're all here, it's like drafting Kyogre then drafting Politoed on the same team.

    If RG3 turns out to be what they think he is, then nobody will care. But based on what's here at this point in time it's pretty hard to say it's not a bad move. In the BEST case, you wasted a 4th round pick on someone who will never play.
  11. Shinryu

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    Well let's be fair, Politoed is good backup if Kyogre goes down and they bring out some other weather changer and you're running like a hardcore rain team...not to mention drafting a Politoed keeps him out of other teams' hands XD

    Anyways his basic point is valid though, in that it is a bit odd to draft another QB, especially when they have Grossman filling the mentor/backup role anyways. Granted it's not like there's a slew of better options that are no less risky, but you'd need RG3 and Grossman to go down pretty badly to even see Cousins start, in which case they'd just as likely be scrambling to see what ok free agent QBs are still available. I saw somewhere bring up the whole "develop and trade" thing like how the Packers developed and traded several QBs while Favre was playing, but that isn't exactly that great of a model unless you have some desperate hungry teams needing QBs.
  12. Wikey

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    Grossman is on a one year contract. Now is the perfect time to bring in a backup so that he has a year to learn the offense without having to play at all since we have Grossman. Then we can pet Grossman go and hopefully we are set at the QB position for years.

    This is seriously the least important story from the draft that is getting blown out of proportion because people are obsessed with the QB position and with Griffin. And the Redskins have a history of being a source for brainless drama.
  13. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    But you will always have desperate hungry teams needing QBs. This is the reason Kevin Kolb got a nice contract based on ONE game's performance that wasn't even spectacular (it was slightly above average). I could think of probably at least 8 teams off the top of my head that are in "desperate" need of a QB (whether they know it or not), and that's 1/4th of the entire league! This is a continuous thing from season to season too, with the teams changing but generally the percentage staying the same. This pattern is why that model has worked and will continue to work, especially with the extreme emphasis on QBs nowadays in a pass-happy league.
  14. Wikey

    Wikey

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  15. Ancien Régime

    Ancien Régime capitalism delenda est
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  16. Stallion

    Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good!
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    Jesus Christ that's tragic. Suicide? Thoughts go out to his family and his gf, RIP.


    In response to Bounty Gate, I'm surprised that Vilma got that long but I'm pretty happy about it!
  17. TuckAndRolle

    TuckAndRolle

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  18. DM

    DM Ce soir, on va danser.
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    Huge loss. I love how he thinks he'll be back by October when the normal healing time for that injury is 11 months.
  19. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    He went to ball so hard university, duh
  20. yondie

    yondie I feel a little bit, like, I'm the Braveheart of creativity.
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    hey ravens fans, at least courtney upshaw was drafted as your first pick right???
    :P
  21. Nozizaki

    Nozizaki

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    Partial tear, but yeah. He'll probably be back for the playoffs? He won't be in as good of shape...
  22. YTP

    YTP

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    it's ok because that only assures a falcons texans superbowl
  23. Dubby

    Dubby

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    Let's not make jokes please.
  24. YTP

    YTP

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    ??? where do you see jokes?
  25. some hero

    some hero

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    Well, my first post has to be about the one, the only.... Eli Manning! It shouldn't surprise anyone though. Anyways, guys read this article:


    http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

    And you guys still doubt him? In 2011, Eli had the second best quaterback performance. He was better than Brees and only Rodgers outplayed him. What other quaterback can pass for 4900 yards with no running game and under pressure pretty much every play? Brees had a great rushing attack and great receivers with a good O line.

    Which is why i place Eli as the fith best quaterback. No other qb did so much with basically nothing. If(and this is a big if) Wilson works and his O line gets to the mediocre level, at the very least, Eli should be the most dominant quaterback this year. However that's unlikely and i expect him to play at this level but get looked over in favor of qbs with (seemingly) better numbers *cough* Average Romo *cough*.


    Osi to the Ravens?
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