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All Gens The Most Dominant Pokemon in History - #9-10 Position Debate

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jellicent, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    Alright, folks, I figured I'd kick off a new discussion for us :3

    I thought it would be fun to figure out what Pokemon did the most to shape the RBY, GSC, ADV, and DPP metas. A top 10 list of sorts, where we as a community could vote in those Pokemon that really stand the test of time. First gen Pokemon will likely carry the most weight here, as they've had the most opportunities to define metagames. That doesn't mean that Pokemon from later generations can't be included, however~

    OP (open)
    To start things off, we'll want a pool of Pokemon to choose from. We'll kick this off with a nomination stage. If there's a Pokemon that you feel has been among the most dominant in history, you can nominate them here. Don't just say "Snorlax" and call it a day, though. I wanna see some reasoning behind these nominations. If something is already nominated, there's no need to nominate it further; it'll be added to the pool. Once we have a good variety to work with, we can get into the nitty gritty of just which of these are best :P

    For now, let the nominations begin ^.^

    Current list:

    1) Snorlax
    2) Tyranitar
    3) Zapdos
    4) Gengar
    5) Starmie
    6) Skarmory
    7) Suicune
    8) Celebi
    9)
    10)
  2. Borat

    Borat

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    Snorlax, Zapdos, Starmie, Gengar, Chansey, Skarmory. In that order.

    I don't think Snorlax has any competition if we're not factoring in gen 5.
  3. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I'd honestly put Tyranitar at the top. It doesn't exist in Gen 1, but in Gen 2 it is a top OU. It is the best combination of mixed attacker, Pursuit trapper, Snorlax check, and Phazer out there, it fills so many holes a team could have on both offense and defense. Gens 3-5 are utterly dominated by it, I barely need to mention the plurality of sets and roles it has and how effective it is at all of them. So that makes all 4 gens in which it appears as a top-OU.
  4. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Tyranitar has been top OU in all the gens, especially in ADV (#1), DP (top 5 easily) and BW (same than DP).
    Starmie, Gengar, Chansey/Blissey, Zapdos, Skarm are good options too
  5. SpecsX

    SpecsX

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    I assume this is OU and not Ubers, so here are my picks:
    Blissey, Skarmory, Jirachi, Zapdos, Starmie, Tyranitar, Gengar, and Snorlax. I can't think of any more at the moment. I'll probably edit my post later to include why my picks should be included.
  6. Pokémon Trainer R

    Pokémon Trainer R

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    Since the topic creator never specified that this thread is limited only to OU Pokémon, then I vote for Mewtwo.
  7. Urza

    Urza

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    I think it'd be interesting to do this by Gen. What ruled gen 1, 2, etc...and easier to specify. I don't think we can dispute Curselax as the top of gen 2, or crocune for gen 3, for example.
  8. crashandcortex

    crashandcortex

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    I assumed this was on a Generation basis until I saw people posting overall nominations, but either way, here we go:

    Snorlax: Top OU in Gen 1, singlehandedly defined the Gen 2 and 3 metagames and still managed to stay in OU in Gen 4 despite its now faltering presence.

    Starmie: Literally a top Pokemon in every single generation and can easily adapt to whatever role it wants. Over it's time, it's been a Rapid Spinner, a fast Thunder Waver, a devastating Life Orb attacker, a weather abuser, you name it. I'd argue this is probably the biggest one, as he's never ever actually fell below OU, but at the same time he hasn't been quite AS game-changing as stuff like Gen 3 Tyranitar or Gen 2 Snorlax.

    Gengar: Pretty much everything mentioned above with Starmie, only a Spinblocker instead of a Rapid Spinner.

    Tyranitar: OK scrap what I said about Starmie, THIS is the big one. A top tier Gen 2 mon with so many possibilities, and it only got BETTER over time with Sand Stream, Dragon Dance, physical Dark STAB (particularly with Pursuit) and the prominence of weather today. Even at it's WORST it's still a top tier Pokemon and it hasn't at all faltered, it's stayed within the Top 10 for every generation since its introduction, and honestly THAT is amazing imo.

    Skarmory and Blissey: Pairing these together as they were both introduced at the same time, both cover both sides of the defensive spectrum and both are equally influential in the prominence of mixed attacking and are still popular today. This definitely deserves a mention.
  9. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Forretress seems to be a popular pick, wielding two desirable utilities (spin/spikes) at the same time while being a sturdy physical wall.
  10. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    not sure if we're supposed to be including gen 5 or not... for gens 1-4, snorlax is easily the most dominant overall. probably the 3rd best pokemon in rby, somewhere between 4th-7th in adv, and ridiculous in gsc. tyranitar is pretty much indisputably the best thing in adv, but nothing is as commanding as gsc snorlax. meanwhile, while snorlax may be a little less useful in dp, it's still used more than tyranitar is in rby!

    after those two i'd probably go with zapdos, then starmie. i think umby raises a good point with forretress, and i'd almost like to put it at 5th considering how popular it has retrospectively become in adv, but skarm is probably still more popular overall in each gen and is easily better until gen 4 (and gen 4 is close). i guess gengar is #5 but i really do not see it as being on the same level as those 4. i think dragonite is an interesting pokemon to look at for that #5 spot also, since it is really good in gens 1 and 4. if we ARE considering gen 5 as well, i think dragonite should definitely get into the top 5.
  11. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    Just to clarify, this is for OU, not Ubers. If something made the jump to Ubers (Salamence in DPP, for instance), it can still be considered for the OU presence it had. Also, we're just nominating mons for now, so if something is already nominated, there's no need to repeat it; it'll be in the pool.

    Gonna take this moment to nominate Jolteon. JoltWak was solid in GSC, Jolt was a great BPer in ADV, and GyaraJolt was quite effective in DPP. While it was never the most dominant force in those metas, it was consistently a strong presence and might crack the top 10 for overall~
  12. SpecsX

    SpecsX

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    Ok, well are we including 5th gen in this as well? I think we should at least include the BW metagame, if not BW2.
  13. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    This will only be focusing on the past generations, so just RBY, GSC, ADV, and DPP.
  14. SpecsX

    SpecsX

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    Blissey, Skarmory, Zapdos, Starmie, Tyranitar, Gengar, and Snorlax, for the reasons mentioned. Forretress should also get a mention. Perhaps Salamence, Celebi, and Dugtrio might be worth a look.
  15. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    Ruiner of Alph

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    Nominations will be ending in about 24 hours, so if there is anything else you'd like to see in the pool of potential top 10 Pokes, now's the time to nom them~
  16. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    1. Tyranitar
    2. Snorlax
    3. Zapdos

    Thats top 3
  17. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Well, they're not close to being #1 most dominant, but there's a couple more Pokemon worth mentioning in the making of the top 10 list.

    -Suicune: A defensive juggernaut in GSC, in ADV and DPP it's one of the premier Calm Mind sweepers.

    -Vaporeon: It's not very good in RBY (though it can Haze Slowbro for what that's worth) and took a long time for people to realize how good it was in GSC, but it's the premier Growth sweeper in Gen 2 and an excellent defensive support Pokemon with access to Wish in Gens 3 and 4

    -Celebi: Once upon a time it was the premier Heal Beller in GSC OU, and it was ultimately deemed too good for OU (well actually Snorlax is better than it but Celebi was more unhealthy for the metagame, whatever). It's also top-tier OU in ADV and a good hybrid offensive/defensive mon in DPP.

    Gonna reiterate the Steel-types here: Skarmory and Forretress.

    Also reiterating Salamence.
  18. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Definitely Zapdos and Tyranitar in the top two spots. Snorlax I'd give third. While the former have been pretty considerable threats in every gen since they've been introduced, apparently Snorlax's prowess dropped a bit in recent ADV and in DPP.
  19. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    Snorlax, Zapdos, Tyranitar, Skarmory, and Starmie, Forretress, Blissey, and Gengar have all been mentioned several times before so I won't spend too much time on them. They've been OU since they existed, enough said. Even though it wasn't introduced until gen 3, I'd like to put Jirachi out there as well, as it has not only been OU, but on top of usage stats since its existance.

    That's 9 pokemon if my math is right. Since we're looking for a top 10 list or something similar, I'll throw a couple of options for the 10th slot. Celebi, Salamence, and Suicune all make great pokemon. OU since existing, and Salamence actually got booted to ubers in DPP. If it had better STAB Than HP Flying in Adv, it probably would have been ubers in Adv too. Celebi and Suicune were great walls in GSC, and threatening sweepers in any metagame after.

    I'll spend the bulk of my post on some underappreciated pokemon. Despite their existance for only one metagame, I feel that Rotom and Heatran deserve a mention somewhere as well. Even if it's just "honorable mention", they deserve some love. The only existed for DPP, but they DEFINED that metagame. Rotom was the spinblocker in DPP. Heatran was the anti-meta pokemon, it was top 5 all throughout the metagame starting with just DP, and eventually jumepd up to number one overall after Scizor received Bullet Punch. So despite their lack of existance, since we're talking in shaping the metagame, these two both played huge parts in shaping the DPP metagame, too huge to overlook in my opinion.
  20. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Snorlax
    Zapdos
    Celebi
    Tyranitar
    Starmie
    Gengar
    Suicune
    Blissey (Chansey)
    Skarmory
    Salamence I guess

    But really its all about the top 6. Snorlax is unequivocally the best and most consistent. Zapdos would be close but it had a somewhat meagre beginning in RBY. Celebi trumps Tar because, even though Tar is slightly better in gen 3 (its a miniscule difference in capability), I know next to nothing about gen 4 and gen 2 Celebi managed to get banned, so I guess Celebi wins. Starmie and Gar are close, but Starmie has had a more consistently stellar (forgive the pun) presence between gens, whereas Gengar has been a bit more erratic. Anything else past these pokes I feel simply does not quite live up to the standards that these 6 have set.

    TPO3, as for your Salamence point, its not the fact that Mences STAB was Flying in Adv- in fact, Flying works out really well for him and gives him a good degree of coverage (and allows him to be one of the few hera checks that exist), and he wouldn't really gain anything from having physical Dragon STAB. Nay, what Adv Mence misses is high power STAB moves to rip a tier to pieces. Just imagine Mence with Aeroblast, for example. Milotic wouldn't even be close to a check, Swampert and Suicune would be shaky at best, Banded Aeroblast would easily 2HKO Forretress, of all things, and you still can't use Skarmory for fear of Fire Blast...it'd just be ridiculous. HP Flying is just enough to keep Mence constrained to being a good, unbroken mon. Somehow Gamefreak managed to draw the line perfectly on how close they can make a pokemon to broken without making it broken at all, a first for everything I guess.
  21. Hangover

    Hangover

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    I think that Tyranitar is the top 1, but i will like to nominate also Jirachi. This guy is very effective in ADV as a Solid Cm, DPP as a good RK and CM, and in BW checking things like the Lati@s, Thundurus-T and some more.
  22. Ghostbone

    Ghostbone

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    I think Alakazam needs more love, being a defining force in the first 3 gens, as anything that isn't a dark type or named blissey or snorlax would find it extremely difficult to take on. It kinda lost out in gen4 but its presence in the earlier metagames makes up for it imo.
  23. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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    With nominations now over, we're left with a pool of Pokemon to vote on. First, we'll be voting for the coveted #1 position. Our pool of Pokemon:

    Snorlax, Zapdos, Starmie, Gengar, Chansey, Skarmory, Tyranitar, Blissey, Jirachi, Suicune, Forretress, Dragonite, Jolteon, Salamence, Celebi, Dugtrio, Vaporeon, Rotom-A, Heatran, Scizor, Swampert, Alakazam

    Be sure to post reasons behind why this Pokemon is the most dominate of the four generations! I now open this up to debate :P
  24. M Dragon

    M Dragon The north wind
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    Tyranitar.
    This pokemon has been top OU in every gen (if it wasnt because DP it would be snorlax).

    In GSC it was the best pursuiter, and a good curser and mixed sweeper.

    In ADV it was the best mon. It could be one of the best hard hitters (cb), or the best late game sweeper (dd), or a great wall breaker (sub sets), or a great supporter pursuiting ghosts and it can also easily lure the counters of its main sets. It also had sandstream, something that was very helpfull for stall teams.

    In DP its one of the best mons in this metagame (top 3 at least). Scarf is everywhere, so stalls can trap the most common ghost (rotom-a) and the most common spinner (starm). CB is still a monster that can 2hko everything, and DD is still a very dangerous late game threat.
  25. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    I don't think later gen Pokemon should lose out if their dominance in their lifespan was strong enough. Especially in the case of Tyranitar, who has been one of the most game influencing threats with each of its iterations. That's like omitting the newer player from the All-Star game because he hasn't been in the game as long as the veterans, though his stats and accomplishments clearly hold as much weight, if not more, as his elders'.

    Still sticking with Zapdos and Tyranitar to fight it out for the top spot. Tyranitar has already been mentioned, but Zapdos's unique typing and power have made it very particular threat in each gen, allowing it to launch a powerful offense from a (mostly) defensive position. Having both good offensive and utility moves makes it surprisingly versatile.

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