Th JelliThorn core can reliably beat Tentacruel if it is paried with Landorus-I. Landy also handles the cores other problems, like Virizion and Breloom.
Well, Icecream, how common something is does kind of impact viability. In fact, it plays quite a large role. For example, Rain is very common nowadays, so most people often pack numerous rain checks, and things neutered by Rain have become less viable. Infernape is a prime example, since it has become less potent due to Rains omnipresence, and it's viability dropped as a result. Similar cases can be made for things like how Scizors high usage makes being pursuit weak a serious issue.Can you not read carefully? It says after Stealth Rock.
Also just because it isn't common doesn't mean it doesn't exist, we don't base viability off of usage.
Very true; I didn't mean to imply that at all. Underused things can actually be great. But since it's not common, it's usually not something you need to prepare for. Going back to my Infernape example, nowadays it's used much less because of Rain. As a result, most people don't take it into account when building teams, or at least, they don't account for it as much as before. It COULD be a threat, but since it isn't used much, people don't need to account for it. The thing is, if something isn't common, then it doesn't affect the viability of other pokemon.You're interpreting it wrong. I mean that just because something isn't as much doesn't mean it won't work or it isn't an option. Take Amoonguss for example, i'm sure you'll vouch for that.
First off, reuniclus is only truly walled by a few pokemon (Metagross, Jirachi and bronzong). Jirachi, metagross that run EQ and bronzong can all be handled by air balloon heatran. The rest of the tier is smashed by its power and "speed" in Trick room. Gyarados can outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a DD and while the SR weakness hurts, other A-Rankers like salamence and kyurem share this weakness. Gyarados's typng also allows it to be the best offensive special landorus and keldeo check, as well as a great check to breloom (after sleep clause has been activated).I don't agree with Reni in A-rank, it's stopped way too easily and is walled by quite a few threats. Also don't agree with Gyarados in A-rank, Gyarados has that SR weakness and is still terribly slow even after a Dragon Dance making it incredibly easy to revenge kill.
That's pretty much a lot of the ideas going for Weavile in B-Rank. It is not the perfect Dragon-slayer like Mamoswine is but Pursuit trapping support AND the ability to handle Dragons is invaluable in the current meta and gives a lot of offensive utility. Weavile for B-Rank definitely.Now let's move on to propositions for changes in ranking. First I need to really promote Weavile to B-Rank. Weavile synergizes really well with top-threats nowadays and is incredibly helpful on Hyper Offensive teams. Weavile can take out the main threats to extremely powerful pokemon such as Breloom and Keldeo letting them plow through the opposition. Weavile's second duty is the ability to slay dragons. Even though Mamoswine can fulfill the role of it better, Weavile is still damn good in beating Landrous/Dragons well. Weavile can really put a stop to some pokemon and is a strong check to pokemon in the meta while offering pursuit trapping support at the same time. Breloom/Weavile/Keldeo is a really strong offensive core nowadays and i think this warrants it at B-Rank
Unlike mamoswine, weavile is bait for scizor, CS fighting types and conkeldurr. Weavile also has a SR weakness meaning that it cannot swith in and out. Its so frail, that it can only come in after something has died, or it will get OHKO'd. While I do agree its low B-Rank, it will cannot be A-Rank or top B-Rank because of low base power moves, common weakness and low defenses.Weavile is almost bordering A-Rank in my honest opinion if Mamoswine is up there as well. Weavile is a HUGE threat to a good majority of the OU Metagame thanks to STAB Ice Shard alone. Weavile can play Offensive , Revenge Killer , and Trapper all in one set. That definitely calls for some attention here people.
True in every word, though both of the other have better typing, abilities, utility, and just right diversity.But if you look at it, Mamoswine and Tyranitar, two "similar" Pokemon suffer those issues as well. Weavile is blessed with the ability to be the Dragon Slaying, Revenge Killer just like Mamoswine ; but at the same time, he's a Psychic/Ghost killer using Night Slash and Pursuit. His ability to function in OU as trapper and revenge killer is phenominal in this metagame. With his functions, he technically breaks past the "overshadowed by" fault.
TBH, I just want to see Weavile climb up as he really is so dangerous as of now.
Scizor and mamoswine can check most of those pokemon, while having the ability to switch in to attacks. It doesn't deserve C-Rank at all, but rather low B-rank. Stuff like toxicroak, keldeo and scizor wall this guy all day, especially when his main STAB move is weaker than E-vire's T-punch. Also Breloom can take an ice shard and KO with mach punch.C-Rank? I understand not throwing it into A-Rank but C-Rank?
Tell me. Who can successfully check Lati@s, Landorus, Landorus-T, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, Gliscor, Terrakion, Jellicent, Celebi , Gengar, Salamence, Garchomp, Alakazam, Breloom and so forth? Weavile has huge potential in being able to stop so many top tier OU Threats right in their tracks. That alone should be enough to put him in B-Rank. He brings so much support offensively for top Pokemon such as Keldeo and Breloom.
C-Rank? Please.
I think this fits Weavile quite perfectly. It does have very good uses, as already mentioned, in being able to destroy a large number of threats with the valuable Ice Shard as well as being able to support a varity of mons (Landorus, Keldeo, etc.) with its Pursuit. Weavile is arguably outclassed by a few Pokemon which are broken into two categories: the dragon-slayers and the trappers. Mamoswine supposedly is a lot better than Weavile due to its Ice-type attacking and Pursuit mons like Tyranitar and Scizor and supposedly better at Weavile at trapping Ghosts and Psychics. What Weavile does possess, however, that they don't, is the ability to do both of these roles at once. It can also run a variety of sets such as Choiced of LO'd as well as being able to use Expert Belt very well due to its moves to feign a Choice set. Easily B rank material.B Rank said:Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
Mamoswine is capable of checking literally all of them except for Gengar, Terrakion, Alakazam, and Jellicient. Another problem occurs when you realize that Gengar behind a Substitute beats it (considering they all run subs generally it is easy to get one up on the switch), Scarf Terrakion or a boosted one destroys Weavile and OHKOs it with literally every move it has, Jellicient can take a Night Slash and burn Weavile, and Sash Alakazam has an easy time with Weavile, assuming Focus Miss hits. It can't reliably stop any of those 4, really. Against random targets, Icicle Crash and Earthquake are stronger than what Weavile has for STABs.C-Rank? I understand not throwing it into A-Rank but C-Rank?
Tell me. Who can successfully check Lati@s, Landorus, Landorus-T, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, Gliscor, Terrakion, Jellicent, Celebi , Gengar, Salamence, Garchomp, Alakazam, Breloom and so forth? Weavile has huge potential in being able to stop so many top tier OU Threats right in their tracks. That alone should be enough to put him in B-Rank. He brings so much support offensively for top Pokemon such as Keldeo and Breloom.
C-Rank? Please.
As madcargo said, Scizor and Mamo can take care of most of these threats as it is. Weavile requires too much support for my liking to be in B-tier, although I guess I understand people's opinions on him moving up a tier. I simply disagree since it can't take a hit and needs rapid spin support or a Magic Bouncer to keep SR off the field so that it's sash isn't broken.C-Rank? I understand not throwing it into A-Rank but C-Rank?
Tell me. Who can successfully check Lati@s, Landorus, Landorus-T, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, Gliscor, Terrakion, Jellicent, Celebi , Gengar, Salamence, Garchomp, Alakazam, Breloom and so forth? Weavile has huge potential in being able to stop so many top tier OU Threats right in their tracks. That alone should be enough to put him in B-Rank. He brings so much support offensively for top Pokemon such as Keldeo and Breloom.
C-Rank? Please.
I agree with Issues, Weavile is B-rank material.
B Ranking Material
- Extremely useful niche stabs, hitting 15 of 30 in S/ A ranking.
- Outspeeds all base 108 that roam OU.
- Checks Landorus the most potent sweeper.
- Is outclassed by Mamoswine and usually set up bait for defensive pokemon that keep it in below A ranking..
Yeah Double-Edge is really underrated on Gyarados, a +1 Life Orb Double-Edge ruins Rotom-W. The Recoil is a massive pain, but Gyarados is usually good at blowing holes in the foes team.Now let's talk about his offensive potential. Yesterday i took offensive Gyarados for a spin, with a set of DD / Waterfall / Ice Fang / Double Edge, max Atk / max HP with an Adamant nature, Intimidate and with Life Orb, and honestly i was shocked... This thing was amazing! It could either be used as a mid-game sweeper, getting a few OHKOes and softening the opponent's team, or as a late game sweeper if the opponent lacked Pokemon that could outspeed Gyarados and threaten it (for example every team that uses Scarf Jirachi).
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I'd like to propose Feraligatr for C-rank or low B-rank. Feraligatr has a niche in OU. It's a monster under rain and a great sweeper with rain boosted Aqua Jet. It's pretty hard to stop at +2. Landorus, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, Gengar, Jolteon, Terrakion and many faster threats all fall to Aqua Jet. To show just how powerful Feraligatr is it does 82.78% - 97.68% to Latios with a +2 Drizzle and Torrent boosted Aqua Jet so it has a pretty good chance of being OHKO'd after Stealth Rock. It has just the right bulk as well so it often goes into Torrent mode. Feraligatr also laughs at physical walls like Skarmory, Landorus-T, Hippowdon and Gliscor. That's something that can't be ignored. Thoughts?
Yeah just a combination of arguments for Feraligatr. Any thoughts on it?Up next, Feraligatr really needs a spot on this viability ranking thread.This is why I petition Feraligatr for C-Rank (maybe even B actually, just because it can really be an asset even in top-level play) Feraligatr is a threat in the meta; no one can deny it at this point. Feraligatr is an incredibly viable threat in rain teams doing massive damage thanks to Swords Dance boosted Aqua Jets and it's decent coverage. It can also function as a lure to Celebi, Jellicent, and to an extent Lati@s with Crunch allowing it to partner with Keldeo really nicely as well as Thundurus-Therian. Being a solid offensive partner to the most dominant playstyle nowadays is an incredible asset that allows it to be deservant of C-Rank by the very least. As said, it can be used even in the highest level play as gr8astard has shown in OST9 finals (even though that finals was kinda shit). This might actually be enough to warrant B-Rank for it.