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Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.
Fixed! Thanks for pointing that out, i probably never would've noticed it myself x_x.
I want to propose Cradily to be added to Untested.
I think it has enough things going for it to make it usable in RU. I haven't tried it out yet, but intend to do so sometime soon.
The first thing that is good about Cradily is its defenses. 86 / 97 / 107 defenses are good if not great, and access to Recover gives it surviability unlike other things. Its typing is both good and bad, but the addition of Storm Drain makes it a tad better. Storm Drain allows it to take on the many Water-type in the tier much better, and it isn't has threatened by the likes of Slowking and Qwilfish as the other Grass-types due to its Rock typing canceling out its weaknesses to what they usually use for Grass-types; unless Slowking uses Ice Beam for some reason. Storm Drain also boosts its Special Attack, which makes Cradily hit relatively hard as well; 81 SpA is good for a defensive Pokémon. The Rock typing also helps against Cinccino, who has to use its coverage moves to hit Cradily for at least neutral damage. An Electric-type resistance is good as well. Cradily has access to Swords Dance and Curse in its relatively good movepool as well, but I think its defensive capabilities should be highlighted, as I think it can be really difficult to do anything else, besides maybe, just maybe, Curse.
Cradily does have some crippling weaknesses to the common Bug-, Fighting-, and Ice-type moves (and the less common Steel-type moves), but I think its traits are enough to make it usable in the RU tier.
Okay, its been a while since ive updated this, so might as well!
I havent moved anything this time, but there are quite a few proposed changes i need opinions on, plus one im gonna propose myself, here they are!
Vanilluxe up from untested -----> C rank
Sandslash down from D rank -----> E rank
Roselia up from C rank -----> B rank
adding Cradily to untested
im going to back up scraftyisthebest on Roselia here, its a pretty good defensive pokemon and one of the best options for a bulky spiker (the other being qwilfish, but ill get to that later). Roselia is one of the best checks for special attacking Water and Grass-types alike, basically flipping off common threats such as Omastar, Lilligant, Rotom-C, and special attacking Sceptile with no afterthought. Roselia isnt a sitting duck either, it has a solid base 100 Special Attack stat and the moves to use it with, posing an immediate threat against the pokemon it switches in on. While Roselia does have some flaws that hold it back, such as its mediocre physical bulk and rival in Amoonguss, i feel rose is more than worthy of B rank.
While im at it, i'd also like to nominate Qwilfish for A rank. Qwilfish has always been a great choice in the RU tier, and with the rising popularity of Pokemon such as Entei, Emboar, Escavalier, and Durant, it really gets a chance to shine in this metagame. Qwilfish is one of the best Spikers available in RU, using a combination of its Intimidate and its great defensive typing to switch in multiple times throughout the match to do its job. Taunt gives Qwilfish a valuable weapon against other support Pokemon such as Ferroseed, Smeargle, Clefable, and Spiritomb, stopping them in their tracks by disabling their support moves, it also makes sure Qwilfish isnt set up fodder. Thunder Wave allows Qwilfish to cripple common offensive Pokemon such as Sceptile, Rotom-C, Durant, and Entei for the rest of the match, making them much easier to deal with for Qwilfish's teammates. Qwilfish can also use some other support moves such as Toxic Spikes, Pain Split, and Haze effectively, but struggles to find a moveslot for them. Thanks to Intimidate, Qwilfish can function as an emergency stop to almost any physical attacker, softening their blows temporarily to make it easier for Qwilfish's teammates to dispose of them, which is very useful in a pinch. All in all, Qwilfish is an excellent pokemon in this metagame, and while it does have a few flaws, they are easily overshadowed by its positive traits, and imo, its reasonable for it to be A rank.
I strongly disagree Sandslash in E-tier if only because of the fact that no Pokemon is nearly as bad or useless Munchlax (which just sits there and does nothing) or Metang (lol). Its somewhat usable, and therefore doesn't deserve to be E-Ranked - its just usually outclassed, which makes it D-tier. Honestly, no Pokemon deserves to be moved down to E-tier ever unless they are Munchlax and Metang.
Yeah...I think its been pretty much universally agreed that Sandslash is D minimum and possibly C tier so I don't even get why this change was proposed :/
Moltres should be A rank and not S because of that SR weakness. Moltres' stats and moves are still good enough to not be B though.
Gallade should be S rank because it is such a monstrous Bulk Up sweeper with very few flaws. It only needs to have TS of the field to function properly.
Aside from that, I think that this list is pretty good. :)
Moltres has Roost to mitigate the SR weakness, on top of being a great partner for Kabutops (who spins virtually always).
Gallade IS good but is checked/countered by Moltres if it lacks Stone Edge, Uxie if it lacks Night Slash and is always walled by Tangrowth. Then there's the fact that pokemon with some sort of bulk, higher Speed and a SE attack checks Gallade. Don't get me wrong, Gallade is certainly a scary mon to face at the wrong time, but is checked by many teams, often without trying.
Going to suggest Druddigon for S Rank.
Druddigon is definitely one of the top threats in the current metagame. It's very rare that it doesn't get at least one KO per game. Its resistances are key in many RU matches, handling Pokemon such as Entei, Slowking, Lilligant, and other Fire / Water / Grass mons. Its bulk and typing also causes it to not be easily OHKOed, and the Pokemon that normally use its only two weaknesses cannot switch in. Druddigon can also be somewhat versatile. Things that could normally do well against Druddigon, such as Steelix and Tangrowth, fall to Flamethrower, and Druddigon can 2HKO bulky Waters like Poliwrath and Slowking without locking itself into Outrage with ThunderPunch. Besides a CB or Mixed set on its own, it can also do very well on Trick Room teams or use a bulky set with Glare and Roar. The offensive sets are the best though, and make Druddigon one of the best Pokemon in the metagame imo.
Oh and it gets Stealth Rock and priority (Sucker Punch).
Also I disagree with moving Sandslash to E Rank. Nothing that's in RU besides Munchlax should be in that rank. Sandslash is capable of getting a Rapid Spin off if the opponent doesn't have a Ghost-type, and it can also use Swords Dance and Stone Edge / Night Slash to get past Ghost-types such as Rotom. While it's not that good at its job, Sandslash is indeed viable and is definitely not "atrocious" in RU.
Now that DittoCrow mentions it, I would second Druddigon for S-rank. Druddi is a very versatile Pokemon with three great abilities (mold breaker can be viable) along with good bulk to pull off great defensive sets. Its attacks are hugely powerful, and as stated above, it functions as a nigh-unbeatable threat under TR.
I mean, I guess I am raving about Druddi, but his lack of speed is sometimes unnoticeable when you look at all the help it is giving your team. Even its common walls have to fear a sheer fore, life orb flamethrower, which even with an unimpressive special attack stat, does very well.
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Steelix: 208-247 (58.75 - 69.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 234-281 (80.13 - 96.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO; 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Druddigon Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tangrowth: 268-317 (66.33 - 78.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty scary for these common switch-ins if you ask me.. Some people may be een running more SpA ev's or a boosting nature, whereas these Pokemon become even more endangered by Druddi.
I would like to suggest Bouffalant for A-Rank
Bouffalant I find to be pretty awesome in the metagame, as it is capable of checking a lot of Pokemon and is a huge offensive force. With Sap Sipper, it pretty much completely walls stuff like Lilligant, is immune to Spore and Sleep Powder, and can switch into Leaf Storms easily and get even stronger thanks to Sap Sipper. From there, it can either set up a Substitute or hit really, really hard with a boost from Sap Sipper. A Normal-typing is also pretty cool, as that means Poliwrath actually cannot beat it (it gets 2HKOed). It is also pretty bulky, with its Substitute being able to survive many of the weaker hits of the tier. With a +1 boost, it 2HKOs some bulky Pokemon such as Max/Max Poliwrath and Quagsire, and with a Choice Band and a +1 boost, it 2HKOs some legitimately bulky stuff such as Max/Max Tangrowth and 248/0 Escavalier with its STAB alone.
Behind a Substitute, Bouffalant doesn't really mind Fighting-types that may try to switch in - many of them get OHKOed by Bouffalant after a Close Combat or just straight-up OHKOed in the case of Hitmonlee. It can potentially use Spiritomb, a Ghost-type, as set-up fodder suprisingly enough behind one as it is very bulky, and CB Spiritomb in particular cannot do much against it. As shown, Bouffalant can deal with Steel-types moderately well too, with the probably exception of Steelix. Of course, its pretty slow and gets walled by some things, but I just feel like it is in a good position when compared to the tier, and worthy enough for A.
EDIT: I support Drud for S-Rank too
Ah, Ditto, did you have to let the cat out of the bag? Have been enjoying his anyonimity up until now :D
I don't know if he's fully worthy of being S rank, though, due to his lack of speed and being suseptible to all forms of residual damage.
1)Druddigon is rather slow, topping out at 321 speed SCARFED, and this is a major flaw for him. His speed often torpedo's his good bulk, making him take 1-2 hits before even getting a chance to strike back. If you plan on using him to switch into attacks that generally means the other player has that attack and another move to use to disable or dispatch him from the match. Same if you intend to have him use a support/set up move.
Now you can take that low speed and make it work for you, I certainly do with my team here in RU. I run a TR Uxie to suport him that has U-Turn which allows me to set up TR, get Druddigon in without taking a hit and give him three turns to wreck things. Generally this means 2 pokemon are going down if not three.
That may sound like I'm hyping Druddigon up, and really I guess I am, but remember it requires the support of Uxie to work that well and requires him to run a set that generally wouldn't be an optimal set for Uxie.
2)Druddigon takes all forms of residual damage, which can further negate that nice bulk of his. Druddigon needs every bit of health it can get as it can survive some vicious hits but only if it's near full health in my experience. On top of that the only recovery available to him is leftovers and rest... not that great of options.
I'm not trying to say Druddigon sucks, far from it, but I am trying to be real about him. He's a very strong pokemon probably worthy of an S ranking but he is definitely not without flaws.
Here's a post from October to share my thoughts on the positive side of Druddigon. All in all I do think that Druddigon is worthy of S rank and would have nominated him sooner if he didn't have such glaring weaknessess.
tldr: Druddigon speed can torpedo his bulk, he takes all forms of residual damage with no reliable recovery but I still feel he can is an S ranked 'mon.
Yea I support Druddigon for S, too. Its bulk combined with dragon's resistance to water, fire, grass, and electric moves comes in really handy in RU, allowing even the more offensive variants to check dangerous threats like Sceptile, Entei, and Slowking. Couple that with access to SR and a powerful priority Sucker Punch, and you have a pretty nifty Pokemon. The defensive parashuffling set is also annoying and can be difficult for certain teams to quickly eliminate. I think it's a fair claim that Druddigon is a physical counterpart of Nidoqueen. It's minor flaws that prevent it from being on par with Nidoqueen is its low Speed tier, being slower than even Aggron or Tangrowth - Druddigon performs best with paralysis or Trick Room support. Another flaw is that it's more vulnerable to residual damage than Nidoqueen, since it's neutral to ST and less moves receive free LO boost. It's definitely S-material, though.
Supporting Swamp-Rocket's proposition to move Bouffalant to A rank. It has phenomenal overall bulk; boasting 95/95/95 defenses (which is even better than Druddigon's 77/90/90). Bouffalant can even survive Nidoqueen's Focus Blast 63% of the time (it always survives Sceptile's Focus Blast). And immunity to Spore and other Grass moves is a great utility to wreck Smeargle, Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Lilligant. Bouffalant offers versatile offense to the team, and can be immediately threatening with either a +1 boost from Sap Sipper or setting up its own Swords Dance. Although it's a rather slow mon, it's impressive bulk, offense, and unique ability mix together to create a one formidable tank.
I see what you're getting at. Remember, Slowking is S-rank and he takes all forms of hazard damage (even tho regenerator) an he is incredibly slow, but at the same time is powerful. I believe if Slowking is up there, Druddigon can find a place too, even though they are very different things. Entei has a similar issue with taking hazards, despite it having more speed (less SpD/resistances).
Bouffalant also deserves A-rank. It's sheer power with the help of sap sipper and its awesome bulk make it a very formidable attacker. It lacks speed, but so does Druddigon (and he's S-rank material). Bouffalant is often hard to get around, with its best counter being Rotom (correct me if I'm wrong). He's strong and bulky, but often a little bit predictable, I mean, who wouldn't go far a STAB CB Head Charge?
I completely agree with both of these proposals. Druddigon is without a doubt one of the best Pokemon in the RU metagame. He packs some wonderful resistances, Stealth Rock, good bulk, and high Attack. He can perform two different roles, both of them extremely well: The Parashuffler and the CB set. The parashuffler set is great and can paralyze some of the important opponents on the team, as well as set up SR. He also has Dragon Tail to rack up damage and possibly Glare even more targets. The CB set also ensures that he will at least nab one KO in the match. And with few weaknesses and some good resistances, he has little risk involved and great reward exerted. His flaws, like his pisspoor speed (Druddi says "Hey, at least I'm faster than Escavalier!), and his weakness to Ice, but his power, bulk, and typing more than migitate that. S-Rank for sure.
Afrobull, besides looking awesome, is a fantastic Pokemon in RU. Sap Sipper is a great ability that grants the bull many opportunities to switch in on dangerous things like Lilligant, Rotom-C, and to a lesser extent Sceptile. The Attack boost is invaluable, as he becomes more of a powerhouse and can hit so damn hard it's not even funny. He's slow, but so are Druddigon, Slowking, and Escavalier, who are S-Ranked. He also packs some formidable bulk, and with only one weakness, he'll be sure to take a hit or two. The SD or CB set are both great in this meta. In short, Bouffalant is more than worthy of an A-Rank placement.
Okay, its been about 3 days, so im updating the ranks a little bit, here are the changes that were made :>
Vanilluxe up from untested -----> C rank
Roselia up from C rank -----> B rank
added Cradily to untested
Qwilfish up from B rank -----> A rank
pretty straightforward stuff for the most part, everything except moving sandslash to E rank happened because we all agreed that sandslash was still worthy of D rank no matter how bad it may be, im not sure where Cradily will end up, but im guessing D rank is the most fitting for it, maybe C rank at best (free hippo).
As for the proposed changes, here they are!
Druddigon up from A rank -----> S rank
Bouffalant up from B rank -----> A rank
Supporting Druddigon for sure, ive been using him quite a bit recently, excellent Pokemon with a lot of potential in the tier. With all the FWG cores running around, Druddigon is one of the perfect Pokemon to help deal with these powerful cores, being able to completely counter common mons like Sceptile and Lilligant, while being to check things like Entei, Slowking, and Emboar as well (especially with rough skin!). As an added bonus, Druddigon has a handy resistance to electric-type moves, making scarf Electric-types such as Manectric and Rotom-C much easier to handle. Not to mention that Druddigon gained one of the best moves in the game when BW2 came out (Dragon-type with Stealth Rock, holy shit!). Which only increases its utility as a Pokemon. Druddigon can run multiple sets such as a bulky Stealth Rock setter, a cool paraphaser, a mixed set, and a powerful Choice Bander, which makes it exceptionally hard to play against because you dont know which set its going to be running until its too late. All in all, i think Druddigon is a very powerful and possibly metagame defining threat in this metagame, and i would be happy to award it S rank (lets just try not to make S rank too crowded).
I havent used Bouffalant in a while so i dont know how good it is in this metagame, but SubSD Bouff can be quite the pain in the ass if its given a free turn, its substitutes are hard to break because of its great bulk, and it has more than enough speed to set up a substitute on most of the common defensive Pokemon in the tier. SubSD bouff is also a bitch to offensive teams because if it gets a sub up it becomes really hard to revenge kill, and the opponent will usually have to sac at least one pokemon (usually two) to take it out.
Is Amoonguss going to appear in the list soon?
EDIT: Derp. Didn't see it. And no, I think B is fine for Amoonguss.
its already on this list, its B rank atm, but you can suggest a change in its ranking!
Why is Manectric not A!? Just a question, because I think the description fits him pretty well! "Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the RU metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits."
Manectric definitely can sweep, has lightning-rod to support a few pokemon who are weak to electric attacks with a well-predicted switch. Manectric doesn't require any support! The main flaw, a pretty shallow movepool, can be over-looked when he 2HKO's a lot of the tier with a thunderbolt anyway! He also puts in lots of momentum with a volt switch.
I think there are a few reasons that Manectric is not worthy of being A rank. One, it's very frail, and can only come in to revenge kill opponents or on predicted Electric-type attacks. Second, with the ubiquity of Ground-types in the tier, Manectric has a pretty hard time spamming his STAB moves. This is especially true of Choice Manectric. Third, Manectric unfortunately can NOT sweep, and the other two categories certainly can't apply to it. It lacks any sort of viable boosting move, and it lacks the raw stats needed of Pokemon without a setup move to sweep. Manectric is too prone to being revenge killed or forced out if running the Life Orb set (Sceptile, Nidoqueen, Lanturn, Entei, Aerodactyl, and practically all Choice Scarf Pokemon), and choice locked sets obviously suffer issues of having many Pokemon immune to its STAB moves. It's fine where it is in my opinion.
However, I'd like to open some discussion on Ditto, which I believe is not good enough for B rank. In my eyes, Ditto is a "something or nothing Pokemon" and I can hardly ever find a time where I wish I had Ditto over another Pokemon on my team. We all know that Ditto's claim to fame is being one of the best revenge killers... but just how good of a revenge killer is it really? Let's start with the fact that Ditto's most famous for revenge killing DD Dragons. Well, the only one we have is Fraxure. While Fraxure is a great Pokemon and all, it's certainly not common enough to justify using Ditto over another revenge killer than can KO it such as Jynx, Rotom-F, or other Pokemon with moves powerful enough to KO it. The only other noteable Dragon Dance users are Crawdaunt and Feraligatr. While you can revenge kill Crawdaunt with its own Superpower, ask yourself why aren't you just using Sceptile? Or ANY other choice scarfer for that matter. DD Feraligatr can only be hurt by its own Earthquake, and since the original's will be boosted by Life Orb and Ditto has a lower HP than Feraligatr, it also loses there. Not to mention that Ditto is forced to lock itself into Earthquake, which is terrible with so many things immune to it.
Next, we have the sweepers that Ditto simply can't revenge kill because they boost their offenses at the same time as their defenses, such as Bulk Up Gallade or Calm Mind Sigilyph. Swords Dancers can however be revenge killed, but SD Gallade can pick Ditto off with it's own Shadow Sneak or switch to a Normal-type to prevent the same thing from happening to it. Kabutops also has priority Aqua Jet that will easily outdamage Ditto's thanks to the latter's lack of Life Orb and low HP. I'd much rather use a different Choice Scarfer in these situations, or simply Sceptile.
Apart from being a mediocre revenge killer at best in this tier, Ditto suffers from the fact that he may simply end up being no use to your team whatsoever a large part of the time. Hyper Offense is the only team style it really shines against, and that's basically unheard of in RU, with bulky offense being far, far more common. Stall is another playstyle that Scarf Ditto can do next to nothing against. Not to mention that it offers practically no reliable defensive synergy to your own team, as you can never count on what Pokemon your opponent has or even whether Ditto will get an opportunity to become the one Pokemon on your opponents' team that may be useful to you.
So there are my thoughts on Ditto. C rank in my opinion.
Yeah, I agree with this post.
Anyways, that said, I should've mentioned this earlier, but I'd like to nominate Medicham for B-Rank. I just don't think C-Rank does justice for this pink thingamajig (whatever this thing is.) Either way, Medicham is a very solid threat in RU because it has an Attack stat rivaling Kyurem-B, and its solid Hi Jump Kick backs that up too. With that STAB Hi Jump Kick coming off of essentially 169 Attack, it can hit many things for some serious damage, bar Ghost-types, and tbh all of them either are awful (Dusknoir), or can usually be solved via teammates. Its Psycho Cut can hit Nidoqueen and Rotom for some too. Of course, since it struggles with Ghosts, it sometimes needs Dark-types to help it out, but with Medicham's sheer power, it's more or less a solid B. (How dare a Pokemon who hits harder than Kyurem-B AND has better coverage than it be in the rank of weaklings like Garbodor and Primeape.)
Medicham for B-Rank!
I'd also like to nominate Aggron for A-Rank. Yeah. Aggron is arguably one of the most lethal Pokemon in the RU tier. That Rock head CB Head Smash coming off of that spiky head brings a whole lot of pain to the whole tier. And since Aggron is so heavy, a CB Heavy Slam can hurt those that resist Head Smash. Even with those weaknesses, the sheer power behind Aggron simply cannot be overlooked. Also, if you really want to, Aggron can fill a utility role with Stealth Rock and Sturdy. Aggron's qualities make it more or less an A-Rank imo.
Aggron for A-Rank!
I've not used Aggron enough to have an opinion on it, but I can certainly agree with ScraftyIsTheBest regarding Medicham. It lost one of it's biggest counters when Cofagrigus left the tier, and I'm quite surprised that it isn't used more. Pursuit users are a common sight in RU, with Spiritomb and Absol able to trap the Ghost-types that still lurk the tier, allowing Medicham to spam it's infernal High Jump Kicks. I think that Choice Scarf is the best way to use Medicham, not as a revenge killer (although it does revenge Crawdaunt ;)) but simply as a sweeper. The only Pokemon in RU that can actually switch into it are Uxie and Spiritomb, but Uxie can be Pursuited, and Spritomb is handily disposed of if running a powerful Fire-type such as Emboar or Entei, as it's more or less a free switch in. These two also appreciate the Pursuit support that Medicham likes to remove Slowking, another good switchin to Medicham. The more I think about it, the more an offensvie core of CB Entei, CS Medicham and Absol seems appeaing to me. We have a Choice Scarfer, and two 80 BP priority moves coming off stellar Attack stats... but enough rambling though. Here are some calcs:
Neutral Scarf Medicham HJK vs. 4/0 Exeggutor: 44.57 - 52.71% (2HKO with SR)
Neutral Scarf Medicham Psycho Cut vs. Bulky Rotom: 45.45 - 53.84% (2HKO with SR)
Positive Scarf Medicham HJK vs. 252/252 Tangrowth: 45.45 - 53.84% (2HKO with SR, neutral also has a chance)
Positive Scarf Medicham HJK vs. 212/0 Emboar: 105.79 - 124.63%
These are just a few random calcs. I think I'm going to be going with an Adamant Medicham, as faster Choice Scarfers will be dealt with by Absol and Entei. as you can see, it can cheerfully 2HKO the bulkiest physical wall in the tier that isn't weak to it's STAB with just Stealth Rock support (So in my opinion Choice Band Medicham is not worth it when you already have this kind of power with Scarf) and OHKO one of the bulkiest attackers in the tier without Stealth Rock. I think this speaks for itself really. It may be vulnerable to priority, but that certainly shouldn't prevent Medicham from rising to B rank.
Okay i havent updated this in a few days so im gonna get it done now
Ive made these changes to the ranks:
Druddigon up from A rank -----> S rank
Believe it or not there was a bit of opposition to Bouffalant moving up to A rank on irc, im going to hold off on moving it for now, but its still a proposed change, and is still fully up for discussion, if there is no further opposition for Bouffalant ill move it up tommorow.
Here are the new proposed changes as well.
Aggron up from B rank -----> A rank
Bouffalant up from B rank -----> A rank
Medicham up from C rank -----> B rank
Ditto down from B rank -----> C rank
Im not so sure where Aggron should be because i havent used it that much in this meta, but i personally think that it belongs more in B rank than in A rank. Like most B rank Pokemon, Aggron is a great choice in the RU metagame, but has some notable flaws that keep it from being top tier. Aggron is cursed with a relatively low Speed stat along with 3 very common weaknesses to Water, Ground, and Fighting, which make it harder to switch in Aggron than its 180 Defense stat suggests. Its low speed also makes it quite easy to revenge kill if it doesnt have a Rock Polish boost under its belt, and while its Head Smash is indeed one of the most powerful unboosted attacks in RU, its also one of the most infuriating due to its bad 80% accuracy, which can make or break a game if your unlucky. Dont get me wrong, Aggron is an excellent Pokemon and its surely top B rank, but i dont think that it deserves A rank at the moment.
I was interested in the team idea Cherubagent mentioned yesterday, so i contacted him asap to see if we could flesh out the idea and add on 3 Pokemon to support the core, we finished the team rather quickly and according to CherubAgent it turned out really well, going 31-2 on the mighty PS ladder. I watched a few of Cherub's matches to see Medicham in action and it did pretty well, it cleaned house in quite a few games just by using Scarf Hi Jump Kick to pick off the last 4 or so Pokemon. While Medicham did have some flaws that kept it from sweeping every team it came across, most notably its fraility and vulnerability to priority, along with its weakness to Spiritomb, i think it performed more than well enough to deserve B rank.
(I'm doing this on an ipod so this post is going to suck)
Aggron should definetly stay in b-tier because it has a ton of exploitable flaws. While it is extremely powerful it's crappy special defense, Head Smash's annoying accuracy, 4x weakness to ground and fighting as well as water weakness (scald), make it vulnerable to a lot of things. Its low speed doesn't help these issues any, making it rather easy to revenge kill. While it does have Automize to fix its speed a lot of Choice Scarfers have an easy time out speeding it. It's high power doesn't fix these issues entirely, which makes it worthy for B-Rank.
Set-up sweepers can't be taken advantage of by Ditto very often so c tier is where it should go. Everything was already explained.
I'm indifferent on Medicham. On one hand this thing is insanely powerful and unlike Aggron it's speed is pretty good. However, Gallade gives it a lot of competition thanks to its special bulk (allowing it to go places where Medicham simply cannot), Swords Dance, and a more reliable stab (albiet weaker) in close combat. Medicham is also very vulnerable to Ghosts. However, that immediate power is nothing to scoff at, as it is a lot more powerful than Gallade is. I just don't know if it falls under b or c, though I'm leaning toward b
Ok, im going to suggest something that nobody that knows me would've ever, ever, ever expected me to suggest, so please bear with me (and certain banana dinosaurs are gonna be real pissed, lol).
I would like to propose moving Alomomola up from D rank to C rank
In the past ive made fun of Alomomola, even going as far as berating players for using it at all due to the fact that i thought it was too damn easy to take advantage of (and admittedly, it is set up bait for many things, and thats why im not bringing it up for B rank, lol). But i was trying out some stall/balanced cores lately and my friend august suggested using Alomomola to me, i initially laughed thinking it would be a piece of shit, but it actually turned out doing pretty well. With its new ability Regenerator in the mix, its now much harder to take advantage of Alomomola early game, as it doesnt need to stay in for more than a turn or two from time to time to keep itself healthy, minimizing the amount of time the opponent has to set up. Alomomola's immense physical bulk and ability to pivot in and out due to Regenerator made it golden against pretty much any physical attacker that didnt have a boosting move such as CB Entei, Druddigon, Medicham, Absol (unless it gets hit by like a +4 crit Night Slash), and Rhydon, among other things. Although Alomomola usually didnt do much damage on its own, it certainly pulled its weight with its absolutely gigantic wishes, fully healing many Pokemon on my team such as Roselia, who also took out some of the things that wished to set up on her. On paper Alomomola seems like a good option on hail teams as well, taking hits from common hail threats like hitmonlee and Entei without even trying, while passing around its giant wishes to the hail abusers and its other teammates like Spiritomb as well, who appreciate the support greatly due to their lack of reliable recovery. Obviously even with all its positive traits Alomomola isnt top tier material though, while Regenerator really helps it out, its faults are still there. Spike setters like Ferroseed, Qwilfish, and Roselia can get a free layer of hazards off on Alomomola during the short period its staying in, and things like Swords Dance Gallade and Quiver Dance Lilligant can set up all over her and threaten a sweep, making teammates that can deal with these threats pretty much required if you want to use Alomomola to her full potential. To make matters worse, Alomomola also recieves competition from Poliwrath, Qwilfish, and Slowking as a bulky Water-type, with a combination of her far superior physical bulk, Regenerator, and access to Wish being the things that make her an option over them at all. But nonthenless, i dont think Alomomola is bad enough to be placed in D rank, and i think C rank is more appropriate. I mean, it even fits the definition pretty damn well, take a look!
As the C rank definition suggests, Alomomola has a notable niche in the RU metagame as a wish passer and effective way of beating many of the physical attackers in the tier, especially choice users, thanks to its monster bulk and regenerator.
Alomomola also has notable flaws that prevent it from being a higher tiered pokemon, mainly the ease of which opponents can take advantage of it, and its lacking Special bulk, so this fits the C rank definition as well.
Because of these flaws, Alomomola requires significant support and smart play to work to its full potential, as the C rank definition suggests.
Last but not least, Alomomola recieves significant competition from other bulky water-types like Poliwrath, Qwilfish, and Slowking, who are all easier to fit on a team and possibly check threats that Alomomola cant. So all in all, it fits the C rank definition perfectly imo.
TL;DR: Thoughts on moving up mola to C rank? I used to think it was shit but i tried it a bit and i dont think its as shitty as i previously suggested, that it has a decent niche in the RU metagame, and it fits the C rank definition way better than the D rank one, and therefore should be moved up accordingly.
Now that I think of it, I do think Mola is worthy of C-Rank placement. It is quite decent in RU; it is a bulky water who is also a WishPasser. Alomomola has access to Regenerator; Alomoonguss could work in RU as well. Alomomola can wall the living hell out of Entei, Emboar, Aggron (I guess), Druddigon, Hitmonlee?, Absol, etc. It's a good teammate for Roselia, as previously stated, fully healing it with Wish, allowing it to do its Spike-stacking job much more easily.
Of course, as it was with NU when Snover was there, Mola is a good absorber of hail. Then again, Mola still has its faults in mass setup fodder, no offensive presence, weaknesses to Grass and Electric. And of course, there are other bulky waters out there. But Mola has a niche, and the flaws that make it C. It also has competition as a bulky water. And it is definitely not as bad as Sandslash and Dusknoir (lol at both of them) I think Mola should be C.