The Weather's Nice and Warm:
Introduction:
Welcome to my first RMT guys! That being said, I've been in the competitive battling scene for a while, starting a little over a year ago. Anyways, I lurked in NU for most of the BW scene, although I played some DW OU at the beginning of the round. I found the BW2 metagame pretty interesting and decided to come back to OU. I've always been a big fan of sun and in such a rain/sand infested metagame, sun caught my attention as being a different team style. Anyways. enough about me.
The team is an attempt at balanced sun offense. I'm not a huge fan of HO, but stall isn't really my thing either, so this is an attempt at sun somewhere in between. Sun really needs to keep its members alive in order to fight against rain and sand threats, but I've found that I also need to be ready to sacrifice team members in order to gain an edge, and this team tries to do just that. The team relies on careful switching, sacrificing, and gradual wearing down of the other team before one member can clean everything up.
Now that that's said, onto the team!
Team Building Process:
I wanted to make a sun team, so ninetales was a given.
The first thing I did was select my chloro mon. Gotta take advantage of that sun. I went with classic Venusaur first since he's a sun favorite. Also, Kanto rocks.
Next, I selected my fire type sweeper. Volcarona looked beastly. Quiver dance, boosted fire STAB, and the new giga drain for recovery? Beast.
Now that I had my main sun abusing core down, I wanted to get supporters who could back them with the support they needed. Of course, I thought of Forry. I had used him in the past, and being able to both spin and set up hazards was amazing. Volt switch was also nice to give Venusaur or Volcarona a free switch in.
At this point, I decided to add a Dragon to my team. They're always nice to have, and they provide a lot of useful resistances. Multiscale Dragonite is one of the best bulky dragons out there so it quickly found a home on my team.
Finally, I noticed that everything on my team really appreciated wish support. Thus, I added the newest member. Vaporeon. Baton passing wishes and subs is always nice, and to add onto that, it gets a nice ice beam to abuse. Also, it served as a water-immunity.
OK. First round of team building done! I went out and took a spin with this team and....it sucked. I couldn't deal with opposing fire-types at all. Anything with a strong fire type move basically spelled death for me, especially heatran, and I still ran into problems with rain teams. Dragonite's burden was way too heavy, and I realized Vaporeon's Ice Beam was weak as heck and served almost no legit purpose. Also, I was having problems with fast dragons. I had to rely on revenge killing them with Dragonite at full health, but since I was relying on Dragonite's resistances so much, I couldn't even always rely on him either. So, back to the team!
I'll save you the details. (I tried different versions of vaporeon to no avail. Then Blissey, from CM Blissey to cover my chandelure weakness to standard WishBliss). Finally, I arrived at Jirachi as my support mon. It actually worked out pretty nicely. It had T-wave, Iron head for flinch-haxing, Fire Punch for sun abuse. A nice glue for the team.
I also found Forry's spikes support to be less useful than I had thought it would be, since it didn't affect a lot of mons giving me trouble (Latios, Latias, Rotom-W, the new Therians, etc.) A lot of things were also using my Forry as set-up fodder which I did not like. Ferrothorn would also always end up with another layer of hazards as I ran away, so I switched Forry out for a Donphan. It's what a lot of sun teams run, and it seemed to wall physical threats pretty effectively as well. Priority Ice Shard was also really nice.
All those changes later, and I realized I had just as much of a problem Fire-types as I originally had! (more actually, due to Jirachi). Volcarona was also not pulling its weight on the team. As hesitant as I was to leave it, I replaced it with Heatran, giving my team a nice Fire-type immunity. The steel typing was also really nice, providing a SR neutrality.
Oh Venusaur. How all those Kanto trainers love you. Alas, Venusaur was not carrying its weight. It wasn't bulky enough to take a hit, not fast enough outside of sun, and it had absolutely terrible coverage for a sweeper (OK. not terrible, but it struggled a lot against Dragons). While it doesn't seem like Lilligant would solve the problem, I found that Lilligant actually provided a lot of really decent team support with a fast Sleep Powder (decently fast even outside of sun).
Just because a move is super effective does not mean it will kill something, I realized. Donphan's Ice Shard did pittance against Dragons, and by the time it fought down a Dragon, its life as a physical wall was over. Enter Mamoswine! The original dragon slayer. It also gets access to SR, which is awesome.
Unfortunately, the loss of Donphan meant the loss of a spinner, which hurt my team. A LOT. As much as I hated to do it, I had to send Jirachi away in exchange for Starmie. The original, and best, Rapid Spinner! It's super speed was also really, really nice, as well as its coverage.
Lilligant just wasn't holding up enough for me. It wasn't powerful enough, couldn't pull out a Healing Wish enough, wasn't bulky enough, was definitely FAST enough, but I found that it just wasn't as useful as I thought it would be. So I replaced it with Breloom, who offered more offensive presence while also handling opposing weather inducers nicely.
And that is the long and ridiculous way I got to my team. Now, onto the team!
THE TEAM
changes marked in red
NOTE: PLEASE READ THE LAST POST IN THIS THREAD. (by me) IT HAS IMPORTANT POSSIBLE CHANGES TO THE TEAM THAT I'M CONSIDERING. THANKS! :D
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- SolarBeam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
Ninetales, the beginning of sun. It sucks. Terribly. But with Drought, there's a reason to use it. It's an indispensable member of the team since it provides eternal sunshine. Thus, I have to focus a lot on keeping it alive, and keeping my weather going. The Sunny Day set has worked out best for me. Not a lot of people expect Ninetales to carry Sunny Day on it (since it's a bit repetitive with Drought) and switch their Politoeds straight in, thinking it'll be a safe switch, only to have their weather negated and face a threatened Solarbeam in the face. I use Flamethrower because Ninetales really can't afford a miss. The EVs are standard for Sunny Day Tales. I'm considering switching up the EVs to give better bulk though and switching out Solarbeam for Safeguard or another support move since Ninetales isn't doing much damage anyways (although with 252 SpA, he can 2HKO Thundurus-T).
Breloom @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Low Sweep
Say Hello to my replacement for Lilligant! I was re-evaluating the team after Blue Wooper's suggestions and I realized I wanted something that could completely kill T-tar and Politoed while still offering a good fighting chance outside of those two niche roles. Lilligant did check things like SS Cloyster, Jellicent, etc. However, I realized that the main reason I was using Lilligant, Healing Wish, was not actually helping my team that much. I didn't normally play recklessly and while it helped once in a while against surprise factors, I was usually left wishing Lilligant had done more. So, goodbye Lilligant. Now I had to find a Pokemon who could still keep my weather going, fight like a pro, and counter water types. The whole "must counter these specific Pokemon while not sucking terribly" train of thought didn't leave me with many options. But, I found a Pokemon that seemed just perfect: TechniLoom.
Mach Punch is awesome. Just, awesome. Having the same power as Scizor's Bullet Punch but better Typing. I was actually debating between Scizor and Breloom for this spot, but Breloom won thanks to its Rock resistance. Mach Punch takes care of Terrakion, SS Cloyster, T-tar, and puts serious hurt on most other things. Even resisted, Mach Punch will still pack a punch (pun...pun...punny....)
Bullet Seed is there to help me: 1. kill Gliscor. 2. Kill Politoed. 3. Kill T-tar. 4. Kill Water-types. 5. Hurt things in general. With Technician, Bullet Seed is capable of being more powerful than Focus Punch. With STAB added to that, it's deadly. I keep it on Breloom to hit things hard on a switch, or shoot down Politoeds and other Water types. Apart from that, its mainly just there to continue to weaken the team until either Starmie can use its coverage to clean up, or Dragonite can just cleanly sweep. Notably, Breloom can handle Gliscor and Ferrothorn (under rain), two things Dragonite absolutely detests.
Spore is there because spore is sleep support and that is practically an OHKO with BW mechanics.
Low Sweep is probably the move I'm least sure about. I originally had SD but SD Breloom, while powerful, had to take a turn to set-up, and I already had a set-up sweeper in Dragonite. I'm still open to suggestions about it though. The reason I chose Low Sweep is because it slows the opponent down. If it doesn't hit something hard, then one of my other Pokemon can come in and do the job. Alternatively, Low Sweep can allow Breloom to outspeed and kill. This is more important hitting things like CS Politoed, or Landorus, or even Tornadus-T on the switch. It slows the threat down enough so that Breloom can kill them, and if Breloom can't, then someone else can. This also makes Mamoswine's job easier, as it's no longer the only one who has to deal with opposing fast threats.
The Liiligant this beast replaced is below:
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 192 Spd / 64 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Healing Wish
- Heal Bell / Hp Fire
I first got the idea of using Lilligant from Kiritana's (Prelude of Sun) which is a BEAST team. Anyways, this is slightly altered, going for max speed, max special attack, to smack people in the face with a Leaf Storm. Most people expect a Quiver Dancing Lilligant and see no harm in leaving their T-tar or Politoed in. Too bad. Lilligant can OHKO offensive variants with a Leaf Storm and can nearly OHKO defensive variants as well. Leaf Storm is also a guaranteed OHKO on uninvested Conkeldurrs who would otherwise give me a lot of problems.
The super-fast sleep powder has also been insanely useful, putting dangerous sweepers to sleep, or allowing Dnite a chance to set up. Sleep is ridiculous OP in BW, and Lilligant is perfectly able to capitalize on that. Healing Wish is basically a reset button. If I'm on the losing side of a weather war, it allows me to get Ninetales back in. If I really need Dnite, but it's taken a hit, Lilligant gets it back into commission. Basically, it takes deathfodder and makes is useful. Heal Bell is actually mostly filler. It's come in handy when my entire team (minus Starmie obviously) had annoying status. Also, it comes in handy if I get an unlucky Scald burn on Dnite or something of the like.
The new EV spread is thanks to Expert Physics. More efficient, and Lilligant isn't speed-tying with a Modest nature anyways.
Also, currently testing Hp Fire over Heal Bell to watch out for Nasty Plot Celebi, thanks to DestinyUnknown's suggestion.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 192 Spd / 64 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock
Heatran is absolutely essential to my team. He's the only Dragon resist on the team, he absorbs fire moves, and can pummel away with a ridiculously powered Fire-Blast. He's also a really good lure for Ground-type moves that D-nite can switch in for free on. Heatran also takes on a lot of threats that my team would otherwise have problems with.
Chandelure is not doing anything to him with any of its moves while Heatran can OHKO back with an Earth Power. It can switch onto CB Victini, CS Darmanitans hoping to get the sun boost and fire back Earth Powers, nabbing a KO on the way. Earth Power also hits both Politoed and T-tar pretty hard, and can also destroy opposing Heatran trying to switch in on a Fire Blast.
Dragon Pulse is mostly filler, but its useful against Dragons locked into Outrage that I can blow away. Roar is useful for last-ditch phazing out of threats that have gotten out of hand. It's come in handy to save my butt against set-up sweepers and also is just useful for racking up some SR damage.
The EVs were changed due to mklo's suggestion. I moved 60 Spd EVs away from speed and into HP. This allows me to outspeed max speed Brelooms, survive an unboosted Mach Punch, and hit back with Fire Blast. Also lets me outspeed other max speed base 70s while retaining maximum firepower.
Roar was switched out for Stealth Rock at the suggestion of Blue Wooper since Heatran has more opportunities to set it up and given a free turn, Mamoswine is probably better off using Substitute.
Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
Mamoswine is also an absolute necessity for the team. It threatens opposing Heatran out, and can set up SR on the switch before getting out. Its Ice Shard is also a lifesaver. It's guaranteed to OHKO Landorus-T, has a good change at the OHKO on Thundurus-T and can OHKO Tornadus-T (guaranteed after SR damage). It's always getting the OHKO on Salamence (even with Intimidate), can OHKO Dnites after SR, has a good chance at OHKO-ing Latios after SR, and same thing with Haxorus, making it an absolutely BEAST revenge killer.
EQ is obligatory STAB, and is gonna hurt massively coming of of Mamoswine's 130 Attack stat. Stone Edge is mostly filler, but completes the QuakeEdge Combo and can hurt the occasional Kyurem that I've seen floating around. It's also a stronger attack against Flying-types that switch in (compared to Ice Shard) if I predict correctly, although the accuracy absolutely sucks.
With Trinitrotoluene's suggestion, I have given Mamoswine Superpower and a Jolly nature in order to better check opposing Mamoswine and Balloon Tran, which were huge threats to my team.
OK. So a bit of an explanation on this change. The main problem I had with Mamoswine with Substitute was that it lost health too fast. A Sub+LO damage was already 35%. I couldn't even do that three times. Also, Mamoswine wasn't meant to power through a bunch of my opponent's team. It's meant to systematically taken down opposing threats: dragons, therians, Techniloom, etc. However, it wasn't amazing at its job since it was SO SLOW, relying on Ice Shard to damage most Dragons when LO Ice Shard isn't a clean OHKO on a lot of them (it'll dent them for sure). It also meant that against things like bulky Celebi, I was doing nothing while getting seriously hurt by Giga Drain. So in comes Choice Scarf! Most people don't expect a Choice Scarf, and will leave their Dragons or such sitting nice and pretty, preparing to fire a Draco Meteor while I get off an Icicle Crash. It's been helpful in a lot of games, outspeeding opposing Mamoswine, Heatran. It even outspeeds SD Terrakion, giving it a swift Superpower in the face.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
Multiscale Dragonite. Probably one of the most broken Pokemon ever. He and Ninetales are the only members of the team that stayed with me through the whole process, with reason. Dragonite provides a lot of useful resistances that a sun team needs. It gives me another fire-resistance in case my Heatran is in some trouble, can take the fighting attacks that Heatran attracts, provides a water resistance (quadruple resistance underneath the sun), and a Ground-immunity.
Multiscale also gives Dnite the chance to set up on virtually anything. For instance, Dnite can come in to revenge Latios. Even if Latios didn't use Draco Meteor the first turn, he can't OHKO through Multiscale. On the other hand, Dnite can use DD, boost up to 426 speed, proceed to outspeed, and OHKO with Dragon Claw. Dnite also serves as a beastly check to Scizor, coming in with Multiscale, then taking around 30% from Bullet Punch and OHKOing with Fire Punch, which gains psuedo-stab under the sun.
Dnite comes in a lot as my clean-up towards the end of a match. It can set up on almost anything and then proceed to run through the opposing team. Its natural bulk also gives it good insurance against priority. The moves are pretty standard. I chose Dragon Claw over Outrage since I don't like being locked into a single move. Fire punch gains STAB under the sun and is awesome for breaking Steel-type Pokemon. EQ provides a nice OHKO on Heatran, and other Fire-types. Extremespeed would've been cool, but I only have four move slots. :(
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
And the last, but certainly not least, member of the team: Starmie! It's been OU since Gen 1, and for good reason. It provides my team with the much-necessary Rapid Spin support (keeps Dnite's Multiscale, allows Ninetales to come in unscathed, etc.) Starmie might seem like an odd choice on a sun team (it loses its STAB) but trust me, it works amazingly well. It doesn't really miss the STAB since it gets superb coverage. I also don't use it to sweep. At most, it's cleaning up at the end of a match or revenge killing niche threats.
Starmie is a pretty speedy mon, and can revenge kill a lot of troublesome things. It gets the OHKO on Haxorus, Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T (after SR), and a lot of annoying Dragons. It can't do as much to Latias or Latios due to their special bulk, but it's still awesome. It can also come in and revenge SD Gliscor with a fast Ice Beam. Thunderbolt is nice as it lets me hit Politoed and other rain sweepers really hard. It also gives Boltbeam coverage which is awesome. HP Fire is mostly to abuse the sun. It gains pseudo-STAB, which means that under the sun, it's actually Starmie's most powerful move. It also allows Starmie to "escape" from Scizor (by killing it outright). And allows Starmie to avoid getting walled by Ferrothorn (who gets OHKOd by almost every member of the team. xD). I miss having Recover and Psychic on my Starmie (as I used to have) but I don't really see where they can fit in.
After considering Thunder Wave, HP Fire, and Hydro Pump, I have finally settled on Psychic/Psyshock as my last move on Starmie, allowing it to outspeed and kill important threats such as Terrakion, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr. It's also a STAB move that will leave a dent in anything not Dark-type.
How They Work Together:
Ninetales+Breloom:
They keep the weather up and going, and do it pretty well. Breloom can kill T-tar with a Mach Punch and threatens Politoed with a Bullet Seed (although the rise in ScarfToed has made its job tougher.) Abombasnow....is easily dealt with. Mach Punch/Flamethrower and the Christmas tree is dead. The two together help me maintain the weather advantage, which is really nice against other weather teams.
Heatran+Dragonite:
Heatran and Dragonite work pretty well at taking each other's counters out. Dragonite can tank Fighting moves, hitting back with Dragon Claw/EQ/Fire Punch. Heatran can take the Ice and Dragon moves aimed at Dragonite. Dragonite is immune to the Ground type moves Heatran fears. In general, a very potent offensive duo.
Mamoswine+Starmie:
Between the two of these, opposing Fliers and Dragons are knocked out of the sky. Both carry Ice type moves, and Mamoswine has priority while Starmie gets the benefit of amazing speed. They also function in tandem as revenge killers. Starmie can easily take the Fire moves aimed at Mamoswine, while Mamoswine gets the Electric moves aimed at Starmie. Unfortunately, they share a Grass-type weakness, but Grass moves aren't super common, which is good. They can also clean up once threats have been eliminated, both having good enough bulk to take a hit or two and smack back with either straight up brute force (Mamoswine) or good coverage (Starmie).
THREATLIST:
The BW2 Metagame is different, but I'll just use the June stats. How I take care of them is underneath each threat.
|1 | Scizor |
Four members of the team carry fire type moves. Scizor is not going anywhere. Dnite can take on pretty much anything it has and OHKO with fire punch. Starmie can outspeed and HP fire.
| 2 | Dragonite |
Opposing dragonite are a bit tough, and I always try to have SR up if I see an opposing Dnite. That way, mamo or starmie can come in and screw it over with an ice-type move. Otherwise, I keep my own Dnite at full health so I can come in and revenge kill. Alternatively, Lilligant can put it to sleep. Lots of options.
| 3 | Tyranitar |
Lilligant says Hi. EQ from mamoswine and Dnite says hi.
| 4 | Heatran |
Heatran is a little tough. I try to have SR up against him, then use Dnite to go in and slaughter him with EQ. If he has an air balloon, Dnite can break his balloon and then OHKO with an EQ. Alternatively, once his balloon is popped, Mamo can come in an EQ as well.
| 5 | Rotom-W |
Rotom-W has no business staying in on Lilligant's Leaf Storm. SR helps prevent volt-turning as well as some key prediction. A lot of people don't expect Solarbeam on Ninetales so Ninetales can lay some serious hurt on Rotom-W, possibly even KO-ing after SR damage. Rotom-W on the other hand, does a max of 70% with Hydro Pump underneath the sun if its a Choice Scarf variant.
| 6 | Terrakion |
I actually honestly haven't seen a lot of these around, but Lilligant underneath the sun can outspeed as it SDs and put it to sleep or KO it with a Leaf Storm. The key here is to not let it get boosted. Dnite can come in and revenge with an EQ as well if Multiscale is still up.
| 7 | Ferrothorn |
Fire type moves kill.
| 8 | Politoed |
Lilligant can do amazing damage on it. I've actually found Politoed to be less of a threat than I thought it'd be with Sunny Day Tales and Lilligant.
| 9 | Gliscor |
Ice moves galore. Starmie normally does the trick, but Mamoswine can also come and Ice Shard it to death.
| 10 | Jirachi |
Under sun, fire moves do a ton to Jirachi. Standard Jirachis also can't do a lot to Heatran, giving it a free switch and opportunity to show off that massive Fire Blast.
| 11 | Latios |
Generally, I let Heatran take a hit, and then switch to Starmie or Mamo, who can revenge kill.
| 12 | Starmie |
Underneath the sun, no one on my team is weak to water. Lilligant can outspeed underneath the sun and take it out with a nice Leaf Storm, or Ninetales can Solarbeam non LO variants, and Dragonite can come in and revenge if Multiscale is up.
| 13 | Skarmory |
Ninetales! You have use! Ahem. JK. Heatran serves better duty here, or Starmie. Starmie can spin AND HP fire. Take that Skarmory!
| 14 | Landorus |
Ice type moves.
| 15 | Salamence |
^see above.
| 16 | Tentacruel |
EQ off of Dnite or Mamo is pretty much guaranteed to kill this thing.
| 17 | Forretress |
It can't do crap to Starmie as Starmie spins and destroys it with hp fire.
| 18 | Gengar |
Honestly haven't seen a lot of these around either. Dnite can come in on almost anything and kill. Subs are annoying, but playing around them is possible. Mamoswine's Ice Shard will also hurt. It can't really switch in safely (apart from revenge) so as long as I keep up the offensive pressure, I shoudl be fine.
| 19 | Celebi |
Fire type moves. Dragonite is probably the safest switch here, able to take almost everything Celebi's can dish out and KO back with a Fire punch. Heatran can take on variants lacking Earth Power. Starmie can come in and revenge with hp fire. Lilligant can outspeed and put it to sleep.
| 20 | Magnezone |
Heatran doesn't exactly fear a lot from this guy. Everyone else also has their own way of dealing with him. Starmie can hp fire, Dnite has EQ, Mamo has EQ, Heatran can earth power or fire blast, Lilligant can put him to sleep, Ninetales can use Flamethrower.
| 21 | Jellicent |
Starmie can take Scalds all day long under the sun. Just gotta watch out for the rare Shadow Ball. Alternatively, Lilligant can Leaf Storm Pringles into oblivion.
| 22 | Breloom |
Actually tough to deal with now that Techniloom is out. Generally, I let something (Ninetales) take the sleep, and the proceed to batter it with Starmie, Dnite, Lilligant.
| 23 | Gyarados |
If it's a bulky variant, Starmie's Tbolt will always do nicely. Otherwise, Lilligant can still outspeed under the sun and put it to sleep, or do damage with Leaf Storm. A lot of Gyarados users expect Ninetales to switch out, so I stay in and WoW them before switching out. After that, Dnite can deal with him. Or even Starmie.
| 24 | Volcarona |
Stealth Rock. Then, Heatran uses Roar. gg volcarona.
| 25 | Ninetales |
Lol.
| 26 | Lucario |
Dnite will take around 60% from a +2 Extremespeed and can KO back with EQ or firepunch.
| 27 | Infernape |
Dnite resists both of his stab and he can come in and kill. He's pretty frail so the only case where I'd really have problems is when he comes in to revenge kill.
| 28 | Haxorus |
I've already talked about how I deal with this monster.
| 29 | Hydreigon |
The same way I deal with all the other dragons. Sleep, Ice, Ice, Ice.
| 30 | Espeon |
Espeon doesn't generally bother me too much. Heatran doesn't take a lot of damage, and can KO with sun-boosted Fire Blast.
| 31 | Reuniclus |
Haven't seen a bunch of these running around in BW2 but sleep from Lilligant, or just serious heavy pounding will normally do the trick. Heatran also carries Roar to send Reuniclus away before it gets too many boosts.
| 32 | Donphan |
Starmie. Bye bye SR and bye bye Donphan.
| 33 | Jolteon |
Ninetales can survive a thunderbolt and OHKO with a flamethrower.
| 34 | Blissey |
Mamoswine's EQ hurts it massively. It's a bit of a pain, and I haven't seen a lot running around, but Dnite can also set up in front of it and KO.
| 35 | Gastrodon |
Lilligant is saving my life.
| 36 | Tornadus |
Starmie and Mamoswine can revenge.
| 37 | Conkeldurr |
Lilligant, you are my favorite Pokemon.
| 38 | Alakazam |
Mamoswine can OHKO with Ice Shard after a bit or prior damage. Lilligant can outspeed and Leaf Storm or put it to sleep. Dnite can also come in with full health and kill it.
| 39 | Cloyster |
SR is a life-saver here. Starmie can also survive anything but a 5-hit Rock Blast and smash back with a thunderbolt. Lilligant can also outspeed under sun even after an SS and put it out of commission with a Leaf Storm.
| 40 | Latias |
Heatran saves my life here. Roar is awesome, and eventually, SR will wear it down to where Mamo can OHKO.
| 41 | Vaporeon |
Can't do anything under the sun.
| 42 | Mamoswine |
Probably one of my greater struggles. Normally, I try to bait it and get it locked into one move, but I've had a lot of trouble with EB variants.
| 43 | Metagross |
Blast it with fire moves.
| 44 | Venusaur |
Dangerous. However, Heatran can take on variants lacking EQ, Dnite can come in and destroy it with a Fire Punch, and worst case, Lilligant can put it to sleep.
| 45 | Dugtrio |
Bye bye Heatran, Bye bye ninetales. Starmie can outspeed and KO with Ice Beam. Other than that, Mamo swine will destroy it, Lilligant can Leaf Storm, and it's not doing much to Dnite.
| 46 | Toxicroak |
Dnite can come and EQ. Sun also destroys is naturally
| 47 | Hippowdon |
Lilligant. Starmie. Special attacks in general.
| 48 | Deoxys-D |
Lilligant. Put the thing to sleep. If that doesn't work, I can set up on it with Dnite, or WoW it with Ninetales.
| 49 | Virizion |
Dnite saves my life with a Fire Punch. It can't do much initially, so I try to batter it with as many boosted Fire moves as I can.
| 50 | Abomasnow |
FIRE FTW! Actually thought, Ninetales itself can deal with Abombasnow.
Other notable threats in the BW2 Metagame:
Keldeo: dang this this is hard to take down. Sun makes his hydro pump less threatening, and Dragonite can set up and screw him over with multiscale up. Starmie can also outspeed and Thunderbolt if he hasn't accumulated too many boosts. Lilligant can also outspeed and Leaf Storm. With sun up, Lilligant can switch into a Hydro Pump, but a Secret Sword is gonna hurt. Dnite is probably my best bet. Or Starmie.
The Therians: I've covered them sufficiently.
Wow long list! I clearly struggle with a few notable threats, but with careful prediction, I can make my way around most of them. Boosting opponents also give me a little stress, but I can deal with most of them by quickly beating them down.
Four members of the team carry fire type moves. Scizor is not going anywhere. Dnite can take on pretty much anything it has and OHKO with fire punch. Starmie can outspeed and HP fire.
| 2 | Dragonite |
Opposing dragonite are a bit tough, and I always try to have SR up if I see an opposing Dnite. That way, mamo or starmie can come in and screw it over with an ice-type move. Otherwise, I keep my own Dnite at full health so I can come in and revenge kill. Alternatively, Lilligant can put it to sleep. Lots of options.
| 3 | Tyranitar |
Lilligant says Hi. EQ from mamoswine and Dnite says hi.
| 4 | Heatran |
Heatran is a little tough. I try to have SR up against him, then use Dnite to go in and slaughter him with EQ. If he has an air balloon, Dnite can break his balloon and then OHKO with an EQ. Alternatively, once his balloon is popped, Mamo can come in an EQ as well.
| 5 | Rotom-W |
Rotom-W has no business staying in on Lilligant's Leaf Storm. SR helps prevent volt-turning as well as some key prediction. A lot of people don't expect Solarbeam on Ninetales so Ninetales can lay some serious hurt on Rotom-W, possibly even KO-ing after SR damage. Rotom-W on the other hand, does a max of 70% with Hydro Pump underneath the sun if its a Choice Scarf variant.
| 6 | Terrakion |
I actually honestly haven't seen a lot of these around, but Lilligant underneath the sun can outspeed as it SDs and put it to sleep or KO it with a Leaf Storm. The key here is to not let it get boosted. Dnite can come in and revenge with an EQ as well if Multiscale is still up.
| 7 | Ferrothorn |
Fire type moves kill.
| 8 | Politoed |
Lilligant can do amazing damage on it. I've actually found Politoed to be less of a threat than I thought it'd be with Sunny Day Tales and Lilligant.
| 9 | Gliscor |
Ice moves galore. Starmie normally does the trick, but Mamoswine can also come and Ice Shard it to death.
| 10 | Jirachi |
Under sun, fire moves do a ton to Jirachi. Standard Jirachis also can't do a lot to Heatran, giving it a free switch and opportunity to show off that massive Fire Blast.
| 11 | Latios |
Generally, I let Heatran take a hit, and then switch to Starmie or Mamo, who can revenge kill.
| 12 | Starmie |
Underneath the sun, no one on my team is weak to water. Lilligant can outspeed underneath the sun and take it out with a nice Leaf Storm, or Ninetales can Solarbeam non LO variants, and Dragonite can come in and revenge if Multiscale is up.
| 13 | Skarmory |
Ninetales! You have use! Ahem. JK. Heatran serves better duty here, or Starmie. Starmie can spin AND HP fire. Take that Skarmory!
| 14 | Landorus |
Ice type moves.
| 15 | Salamence |
^see above.
| 16 | Tentacruel |
EQ off of Dnite or Mamo is pretty much guaranteed to kill this thing.
| 17 | Forretress |
It can't do crap to Starmie as Starmie spins and destroys it with hp fire.
| 18 | Gengar |
Honestly haven't seen a lot of these around either. Dnite can come in on almost anything and kill. Subs are annoying, but playing around them is possible. Mamoswine's Ice Shard will also hurt. It can't really switch in safely (apart from revenge) so as long as I keep up the offensive pressure, I shoudl be fine.
| 19 | Celebi |
Fire type moves. Dragonite is probably the safest switch here, able to take almost everything Celebi's can dish out and KO back with a Fire punch. Heatran can take on variants lacking Earth Power. Starmie can come in and revenge with hp fire. Lilligant can outspeed and put it to sleep.
| 20 | Magnezone |
Heatran doesn't exactly fear a lot from this guy. Everyone else also has their own way of dealing with him. Starmie can hp fire, Dnite has EQ, Mamo has EQ, Heatran can earth power or fire blast, Lilligant can put him to sleep, Ninetales can use Flamethrower.
| 21 | Jellicent |
Starmie can take Scalds all day long under the sun. Just gotta watch out for the rare Shadow Ball. Alternatively, Lilligant can Leaf Storm Pringles into oblivion.
| 22 | Breloom |
Actually tough to deal with now that Techniloom is out. Generally, I let something (Ninetales) take the sleep, and the proceed to batter it with Starmie, Dnite, Lilligant.
| 23 | Gyarados |
If it's a bulky variant, Starmie's Tbolt will always do nicely. Otherwise, Lilligant can still outspeed under the sun and put it to sleep, or do damage with Leaf Storm. A lot of Gyarados users expect Ninetales to switch out, so I stay in and WoW them before switching out. After that, Dnite can deal with him. Or even Starmie.
| 24 | Volcarona |
Stealth Rock. Then, Heatran uses Roar. gg volcarona.
| 25 | Ninetales |
Lol.
| 26 | Lucario |
Dnite will take around 60% from a +2 Extremespeed and can KO back with EQ or firepunch.
| 27 | Infernape |
Dnite resists both of his stab and he can come in and kill. He's pretty frail so the only case where I'd really have problems is when he comes in to revenge kill.
| 28 | Haxorus |
I've already talked about how I deal with this monster.
| 29 | Hydreigon |
The same way I deal with all the other dragons. Sleep, Ice, Ice, Ice.
| 30 | Espeon |
Espeon doesn't generally bother me too much. Heatran doesn't take a lot of damage, and can KO with sun-boosted Fire Blast.
| 31 | Reuniclus |
Haven't seen a bunch of these running around in BW2 but sleep from Lilligant, or just serious heavy pounding will normally do the trick. Heatran also carries Roar to send Reuniclus away before it gets too many boosts.
| 32 | Donphan |
Starmie. Bye bye SR and bye bye Donphan.
| 33 | Jolteon |
Ninetales can survive a thunderbolt and OHKO with a flamethrower.
| 34 | Blissey |
Mamoswine's EQ hurts it massively. It's a bit of a pain, and I haven't seen a lot running around, but Dnite can also set up in front of it and KO.
| 35 | Gastrodon |
Lilligant is saving my life.
| 36 | Tornadus |
Starmie and Mamoswine can revenge.
| 37 | Conkeldurr |
Lilligant, you are my favorite Pokemon.
| 38 | Alakazam |
Mamoswine can OHKO with Ice Shard after a bit or prior damage. Lilligant can outspeed and Leaf Storm or put it to sleep. Dnite can also come in with full health and kill it.
| 39 | Cloyster |
SR is a life-saver here. Starmie can also survive anything but a 5-hit Rock Blast and smash back with a thunderbolt. Lilligant can also outspeed under sun even after an SS and put it out of commission with a Leaf Storm.
| 40 | Latias |
Heatran saves my life here. Roar is awesome, and eventually, SR will wear it down to where Mamo can OHKO.
| 41 | Vaporeon |
Can't do anything under the sun.
| 42 | Mamoswine |
Probably one of my greater struggles. Normally, I try to bait it and get it locked into one move, but I've had a lot of trouble with EB variants.
| 43 | Metagross |
Blast it with fire moves.
| 44 | Venusaur |
Dangerous. However, Heatran can take on variants lacking EQ, Dnite can come in and destroy it with a Fire Punch, and worst case, Lilligant can put it to sleep.
| 45 | Dugtrio |
Bye bye Heatran, Bye bye ninetales. Starmie can outspeed and KO with Ice Beam. Other than that, Mamo swine will destroy it, Lilligant can Leaf Storm, and it's not doing much to Dnite.
| 46 | Toxicroak |
Dnite can come and EQ. Sun also destroys is naturally
| 47 | Hippowdon |
Lilligant. Starmie. Special attacks in general.
| 48 | Deoxys-D |
Lilligant. Put the thing to sleep. If that doesn't work, I can set up on it with Dnite, or WoW it with Ninetales.
| 49 | Virizion |
Dnite saves my life with a Fire Punch. It can't do much initially, so I try to batter it with as many boosted Fire moves as I can.
| 50 | Abomasnow |
FIRE FTW! Actually thought, Ninetales itself can deal with Abombasnow.
Other notable threats in the BW2 Metagame:
Keldeo: dang this this is hard to take down. Sun makes his hydro pump less threatening, and Dragonite can set up and screw him over with multiscale up. Starmie can also outspeed and Thunderbolt if he hasn't accumulated too many boosts. Lilligant can also outspeed and Leaf Storm. With sun up, Lilligant can switch into a Hydro Pump, but a Secret Sword is gonna hurt. Dnite is probably my best bet. Or Starmie.
The Therians: I've covered them sufficiently.
Wow long list! I clearly struggle with a few notable threats, but with careful prediction, I can make my way around most of them. Boosting opponents also give me a little stress, but I can deal with most of them by quickly beating them down.
Closing Comments
That's all I have on the team right now. I feel like it's a pretty good team. It struggles with a few things (the lack of recovery on any mon hurts) and it does require knowing when to sacrifice, and when to switch, but I feel like the team works well together and functions pretty well in the BW2 OU environment.
Please, please, please, leave criticism, ideas, thoughts, suggestions, anything that could help me improve the team. I know there's a lot of work that can still be done, so help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to read through this guys!
Text Importable:
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- SolarBeam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rapid Spin
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Healing Wish
- Heal Bell
Trait: Drought
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- SolarBeam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar
Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
Mamoswine @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rapid Spin
Lilligant @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Healing Wish
- Heal Bell