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All Gens Underrated Sets

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by BKC, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
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    Big Papa Smurf (Hippowdon) @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - Ice Fang
    - Slack Off

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Hippowdon Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 278-328 (95.2 - 112.3%) - always dead after sand
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shuca Berry Heatran: 369-439 (114.2 - 135.9%) - dead (although so are you if it's modest LO or specs, but oh well)
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 309-367 (84.8 - 100.8%) - this one kind of sucks. LO makes it a 50/50 shot at the kill, though.
    252+ Atk Expert Belt Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 388-460 (96 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

    You can't really play this like a normal hippowdon, but it can do some serious pain if you're relying on stuff like celebi/starmie/rotom as your hippo check while still doing hippo-esque things like checking elecs/ttar in a pinch. I used it because I wanted sand for aero but to also not get put in a horrible position vs stuff like azelf and stuff like heatran / jirachi where it's like wellll i can try and kill this but i'm risking hippo getting severely crippled and not getting SR up, which you still are, but if they attack you they're likely losing their SRer when you aren't, so that should be good.

    CB is possibly better, but then you're stuck with CB eqs which are easy to set up on. SE > Ice Fang also works, but fk breloom...

    Kakarot (Infernape) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Blaze
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Low Kick
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Slack Off

    Scizor counter that has a bit of speed to still revenge stuff in a punch and can mess up with some common switch-ins, because bulky SD sciz is such a pain. Outspeed 100s because flareblitz is still gonna hurt cele/shaymin/jira even without any attack investment. I dunno how effective this is over the long run and not as a one-time surprise thing, but everything offensive hates burn, and if you burn stuff like hippo/pert they're not going to be able to kill you, so that's nice. Taunt probably works over flareblitz too.
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Infernape: 269-317 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - aka the reason why i have defense evs instead of 68 attack.

    Mascot of Australia (Feraligatr) @ Mystic Water
    Ability: Torrent
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Aqua Jet

    Wacan works fine on this too, but i like MW because you can survive tbolts from starmie and offensive rotom you have to aqua jet anyway (defensive you'll outspeed and crunch, so w/e). Pair it with something like gyara to break each other's counters. With a bit of chipping, this can run through some teams, and pure water typing is very good for getting a SD in more often than not.

    Flygon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Think i may have put this in another thread already, but this kind of wrecks a lot, especially if your flygon counter is just something like a ground. Use with magnezone obv.

    Stuff i thought about using is lead sash breloom (just standard-esque set, but it can either deny SR or put you in a great position a lot of the time). Could do well on an offensive team. I had it on a yanmega team to see if I can deny or disincentivise SR getting up early. Lead sash yanmega w/ hypnosis is another thing i thought about for the same reason, but 60% accuracy is a bit bleh. This is all i could find in my inbox, thought it would be worth posting.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    Analytic, McMeghan, Karxrida and 12 others like this.
  2. Twisted Kneebar

    Twisted Kneebar

    Joined:
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    CB Gyara is great. Crushes all Gyara counters and walls with the right predictions. CB anything is underrated in DPP, IMO. Tar, Nite, Flygon, etc
    badabing likes this.
  3. gvmgvm40

    gvmgvm40

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Is there a specific reason for the HP EVs? 64 HP/252 Def looks significantly better if you want physical bulk:

    252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 252 Def Infernape: 218-258 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Infernape: 272-320 (76.6 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 64 HP / 252 Def Infernape: 217-256 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario ExtremeSpeed vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Infernape: 267-315 (75.2 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    64 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 64 HP / 252 Def Infernape: 139-165 (44.9 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    64 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Infernape: 172-204 (48.4 - 57.4%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 64 HP / 252 Def Infernape: 121-143 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Infernape: 150-177 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    0 Atk burned Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 252 Def Infernape: 116-140 (37.5 - 45.3%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
    0 Atk burned Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 68 Def Infernape: 146-174 (41.1 - 49%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
    Oxovo likes this.
  4. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
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    There isn't a specific reason apart from just wanting to also be able to take some special hits in a pinch and not actually putting in any effort to think about optimising.

    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 260-308 (73.2 - 86.7%)
    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 260-308 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 282-332 (91.2 - 107.4%)
    252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 282-332 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    the reduced damage in your calcs look kinda nice, though (especially vs lucario). I guess it's just a tradeoff of what you think is more important. You probably don't really want to stay in on many s.atkers if you can avoid it, so maybe your spread is better.
  5. Smurf.

    Smurf.
    is a Past SPL Champion

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    oops an error has occurred!
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
    Martin, Magermilchpuur, Luigi and 5 others like this.
  6. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
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    (HINT: BW2 OU)
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 84 Atk / 172 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunder
    - U-turn

    This is a set that appears whenever I make BW2 rain teams featuring Choice Scarf Jirachi. The idea is that with both Thunder and Hidden Power Ice, Jirachi can hit a number of targets harder that it has issues with before, specifically Gyarados and Landorus-T. With the current spread, Jirachi has a 75% chance of OHKOing bulky Landorus-T after Stealth Rock with Hidden Power Ice, as well as cleanly OHKOing any variant of Gyarados, defensive variants after Stealth Rock. The set still retains Iron Head for Paraflinching capabilities, but allows Jirachi to revenge kill a number of other threats it usually has difficulties KOing with the standard Choice Scarf set, such as Keldeo, Starmie, and Garchomp (while also avoiding Rough Skin) and Politoed.
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Meadow Plate
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 196 SpA / 204 SpD / 108 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass

    The speed here is for Jolly Breloom because Celebi is supposed to check it, and the Special Attack EVs allow Celebi to OHKO Choice Scarf Tyranitar at +2 with Giga Drain + Meadow Plate. The rest was thrown into Special Defense to allow Celebi to have an easier time handling Keldeo and Latios. The idea of this set is to pair it with number of special attackers that are considerably more dangerous at +2 (think Starmie, Moltres, Keldeo, Latios, Volcarona, Thundurus-T) without being too passive for Hyper offense teams. This set is much more inclined towards hyper / heavy offense, where a set as risky as this has much more offensive support to pressure Pokemon that may keep Celebi from Baton Passing, while also having a number of specially-based teammates that can plow right through normal checks at +2.
  7. McMeghan

    McMeghan Dreamcatcher
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the Smogon Tour Season 14 Champion

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    I got some time on my hand today and want to show the "creative" sets I haven't shared yet. You can see in them the reason of my less than stellar results or the gems my genius mind can produce :pirate:
    It's gonna be mostly ADV, as it's what I've brainstormed the most ever since the last tournament I played.

    ADV

    [​IMG] Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Hidden Power [Dark]
    - Spikes

    Cacturne is actually such an underrated threat, for real. As long as you're faster than something (hence all the speed EVs), you can 1v1 it under Sand. With Leftovers, it's statistically in your favor to beat some threats on the long run like CurseLax. If you can add some Paralysis to your team, you're golden to abuse this set. HP Dark is a nice catch-all move that deters Celebi from abusing you too.

    It's ridiculous how some bulky offense hates facing this set by the way (if you can get a Sub up, like for example in front of Pert), you're gonna make the life of Metagross, Tyranitar or Snorlax a living nightmare.
    ---

    [​IMG] Cacturne (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Needle Arm

    Different take on Cacturne. I think this set is overall worse, but you got a grass STAB to OHKO Dug and actually threaten water right off the bat. I think it fits full Offense a bit better in that way. You can experiment with something else over HP Fire, but preventing Skarm/Forre from freely spiking on your face is good.

    By the way, Needle Arm can flinch :)
    ---

    [​IMG] Heracross (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpD
    - Rock Slide
    - Megahorn
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Focus Punch

    There might be some jackass shits in this post, but this set is actually a testament to my genius.

    Heracross just punches shit around in ADV, y'all know that. It's pretty bulky and will check a few stuff in a pinch too. Now, typical spikes/gar teams will often hate facing Hera but they can still sorta check with Gengar, especially if they carry Hypnosis. That's why you run Chesto + HP Ghost to get rid of it. Notice how it's Chesto and not Lum so you can still take WoW/Twave/Toxic and brute force you way through everything with Guts.

    Evidence.zip | Evidence.rar
    ---

    [​IMG] Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
    Impish Nature
    IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Brick Break
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    When you want a Rock resist that also checks Heracross lol. It's not really good but it's unique at what it does so there you go. You can check a few things with it, such as Aero/Ttar/CM Bliss. You can also restall Gengar technically, but odds are you're getting crit before you kill it with restalked HP Fly.
    ---

    [​IMG] Magneton @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Endure
    - Rain Dance

    Another Endure Salac Magneton. Emergency weather move (Sunny Day/Rain Dance, whatever fits your team better) is gucci when you need Sand gone -> obvious Heracross partner.
    ---

    [​IMG] Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 232 HP / 144 Atk / 132 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Taunt
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic / Roar

    This set is actually fire and I'm posting it before BKC/Tesung claims the likes from it. Taunt because fuck Spikes yaknow, and Recovery/status/set-up of all sorts. Toxic is usually better than Roar because it pairs well with Taunt and nails Swampert on the switch (thought you were safe uh?). You can look up Tesung vs jira from WCoP final to see this set do work.

    Nice and clean bulk makes Tyranitar always so useful. I advice in running enough Atk to OHKO Dug just in case this scenario arises.
    ---

    [​IMG]Weezing (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 12 Def / 40 SpD / 180 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Explosion
    - Sludge Bomb

    I wanted to experiment with Taunt users in ADV. Kind of a move you don't see often but it's pretty cool to deny set-ups/spikes/recovery and rack up passive damages (spikes, status, sand). Originally wanted to try out Taunt+Recovery (Pain Split) but this set did more work. Weezing's good typing makes it a nice emergency check to a bunch of stuff to round out its utility (Lax, Hera, Mence, Gyara, Tyranitar for example).

    Explosion is a bomb-ass move too. Was originally using Flamethrower over Sludge, but the benefits aren't that good compared to Sludge. Enough speed for most Tyranitar and Milotic. Forgot what the other EVs do but they work fine.
    ---

    BW

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Taunt
    - Rock Slide
    - Roost

    Honestly, this Pokemon is kinda wack and inconsistent. It's pretty fun to play tho, so I'm posting it. I always loved how BKC won games out of nowhere with this fella in DPP years ago and felt like it could do work in BW. Sub/Taunt/Roost + Pressure makes PP wasting a real opportunity and it's kinda bulky under Sand. You need support tho, because there are a lot of Pokemons you'll have trouble with (Scizor, Bulky Loom, Garchomp, Keldeo to name a few). I recommand Toxic Spikes and/or Trappers (I use Gothitelle).

    Here is a replay showing how it can bring games back. Thanks sugar for your services.
    ---

    [​IMG] Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 236 HP / 44 SpD / 228 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 HP / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    Catch these hands Breloom, I don't need to heal this anyway. Desperate measure to get rid of Bulky Loom for Aerodactyl. You can catch them on the switch with Pump+Sand+HP Flying mid-game too.
    ---

    That's all folks, I'll be back.
  8. sugarhigh

    sugarhigh

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    359
    Some sets that I used/planned to use during wcop:

    [​IMG] Salamence @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Outrage
    - Fire Fang / Earthquake

    Pretty cool lure for taking out a chunk or killing landorus-therian can be eved to kill lando-t, also takes giant chunks off hippo and can do the suprise dd to catch some more kills. really enjoyed using this pokemon, mence definitely should be used more in bw very strong and can use a ton of lure sets.

    [​IMG] Dragonite @ Yache Berry
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    - Dragon Claw
    Also pretty cool set in conjuction of the one above. Takes out ferrotran with its moveset and if a chunk is taken out of the lando-t this pokemon becomes a very strong menace. Yache has saved me multiple times and gives the pokemon a way easier time to set up. Fun set that can break down those shitty sand cores ^^. Also dclaw over outrage because no lum berry.

    [​IMG] Terrakion @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Rock Polish / Protect
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Love lando-t punishers, use this in conjuction with another mon that hates lando-t (fighting/dragspam) and u will have a fun time.

    [​IMG] Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Sleep Talk
    I've really been digging kyurem-normal also lately. I'm also kinda tired of ppl just only using the sub roost set, shit can hit hard as fuck. Its essentially stronger than specs latios as it can forgo timid for modest and basically breaks shit for teams. Also neat mon to have sleep talk on also.


    [​IMG] Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Scald
    - Protect

    I used this set on a tspike protect stall team (v gay I know lol), but its actually a pretty clutch move set. Tho it forgoes the annoyance and boon of taunt for protect, it allows the racking of tspike damage and also eliminates the 5050 in scarftar/bandtar situations which i found very handy in quite a few matchups. Overall its a pretty cool tech that allows jelly to have a little more depth as a spinblocker.


    [​IMG] Latias @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Healing Wish
    - Trick
    - Tailwind


    I didn't use this in wcop or planned on using it in wcop but I did however use it last spl and it was one of my favorite sets. 3 utility move scarf latias actually does alot of fun stuff especially on dragmag teams. It hwish a dragon up can tailwind for an endgame sweep or trick and cripple opposing mons while still being able to check the scarfers and getting a suprise kill. It may be a little of a joke set but it was pretty rad to use.


    [​IMG] Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def / 1 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Gyro Ball

    This pokemon can be the star of the show but can also be the downfall to the team. It's a compression mon that fits the same role as a jirachi but also being ground immune so it can then check/counter landorus-therian, garchomp, hippo, etc. It however is extreme set up bait to the likes of scizor which jirachi can atleast para and can sometimes bring zero to the table except rocks at the very least. However it can get some great matchups and a very good role compression mon that can serve as your dragon, hurricane, and ground answer at the same time, if u need such a pokemon.

    Will post more sets at some other point ^^.
  9. Tokyo Tom

    Tokyo Tom Somewhere between psychotic and iconic
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hi, I am one of those guys that makes stupid teams and uses obviously inferior Pokemon to create those win-win scenarios where if you win, you win, and if you lose, you can be like, well, I was using [this Pokemon] so I obviously wasn't trying [​IMG]. Along the my journey of trying perhaps too hard to "innovate", I discovered some cool stuff, and since my alt sugarhigh made a post recently I would like to post some [​IMG] sets as well...

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpD / 164 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Disable
    - Protect
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Pearl had been trying to come up with some relatively anti-meta ish around the past tour season, and after he brought it up with me I started playing around with Duggy sun as well. Originally placed on a build to CT sand balance, I decided to add Disable to the typical Ninetales set over Sunny Day or Roar. In tandem with Protect, Disable accomplishes several feats, including shutting down slower CB users (think BandTar, Dragonite, Adamant Garchomp if your opponent is bad and stupid, Kyurem-B) which commonly give sun teams a bit of trouble, Specs Politoed (of course, this one is more difficult to scout) and other water-types, and stuff like Excadrill, who can only threaten you with one move. Disable also provides general utility on tight spots; for example, I was able to Disable a Latios's Draco Meteor in order to provide an opportunity for my weakened Cresselia to heal. Even without Disable, Protect is something I feel like people don't use enough of on Ninetales, and it provides the slight recovery that Ninetales cherishes, as well as scouting Scarf Lando-T, Crunch/Pursuit from Tyranitar, and various other shenanigans.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost
    - Hydro Pump

    I wrote an analysis on this over a year ago, and obviously I doubt that I was the first one to invent this (but does anyone really like, invent anything? are we even here right now?), but it still rocks, especially given the relatively slow nature of many builds these days, allowing Salamence to take advantage of its ok speed tier and great coverage (and surprise value) to wreak havoc. Slightly unrelated, but I just want to throw out there that I rocked the DD Hydro Mence before the above user, eliciting a "dats cool :o"-type reaction; however, even a great mind such as I originally had to steal the concept from the tree of knowledge (also known as the IDM forums) - I mean, does anyone really like, invent anything?

    [​IMG] @ Lum Berry / Sky Plate
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast
    - Roost
    - Hurricane

    Super cool set I started using after Sugarhigh rocked Specs Dragonite left and right last year. I revisited the concept earlier this summer and decided to make a flexible rain lure. It's a double bluff - you bluff physical, and then you bluff specs! Here's a replay exhibiting what Dragonite can do with surprise value (which was made a bit easier with a burn on the sand inducer, but I digress). The only problem is outside of rain, all your moves only have 70% accuracy, so Zoom Lens is an option.......if you're a pussy

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Rain Dish
    EVs: 232 HP / 136 SpD / 140 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Substitute

    This is one of those things I like to use because, as the introduction states, if you win you win, and if you lose you can just be like well I was using Ludicolo. Plays similar to a (very) poor man's SubToxic Gliscor, except while Gliscor cannot touch many of the things it can't Toxic stall, Ludicolo can burn Grass-types and be annoying that way. The speed lets you (ideally) sub on Rotom-W without risking a burn. Ludicolo is deceptively bulky (I mean, the fact that it functions in BW Ubers says quite a bit, I suppose), and the recovery it gets each turn can allow it to stick around for longer than you'd expect. It can really be a pain when paired with TSpikes, although it struggles to deal with stall teams with status-removing capabilities (I was forcibly taught this by our very own Lavos Spawn).

    [​IMG] @ Dragon Gem
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage

    This one is even worse than the above, in the sense that if you lose before you can reveal Outrage, your opponent will think you used a serious team [​IMG]. The "typical" gem set utilizes Return with a Normal Gem to OHKO SpDef Rotom-W after a boost, alongside easing issues/prediction around Pokemon such as Starmie, Gastrodon, and Jellicent. Outrage accomplishes all of these things, but forces you to lock in in order to do several other things that Return doesn't: 1) it gets past would-be checks by OHKOing Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Latias, and most importantly Dragonite through Multiscale at +1 with the Gem (or +2 without the Gem) and 2) using it doesn't imply that you enjoy penis like using Return does.

    Existing yet underrated imo: [​IMG] (phys. def), eats up many sun threats, such as DragMag teams, by itself; [​IMG] (sp. def), actually carries the bulk to shake off special dragons, including Hydreigon to an extent, which is huge for sand balance. Shrugs off Starmie and many other Rain threats such as NP Thundurus-T, and can take weaker HP Grasses.

    Some other cool stuff: Scarf [​IMG] carries modest surprise value (think vs. Scarf Landorus-T), solid coverage, and can grab momentum. Rock Gem over Fighting Gem on [​IMG] OHKOs Pokemon such as Latios cleanly and Starmie after Rocks, allowing you to sweep late-game with only a RP under your belt; it can also do cool things with an SD such as OHKO CM Reuniclus, Slowking, Amoonguss, Gliscor (big one), Slowbro after Rocks, and do upwards of 75% to 252/252 Landorus-T. Sun [​IMG] (ice / grass / fire) is worth a consideration on fun sun teams.

    Will post more sets at some other point ^^.
    Lord Ninjax, zf, Analytic and 19 others like this.
  10. Astamatitos

    Astamatitos

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    359
    I suppose I'll share some cool sets I've been using in the last couple of years in ADV:

    TSS Milotic

    [​IMG]Milotic @ Leftovers
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hypnosis
    - Recover

    I run this on a heavy Spikes TSS team and only reveal it late game. It effectively acts like a Gengar however owed to its typical bulky set you are met with stuff that don't appreciate you being offensive, notably Celebi and Zapdos. Both are 2hkoed from Ice Beam and quite often get outsped as well. Snorlax also doesn't really enjoy taking maxed out surfs in the sand.

    Milotic has a higher base Satk than cune and access to hypnosis, and landing the latter to say a 50% Blissey on the switch with spikes and sand in place can be backbreaking for the other. I prefer Surf on this as i prefer the reliable late game cleaner role, Pump would also be alright. Just make sure you reveal it without tanking any damage on the switch.

    EV Spread: 338 HP is a magic number as it allows you to tank one more Seismic Toss from Blissey. Not necessary as Sand will be typically in place by that point and can be further optimized to turn a 2hko into a quaranteed 3hko from say bulky gar by going to 353 HP. 254 Speed is a speed creep on offensive cune because my team needed to do so, however that can go down to 244 or even 222 depending on a team's need. Speed is definitely appreciable though as not getting stalled out from Celebi is huge.

    Fear's Celebi Spread

    [​IMG]Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpA / 112 SpD / 16 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic / Perish Song
    - Leech Seed
    - Recover

    Calm Nature Celebi can soak Special Attacks all day and is great in a team that needs a secondary special sponge. Fear prefers Psychic in order to dish out residual damage to offensive pivots and to dogfight Raikou in the Sand. I like Perish Song on it as it forces CM Spammers out and it also forces double switches to let your exploders in.

    The EV spread is designed to allow it to:

    SDef EVs:
    - Get 4HKOed from bulky Gengar (310 Satk): 56 SpA Gengar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112+ SpD Celebi: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers
    - Get 4HKOed by bulky Starmie (Smogon spread): 40 SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 112+ SpD Celebi: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    - Don't give a shit about Raikou: 252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 112+ SpD Celebi: 115-136 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    - Soak 236 Ice Beams: 120 SpA Swampert Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 112+ SpD Celebi: 112-132 (27.7 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    Def EVs:
    Survive HP Bug after Sand damage from Dugtrio: 252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Celebi: 319-376 (78.9 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    Survive HP Bug after Sand damage from DDTar:200+ Atk Tyranitar Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 36 Def Celebi: 319-376 (78.9 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

    SAtk EVs:
    OHKO Dugtrio: 92 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. 8 HP / 40 SpD Dugtrio: 214-252 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Bonus damage on Tyranitar: 92 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Grass vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 168-198 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Depending on the team Speed and Special Attack is variable. For instance in one of my variants i run 254 Speed for the aforementioned speed creep on modest cune by lowering Sdef and SAtk a notch.

    Body Slam Jirachi

    [​IMG]Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 56 Def / 120 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Fire Punch / Psychic / HP Fight / Ice Punch / Thunder
    - Wish
    - Protect

    My pride and joy. I invented this when i came back for a brief spell in 2013 and gave this to Danilo along with a pretty nifty Double Edge Salamence/Cloyster team. I am indebted to Danilo for popularizing this moveset and its one of the only Special walls that can take both choice band Rocks and also Gengars/Raikous.

    EVs allow it to break bulky Raikou's subs (100% quaranteed up to 340 HP invested Raikou) and survive the obligatory Dugtrio revenge. Second move is a filler, Fire Punch i'd say is the best coverage move as it allows it to brawl vs Metagross and hit Skarmory for good damage, however I've experimented with all the other moves listed.

    Roar EndPert

    [​IMG]Swampert @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Substitute
    - Endeavor
    - Roar

    EndPert doesn't necessarily need Ice Beam. Ice Beam is all nice when you wanna rely on 10% chance of freezing Recover spammers. However I'll take 50% any day of the week. Sub down as you normally would and when Celebi/Milo/Blissey come in to start their Recover spams on you just Roar them out while you are behind your sub. Assuming a non-recover user has been brought in, you are in a 50/50 situation. Do you Torrent Surf whatever came in for the OHKO? Or are you going for Endeavor to quarantee a kill and deny the recover user coming in. Then rinse and repeat:
    Really cool game showcasing this concept: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-386545030

    Other uses of Roar involve typical phazing duties and also phazing a 100% Skarmory that wants to trade his HP to deny your sweep first. I use this on a team that intends to setup a late game Zapdos sweep and as such it was imperative to wear down Blissey/Celebi moreso than have the extra coverage Ice Beam offers.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  11. KratosMana

    KratosMana
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,044
    bw
    [​IMG] Landorus-Therian @ Earth Plate
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rock Polish
    - U-turn
    Bluffs scarf lando, but with RP as a little bit of a twist to make it a deadly endgame sweeper. u-turn isn`t actually that bad even with a rp boost because u can uturn outta latis and pursuit trap/bring a check. Only thing to watch out for with this set is obviously rotom since it lacks edge, but other than that its p fun and has helped me in a couple games.
    some replays- http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-170990 (wcop) http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-183539 (superstars)

    [​IMG] Jirachi @ Apicot Berry
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 52 Atk / 240 SpA / 216 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Energy Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Natural Gift
    - Iron Head
    Was never a fan of running hp ground on volc, so I tried baiting tran with this instead. People might scout for hp ground on volc, but they never scout for natural gift ground rachi, at least not yet.

    [​IMG] Venomoth @ Charti Berry
    Ability: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Baton Pass
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sleep Powder
    Basically worse volc with baton pass. Charti makes it live a hit vs scarf rak/shao/landot which helps with passing stuff. It`s actually pretty nice on the right team... I`d recommend 3 attack cm keld as a receiver to the boosts.(240 spe to outspeed scarf exca btw)

    [​IMG] Tyranitar @ Custap Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Counter
    - Crunch
    - Ice Beam/Fire Blast
    What i generally run on rocks tar unless i need choplesuit, spdef is there to not get 2koed by specs lati(gets custap range after 2 surfs too), and def evs to tank CB kyub outrage.. not anything too new but just felt like posting it cuz i love rocks custap tar.

    [​IMG] Dragonite @ Dragon Gem
    Ability: Multiscale
    EVs: 108 Atk / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
    Lonely Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    Used this one in wcop too. Ibeam kills physdef lando which can be pretty key for offensive teams. Dgem boosted outrage is extremely powerful and is able to KO stuff like max hp ttar at +1, and fire blast nails skarm and other steels. Just more of a surprise set.

    [​IMG] Thundurus-Therian @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 144 Atk / 132 SpA / 232 Spe
    Mild Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Superpower
    Not anything new(in fact i saw this being used in an oldass yt vid) but just something a lil different that is actually pretty fun if u use it correctly. Basically when lefties gets revealed people generally think its double dance thund, so you can catch em off guard pretty easily. U-turn for cele/lati and sp for steels and ttar. Can also use focus blast but obv miss chance and doesn`t ko tar like superpower does.

    rby

    [​IMG] [​IMG] Lapras
    Ability: Water Absorb
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Reflect
    - Rest
    Reflectpras is actually smth i saw Isa using one day, so all the credit goes to him. But yeah it`s kind of the same thing as reflect lax, dumps on teams after chansey/special mons are done. Might get some replays for this cuz i spammed it in rby cup but not enough time to search it atm..
    ZoroDark, badabing, sugarhigh and 9 others like this.
  12. UD

    UD

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Here are a few ADV sets I've messed around with that have had some success:

    [​IMG]

    Kingler (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shell Armor
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Don't hate. It's like a Suicune at 75% HP who also gets Knock Off. Thanks to his already massive Attack stat, no investment is needed to do a huge chunk to Tar.

    0 Atk Kingler Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It gets free switch ins vs. Swampert and the Spikers of the tier. Proceed to Knock Off to your heart's content. I paired him with a SpDef Wish Jirachi and they actually had decent synergy. Here is a fun game vs. BKC showcasing this Kingler:

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-181759

    Speaking of SpDef Jirachi, I really like this set:

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 84 SpD / 136 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Fire Punch

    Sort of a do it all Poke who can support his team well. Mono Fire Jirachi works since in desperate times you can always burn fish and if you get it, your longevity goes through the roof. HP/Def EVs are the minimum investment required to always survive 252 Att Jolly Dugtrio EQ at full (itself kind of a rare Poke with most people favoring the 48 EVs invested in Duggy's bulk, but better safe than sorry). Obviously you can set up vs. non-CM Bliss, as well as Gengar and non-offensive Celebi.

    I used 270 Speed stat because I hate Heracross. But if he's not a threat to your team, I'd drop it to 245 ish and put the remaining EVs in SpA/SpDef. The EVs aren't as much unique as the moveset is. Max HP is really the only requirement with the rest being customizable depending on team need.

    [​IMG]

    Hariyama (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Cross Chop
    - Counter / Rest
    - Whirlwind / Sleep Talk

    I love this Poke as a lead. You can use Counter vs. opposing lead Mence to nab a free KO if you so desire, otherwise use Knock Off turn one and respond from there. Whirlwind is for opposing lead Electrics who like to Sub/Baton Pass from the jump.

    The alternate version of this set is RestTalk over Counter/Whirlwind. In my opinion, he can still pull off Sleep Talk since using Knock Off vs. anything is a good outcome, and it sort of helps with the low-PP Cross Chop.

    So yeah. I really like Knock Off. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read this!

    Btw, how do you add sprites for each Poke? Those look awesome.

    Edit: added the sprites. Thanks guys!
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  13. Foggi

    Foggi Tournament Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Sharp Beak
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 116 SpA / 140 Spe
    Naughty Nature
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Fire Blast
    - Brick Break
    - Rock Slide


    Here is an interesting ADV mence set that I've been using on some teams lately, it works as skarmory lure + can bluff choiceband and save you in some late-game situations like it did in this fun game with triangles http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3ou-184798

    Salamence revenge killed his blaziken with hp fly then while he went in with his tyranitar and tried to set up DD, i used brick break wich left him in range of hp grass from my fast jirachi.

    I think it's a cool set that is definitely worth mentioning since it has some cool uses, i think it's the best to pair this specific set with Spikes support to wear down the opposing water types way easier.

    EDIT: Here is another underrated adv set that has been used before by some people (for example bkc in this year's Wcop) but i also made a team with it wich had some success so why not post it here.[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Band
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Doom Desire
    - Body Slam
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Shadow Ball

    Choiceband jirachi can really shred some teams apart, especially if paired with a Pursuit Trapper and Spikes.
    192 speed EVs allow it to outspeed adamant tyranitar at +1 and do solid damage with HP Fight, Doom Desire paired with spikes can really wear down the water types for things like aerodactyl, Salamence or flygon that's why it is nice to pair it with heavy physical hitters like these mentioned above.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
    Eden's Embrace, dice, Kaisser and 6 others like this.
  14. BKC

    BKC
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,618
    First, some thoughts on some of the other sets that have been posted:

    - Bulky Infernape
    This is pretty sick. The longevity against Clefable is also awesome imo. It needs support (you definitely don't want to be thudding against Starmie and being able to do nothing about it) but it can potentially be really good I think. I would use Blaze Kick for reasons I will go into later...
    - Taunt + Toxic Tyranitar
    This set is so cool. It ensures defensive teams aren't going to start suffocating you from the beginning and simultaneously sneaks a Toxic on something that probably doesn't like taking it unless they have a Steelix. The best part is that it's not overstretching itself to lure its counters - it's still a physical attacking Tar. Tesung and I used this set on his team for semis and my team that I suggested for finals was changed to include this set because we liked it so much. Excellent stuff.
    - 4 attack Heracross
    Amazing set, I remember talking with Triangles about using a CB Hera to punish the obscene amount of Tar leads and then a few months later this shit shows up. Just like SubPunch Medicham, the CB is not needed on this big guy (not that Banded Megahorn isn't amazing to spam against Pert should there not be a Skarm in the picture). The Chesto Guts thing is still one of my favorite things in Pokemon. The only thing I like to use sometimes is Brick Break over Focus Punch. You lose power against Skarm but if you can handle that it's awesome, plus you're still whittling it pretty nicely. In exchange you get to hit Snorlax/Regice way the hell harder, not get annoyed by fucking Forretress of all things, pummel Blissey/Porygon2 that try to get cute and not actually get walled by Magneton; this happened to me once when I was running FP and it was kinda depressing which is why I started thinking about BB. Not having to risk Megahorn against Tyranitar if it comes down to Hera facing it is also great obv. Not that Focus Punching the shit out of Skarm isn't a great button to click, but I find having the freedom of a safer Fight STAB comes in handy a lot. Oh yeah breaking screens (most commonly Reflect from Jirachi or Celebi) is also lots of fun.
    - Endeavor + Roar Swampert
    The first time I faced this and it Roared my Recovering Celebi out and I realized the predicament I was in, I was absolutely blown away. I didn't know I was playing Asta at the time but I immediately marked the set down for my own use, it's absolutely genius. Love it love it loveee it.
    - Kingler and Hariyama
    Knock Off is amazing against everything. These two are proof of that. They make defensive teams a real bitch to play, they're worth the slot. I wonder if Sableye is worth anything at all...
    - Sharp Beak MixMence
    Fuuuck that is cool. I like it a lot. Sometimes MixMence gets annoyed by Celebi and that just kills me. Plus there's no room for any nonsense against Heracross which is great. Yeah this set is awesome especially with Spikes. I dig.
    - U-turn + Rock Polish Landorus-T
    Yeah this is sick. Reminds me of the same set used on Lando-I before it was banned, although that wasn't exactly bluffing Scarf like this does so nicely! Another item over Earth Plate might be useful, not sure the power boost does a ton for you in practice (not that it's not nice for absolutely brutal power, of course); even if it does, a wary opponent might calc the damage you're doing to his Ferrothorn or whatever and be like yeah that's not Scarf which makes it less scary. Of course offensive Land is an absolute beast even if you know its set, but it's cool to have as many weapons as possible - imagine facing some Protect shit and then popping the other move on them. I think the best item is something that'd pop up and potentially be a game-changer at the end of the battle, like Custap or Liechi or Yache... or something. It just can't be something the opponent can see so you can go with the Scarf bluff as long as possible.

    Moving on!

    ADV

    [​IMG]
    facts are lazy (Jirachi) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Doom Desire
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Shadow Ball
    - Body Slam

    Looks like Foggi beat me to the punch on my own shit, but this is my baby. I haven't tried Jolly yet but I'm a big fan of power, and I almost never find use for +Spe Zap/Mence/Jira/Cele. DDtars are speedier than ever now! Yes, I'm aware that's not the only benefit. Not being able to get a 31 Speed IV is a shame, but anyway... I'm so glad I finally decided to try this puppy in a tournament setting. A little over two years ago, Triangles and I were testing this thing out and marveled at its wallbreaking power. I finally decided to give it a shot on a serious team and it's gorgeous when it works, which is... often, to say the least. Lures Tar/Bliss like a motherfucker and CB HP Fight smacks them (even bulky Tar just fucking drops lol), as well as Snorlax who you'll often stand off against. Here is an example of how brutal it can be. The amount of things that becomes nigh-impossible to switch in to when there's a CB Doom Desire backing it up is kinda nuts. In the video linked, CALLOUS dubbed it a potential metagame changer... I can only hope.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers / BrightPowder / Lum Berry
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Mild / Rash Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Dynamic Punch
    - Fire Punch
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    DynamicPunch Rachi is incredibly dangerous if it hits, but 50% is more than just a little shaky. Paralysis turns the odds into your favor since even if you miss they can full para, and there's the bonus of parafusion. BrightPowder is a recent addition, it was suggested to me kind of as a joke but it actually works beautifully. No Lefties might make them wary that it's not a CM set, but even once they know the set it's still a really nasty Poke to face with just about any team. That said, BP puts the dreaded Odds even more into your favor, and dodging a Dugtrio is one of the best feelings ever. undisputed used a team of mine with this set in the finals of ADV Cup. Leftovers goes a long way in this game so that is something to keep in mind unless you've got Wish. Lum could be useful too, getting a second life against a para from Bliss/Ice/Lax/Mag or sleep/burn from Gengar can be big.

    Speaking of Wish, both these Jirachi sets work beautifully with...

    [​IMG]
    facts are straight (Salamence) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest / Rash
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Toxic / Brick Break
    - Wish

    I first used this last year when I felt a lot of offensive teams I was making were getting worn down too quickly. I've never really liked defensive WishMence, although it does blank an occasional team nearly by itself. This, however, was exactly what I was looking for. I believe Ojama used this set on one of his more recent teams and it worked very well for him. I partnered my CB Rachi with this thing this year, although it didn't get to show itself off. The last move depends on your team, all options work fine. Toxic is cool because it can keep the opponent hurting while you Wish up to your other big guys, and is good for the Milo/P2 that blank standard MixMence.

    [​IMG]
    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 224 Def / 44 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic
    - Surf
    - Roar
    - Protect

    Looks kinda silly but actually works great. I've always liked Pert's other utility moves, and always find myself missing one. I was making a ProTox team in an attempt to vent my frustrations about the strategy by using it. I forget why but I ended up wanting Roar (probably something to do with Cune/Lax) and couldn't decide whether to keep IB or EQ. I did have a Pursuit Tar and Magneton but both of them seemed janky for common switches like Gengar and Skarmory. badabing suggested Surf and turned this set from silly gimmick into viable beast. It works like your standard defensive Pert (be careful of DDMence obviously) but instead of thudding against some bulkier guys it can Toxic shit pretty nicely (making it even more of an asshole with Protect) and Roar is really useful, like when your Skarm gets Magged and you want to delay their Curselax. Getting to run Bold is also fun because you beat other Perts! Make sure you can handle Metagross/Jirachi obviously. Tesung and I changed the finals team to also include this set because it rules so hard. SpDef survives Modest Zapdos HP Grass, because you never know. Life is irregular.

    [​IMG]
    Flygon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 224 HP / 252 Def / 32 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Rock Slide

    PhysDef Flygon, an attempt at a Tar/Aero check/counter that doesn't get jackhammered by sand and spikes - because Claydol sucks! This set's pretty sick actually. Protect lets it play like Pert in regards to Lefties and works great with Toxic (duh). To continue with the obvious Pert comparisons, the ground immunity ends up being unbelievably useful against CBGon teams (who often also pack Spikes!). You need support for it to work since you're doing jack shit to Skarm/Gar but it's so worth it because Gon's other switches (waters, grounds, P2, Mence) get fucked up real nice. Support also goes a long way in actually annoying bulky Celebi who eventually catches on. HP EVs are also cool cause Modest Zapdos HP Grass does kinda sting bulkless Gon. You can mix up the tankiness on this thing, I just wanted to be as anti-physical as possible.

    DPP

    [​IMG]
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Calm Mind
    - Protect
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    I was playing around with SubCM Kou, a rather forgotten threat, and started thinking about Protect as an alternative... because I was RD Kingdra weak and thought it'd help me stall the rain turns. It was kinda useful for that funnily enough but it's actually amazing overall! Even when you're at 15%, you can gain that extra turn of poison damage (since Toxic Spikes are obviously its best friend) against Swampert / Tyranitar and then put them away. Raikou really doesn't like losing its health and Sub is often counterproductive (not that there isn't little scarier if it gets going). You scout Scarfers beautifully, and there's also the fact that free Leftovers is so good especially when you consider how much of a pain Zapdos can be. Protecting out of priority range is a great feeling too, and stuffing Magnezone's Custap is just amazing. Obviously this works best with Rain Dance Kingdra for some clear skies, and the two help overload Tyranitar pretty quickly, especially with TS.

    Raikou should always be shiny because even though it looks worse it's not good to let the opponent know you don't have Aura Sphere. Sweepage and a few others have taken a real liking to this, which makes me feel good about myself. Overall, Kou has a lot of great properties that offensive teams like a lot (that I could go on for days about, and gladly will if someone asks) and I think this set is great at bringing those out.

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Choice Band
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Mach Punch
    - Close Combat
    - Blaze Kick

    It's not just a meme b/c of my name, this is really what I use. Half the reason CB Ape doesn't slice through teams sometimes is because its Fire STAB is basically a suicide move. However, Fire Punch is the alternative, and it's pathetically weak (barely over 50% to OHKO bulkless Shaymin/Jirachi from full lol)... or so I thought until I remembered Blaze Kick exists and it works beautifully. The difference in BP from Fire Punch is very noticeable. It's not quite Flare Blitz, whose power difference is biggest against defensive teams, but... Ape tends to just die by using the move before it can make a HUGE difference against those teams, and this set can actually make use of Blaze more than standard Band. Against defense your aim should be to U-turn around with SR up more than anything else anyway. Anyway, Blaze Kick gets the job of Fire STAB done WITHOUT KILLING YOU IN THE PROCESS. It's a big fucking deal. Oh no, 90% accuracy! How horrible! Anyway yeah I enjoy this very much. It even has a high crit rate, wow! I think some other guys (Ojama?) have taken a liking to this set as well. Also works fine on physical Scarf obv. Just realized it might be the best solution/compromise for the rare SD sets too, and as I mentioned at the beginning of this post it probably works real nice on that defensive set...

    BW

    [​IMG]
    neverwhere (Slowking) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 96 SpA / 136 SpD / 16 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Scald
    - Slack Off
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    I've always liked the idea of Dragon Tail on Slowking just because phazing is good (and Pokes like King don't often get access to those moves which makes it look really cool), especially in such a hazard-infested metagame, but I finally found practical use. Some people like Reymedy/Tesung/McMeghan have used a bulky Nasty Plotter to counter Reuniclus, which is a good set. However I've always been partial to Jirachee's all-out attacker. Then I had a team with King where my only Reun counter was a CBtar, with everything else as setup fodder. I actually didn't consider NP, but my past results with it weren't great (although that's probably more thanks to the not-so-great teams I used it on). I did, however, see that with Dragon Tail, I could simply blank the Reun and chase it out, preserving my Tar to kill it later. Plus, it's always useful to have a phazing move, which is something the majority of Ferro teams miss out on. There are so many potentially dangerous situations you can dig yourself out of with one - denying (a second) setup to a large amount of threats is valuable beyond words, as you can see here. EVs can be lots of different things!

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet

    There's no definitive set obviously since everyone uses different shit on their defensive Lando depending on team/preference but I will take credit for this now-standard(ish) set that I started using at the beginning of this past season of Tour. I even use this on a few offensive Landos bc I love it so much! I've seen RH Lando twice before in BW - WhiteQueen in WCoP 2013 finals and Leftiez in SPL 5 - but other than that, it only existed in ORAS before I came up with it a few months ago when thinking about ways to handle Excadrill, which I was paranoid of seeing as I like me some sand teams. I realized Helmet is the perfect way to do this - it even punishes Drill's Spin, and here I was just looking for a way to not get swept by it! It's obviously great for a million other reasons - Tyranitar, Garchomp, Dragonite, Scizor, U-turns, even guys like Ferrothorn and Gyarados, the list is endless. Even just switching in to Intimidate, say, CB Kyurem's Outrage actually punishes it in some small way so you're playing offense even while on the back foot (putting it in range for Alakazam or something), which is why I love RH so much. Works beautifully with Ferro to really make them regret just about any physical attack they might have. Generally you want it on a team that can also strike back and just needs a backbone to get the big guys in to make up for the lack of Lefties (although I never found those terribly useful which is part of why I started using RH). Wish / Leech can go a long way too! Hell if you manage to spin/keep rocks off that's probably all you need to get the most use out of the helmet.

    I feel like I half-assed this despite writing a fuckload so I will probably come back and edit. Think I might've forgotten some but for now I'm satisfied. For now, uh, let's discuss some of the sets posted! That's fun. That Kingler is a real cunt, lemme tell you...
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  15. UD

    UD

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    I've always wanted to use a bulky Flygon, but never could figure out the spread or moveset I wanted. Will definitely be giving that a try! I've also seen you using that Swampert in random ladder matches and wondered what the inspiration for it was. Thanks for giving your insight. I agree that it's usually a difficult decision deciding which of Toxic/Protect/Roar you want on Pert, but you cleverly used all three. Funny enough, doesn't that Pert + bulky Flygon have amazing defensive synergy?

    Call me old fashioned, but I hate Brightpowder on anything :p It was a banned item back in NetBattle, so this is my official "Get off my lawn" moment I guess.

    Thanks for posting these!
  16. BKC

    BKC
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Champion

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    1,618
    Actually my ladder team was the ProTox team I mentioned and it originally had both those Pert + Gon sets. I eventually dropped Gon for Reflect Celebi to better deal with waters and physical attackers + Mag, but the idea was there and it could definitely work!

    Now that I think about it, HP Ghost is probably a pretty good last move. Everything you can do to make Gengar worse is good, you do actual "damage" to Celebi/Claydol/other Gon... I think you'll generally handle Mence/Aero more or less the same in-game, but you would have to be more careful around certain Zapos variants.
  17. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

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    Don't forget that it stonewalls the odd SunnyBeamer too! Suicune folds to Solarbeams; not so with Kingdra. Sadly a more relevant perk than the Vap matchup, as all you can do to Vap is stall it, and Vap eventually wins on PP.

    One funny idea I've had when considering Kingdra is using Octazooka for Water STAB.

    Pros: gives you the cheese potential of both smokescreen and dragon breath in the same set

    Cons: weak and inaccurate, making ground-fighting pretty difficult

    If I were to pull the trigger on gimmicking like that, I would probably pair Kingdra with Clefable. Para + accuracy drops = plenty of chances to luck yourself into a free +6.

    Also Ice Beam is a realistic option over one of the STABs. A water that can both damage and tank Zapdos and Exeggutor can be surprisingly dangerous against certain teams (no bulky water/kou/bliss), judging from my own frustrations when using such teams and encountering a ladder noob that freezes my curselax with an ib Kingdra (lol).
  18. Drangonn.

    Drangonn.

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    689
    hi im bad at adv but I like it so w/e

    heres band sciz

    212.gif

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Ability: Swarm
    EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Silver Wind
    - Steel Wing
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Baton Pass

    So basically a couple days ago I was bored af and sad that oras was getting boring again. So, in the drab wait for it to become fun, I decided to play adv. I then remembered how I firmly believe protox lefties skarm is broken. Then I felt determined to come up with a skarm lure. EVeryone knows the classic mixmence, or brave lax, etc etc. SO I innovated bp sciz into mag. cb sciz is generally a cool mon to use, you can hit stuff like pert for ok damage WITH the caveat that you dont get bopped and OHKOd the same turn which is great. Bliss, mence, you name it, it doesnt like cb bug/steel stab unless its a steel type, in which case just bp into mag and get your FREE kill! Pair with dd rock slide mence and/or birdspam/normalspam/anyspam for best results. tagging The real UD because he wanted to see this. If not for my team being hilariously weak to 4 attacks mie, I swear this wouldve done more than kill regice, but it's cool nonetheless.

    Try it out! Innovative skarm lures never hurt a fly.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  19. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT'S FINK DUMBASS
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 8 HP / 104 Atk / 212 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Ice Beam
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower

    Previously, Jirachee posted an Expert Belt Tyranitar set here and I believe people like Posho have also used similar sets, but this is my personal take on it and I've been having lots of success with this lately, so I thought it would be good to post.

    Unlike Jirachee's set, this Tyranitar does not function as a Stealth Rock setter; the sole purpose of this Tyranitar is as a mixed attacker. Not only does this set function as an incredibly effective lure, but it also can break through many mixed cores regardless of the opponent's knowledge of the set (although it's certainly ideal to minimize the information you disclose on your set until it's time to take advantage of the set). Below, in the hide tags, you can see many calcs that pose as examples for what this Tyranitar can do, but in case specific explanation of the EV spread is wanted, the spread is as it is because:
    • Speed allows you to outpace: Adamant max speed Tyranitar (so CB variants), 0 speed Lando-T (some SR variants), 0 speed Rotom-W (fair amount of the SDef variants), non +speed Magnezone (pretty much all non-scarf variants), non max speed Politoed (pretty much all non-scarf variants as they often run some HP over speed), bulkier Heatran, non-custap Skarmory, all Jellicent, and bulkier Scizor.
    • Special Attack allows you to: kill max HP Starmie after SR w/ Dark Pulse, kill Ferrothorn w/ Fire Blast, almost always kill PDef Skarm (always w/ SR) w/ Fire Blast, 2HKO CM Reuniclus at +0 and then +1 w/ Dark Pulse if it were to CM while always surviving Focus Blast from 0 SAtk Reuniclus, 2HKO Jellicent and Mew w/ Dark Pulse when they think they're safer due to Will O Wisp, 2HKO Slowking w/ Dark Pulse, and almost always kill Excadrill w/ Fire Blast after SR.
    • Physical Attack allows you to: almost always kill offensive Heatran w/ Superpower after SR, OHKO Kyurem-B w/ Superpower after SR and Sand, almost always kill Terrakion w/ Superpower (always w/ SR), and OHKO Hydreigon after Sand w/ Superpower.
    The best way to use this set is on a team that's reliant upon pokemon that want Steels and/or Lando-T/Garchomp/Gliscor killed as it most effectively lures and kills those types of pokemon. Teams with this set should pretty much always have one of, if not both, of the common 'standard' grounds on their team (Garchomp and Landorus-T) solely because they compliment this Tyranitar very well (either SR or Scarf variants, usually, but SD variants abuse the fact that opposing grounds, Latios, and Skarmory can potentially be taken care of by Tyranitar). This set doesn't necessarily need to bluff Scarf or anything per se, especially if your SR setter is already revealed because then the opponent almost assumes Scarf or Band, but if you happen to use Superpower first, then the opponent literally completely disregards the prospect of you being mixed, so use that to your advantage if it comes into play.

    Calcs (open)
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 360-427 (102.2 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 283-334 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 326-386 (97.8 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 281-331 (66.2 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 187-223 (44.1 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 280-332 (81.6 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    104 Atk Expert Belt Tyranitar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 276-326 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    104 Atk Expert Belt Tyranitar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-B: 288-341 (73.6 - 87.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - kills after Sand if SR up
    104 Atk Expert Belt Tyranitar Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 317-374 (97.8 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    104 Atk Expert Belt Tyranitar Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 317-374 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO - kills after Sand and always if -Def
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Jellicent: 233-276 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 233-276 (77.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 245-290 (60.6 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Slowking: 197-233 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 348-410 (96.3 - 113.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    104 Atk Expert Belt Tyranitar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 437-516 (121 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    212 SpA Expert Belt Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 269-317 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



    ----

    I have some other sets that I've tried, to varying levels of success, but they're not as effective on a consistent basis as that Tyranitar set. With that said, I feel like they're very viable options on certain builds and, therefore, I will share them, but not go as in depth or try to sell you the set to the same extent (not trying to write a novel here, but after writing up Politoed, it's apparent that I have :|).

    [​IMG]
    Politoed (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe or 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk (changes if you use HP Grass)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Encore / Hypnosis / Hidden Power [Grass]

    This set is interesting because it is one of those non-choiced offensive Politoed that have been on-and-off trending since late 2014 (you saw a lot of Chesto Resto in tour 18-19, Water Gem sprinkled throughout SPL 6 - st 21, and the occasional wide lens w/ blizzard+hypno that I think Ojama and a few other frenchies used at various points) and, unlike the aforementioned Chesto Resto variant, it is able to increase survivability without having to give up a valuable turn to rest. Personally, I find this set to be incredibly useful because it can cripple the opposing Jellicent, Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Slowking, etc....[insert any non-Celebi/Starmie (Nat Cure) grass/water type that Poli lures in due to their defensive capabilities) w/ Toxic and/or Hypnosis (HP Grass for Gastro if used) while still possessing decent offensive presence, the ability to set rain, and increased survivability w/ Sitrus, which comes into play a majority of the time.

    The EVs depend on what your team prefers. Max Special Attack is mandatory, more or less, because it maximizes damage output, but I change the amount of HP and Speed I use on each team. The first spread, with 64 Speed EVs, hits 192 speed and, therefore, should outpace all bulky Jellicent, Skarmory, and 0 Speed Heatran. The second spread, with 136 Speed, is a quicker alternative that hits 210 speed, which basically outpaces all of the aforementioned pokemon, 0 speed Rotom-W, and some CB Tar, but now they're running max Speed Adamant more and more, so an alternative to the 136 Speed thread might be 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe because this outpaces max Speed Adamant Tyranitar and 0 Speed Landorus-T (also, 0 Speed Roserade and other base 90s, but they're not very common).

    Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are mandatory as attacking moves, with Hydro as strong Rain boosted STAB and Ice Beam as the primary coverage option of choice. Then, Toxic is, more or less, a staple because it hits so many bulky waters that are used as teams' primary, but the last slot is a bit of a toss-up depending on the team. Usually, I find myself using Amoonguss or Breloom on Rain, so I forgo hypnosis for Encore, but if a team lacks an alternative sleeper, then Hypnosis is probably ideal for Ferrothorn, Amoonguss, and even hitting a bulky water or other pkmn that doesn't mind toxic as much (like Rotom-W or Slowking -- former is in and out often, so it doesn't wrack up while the latter has regen) that you still want limited or crippled. HP Grass is only to be used on teams that lack solid Gastrodon coverage, which is very plausible on a Rain team. If you use this w/ TSpikes Tenta, you generally use HP Grass over Toxic, but otherwise HP Grass is limited to the last spot and it's really a rare option nevertheless.

    Calcs for 192 HP spread (open)

    252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 192 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 177-208 (47.9 - 56.3%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO - always lives 2 after SR thanks to Sitrus, but can ironically enough die to 2 without SR up if the first is min and the second is max as the first, then, wouldn't have activated the berry

    28 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 164-194 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO - always lives 2 after SR thanks to Sitrus, but, like the above Keldeo situation, can die to 2 without SR if the damage works out that way, but less likely given this variation

    252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 192 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 171-202 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 153-180 (41.4 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Always safe from the latter, but the former Politoed is safe from being 2HKOd after SR thanks to Sitrus, but it can end up fucked if there's min-->max like the first two, as well.

    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 252-298 (68.2 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 228-268 (61.7 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Not entirely relevant to the item, but always nice to have a gauge of how much this does in case you lack a secondary "answer" (not that Politoed is the most reliable answer seeing as it's often Pursuited, needed to set up Rain, and not the most durable pokemon regardless of item, but it's still cool to note -- Bug Gem Volc at +1 has a 50% chance to kill w/ Bug Buzz, however).


    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Chople Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA (these are the HP Grass IVs, but HP Ice IVs are different and both are viable)
    - Magma Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Taunt

    I was stuck in teambuilding - I needed a Steel type because Tyranitar, for Latis, and Landorus-T, for physical dragons, wasn't enough to cover all of the Dragon types in the tier seeing as I still lacked a resist, I needed an Alakazam check because the rest of my team was vulnerable to it and my quickest pokemon was Scarf Tar (although I did have some prio), and Giga Volc of any kind fucked me...but I only had one slot left. This Heatran initially seemed incredibly situational to me and I almost threw out the whole team or backtracked significantly in building, but I do recall Tesung using a similar Heatran for the purpose of getting rid of Alakazam w/ Magma Storm in the past (was it you? it was someone testing for SmogTour or SPL in the past year, but not too recently, idr specifics) and I used Chople SR Tran w/ Fire Blast on a Weatherless Offensive team during Week 1 of SPL (already had Roost SD Scizor for Alakazam on that team, but Chople helped for numerous reasons and I just wanted reliable damage, so I went w/ Fire Blast).

    Getting into the gist of the set, Chople is nice for a variety of reasons - Alakazam Focus Blast, Tyranitar Superpower, Hydreigon Focus Blast, Brelom Mach Punch, Reuniclus Focus Blast, Keldeo Secret Sword, Terrakion Close Combat, Tornadus Focus Blast, Gengar Focus Blast, and Toxicroak Drain Punch to name some. The most ideal situation is: Heatran vs Alakazam, Alakazam uses Focus into Chople, Heatran survives easily, Heatran uses Magma Storm to break Sash and then the effect of the move kills Alakazam, and the thread is eliminated while Heatran is still alive. Taunt is nice to stop bulky waters and slower pokemon from recovering. I had HP Grass first because I was weak to Gastrodon and wanted Rotom-W chip damage on that specific team and it's a direct import from that team, but HP Ice is equally viable for the 4x pokemon and Dragons in general.

    edit: check the edit down below, but i must've been mistaken @ the general concept...still worth using solely based off of the merit of chople, but not as ideal as one would like

    Calcs (open)

    252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 225-265 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 128-151 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 209-247 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 173-204 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 134-160 (41.4 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 279-328 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Tornadus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 181-213 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 158-187 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 132-156 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chople Berry Heatran: 133-157 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 173-204 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chople Berry Heatran: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO

    Replay (open)

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-192870 - ended up using this team vs Ciele in BWLT. It actually did very well, but I got styled on late game after digging my way out of a hole and lost, so rip


    BKC didn't you ask to hear my rational behind Durant a long ass time ago? well, your wait's finally over -- it's like 6 months overdue, though. Also, someone mentioned to me that Tokyo Tom used this in the past or at least theorized about it in the past, is that true? If so, let me know your thoughts -- interested in what others think!

    [​IMG]
    Durant (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Superpower
    - Thunder Fang
    - X-Scissor

    Ant. This thing is actually really fucking strong, like holy shit. There are some checks, but very few counters and the checks are vulnerable to it to some extent, too. Landorus-T is the main pain-in-the-ass to Durant solely because Intimidate + bulk makes Durant far less threatening and LandoT can 2HKO w/ EQ while it shrugs off any attack on bulkier variants while it outpaces w/ the Scarf variant. With that said, I wouldn't actually mind using Durant on a serious/semi-serious team given how much damage it does, the fact that it isn't too frail on the physical side (good defensive typing, too), and it has a superb Speed tier.

    It uses these four moves because they, more or less, maximize coverage. Thunder Fang is used over Rock Slide because it gets the same kills Rock Slide would, bar Volcarona and Ninetales, but also hits Skarmory, Keldeo, Jellicent, Tentacruel, etc. Iron Head + X-Scissor + Superpower is the dual STAB combination in conjunction with Superpower, which gives Durant solid overall coverage, similar to offensive Scizor, that hits pretty much everything it needs to. EVs are straightforward, but it's worth noting that Durant outpaces Keldeo and Terrakion with the 109 base Speed and hits like a truck with Hustle (see: calcs below) while it has enough physical bulk to tank a fair amount (see: calcs below), so it's an unexpected hard hitter that has an actual defensive presence, speed, and it's a Steel type...that is a lot of things going for Durant, if you ask me, so I experimented with it a fair amount and got decent results (see: couple replays below, but I didn't use it a ton due to my personal break from BW after SPL, when I tested it out, and then creating new teams after, so Durant kinda got shelved for a bit).

    Calcs (open)

    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 179-213 (54.7 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 140-166 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 221-260 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 268-317 (82.9 - 98.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Tentacruel: 255-302 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    -1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 165-195 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    -1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 136-161 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 135-159 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 235-278 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 148-175 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 312-369 (88.6 - 104.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 226-266 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 426-502 (110.6 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Gliscor: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 207-243 (48.5 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Mew: 354-421 (87.6 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO & 100% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (only idiots run this little Spd on Mew tho)
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 390-460 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    0 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 187-220 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 212-251 (69.9 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 195-230 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Politoed: 309-364 (80.4 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 400-473 (123.4 - 145.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO...chople mag fucks it tho!
    252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 203-239 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Replays (open)
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-195091 - loser's bracket semi-finals of BWLT vs Luckstard.
    http://www.mediafire.com/file/j5pjq3neu5vwk2p/Gen5OU-2016-03-04-aurious-finchinator.html - replays were down when I played Aurious in SPL w/ Durant during week 8, but I won that match although I'm pretty sure Durant was fairly useless, but that was the origin of my Durant usage (bar a lot of test games and wanting to meme b/c my team was out)


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Mow @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Will-O-Wisp

    I love using this w/ Pursuit support, but it's also just pretty fun in general because despite Rotom-C being fairly shit in BW OU in general, it managers to be incredibly annoying to deal with. It usually finds its way in due to not that bad natural bulk (not very good either) + the typing in conjunction w/ levitate and once it's in, something's getting crippled or damaged if you play it properly. Modest nature is because it still hits 270 with that, which outpaces +Speed Loom/Poli, neutral DNite/Mamo, all non-Scarf Tar, and Adamant Toxicroak, so all you really lose out on is +Speed Mamo, +Speed Toxicroak, Lucario, and +Atk Drill, which I view as very minimal compared to the SAtk boost - either nature works, though. Anyway, this set is annoying to face, it's fairly productive, and the dual STAB + HP Fire covers pretty much everything that isn't a Dragon type or Heatran, which is nice and can lead to forming some solid Rotom-C cores.

    Calcs (open)

    252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-C Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 259-307 (73.5 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-C Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor: 326-389 (94.7 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO, kills w/ any entry hazard and kills every offensive variant 100% of the time
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-C Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 262-310 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-C Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 346-410 (101.1 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-C Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 175-206 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Replay (open)
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-191430 - BWLT playoffs vs Reymedy, Rotom-C did a bit, but had he not forfed, it cleaned him out late game...shows a bit about the rain match-up it gives, I suppose, but also standard Ferro Lati teams in general get fucked up by Pursuit + this Rotom-C if played aggressively and properly


    This last one is partially inspired by McMeghan, who mentioned something about a Sash Medicham w/ Fake Out in the past, but I found this to be a more consistent alternative.

    [​IMG]
    Medicham (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pure Power
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - High Jump Kick
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Ice Punch

    Honestly, Medicham is fairly mediocre before you go on and try to slap it onto your team as some balanced breaking powerhouse, but it does do a fuckton of damage and it can break through the conventional walls w/ its STABs, get the occasional LandoT lure kill w/ Ice Punch, or damage faster pkmn significantly (like Alakazam) w/ Fake Out. Overall, I find it far from useless, but also far from being viable to the extent that I would use it regularly, but there are a few occasions that I could see meriting it being used on a serious OU team, they're just all sorta dependent on the opponent and the other team members. For example, if you face someone who uses that old school kinda Hippo-Skarm/Ferro-ScarfTar kinda balanced (i.e: Hippo/Skarm/Hydre/ScarfTar/Starmie/Scizor is something I've used before, iirc, and people had similar builds in the past, but the last time it was seen as anything remotely common was like ST18) or any slowpaced team, really, then Medicham is a nice counterstyle pokemon, but I wouldn't run it blindly and when using it, I'd use it with a strong scarfer to dictate momentum against offensive teams as well as a distinct bulky-offensive core to help gain the upper hand on offense because Medicham is rendered much less useful in those games (maybe it gets 1 non-fake out attack off if it's lucky, but normally it fakes out 1-2 times and then is used as fodder down the line). I'll stop rambling and just show some calcs so people can see how strong it is!

    Calcs (open)

    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 216-255 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    -1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 322-380 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 337-398 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 187-222 (46.4 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 191-226 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 192-227 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 308-364 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


    Hope people give some of these a try and enjoy!

    Edit: H-C - are you sure about that??? I'm 99% sure I had an alakazam of mine die to it

    Only explanation was that I forgot Magic gaurd on that zam because there was no sand or hazards at the time (was using Zam on rain, which wasn't up yet either, and it was then 4 or 5 iirc)...

    The only game I've competitively (outside of 2-3 random SmogTour test games) used the set was the replay VS ciele I linked, so I honestly don't know, but I'm fairly positive it worked against me and the idea was to abuse magma Storm doing that.

    Edit 2: well you're right according to SEREBII, must've mismade my alakazam oops
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  20. H-C

    H-C

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,371
    I believe you're wrong with that one, Magic Guard preventing Alakazam to die from Magma Storm but overall the Chople berry is nice to have on Heatran sometimes for the other reasons you pointed out.

    Also I really love Durant too, been using it w/ CB some times and it deals some really massive dammages. Some of these are nice sets that I'm sure going to try, thanks for sharing them
    badabing, Finchinator and Luigi like this.
  21. UD

    UD

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Cool set! It sort of reminds me of an old Crobat/Aero set with only two moves - Sleep Talk and Whilrwind. If you can get it put to sleep then it's the ultimate Spikes abuser.

    The only thing I wonder is why not Toxic > WW on your set? Not much stuff carries Rest anymore, and the only ones who do that would also consider switching in on Aero are like CroCune I guess. The WW + Swagger seems a little counterintuitive. Confusion + Flinch chance is gonna force a lot of switches on its own, so he's gonna be a good Spikes abuser regardless of the presence of WW on the set. With Toxic, at least you ruin those Perts/Claydols/Donphans/etc. even more. Of course Steel types would murder the set then, but at least they have to step on Spikes to come in on you and you always have an out with Swaggeer, like you said.

    Just my thoughts :)
    Tokyo Tom and Foggi like this.
  22. Foggi

    Foggi Tournament Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    I agree with UD, this set with toxic instead of ww would have a good niche on a team with magneton and alot of Physicals abusers like Metagross,Tyranitar and Salamence. It would work similar to the Toxic Metagross/Ddtar sets that are becoming even more popular nowdays while still being able to revenge alot of stuff thanks to its high speed. However on the Toxic version of that aero set i would consider running a more offensive spread to have a better shot at revenge killing multiple threats.
  23. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    5,046
    Question is what does max HP do for you when you're not really planning on getting hit, and when you do it's a Substitute? I know it's not outright counterproductive to invest in HP like it is a Subseeder, but you could consider investing in Attack just to give Rock Slides more of a punch or focusing on a defense (probably physical Defense due to Rock's resistances) to boost your odds of having a Sub not break in a single blow.
  24. boudouche

    boudouche
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,124
    [​IMG]
    Heracross @ Custap Berry
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit

    with gliscor being less used due to the sand veil ban, i wanted to try heracross. its not as bulky as machamp but it tanks hits for sure (ex: it lives heat wave from offensive zap after SR) so i decided to give it a custap berry. guts is necessary for the piece of crap wow rotom is. it also lures a choice band / choice scarf set, pretty cool!

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Power Herb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Earthquake

    it makes me sad to see bulky grass mons walling gyarados just because they run protect or sub, ice fang doing jackshit. power herb + bounce helps you beating shaymin, abomasnow or breloom and it also helps in some cases (ex: starmie at 70% recovering on the first bounce turn).

    ---

    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 248 HP / 88 Def / 172 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Slack Off

    two years ago i tried to find a use for slowbro but i gave up because its just bad. i wouldn't say slowking is amazing but its a legit answer to various stuff like offensive heatran, rain kingdra, empoleon, machamp, mixed flygon, infernape, etc. if i'm not wrong, it can take 2 close combat from choice band infernape and a rain boosted hydro pump + draco meteor from life orb kingdra, after stealth rock for both calcs. you can use psychic over ice beam/hp elec if you are afraid of gengar.
  25. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    What is the purpose of custap over salac

    love the pherb bounce to fuck loom

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