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Other Viable Megas
- Thread starter thedotwalks
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Mawile's great strength is that she's hard to counter because of that gigantic attack, even Pokemons such as Heatran need to be careful.
Say someone send Heatran into max attack Mawile using Rough Play, that's a 4X resisted move.
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) (Move 1) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 87-103 (22.59 - 26.75%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 156-184 (40.51 - 47.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
This is at the VERY minimum a good 63% of his health she takes away, closer to 40% if we take into account leftovers, but that's gigantic anyway. And that is on the common Heatran set with the most defense.
If we pick a standard offensive set
Rough Play : 252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 88-104 (27.24 - 32.19%) -- 72.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Sucker Punch : 252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 157-185 (48.6 - 57.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
75-90% Damage, and that's without Leftovers. If Hazards are in play its chances to die are relatively high, and if it comes already damaged it's pretty much done for.
Some Mawiles even carry either Stone edge or Brick Break, switching in either of them seals the deal for Heatran. Stone Edge can't OHKO a 100% Health Heatran, but guarantees Sucker Punch will do it.
The only Pokemon that can shrug most of Mawile's attack is Skarmory, but even Stone edge can shave a good 40% of its health, and Fire Fang takes it to a minimum of 45% Health lost.
Basically, Mawile has no absolute counter, depending on what she carries she's extremely hard to switch into, and can defend herself against many of or so called counters.
And that's without hiding behind a substitute or a sword dance boost.
I think we can all agree that Mega Blaziken and Mega Gengar are light years ahead of the others and pretty much make every other Pokemon in OU look like a joke. After about a week or so of playing online on Wifi, the ones that have impressed me most are Lucario, Mawile, Absol, and both Charizards. The ones that have either been the most underwhelming are Heracross, Gyarados, Venusaur, Aggron, and Manetric. I also think people are selling Mega Alakazam short. 150 base speed is no joke, and it's not like it's Magic Guard variant fared much better against scarfers/prioirty. Sure in most cases you'd probably be off just grabbing a Life Orb or Focus Sash, but this thing isn't as worthless as, say Mega Gyarados.
One Pokemon I find interesting is Mega Ampharos. It's got it's flaws for sure *cough*Draco Meteor*cough*. But it's got decent bulk for such a hard hitter and an interesting typing to boot. It's secondary STAB hits IMO the two best Fairy-types in OU in Azumarill and Togekiss for SE damage, and considering how most Steel types are physically oriented, they shouldn't be a problem either. There's also a number of interesting support options on this thing. At first glance, it doesn't look like it has enough tools to succeed in OU, but I can't help but get the premonition that there's a useful Pokemon here somewhere. I for one wouldn't be surprised if I woke up one day and suddenly a shiny new Mega Ampharos set is the shit. Now lets get that Draco Meteor onto Ampharos please Gamefreak.
One Pokemon I find interesting is Mega Ampharos. It's got it's flaws for sure *cough*Draco Meteor*cough*. But it's got decent bulk for such a hard hitter and an interesting typing to boot. It's secondary STAB hits IMO the two best Fairy-types in OU in Azumarill and Togekiss for SE damage, and considering how most Steel types are physically oriented, they shouldn't be a problem either. There's also a number of interesting support options on this thing. At first glance, it doesn't look like it has enough tools to succeed in OU, but I can't help but get the premonition that there's a useful Pokemon here somewhere. I for one wouldn't be surprised if I woke up one day and suddenly a shiny new Mega Ampharos set is the shit. Now lets get that Draco Meteor onto Ampharos please Gamefreak.
Yeah, that's the chief complaint. Thing is, and this has been said before, it's hardly a big deal Venusaur has reliable recovery already. So, not that big of an issue.
It's not like leftovers are a form of reliable recovery, either. So, having them on isn't that huge unless you have no recovery at all.
Something that might be good news for Mega Tyrannitar and Mega Abomasnow is that when they mega evolve they reactivate their weather ability. If you play your cards right that could mean a double weather boost. I'm not sure how it would work if you Mega evolved while the weather is up, if it adds to the count, refreshes it, or does nothing. Depending on the affect these mons could be a must have for weather teams. I mean, if mega evoing adds to the weather turn count, you can have a 10 weather turn count off the bat. any thoughts?
If the weather is already up, it won't add to the count
The only other move is sludge bomb, but 4 attacking is pointless really.
NPBomb or SunBeam
That and the fact that it's offence is very underwhelming for something with 120 SpA. Poison and Grass just aren't good STABs and forces Venusaur into 4 moveslot syndrome on pretty much every set.
Are you kidding? Lack of Leftovers is a huge issue for any wall. Often times you'll find yourself switching in to soak a hit and then immediately coming back out. This is especially important for pivoting. The only playstyles that don't need pivoting are stall and hyper offence, two playstyles that have pretty much been turned insignificant by 6th Gen changes, especially Defog. Even if Defog didn't exist, Venusaur wouldn't fit on a hyper offence team anyway.
I just think for Megasaur we are going to have to rethink tactics with him for most effectiveness. He has 4MSS BAD, but enough good tools that he can prevail on the right team. I think he should abuse Stun Spore and Sleep Powder. He is a fantastic switch into most fighting pokemon (Blaziken Infernape aside) and paralysis is the worst status for any sweeper. If he paralyzes at least two opponents then he did a good job for your team. During which the improved Giga Drain helps a lot as does Leech Seed. I think he should try to spread as much paralysis as possible and the enemy has to try to kill you and be able to move whive you sap health with Giga Seed. Even if he doesnt kill anything, he can easily set the rest of your team up to do so. The advantage over using something like a Prankster for this purpose is Megasaurs good defensive typing, bulk and health capabilities allow him to cripple more of the enemy's te am more reliably. thats my take anyway.
Wrong. Gen 5 Mawile has access to Thunderpunch, which 2HKOs Skarmory. Mawile is never going to counter anyone... but it is going to bring down walls.
I did a few calculations in the Mawile thread that I thought I'd share here. Mega Mawile +2 Suckerpunch OHKOs Garchomp. Let that run through your mind for a little bit... (Not that it is safe to leave Mega Mawile in: Mega Garchomp outspeeds Play Rough and survives the Sucker Punch. But if you know its a CB Chomp or something...)
Venusaur doesn't learn Stun Spore.
My thinking is, that Leech Seed is still a really good move. And Venusaur's poison STAB means it can destroy anything (short of Ferrothorn) that is immune to it. I think there's a lot of potential there. Give it a solid fire-type partner (like heatran) and it can do a lot of damage. Trying to play it like it did in gen 5 is a waste I think. It's not an offensive powerhouse because it just doesn't have the movepool to use it's special attack. Though a mixed set could have a lot of potential.
Depends on what he got through breeding, though I will admit that it likely isn't a whole lot. Also, and I've said this before, Poison is a lot more viable than it was before. Fairy pokemon are a nuisance to Dragons, and they appreciate a pokemon that can soak a hit from them and strike back with super effective shots. I will state that he'd be a lot better if he got something along the lines of Shadow Ball to strike pokemon like Heatran.
Nah, not really. Lack of recovery, as well as bulk, are two huge issues(Venusaur has neither issue). Leftovers is good, I never said it wasn't, but it does not in any way kill the viability of a wall as bulky as Venusaur. With his list of resistances, bulk, and neutrals; venusaur can afford to stay in and heal once in a while. He's also got Sleep Powder, which is enough to warrant some caution when switching into it.
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Which megas do you find the most useful. Nearly every mega is so-so. The biggest problem with megas is that the Megas all have their attack greatly increased, but their defenses are same. You can literally have the same attack with life orb. The only mega I find actually useful is gengar and scizor, but gengar's probably going to be banned.
Mawvile-mega is absolutely garbage. The offensive pokemons have evolved to the point that most of them can't be countered. As a result, counters are the main tools to deal with threats. Mawvile has terrible defense. Mawvile is easily countered. Heatran outspeeds and OHKO with any fire attack. Most teams have a pokemon that outspeeds and kills Mawvile
Mawvile-mega is absolutely garbage. The offensive pokemons have evolved to the point that most of them can't be countered. As a result, counters are the main tools to deal with threats. Mawvile has terrible defense. Mawvile is easily countered. Heatran outspeeds and OHKO with any fire attack. Most teams have a pokemon that outspeeds and kills Mawvile
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Mega Mawile wrecks Heatran with Sucker Punch, as Heatran does not resist it any more. Also, 50/125/95 isn't terrible. It's not great, but it works with its resistances.
Almost every mega got extra bulk. If you actually look at their stats page, you'd see that. Here are some examples:
Mega Aerodactyl got +20 in each defense stat.
Mega Pinsir got +20 in each defense stat.
Mega Venusaur got +40 in defense, and +20 in special defense.
Mega Lucario got +18 defense.
Mega Gyarados got +30 in each defense.
Mega Kangaskahn got +20 in each defense.
Mega Blastoise got +20 defense, and +10 special defense.
Mega Charizard X got +33 defense.
Mega Ampharos got +20 in both defense.
Mega Heracross got +40 defense, and +10 special defense.
Mega Houndoom got +40 defense, and +10 special defense.
Also, most megas make life orb irrelevant due to how close the power increase is when compared, as well as the fact that they do not take recoil. Please do a bit more research next time, as the statement that these pokemon got no extra bulk was wrong when looking at the numbers.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 91.37 - 107.54%
Volcarona is too busy having her ass thrown to the floor.
Bro. Bro, bro, bro. Mega Mawile is an absolute BEAST. A single swords dance in and she's already at 1356 attack. And she gets Sucker Punch. Do you know what 1356 attack behind a Sucker Punch does to most Pokemon? IT DOES A LOT OF DAMAGE. Mega Mawile will have a permanent place in my team for all of Gen 6.
Okay, first off who the hell is Mawvile?
Second off, since when has 50/125/95 been "terrible defense?"
Third off, your argument isn't particularly cohesive. You say that most offensive threats have gotten to the point where they can't be countered. You then go on to say that counters are the best way to deal with these threats. See the problem here?
Every pokemon can be countered, why even say that? If the only thing you can think of that checks Mega-Mawile is Heatran, that's a good thing.
I also take issue with your first statement. Saying that only the attack stats of the megas change but their defenses remain the same is just blatantly false. I can't actually think of a mega-evolution where that's true, although I'm sure there's one or two. Far from /all of them/, though. Yet another problem with your statement is that you portray getting the same power as life orb from a mega-evolution as a bad thing. If you deal the same damage when mega-evolved as you do when holding a life orb, mega-evolution is fundamentally better because you aren't taking recoil.
It's obviously a half-German Mawile.
Mega Absol does not get any boosted defenses. Just providing an example, though it's one of the few(if not only one) that did not get any bulk.
I would argue though that his ability Magic Bounce is an excellent defensive tool. He's almost entirely immune to status, confusion, Leech Seed, etc.; while being defensive for his team by blocking spikes/SR/SW.
Also, Lucario (+18 def) and Blaziken (10+ Def/SpD) have rather insignificant changes to their defenses. If a Pokemon was a threat to them before, I can't imagine that the defense upgrade mattered too much.
You'd be surprised, as it goes from a max of 262 to 302(figuring in beneficial nature and EVs). Not that bad of an increase.
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According to the research thread, Pixelate and Aerilate may boost all Normal moves that are converted to their respective types by an extra 30%. That makes Pixelated Hyper Voice a 180 BP move that hits through subs, and Aerilated Quick Attack a 80BP move with Priority. That's quite the buff, if true. Factoring in STAB, of course. Figured we should discuss this, as this even further increases the viability of certain megas.
Pixelate was the ability tested, and it could end up being incorrect information.
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That's a terrible example, though. Absol is an offensive pokemon with priority. It got it's speed boosted by quite a bit (moving from having the same speed as Garbador, to outrunning Serperior and Swoobat) and BOTH of it's attack stats got considerably boosted. It also doesn't take recoil from it's attacks, and it isn't locked in to one attack and easy to predict.
Not so much an example as just stating facts. Hardly any Mega pokemon did not get boosts. That was my point.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
There's a heck of a lot to take in from this thread.. I think with megamawile people have not mentioned even once that it should be running under trick room for the most part. It outclasses other megas in terms of being a capable offensive trick room sweeper. Aggron, Ampharos, and Abomasnow are all also viable in OTR and play different roles, but ultimately it is better than all of them, at least in OU/Ubers. I think it suffers only from difficulty in terms of switching in. I haven't found this to be very true, but bear in mind when it comes in it will be taking some minor damage at the least, which, with trick room requiring more switching and support, it can be quite difficult. I think it also suffers from 5-moveslot syndrome. If you run no sword dance, which, still working off of 658 attack, you have solid coverage in Iron Head/Play Rough/Fire Fang/Sucker Punch. In ubers you might want rock slide for it to act as a ho-oh lure, whilst in OU brick break is very useful to outright deal with heatran. Volcarona can cause issues with flame body, unless you run rock slide for that. And aegilash wins if it outpredicts, which isn't hard for it. So ultimately if it doesn't run SD then it hits like a truck but it has legitimate counters.
An alternative is of course to run sword dance. Still, you need to keep its pair of STABs and probably sucker punch, so you lose out even more against steels. Really, this set just fears burning form flame body or WoW [Sableye/MegaBannette/Jellicent on other OTR teams?]. Aegilash is still a legit counter to this set I feel though. The main other issue is it risks being 2HKOed whilst coming in an setting up, if you don't bring it in at an optimal time, as well as that it doesn't always outright OHKO its possibly counters. Despite solid defensive typing and usable defensive stats, in some ways it's the OTR equivalent of a glass cannon.
In terms of other megas, I think they all will have niches, albeit not in OU. I only feel gengar and blazekin will be forced into ubers. Scizor, peculiarly, I feel as if it will see more use as its mega forme in Ubers than in OU. The mega form loses out on the other benefits of hold items it could have, but the ability to counter ekiller, as well as fairies [and maybe 'spin' with defog], means that with its added bulk at the cost of some power, which is affordable, it becomes viable for teamslots in ubers teams.
Megagarchomp initially I felt was supremely outclassed by a mixture of itself and Kyurem-W. The loss of speed tier hurts. In all honesty, it does have 2 saving graces. Firstly, a strong movepool (although lacking DD). Secondly, Sand Force. I think the only time this will pose a more serious threat than anything else is when playing under sand, whereas otherwise it's fairly outclassed. Yay for bulk though.
An alternative is of course to run sword dance. Still, you need to keep its pair of STABs and probably sucker punch, so you lose out even more against steels. Really, this set just fears burning form flame body or WoW [Sableye/MegaBannette/Jellicent on other OTR teams?]. Aegilash is still a legit counter to this set I feel though. The main other issue is it risks being 2HKOed whilst coming in an setting up, if you don't bring it in at an optimal time, as well as that it doesn't always outright OHKO its possibly counters. Despite solid defensive typing and usable defensive stats, in some ways it's the OTR equivalent of a glass cannon.
In terms of other megas, I think they all will have niches, albeit not in OU. I only feel gengar and blazekin will be forced into ubers. Scizor, peculiarly, I feel as if it will see more use as its mega forme in Ubers than in OU. The mega form loses out on the other benefits of hold items it could have, but the ability to counter ekiller, as well as fairies [and maybe 'spin' with defog], means that with its added bulk at the cost of some power, which is affordable, it becomes viable for teamslots in ubers teams.
Megagarchomp initially I felt was supremely outclassed by a mixture of itself and Kyurem-W. The loss of speed tier hurts. In all honesty, it does have 2 saving graces. Firstly, a strong movepool (although lacking DD). Secondly, Sand Force. I think the only time this will pose a more serious threat than anything else is when playing under sand, whereas otherwise it's fairly outclassed. Yay for bulk though.
Well Mega Garchomp will most likely be used as a niche for being a destructive stallbreaker, and with extra bulk, it will likely have little speed investment to outspeed most walls, and be more invested in bulk to take hits more freely, and still hit hard, even outside of sand it will hit things like a truck, being an effective stallbreaker. But regular garchomp will be used mostly anyways
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