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Weather Whore (Tri-Weather Team)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Benbeebs, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    Using weather based teams became boring very quickly for me, but I figured there must be still more left to do with them. I mean, it's such a unique strategy. So I moved on to try and make a team that used three different weathers (rain, sunlight, and sandstorm).

    A glance at the team:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The overall strategy is simple. Each weather has two pokemon that correspond with it. For rain, Kyogre sets it up, while taking and dealing as much special damage as possible; Then Kingdra comes in with swift swim and a choice band to perform a physical sweep. For sunlight, Groudon sets it up, while taking and dealing as much physical damage as possible; Then Charizard comes in with solar power and choice specs to perform a special sweep. For sandstorm, Tyranita sets it up acting as an overall bulk, taking general damage and dealing heavy hitting physical damage; then Excadrill comes in with sand rush and swords dance to perform a physical sweep.

    The Details:
    [​IMG]
    Kyogre (WHALE) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 Sp Def / 248 Sp Atk / 8 Speed
    Nature: Calm
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    One Calm Mind as an opening move and WHALE quickly becomes a force the be reckoned with. Squeeze in a second one and the Pokemon becomes near sweep material with it's now massive special attack, STAB move Surf, an unbreakable special defense, and leftovers that can heal most physical damage done. Surf Covers most things. Ice Beam covers grass and dragon. Thunder covers water.


    [​IMG]
    Kingdra (SEAHORSE) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    Nature: Adament
    - Outrage
    - Waterfall
    - Yawn
    - Toxic

    With a Speed of 538, an Attack of 475, and the STAB move Outrage (120 Power), SEAHORSE is instantly sweeping material when in rain. Outrage guarantees 2-3 hits that will surely take down somewhere from 1-3 Pokemon. After this, the Outrage continues, but with the risk of hurting yourself in confusion. On average, it's able to take down about 2-4 opposing Pokemon. Waterfall for variety in attack. Yawn and toxic if you want to use him as a quick status ailment inducer when faced with a threatening opponent sweeper or maybe wall.


    [​IMG]
    Groudon (BEAR) @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Nature: Impish
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Punch

    BEAR is able to act as a physical wall, taking seemingly infinite physical damage, as well as putting up stealth rocks. Once the rocks are up, he can attack with Earthquake or Fire punch if the opponent is a physical attacker, or push their team through the spikes if the opponent is a special attacker, doing as much damage as possible before LIZARD comes in for the kill.

    [​IMG]
    Charizard (LIZARD) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Solar Power
    EVs: 252 Sp Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    - Flamethrower
    - SolarBeam
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power (Rock)

    LIZARD outspeeds almost any other pokemon with on overall speed of 327. His special attack jumps up to 475 with Solar Power, and jumps up again to 713 with the choice specs. With these stats and a well rounded move pool, he becomes a huge threat. Especially with his STAB move Flamethrower. A potential change for Charizard would be to remove the choice specs to allow great flexibility within his move pool

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (DINOSAUR) @ Chople Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sp Def
    Nature: Relaxed
    - Substitute
    - Crunch
    - Focus Punch
    - Ice Punch

    DINOSAUR is currently one of my weaker links on the team. Though he boasts great stats and good moves, he seems too vulnerable. The Chople Berry can usually buy him enough time to eliminate a fighting type threat. The general strategy is to substitute, and focus punch, or maybe crunch.


    [​IMG]
    Excadrill (MOLE) @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
    Nature: Adament
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Shadow Claw

    MOLE is able to out-speed his opponents with Sand Rush, similarly to SEAHORSE's set up. If he's in a safe enough position, then an opening swords dance means setting up for a massive sweep, however, due to his overall weak defense, this isn't a sure thing. Even without the swords dance, he proves to be a serious threat to the other team with a well rounded selection of moves.
  2. SuperCharizardMaster

    SuperCharizardMaster

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    Take it from me being a hardcore 'zard fan. He does not belong in UBERS One cannot get away with using this thing in a tier where you could be using a much better fire type like ho-oh
  3. Donkey

    Donkey

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    Only suggestion is Fire Blast instead of Flamethrower on Charizard. This is a great team and an iconic example of teams from the showdown ladder.
  4. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    The reason I avoided using Ho-oh was that it would leave me with only one special attacker, and therefore weak to physical walls or a defense booster. Also Charizard gets much better Sp Atk with his Solar Power ability, pushing his attacking power past Ho-oh's. And while his defenses and HP are lower, he is also faster.

    If I were to switch in Ho-oh, what would you suggest as another swap out to give me another special attacker?
  5. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

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    Then use Moltres man, It's better than Charizard. Also I don't think that team is good for ubers and I don't know a lot about ubers. I think you should only use dual weather If you want and not ttriple.

    Check the smogon stall ubers guide If you want yo get some ideas: http://www.smogon.com/bw/articles/ubers_stall
  6. saxtonhale

    saxtonhale

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    I certainly like the idea of triple weather, that can surely mess with your opponents.
    But please, don't use Zard :/ He's outclassed everywhere that isn't NU. You could definitely exploit Chlorophyll rather than Solar Power, maybe on something like Venusaur. Hell, maybe even Victreebel.
  7. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    As far as Moltres goes, Charizard out does him with Solar power special attack and speed. And I am mostly doing triple weather just as a fun challenge. The idea is to make the best team possible, while forcing myself to use three weathers. Also it confuses the heck out of opponents.


    I've been looking into doing that too. Then I would have the Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, Sand Rush combo for my sweepers in each weather. I think I'm going to try out Venusaur.
  8. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

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    No, that's a bad idea imo. You can use weather abusers with dual weather but not a pokemon that does nothing If you change the weather. I suggers you to use kyogre AND Groudon If you want. First of all quit the Charizard and replace it. Keep the Excadrill beacause is a good spinner.

    You will need another revenge killer, Excadrill is situational.

    Also remeber that ARCEUS can be every type with If It's holding a plate, so If you hape problem with electric types you can use Arceus-Grass for example.

    Well, I don0t know a lot about Uber Dragons, but I don't think you have something to check them apart from Excadrill. Also be carefull with Reshiram If you're using SUN.

    To solve that you can try a mixted wall (I don't know a good mixted wall now) or a scarf dragon that can outspeed Rayquaza after a DD and Lati@s.
  9. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Shadow Claw only hits Giratina-O...Earthquake outdamages 150-140 on all other viable ghosts.

    I read this RMT from the bottom up, so after seeing that Excadrill lacked Rapid Spin, I was going to protest the inclusion of the orange flying type you put on your team. I then realized you weren't using Ho-Oh, instead opting for Charizard (!!?!) I wouldn't even run Ho-Oh without Rapid Spin support, and it is a million times better than Zard, so please replace it. Actually I can tell you won't, so just put Rapid Spin on Excadrill over Shadow Claw so it isn't crippled as soon as it enters the field of play.

    You are running not one, but two non-attacking moves on your band Kingdra (which is outclassed by Band Kabutops, due to the latter's much greater attack power and ability to check stuff like Steelceus and EKiller). Replace Band with Life Orb and make Kingdra mixed with Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor.

    Sub Punch TTar is a very special set. Congratulations on being the first (and last) person to try it out. Alternatively, you could try Superpower or Low Kick>Focus Punch and nix Substitute for Stone Edge. Finally, I would use physically defensive Hippowdon over TTar with Toxic, Whirlwind, Slack Off, and Earthquake so that any physical Arceus with Extremespeed doesn't 6-0 you after Groudon has taken some damage.

    So Rapin Spin>Shadow Claw, Hippowdon>Tyranitar, and Mixed Life Orb Kingdra>Band Kingdra. Good luck with Charizard.
    TheCanadianWifier likes this.
  10. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    I've been looking into a defensive Hippowdon as a replacement and I think I'm going to try it out. I threw rapid spin on the Excadrill, that's a much better idea. I don't like having Ho-Oh though because then I only have one special attacker. I guess I will try it out though. It also didn't really fit in that it doesn't take advantage of the weather through an ability the way the other ones do.
  11. Champion Steve

    Champion Steve

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    While other people have commented on the individual members of your team (very politely I thought God, Ubers players are jaded) I'd like to ask about the actual team composition. You have three weather starters and three Pokemon that really need their weather to be up to be useful. So to use half of your team you must have brought in the corresponding weather inducer, previously. This seems exceedingly difficult to pull off in battle and even more so when one considers how frail the abusers are by Ubers standards.
    Also, Banded Yawn? Really?
  12. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    Yeah it's a difficult set up for sure. I never said it was going to get you to rank #1. I've designed teams before whose goal was solely to win and gotten as far as #33 before I decided it was no fun. This team is different and harder to execute than most, but to me that makes it more fun and I can actually feel good about a victory.

    And about the banded Yawn. I honestly could have the move pool just be Outrage and nothing else. SEAHORSE is basically just used to dent/sweep their team until it dies. It brings up a point that explains the difficulty of the tri-weather, and that is that, in general, the "weather dependent" Pokemon are put into play once their corresponding "weather inducing" Pokemon has done as much damage and set up as possible, and then been KOed. So this means that once SEAHORSE is in, switching out would be stupid. he can still do damage later, but he looses his speedy edge. This is why moves like Toxic and Yawn exist on him. If I absolutely HAVE to switch out, I can bring him back in later to maybe try and do some damage.

    Thanks for the comments! I'd love to chat more and go in detail about the challenges of using a tri-weather team and the benefits of using a tri-weather team.
  13. saxtonhale

    saxtonhale

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    I agree with Sweep, I say just switch to CB Kabutops, he's amazing and does more for your team. Plus, then you can put Rapid Spin on Excadrill!
  14. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Amazing team. Keep up the good work. Only changes I can make are blast burn > flamethrower to maximize zards power.
  15. Magcargo

    Magcargo
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    My only suggestion is to use reshiram instead of Zard. Reshiram has a better typing, better STAB combo and unlike charizard, isn't complete S*** in Ubers.
  16. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    Yeah, I'm currently trying on fixing the Tyranitar and Charizard slots because they were my weak points. Charizard was actually doing a hell of a lot better than eveyone is saying. I don't think they realize how fast he is and how ridiculous his Special Attack is with Solar Power. But nonetheless, it could be better I guess. I'm trying out Ho-Oh now but I will try Reshiram next. Thanks!
  17. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Alright! It's my turn! I'd highly suggest using Blastoise > Kingdra and Venusaur > Excadrill. Because if you don't use all the starters, I don't see why you're playing Pokemon in the first place.

    C-c-c-combo breaker! Instead of just leaving you with just a sarcastic answer, I guess I'll just break it to you and inform you that your team is rather poorly built. Hopefully, I don't offend you by saying this, but though the concept is unique, it's executed rather poorly. To be honest, using all three weather starters alongside highly dependent weather abusers is a terrible idea. As soon as one weather starter goes down, the corresponding weather abuser goes down the toilet, as the teammates you've chosen have barely any viability outside of their preferred weather. Multi-weather is definitely a cool thing, so I'll just leave this thread here. It might give you a better sense of how multi-weather works. There's not all that much written, but it should help a little bit. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-lost-art-of-ubers-multi-weather.3480707/ I'd highly suggest you just use dual weather instead of triple weather. Groudon + Kyogre can work decently well, so I think you should just drop Tyranitar, but that's up to you.

    Charizard is an awful Pokemon in Ubers. It might seem decent on the PS! ladder, but that's just an illusion created by the clusterfuck of awful Ubers players on the ladder. Solar Power gives it a respectable damage output in sun, but seeing as you have three weather starters and no form of hazard removal, it's pathetic. Replace it please, preferably with Palkia or Latios. Palkia has the movepool to abuse both forms of weather (Hydro Pump and Fire Blast), while Latios helps patch up the Grass-type weakness and is a solid special attacker. Kabutops, as mentioned before, is probably a better choice for this team, as it has the ability to check Arceus-Normal and does an excellent job cleaning up. Your current Kingdra moveset is extremely inefficient, and if you're insistent on using it, run a mixed variant please.

    I'm not really sure where this team is going, so I'm going to stop typing now. Please try and make this team more competitively viable. I know you're doing this for a challenge, as you've said before, but it'd be nice to see some good RMTs.
  18. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    You are a sassy little man! Am I offended by your criticisms and advice? No. Could you have been a little kinder and less conceited? Possibly.

    There's definitely some good advice in there. First of all, I know that dual weather may be a better option, but the goal was to use three weathers. Also, there are essentially two ways of doing a tri-weather team. You could have a two pokemon for each weather (inducer and abuser), or you could have the three inducers, and then three abusers that don't necessarily pair up with a specific weather. In other words, multiple abusers could abuse the same weather, and each could abuse multiple weathers. This is more what you are suggesting, which is a completely different approach, which it got so confusing when you tried to re-work it. It's like pulling it out from almost the very base and restarting.


    I don't really see how having dependant pairs of weather is a "terrible idea". It has kind of changed the dynamic of my fighting strategy a little bit in that it's more about leaving them in and doing as much damage as possible until they die, then doing the same with their abuser. It's more of a "pedal to the metal" kind of feel that is focused on spewing out damage and hoping that their sources deplete before yours do. So the goal is to make sure that that always happens.

    I am currently, if you might have read the previous comments, working on replacements for Tyranitar and Charizard. I have also added Rapid Spin to Excadrill's move set. Maybe later on I'll try reworking the team to be more like what you are suggesting. I tried to do that with an OU team but there quickly becomes so much overlap and complexity that it gets extremely difficult to create or use.

    THANKS!
  19. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    I'm surprised no one mentioned how stupidly weak this team is to any team with a phazer.
  20. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    If they're going to have a phazer, they probably only have one, and I probably know exactly who it is because you learn who they are. Generally, enough damage can be done before the forced swap. It can get in the way, yes, but I'd hardly say that it's crippling or anything.

    If a weather inducer is out, you have a 1/5 chance that it will switch to that weather's abuser, a 2/5 chance at a different inducer, and a 2/5 chance at a different abuser. So in 3 out of five of those scenarios, you can just roll with it and take them out, and in the other two you have to kind of reset and test your luck again.

    If a weather abuser is out, that generally means that it's inducer is KOed, so you're running a 50/50 chance, which is bad news, plus you don't really want a new weather because that abuser needs it. However, the abusers are built to deal massive damage, and because of their guaranteed beginning priority against a phazer, there is a good chance that they'll just OHKO the phazer, or at least put a big enough dent in it to the point where who ever is brought out can finish it off.


    Definitely a good point though. It's just something you kind of have to deal with it you're going to build a team like this. Never said it was a good idea, but it keeps things fun and keeps me on my toes. I hate using a team where I'm exactly sure of how things will turn out, and I just bulldoze through the ladder.
  21. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    The problem is just how much it hurts synergy, which is essential in effective team-building. I understand that you want to challenge yourself and do something different, but it simply isn't possible to force yourself to use tri-weather with weather dependent Pokemon and at the same time try to make a competitively solid team. Simply because the nature of competitive Pokemon is such that it relies on the strategic switching of Pokemon and the cooperation of the team as a whole, all of which is just much less viable in a team like this (because the team lacks synergy as a whole and 2/6 Pokemon are essentially unviable at any given time). Being, in a sense, unable to switch freely is just a big limiting factor when switching is so crucial to succeeding in the metagame. This is made worse by the fact that you have 2 choiced Pokemon; choiced Pokemon really prefer to switch freely, as they can easily be locked into moves that barely hurt whatever the opponent switches in.

    There is also the matter of shared weaknesses between Pokemon in a team like this. Rayquaza, for one, is a huge problem, since it can ignore weather and outspeeds everything except for Charizard, while dealing huge damage with whatever attacks it happens to have. It's unlikely to ever quite 6-0 you, but it could be quite devastating, especially played well. Arceus-Grass is also very problematic. It may not be very common, but it can usually reliably beat Kyogre, Groudon, Tyranitar and Hippowdon (although a Kyogre that's healthy and gets a CM on the switch will probably win). It's also usually considered an answer to swift swim sweepers, but with Choice Band Kingdra can outdamage its healing (although Arceus manages to Thunder Wave and gets lucky with parahax or Kingdra gets unlucky with confusion, Kingdra will be in trouble). Even so, I faced a team very similar to this one somewhat recently and Grassceus singlehandedly forced the opponent to ragequit.

    So I'm with others who are saying that your best bet is to use Pokemon that may abuse weather but are also great outside their preferred weather. Palkia is great in rain and sun, and sand doesn't hurt it much. Ho-Oh is a superb Pokemon in general, but especially shines in sun. Ferrothorn appreciates rain because it survives a lot of fire attacks it otherwise wouldn't, but even in rain it usually succumbs to fire attacks quite quickly, so the loss of rain is not a huge one. It also takes no damage from sandstorm, which works really well with the residual damage it provides (spikes, iron barbs, leech seed). And so on with many Pokemon. The team will most likely not really be tri-weather in the sense of having specified abusers for each weather, but if you make a team that builds around the strengths of the weather starters (Groudon as a physical wall, Kyogre as a wall breaker or revenge killer or something else, Tyranitar as an anti-lead, etc) and throws in Pokemon that work well with the rest of the team and in each weather, I think there's potential for a very solid competitive team that uses three weather starters. If you try to really make a tri-weather team in a similar fashion to single weather teams, however, I think you'll find the result disappointing; the synergy is just too poor to stand up against well-constructed teams played well.
  22. Benbeebs

    Benbeebs

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    Thanks for the advice! Yeah I'm trying out a few replacements now and might end up ultimately looking into a team with more vague weather abusers so that I have some more room to breathe. Good suggestions.
  23. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Charizard is better than Moltres in Ubers due to Drought+Solar Power. Charizard hits much harder and the extra 10 speed it has over Moltres is tremendously important.

    Not saying either is as good as Ho-Oh but Charizard's access to Solar Power trumps Moltres's access to Hurricane, which is useless in Sun anyway.
  24. shmogi

    shmogi

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    If you use Zard
    You're gonna get kicked
    in the nards
    worst children's rhyme ever.
  25. sammao

    sammao

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    I agree with blizefan that using three weather abuser is a terrible idea. However, using three weather starters isn't that bad. After all, the three pokemon are very solid in uber. I suggest you to just make a standard offensive team with synergy around each member and you can still have a team with three weather starters, if that is what you want. In fact, you can just keep the current kyogre and Groudon (except replace Rocky helmet with leftovers) set, slap a Choice band on T-tar (and of course give it legit attacking moves), and work from there. For example:

    As all the three weather starters are weak to grass and you need a scarfer, a scarf Genesect is a good addition

    Genesect@choice scarf Naive nature
    252Atk/252Spd/4def
    -U-turn
    -Ice beam
    -Iron head
    -Explosion

    You need something to check opponent Kyogre, and a Latias is a good choice
    Latias@ Soul Dew Timid nature
    164hp/148 SpA/ 196 Spd
    -Draco Meteor
    -Grass Knot
    -Recover
    -HP Fire

    The last team member is up to you, although I suggest something that is not weak to spikes and has priority, such as a Giratina-O
    Giratina-O Adamant nature
    216 Atk/252 Def/ 40 Spd
    -Wil-O-wisp
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Outrage
    -Dragon-tail

    Of course, you can really choose a bunch of other pokemon that you think will fit your team better, just make sure that they can synergize well with your weather starters. Hope I help
    Benbeebs likes this.

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