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Weavile(BW2 Revamp) [QC: 3/3][GP: 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by CedOmega, Jan 15, 2013.

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  1. CedOmega

    CedOmega

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    Ok. Thanks Pocket. I'll have everything written up hopefully as soon as next Monday, no later than next Friday, if not before then.

    EDIT: Seemingly finished editing. Didn't think I'd have time to do it, but apparently I did, so it's once again up for review. Please let me know if I neglected to add any imput suggested by Pocket.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks for making the changes CedOmega. I found some more changes, though:

    Overview
    Add the phrases in blue. Also move this sentence up where you were talking about Weavile's Pursuit-trapping prowess (why do you have this under cons?)

    Set Comments

    You missed this:
    Other Options
    ^ move both parts to AC, since you're talking about alternative options for the main set.

    Checks and Counters
    Remove Volcarona, since it's not a Fighting-type -.-;; I think we also established that no Fire type other than Infernape (a Fighting-type) and ScarfTran (which you already mentioned) are safe switch-ins to Weavile.

    EDIT: Alexwolf, Weavile almost always have Night Slash :o
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Actually Pocket bulky Volcarona can set up on Weavile even after SR, provided it comes in for free, and Weavile is set up bait for Volcarona without Night Slash and with SR off the field. So it does deserve a mention in c&c as a check.
  4. CedOmega

    CedOmega

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    Ah. I'm sorry for having missed those changes. I'll be able to fix them around noon tomorrow. Thanks.


    EDIT: Changes suggested by Pocket have been addded. I'm quite sure that I added them all this time. Lol.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Sorry, CedOmega, for not getting to you sooner :X

    It's Expert Belt (two words).

    Remove Heatran; this is a paragraph on Fighting-types, which Heatran clearly isn't.

    There's nothing much I can check now. I do think your prose is a bit choppy and lacks continuity, so I suggest some proof-reading and some self-revision to lessen the load on GP checkers.

    QC Approved (3/3)

    EDIT: Hm that's very true, Gimmick - thanks for bringing that up! CedOmega, please bump Weavile's Speed to 228 Spe, and AC mention max Speed to outrun opposing Weavile if you haven't.
  6. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

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    I know the whole speed thing has been mentioned before, but if you're going to speed creep, you should really go for 228 Spe EVs to outspeed Scarf Gothitelle (and Scizor, but it would Bullet Punch regardless). And at that point, the bulk will make absolutely no difference anyway, so you might as well just go for max to speed tie with other Weavile. I apologize for posting this after QC 3/3, but I just wanted to mention this because I didn't see a post talking about Scarf Gothitelle.
  7. CedOmega

    CedOmega

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    Ok, thanks Pocket. I made the suggested changing. I'll read over it and see what mistakes I may have made, to lessen the stress for the GP checkers.

    Now that I have all the Q/Cs needed, am I supposed to change the tag to Copy Editing? I think I'm understanding the instructions to this thread correctly, but I want to be sure.
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    You got it!

    Additionally, add [GP 0/2] to the end of your title to indicate the amount of GP checks, which is, at the moment, 0. Good luck, Ced.
  9. CedOmega

    CedOmega

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    Ok. Thanks, AccidentalGreed. I appreciate everyone's help, too. :)
  10. GatoDelFuego

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    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]​

    <p>Since its debut, Weavile has always been what is known as a niche Pokemon. However, the introduction to BW2 hasn't done much to change this. It is noteworthy that there are many Pursuit users, but only a few handful of Pokemon such as like Weavile can really pull it off effectively, while not being a liability outside of Pursuit-trapping. Weavile also seems to works well with new BW2 threats, such as Keldeo and Sheer Force Landorus, as its most common checks are included in the list of the select Pokemon Weavile can trap and KO. Ice Shard also revenge kills many dangerous threats, namely Rock Polish Landorus and +1 Salamence. Its amazing 125 base Speed allows it to outrun significant threats like such as Alakazam, Starmie, and Scarftar. Combined this with access to Pursuit, Weavile can allows it to prey on many top Ghost and Psychic types of OU; namely Latios, Gengar, & and Starmie. Although, However, life is not so short and sweet for Weavile. Both old and new counters still pose the biggest threat to its longevity in battle. Scizor, Gyarados, and the B/W introduced Keldeo, (AC) and Volcarona are still major problems for Weavile still pose major threats to Weavile. Add a weakness to Stealth Rock the common Stealth Rock weakness to this, and you'll find Weavile requiring a lot of support from its partnersring team members. As for its shortcomings, the lack of high-powered moves to complement its high Attack has to be its greatest flaw, as it struggles to maim Pokemon that it hits neutrally or even super effectively at times. Weavile has an especially tough time breaking past Water- and Steel-types taking neutral damage from that are neutral to Low Kick. Evaluating it all, one will see the reason behind Weavile remained OU in the previous generation.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Physical Attacker
    Move 1: Ice Shard
    Move 2: Night Slash / Ice Punch
    Move 3: Pursuit
    Move 4: Low Kick
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Jolly
    evs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The standard Life Orb set makes the most of Weavile's best attributes: base 120 Attack, 125 Speed, powerful STAB Pursuit, & and priority Ice Shard. The main attractions here are its exceedingly useful Ice Shard and Pursuit. With these moves in tow, an Outraging Dragon is never truly safe, fearing a swift icicle to the face in the middle of its rampage. With 228 Speed investment, Weavile can outpace everything necessary in OU, while the remaining 28 HP EVs investment adds bulk as it takes repeated Life Orb damage. The spread allows Weavile to be faster, namely than Alakazam and anything slower, (AC) (including Starmie, Latios, and Tornadus). While switching in is almost never advisable, Weavile can usually catch its targets after they take something else out, leaving them trapped, helpless, and vulnerable to the inevitable KO.</p>

    <p>Night Slash is preferred to be used when bulky Water threats pose a problem for its team. Night Slash also hits certain Pursuit targets for super effective damage, such as Jellicent and Starmie, thereby punishing these Pokemon if they are ever bold and decide to stay. Night Slash also allows Weavile to connect with Water-types (Rotom-W, Politoed, and Tentacruel) and Jirachi for strong neutral damage. On the other hand, Ice Punch is certainly useful for hitting Dragons Ice-weak Pokemon for strong damage, while actually threatening to KO Pokemon like such as Hippowdon, Amoonguss, Gliscor, and Landorus-T if they decide to stay. It also punishes Conkeldurr who that would otherwise set up on Weavile with ease.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is arguably one of the most useful moves in the game, punishing predicted switches and effectively trapping enemies. Pokemon such as Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Latios, (AC) and Latias. Keep in mind that Latios and Latias may require prior damage to be KOed by Pursuit on the intended switch. Using this against bulky Psychic types, such as i.e. Reuniclus, is not advised, as they don't fear a weakened Pursuit while Weavile can be hit by a status move or Focus Blast it as much as Weavile fears being statused or OHKO'ed by Focus Blast.</p>

    <p>Low Kick rounds off Weavile's needed coverage, while also ensuring that it is not restricted to only two Base 40 power moves; Pursuit and Ice Shard. It is a major boon to Weavile's otherwise limited physical movepool, allowing it to lethally combat Steel-types, (AC) namely Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Magnezone. It's also a coverage move essential in nabbing quick and easy KOs against Tyranitar, Terrakion, Mamoswine, and offensive Kyurem-Black (after Stealth Rock).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set will require plenty of switching, making entry hazards a considerable factor in how you'll play in the match. You're also generally going to want Rapid Spin somewhere on your team in order to allow Weavile to switch in a maximum number of times employ the full extent of Weavile's capabilities. Starmie and Forretress work pretty well in this regard, but keep in mind you're going to have to decide between the lesser of two evils: a compounded Bug- or Fire-type weakness. To complement this, you'll really want something with Roar or Whirlwind on your team, preferably with a lot of physical bulk too. Gyarados, Skarmory, and Hippowdon immediately come to mind, though many notable walls will work well for this role and keep Weavile from becoming a liability once its done its job.</p>

    <p>Scizor and Volcarona checks are needed as well for Weavile to function efficiently. Terrakion and Dragonite handle Volcarona, Keldeo and Landorus-T check Scizor, and while Gyarados deals with both.</p>

    This entire section makes no sense. It talks about what teammate for weavile to be around with, but completely misses the point of Weavile in the first place. This talks about weavlie like the team is built around weavile, where it is actually a revenge killer/compliment to offensive teams that require certain threats gone or dragons taken out. Talk about offensive partners that appreciate weavile's ability to take out other dragons or starmie (Hyper offensive teams?)

    <p>Punishment is an option over Pursuit if your team needs some extra help in taking down bulky Calm Mind users. CM Calm Mind Latias, Reuniclus, (AC) and Jirachi are but a few examples that come to mind when considering Punishment. Another option for Weavile is Choice Band. Although it seems to bestow more power behind its attacks, it makes Weavile a very easy victim to a setup sweeper, i.e. such as Swords Dance Scizor. Having to choose between either Life Orb or Choice Band may be a difficult decision, although another item does make a nice alternative: Expert Belt. Expert Belt must be played very strategically, as it only grants its power boost when hitting super effectively. In a life or death situation, the standard items will serve you better.</p>
    Merge paragraphs
    <p>Brick Break could work over Low Kick, although you'll find the lack in damage inflicted will add up. Heavier foes are often its most common switch-ins, making Low Kick the superior choice.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Fake Out and Counter on a lead set could work to lure out and eliminate Scizor threats, however but Weavile is a much better niche abuser than a suicide lead. Swords Dance is an option over Pursuit, although Weavile doesn't find much time to set up in the current metagame and it would have to sacrifice its role as a revenge killer one of its infamous niches. Taunt is another option to help stop Volcarona and Gyarados from coming in and setting up on Weavile as they expect you switch out and score a +1. Pickpocket is an option over Pressure, allowing Weavile to utilize such items as Ice Gem, Dark Gem, Focus Sash, and Fighting Gem. Actually, why is this not the preferred ability? Explain why it shouldnt be used, because most of the time Pressure is 100% useless on weavile. Maximum speed EVs can be used to outpace other standard Weavile.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Weavile as a plethora of counters that are very abundant in the OU tier. Consequently, these commonly come it the form of priority moves, (AC) such as Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, & and occasionally ExtremeSpeed.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf users are a huge threat to Weavile, as they easily outpace and KO Weavile easily, with impunity. Such scarf abusers including, but are not limited to, Jirachi, Terrakion, & and Heatran. Keep in mind that not all scarf users are a threat, as such abusers that are weak to Weavile's attacks are often taken care of before they can become a threat. Said Pokemon include Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp and Landorus-I.</p>

    <p>Weavile also has a weak point to almost any defensively inclined Pokemon. Vaporeon, Gyarados, Forretress, (AC) and Skarmory wall almost all of its attacks; Vaporeon being especially troubling if Weavile its set lacks Night Slash. Skarmory and Forretress can more or less use Weavile as an easy opportunity to set up entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Gyarados and Volcarona, also Tentacruel and Politoed, deserve special mentions, being very effective at walling its set if Weavile is running with Ice Punch over Night Slash. Said threats can come in on, or after, a Pursuit or Ice Shard and set up in Weavile's face.</p>

    <p>Jirachi is a unique threat, as it can run a variety of sets that can either directly KO Weavile or status, often paralyze, it and spam Iron Head. Ice Punch variants that lack Night Slash often find themselves having a hard time denting Jirachi entirely.</p>

    <p>Scizor is Weavile's biggest direct threat, being able to come in easily and take little damage from all other attacks barring Low Kick, (RC) and use either U-Turn or Bullet Punch to finish Weavile off.</p>

    <p>Fighting-types are generally good for keeping Weavile in check as well. Conkeldurr is easily Weavile's biggest threat among them, as it can Bulk Up on a Pursuit-locked Weavile and continue threatening the rest of its team, or KO instantly with Mach Punch. Lucario and Infernape resist both of its STABs and can either set up or KO with priority. Infernape is a relatively safe Fire-type switch ins to Weavile.</p>

    All of these should be merged together. There's no point in having six one-sentence paragraphs


    There were a lot of flaws here. I know this is your first analysis, but there were many simple errors, such as using the &, serial commas, an accent in Pokemon, and like over such as, as well as trickier grammar mistakes such as incorrect usages of semicolons. There were even some simple spelling errors. I'd heavily recommend looking over the spelling and grammar standards, as the GP team's job is to correct grammar, not implement it for the first time.

    I'll mark this as GP 1/3, and it would also be great to have a GP member also on QC, because there were some issues with content lost in translation from QC recommendations to the writing. Rather than going back and fourth between QC and GP, having somebody able to fix both at the same time would be helpful.

    [gp]1/2+1[/gp]
  11. CedOmega

    CedOmega

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    I honestly apologize for having so many grammatical errors. I've not had time to proofread it as AccidentalGreed suggested to do.

    As for the Checks and Counters being so choppy, I did have them all in one paragraph, but was suggested to separate them in another suggestion... And after adding so many suggestions, I lost my context somewhere along the line.

    I've gone ahead and added most of the changes suggested. If I missed any, I'll fix them soon. Thanks.
  12. GatoDelFuego

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    I'm trying to speak with OP about rewriting a bit of this, so it would be great if nobody checked this at the current moment until things get sorted out.
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    Hopefully this Amcheck and the comments help you in your journey to be more involved in smogon. Add blue delete red comments below.


    Edit: Ah, fuck me. Well, I basically half re-wrote the overview, so maybe I should have seen this coming/requested it myself.

    Should I delete the check? (Feel free to delete it if necessary Mods, or even this entire message)
    Show Hide

    [Overview]
    <p>Since its debut, Weavile has always been a niche Pokemon. However, the introduction to BW2 hasn't done much to change this. It is noteworthy that there are many Pursuit users, but only a few handful of Pokemon, such as Weavile, can really pull it off effectively, while not being a liability outside of Pursuit-trapping. Weavile also works well with new BW2 threats, such as Keldeo and Sheer Force Landorus, as itstheir most common checks are included in the list of the select Pokemon Weavile can trap and KO. Ice Shard also revenge kills many dangerous threats, namely Rock Polish Landorus and +1 Salamence. Its amazing 125 base Speed allows it to outrun significant threats such as Alakazam, Starmie, and Scarftar. Combined with its access to Pursuit, Weavile canallows it to prey on many top Ghost- and Psychic-types of OU; namely Latios, Gengar, and Starmiein OU. However, life is not so sweet for Weavile. BCounters both old and new counters still pose the biggest threat to its longevity in battle., such as Scizor, Gyarados, Keldeo, and Volcarona are still major problems for Weavilethreaten its longevity. Add a weakness to Stealth Rock and you'll find Weavile requiring a lot of support from its partners. As for its shortcomings, the lack of high-powered moves to complement its high Attack has to be its greatest flaw, as it struggles to maim Pokemon that it hits neutrally, or even super effectively at times. Weavile has an especially tough time breaking past Water- and Steel-types taking neutral damage fromot weak to Low Kick. Evaluating it all, one will see the reasons behind Weavile remained OU dropping the previous generationo UU.</p>
    [SET]
    Name: Physical Attacker
    Move 1: Ice Shard
    Move 2: Night Slash / Ice Punch
    Move 3: Pursuit
    Move 4: Low Kick
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure/ Pick Pocket
    Nature: Jolly
    evs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>The standard Life Orb set makes the most of Weavile's best attributes: base 120 Attack, 125 Speed, powerful STAB Pursuit, and priority Ice Shard. With these moves in tow, an Outraging Dragon is never truly safe, fearing a swift icicle to the face in the middle of its rampage. With 228 Speed investment, Weavile can outpace everything necessary in OU, while the remaining 28 HP EVs add bulk. The spread allows Weavile to be faster than Alakazam and anything slower, including Starmie, Latios, and Tornadus. While switching in is almost never advisable, Weavile can usually catch its targets after they take something else out, leaving them trapped, helpless, and vulnerable to the inevitable KO.</p>
    <p>Night Slash is preferred to be used when bulky Water threats pose a problem for its team. Night Slash, and also hits Pursuit targets for super effective damage, such as Jellicent and Starmie, thereby punishing these Pokemon if they are ever bold and decidenough to stay in. Night Slash also allows Weavile to connect with Water-types (Rotom-W, Politoed, and Tentacruel) and Jirachi for strong neutral damage. On the other hand, Ice Punch is certainly useful for hitting Dragons Pokemon for strong damage, while actually threatening to KO Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Amoonguss, Gliscor, and Landorus-T if they decide to stay. It also punishes Conkeldurr that would otherwise set up on Weavile with ease.</p>

    <p>Pursuit is arguably one of the most useful moves in the game, punishing predicted switches and effectively trapping. Pokemon such as Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Latios, and Latias. Keep in mind that Latios and Latias may require prior damage to be KOed by Pursuit on the intended switch. Using this against bulky Psychic types, such as Reuniclus, is not advised, as they don't fear a weakened Pursuit, while Weavile can be hit by a status move or a Focus Blast.</p>
    <p>Low Kick rounds off Weavile's needed coverage, ensuring that it is not restricted to only two Base 40 power moves; Pursuit and Ice Shard. It is a major boon to Weavile's otherwise limited physical movepool, allowing it to lethally combat Steel-types, namely Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Magnezone. It's also essential in nabbing KOs against Tyranitar, Terrakion, Mamoswine, and offensive Kyurem-Black (after Stealth Rock).</p>
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>This set will require plenty of switching, making entry hazards a considerable factor in how you'll play in the match. You're also going to want Rapid Spin somewhere on your team in order to allow Weavile to switch in a maximum number ofmore times. Starmie and Forretress work well in this regard, but keep in mind you're going to have to decide between the lesser of two evils: a compounded Bug- or Fire-type weakness. To complement this, you'll really want something with Roar or Whirlwind on your team, preferably with a lot of physical bulk too. Gyarados, Skarmory, and Hippowdon immediately come to mind, though many notable walls will work well for this role and keep Weavile from becoming a liability once its done its job.</p>
    <p>Scizor and Volcarona checks are needed as well for Weavile to function efficiently. TerrakionGyarados and Dragonite handle Volcarona, and Keldeo, and Landorus-T and while checking Scizor, while Gyarados deals with all three.</p>
    <p>Punishment is an option over Pursuit if your team needs some extra help in taking down bulky Calm Mind users. Calm Mind, such as Latias, Reuniclus, and Jirachi are but a few examples that come to mind when considering Punishment. Another option for Weavile is Choice Band. Although it seems to bestows more power behind its attacks, it makes Weavile a very easy victim tofor a setup sweeper, such as Swords Dance Scizor. Having to choose between either Life Orb or Choice Band may be a difficult decision, although another item does make a nice alternative: Expert Belt. Expert Belt must be played very strategically, as it only grants its power boost when hitting super effectively. In a life or death situationgeneral, the standard items will serve you better.Brick Break could work over Low Kick, although you'll find the lack inof damage inflicted will add up. Hon heavier foes, which are often its most common switch-ins, makinge Low Kick the superior choice.</p>
    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    <p>Fake Out and Counter on a lead set could work to lure out and eliminate threats, but Weavile is a much better niche abuser than a suicide lead. Swords Dance is an option over Pursuit, although Weavile doesn't find much time to set up in the current metagame and it would have to sacrifice its role as a revenge killPursuit trapper. Taunt is another option to help stop Volcarona and Gyarados from coming in and setting up on Weavile, as they expect you switch out and let them score a +1boost. Pickpocket is an option over Pressure, behelping easier for Weavile to utilizeif it uses such items as Ice Gem, Dark Gem, Focus Sash, and Fighting Gem.</p>
    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    <p>Weavile has a plethora of counters that are very abundant in the OU tier. Consequently, tThese commonly come itn the form of priority moves, such as Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and ExtremeSpeed. Choice Scarf users, including Jirachi, Terrakion, and Heatran, are a huge threat to Weavile, as they easily outpace and KO Weavile easily, including Jirachi, Terrakion, and Heatran. Weavile also has a's weak point tois almost any defensively inclined Pokemon. Vaporeon, Gyarados, Forretress, and Skarmory wall almost all of its attacks; Vaporeon being especially troubling if Weavile lacks Night Slash. Skarmory and Forretress can use Weavile as an easy opportunity to set up entry hazards. Gyarados and Volcarona deserves a special mentions, being very effective at walling Weavile with Ice Punch over Night Slash. Said threatVolcarona and Gyarados can come in on, or after, a Pursuit or Ice Shard and set up in Weavile's face. Jirachi is a unique threat, as it can run a variety of sets that can either directly KO Weavile or status, often paralyze, it and spam Iron Head., and Ice Punch variants that lack Night Slash often find themselves having a hard time dentouching Jirachi entirely. Scizor is Weavile's biggest direct threat, being able to come in easily and take little damage from all other attacks barring Low Kick and use either U-Turn or Bullet Punch to finish Weavile off. Fighting-types are generally good for keeping Weavile in check as well. Conkeldurr is easily Weavile's biggest threat among them, as it can Bulk Up on a Pursuit-locked Weavile and continue threatening the rest of its team, or KO instantly with Mach Punch. Lucario and Infernape resist both of its STABs and can either set up or KO with priority.</p>



    Comments:
    I tore apart your overview. I don't care if you ignore every change of mine, but you need to do SOMETHING about it. It's full of fluff, obvious grammatical mistakes, and even untruths. Just look at your last sentence-who cares about the reasons why Weavile was gen 4 OU? All that matters is its tier now, and why.
    Are you supposed to talk about EVs before all 4 moves? I don't think so...
    One does not Lethally combat something.
    If you need SR for Kyu-B alone, parantheses won't say that specifically, or at least won't say it specifically well.
    You mention Counter on a lead set, at least say it needs Sash for that.
    Gyarados takes MORE damage from Ice Punch than from Night Slash. Why would it have an EASIER time if IcePunch>NightSlash?
    Gyarados and Volca can basically switch in on anything. Stab Slash or Punch is annoying but that's all and he's still forced out easily.
    Once again, say it with me:Conk sets up on ANYTHING, and he forces you out SO hard that he doesn't really need to worry about being hit by you.
  14. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    It is with a heavy heart that I step in here to do what I have to, but I'm closing the book on this analysis.

    The writing here is basically a paraphrased version of the original Weavile analysis, which on its head is unacceptable, but is made worse by the fact that it's not only lower quality, but also unnecessary competitively. The changes to this analysis amount to a 4-EV shift, the addition of an ability that literally should never be used (a question that was asked of QC, answered, ignored, and then never followed up on), and the removal of an ability. This is something that could have (and should have) been done in an hour on SCMS between a couple QC members, and instead has now taken more than a month and the concentration of multiple QC members and multiple GP checks, as well as the writing of the OP.

    As of right now, the analysis would have to be completely rewritten by someone more experienced in order to be acceptable for the site, but that's more effort and attention than this Pokemon needs or deserves at this time. QC, talk to me and each other and bang out a full set of changes, and we'll SCMS it in. To the OP, I'm sorry, and I suggest that you hang around a bit more, practice your writing, and get a bit more experience before you make your next foray into C&C.
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