Xerneas

[Ash Borer]

if you run a red card on your team xerneas cant help but be phazed, and thus it loses its power herb. Such a tactic has its limitations but, it stops a geomancy sweep cold and doesnt allow for any easy set up later.

 

[escarlata]

Also, iirc Red Card doesn't work if you get OHKOed.

Oh and why did you use normal Scizor in your calcs? Mega Scizor always avoids the OHKO from +2 Modest Focus Blaast after SR with the spread you mentioned, and can then setup with SD and OHKO back with Bullet Punch.

Red card plus endure? I'm sure there might be something that can run that along with other attacks and still doesn't become deadweight, I.e. something with unburden or acrobatics.

I used normal scizor because I was under the impression that it was bulkier with assault vest.

 

[Manaphy]

There are things that can be too broken even by ubers standards, such as Moody in Gen 5.

I'd rather not get in this discussion about moody (which is heavily luck based) but it's safe to say we won't be banning any Pokemon anytime soon.

Red card plus endure? I'm sure there might be something that can run that along with other attacks and still doesn't become deadweight, I.e. something with unburden or acrobatics.

Red Card Forretress is pretty good and can take a Moonblast.

 

[Atomsage]

Uhhh...do people still use Wobuffet?

 

[Mattman324]

There are things that can be too broken even by ubers standards, such as Moody in Gen 5.

Moody... was a special case. It was a luck based ability, and with reasonable luck you could have +6 evasion, obviously a negative thing to have in a competitive battle. Even then, in Ubers the pokemon held it back (Bidoof wasn't going to sweep there like it could in OU), until you had Moody Protect/Substitute/Stored Power/Baton Pass Smeargle to break the game.

 

[Theorymon]

I just want to make this clear: I don't want any more talks of banning Xerneas. Not only is that HIGHLY unlikely to happen (since this is Ubers), it's also REALLY early to talk about that kind of stuff!

I think that Xerneas is certainly going to be a top tier threat, I think the reliance on Power Herb to sweep its going to be it's Achilles heel. Towards the end of gen 5, Roar started becoming rather popular among top players, and with Xerneas being around, I expect that trend to continue. So against stall teams, Xerneas might have less set up opportunities than you'd think! Also, depending on how much of a boost Assault Vest is, you may have some stuff like Metagross giving it problems. It's still going to be an EXTREMELY dangerous sweeper that will probably change Ubers team building, but currently, I don't expect it to be unstoppable either.

Also, I'm certainly interested in that all out attacker set. I'm sorta tempted to try it out with Calm Mind. Now, I don't expect to sweep with that without paralysis support, but it might be useful against slower teams to get an extra KO or two. I think the all out attacking set isn't going to do as good against what offensive teams may be like in gen 6 Ubers, but I imagine that stall teams will have more trouble because phazing it won't cripple it too badly!

Finally, let's talk about Xerneas in Battle Spot. As some of you may know, Battle Spot is gen 6's version of GBU. I'm not sure about the ranked play rules, since Global Link is currently down, but apparently, free play actually ALLOWS Xerneas, Yveltal, and Mewtwo! In Singles, you can only chose 3 Pokémon. Because of the faster paced nature of Battle Spot, I expect Xerneas to be FAR harder to stop there! When I get a team together, I think I'm going to be forced to use something like Mega Sczior or Assault Vest Pokémon to actually be able to deal with this thing. Xerneas has the potential to be the king of Battle Spot! Hell, maybe Xerneas will make a lot of teams focus on heavy physical offense just to prevent it from setting up...

As for Doubles and Triples.. I don't have much to say there beyond the fact that I hear Dazzling Gleam is a spread move, so maybe that could be useful. As for Rotations, since you can keep boosts there and rotations don't take up a turn, I see this as another metagame where Power Herb Geomancy could be some really scary stuff!

 

[alexwolf]

Red card plus endure? I'm sure there might be something that can run that along with other attacks and still doesn't become deadweight, I.e. something with unburden or acrobatics.

I used normal scizor because I was under the impression that it was bulkier with assault vest.

Scizor can't use Assault Vest effectively. On defensive sets it wants Roost and Swords Dance and all out attacking sets prefer Choice Band.

 

[Breadroster]

So what do you guys think about nature and EVs for Xerneas? Thinking of going Geomancy/Focus Blast/Psyshock/Moonblast. I have a timid Sync. Ralts but some people here say that you dont need much speed? Is modest the preferred for a special atk Xerneas? :)

 

[Mattman324]

Effectively having a 2x Quiver Dance and Ubers broken speed tiers means there is absolutely nothing worth using Timid over Modest for.

 

[Breadroster]

Ok, thanks! I guess I'll be training my Modest Ralts instead :) Special is the way to go though? He has some good physical attacks but I don't know and I'm pretty unexperienced in competitive.

EDIT: Should I give him some speed EVs or just HP/SPATK?

 

[Aurinko]

Ok, thanks! I guess I'll be training my Modest Ralts instead :) Special is the way to go though? He has some good physical attacks but I don't know and I'm pretty unexperienced in competitive.

EDIT: Should I give him some speed EVs or just HP/SPATK?

Don't bother with physical moves, Psyshock at +2 serves you just fine against everything you're struggling with your special moves. Psyshock at +2 from a modest, 252 SAtk Xerneas does about the same (59% - 70%) damage as a Close Combat from the same set. You won't net the OHKO without significant investment in Atk- and another nature, which leaves you vulnerable on your defensive side; additionally, you'll lose coverage with CC since it won't do the damage a Focus Blast does against Scizor, Ferrothorn, etc.
... and regarding your EVs, there are two splits I'd call practical:
.) 148 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 108 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat 261 and at +2, it outspeeds standard Excadrill (neutral natures, 192 speed) at +2 and everything below (including jolly 252 scarf Terrakion, e.g.)
.) 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat of 276 and at +2, it outspeeds neutral natured Excadrill at +2 and everything below

The nature used on this splits is modest, so really don't bother with timid, it's not worth the power loss. I could see myself going for a bold one sometimes, but that's something that has to be tested, so - go for modest!

The best set in terms of coverage is:

Xerneas @ Power Herb
EVs; explained above
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Geomancy

On a side note, does anyone know if the Xerneas you face after you defeated the first has the same IVs all the time - or am I able to reset this one and skip the sequence?

 

[Haruno]

The best set in terms of coverage is:

Xerneas @ Power Herb
EVs; explained above
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Geomancy

On a side note, does anyone know if the Xerneas you face after you defeated the first has the same IVs all the time - or am I able to reset this one and skip the sequence?

aegisblade resists/immune to all three moves while being able to ko it with the iron head + sneak combination......... As for your other question, xerneas has 3 31 IV's and the others varying though thanks to that it screws up synchronizers.

 

[Breadroster]

Don't bother with physical moves, Psyshock at +2 serves you just fine against everything you're struggling with your special moves. Psyshock at +2 from a modest, 252 SAtk Xerneas does about the same (59% - 70%) damage as a Close Combat from the same set. You won't net the OHKO without significant investment in Atk- and another nature, which leaves you vulnerable on your defensive side; additionally, you'll lose coverage with CC since it won't do the damage a Focus Blast does against Scizor, Ferrothorn, etc.
... and regarding your EVs, there are two splits I'd call practical:
.) 148 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 108 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat 261 and at +2, it outspeeds standard Excadrill (neutral natures, 192 speed) at +2 and everything below (including jolly 252 scarf Terrakion, e.g.)
.) 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat of 276 and at +2, it outspeeds neutral natured Excadrill at +2 and everything below

The nature used on this splits is modest, so really don't bother with timid, it's not worth the power loss. I could see myself going for a bold one sometimes, but that's something that has to be tested, so - go for modest!

The best set in terms of coverage is:

Xerneas @ Power Herb
EVs; explained above
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Geomancy

On a side note, does anyone know if the Xerneas you face after you defeated the first has the same IVs all the time - or am I able to reset this one and skip the sequence?

Thanks, helped alot. Don't know if I'm going with option 1 or 2 yet though.
I'm not at Xerneas yet but I heard that there was a way to get a normal interact encounter, but I'm not sure as I'm not there yet.
Here's the link: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/696959-pokemon-x/67482956
If someone tries this, please write here and say how it works etc. :)

EDIT: After reading through the thread, I dont know if it's a "normal" interact encounter or just a trick or something. Can someone help me understand that method?

 

[Aurinko]

aegisblade resists/immune to all three moves while being able to ko it with the iron head + sneak combination......... As for your other question, xerneas has 3 31 IV's and the others varying though thanks to that it screws up synchronizers.

Aye, you're right. Completely forgot to take the new threat into calculation, haha. So, Thunderbolt over Psyshock? Still dealing with Ho-Oh while keeping the momentum against Aegislash - it does 74% - 87% damage, that's about as high as it gets.

To the reset-thing, thanks! But the thing I want to know is: You defeat the first Xerneas, then it's standing in front of you and wants to help you. It's the second time you fight it, but is it the same Xerneas you defeated before, or are the IVs created a second time on a different value? If so, that would speed up my resetting time by about 2 minutes each.

 

[Breadroster]

It's pretty frustrating with all the cutscenes etc. I liked the old style with just interact better :/

 

[Annabeth]

.) 148 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 108 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat 261 and at +2, it outspeeds standard Excadrill (neutral natures, 192 speed) at +2 and everything below (including jolly 252 scarf Terrakion, e.g.)
.) 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Speed ... this reaches a speed stat of 276 and at +2, it outspeeds neutral natured Excadrill at +2 and everything below

148 HP give a 9% defensive (both side) boost.
148 Def give a 16% physical defensive boost.
With all Xerneas counters being physical attackers and physical priority users (thanks to Geomancy SDef boost), I think we should consider giving it some defense EVs.

 

[escarlata]

Aye, you're right. Completely forgot to take the new threat into calculation, haha. So, Thunderbolt over Psyshock? Still dealing with Ho-Oh while keeping the momentum against Aegislash - it does 74% - 87% damage, that's about as high as it gets.

To the reset-thing, thanks! But the thing I want to know is: You defeat the first Xerneas, then it's standing in front of you and wants to help you. It's the second time you fight it, but is it the same Xerneas you defeated before, or are the IVs created a second time on a different value? If so, that would speed up my resetting time by about 2 minutes each.

I think I mentioned before that resisted Moonblast (95 x 1.5 x 1.3)/2 = 92.625 BP hits harder than neutral T-bolt (90 BP), bar Ho-Oh and Heatran, but Psyshock/Focus Blast hit those harder than Thunderbolt and Aegislash always 2HKO Xerneas at full health with Iron Head + Shadow Sneak regardless and Xerneas cannot OHKO back in response.

Specially defensive Unaware Clefable seems to be the overall best counter.
It's a fairy type now, meaning even if Xerneas runs the mixed set its two best physical attacks (Megahorna nd Close Combat) are NVE against it.
Clefable can then proceed to Toxic Xerneas and keep recovering till it's forced out, effectively neutering it.

A +0 252+ Moonblast still hits for 44.16 - 52.03%, so it can't sustain itself.

 

[Breadroster]

If it's true that 3 IVs are perfect, can someone with Pokemon math-skills help me the stats of a Modest Xerneas with 31 Speed, 31 Sp atk, 31 Hp? And are these the IVs you want for Xerneas?

148 HP give a 9% defensive (both side) boost.
148 Def give a 16% physical defensive boost.
With all Xerneas counters being physical attackers and physical priority users (thanks to Geomancy SDef boost), I think we should consider giving it some defense EVs.

Should HP IVs be changed to Def IVs? :)

 

[escarlata]

252/252+ Manaphy with rain support can take any hit, Heart Swap away the boosts, then Hydration Rest as it then outspeeds Xerneas, From there it can 2HKO Xerneas with a +2 rain boosted 4 SpA Scald, and continue to threaten a portion of the opponent's team.

Here are a list of stuff that can beat Xerneas 1-on-1 as of now: (Ones in italic are kind of unseen in Ubers for other options)
Essentially anything with similar bulk *might be able to win
252+ CB Scizor can OHKO 0/148 Xerneas with BP
Max HP/+Atk Aegislash using Iron Head + Shadow Sneak, or Gyro Ball
PDef Poison Arceus can tank a +2 Psyshock and Roar it away
Sturdy/Endure mon's holding a Red Card can tank a hit from full health, and phase it out
Prankster T-wave
SDef Jirachi can also tank any hit, T-wave, and Iron Head hax it until it dies
Unaware Clefable Toxic Stall
Assault Vest SDef Metagross with Meteor Mash + BP

 

[Cingen]

Are his stats set at your first encounter, or can you just KO him and keep resetting the "oldschool" encounter without cutscenes?

 

[Annabeth]

252+ CB Scizor can OHKO 0/148 Xerneas with BP

((((42) * 394 * 1,5 * 60 / 268) / 50) + 2) * 1,5 * 2 * (85 to 100) / 100 = 288,52 to 339,43 HP (73,41% to 86,37%)
=> If there is no mistake, no OHKO even with SR

And this is a selling point of 0HP/148def build against 148HP/0def !

 

[FlowingCloud]

well ...most ppl will stuck in same thinking now

when they saw a Xerneas , just guess it will use geomancy next round

but Xerneas may use substitute or directly use moonblast

because the fairy type , Xerneas will have lots of opportunities to switch in

 

[Talpr0ne]

Does this thing get Swords Dance? It actually has a pretty decent physical movepool, whit Close Combat, MegaHorn, probably Stab Rough Play and Stone Edge(i mean, Stone Edge is apretty widespreaded move and Xerneas is literally covered of Stones), this would be pretty awesome actually, imho even better than Geomancy since it's much more easier to setup a Sword Dance after losing the Power Herb and has great surprise factor.

 

[Aurinko]

Are his stats set at your first encounter, or can you just KO him and keep resetting the "oldschool" encounter without cutscenes?

You can reset the 2nd encounter, I'm doing this atm, posted the way I tested it into the q&a thread.

XY Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)

 

[alexwolf]

I think I mentioned before that resisted Moonblast (95 x 1.5 x 1.3)/2 = 92.625 BP hits harder than neutral T-bolt (90 BP), bar Ho-Oh and Heatran, but Psyshock/Focus Blast hit those harder than Thunderbolt and Aegislash always 2HKO Xerneas at full health with Iron Head + Shadow Sneak regardless and Xerneas cannot OHKO back in response.


A +0 252+ Moonblast still hits for 44.16 - 52.03%, so it can't sustain itself.

+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 211-249 (50.84 - 60%). So Ho-Oh has a realistical chance to survive even after SR, assuming it comes in as Xerneas sets up, thanks to Leftovers recovery. Ho-Oh could always use some Def EVs to guarantee it survives the hit. And stop dismissing Thunderbolt as an option against Aegislash just because it can't straight up OHKO it, there is a strategy called wearing down your checks and you only need ~15% previous damage to get past it anyway.