Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Moisture99]

Technically kartana is the same type with more offensive power so it could also do the same thing

Edit: And before anyone says anything I know kartana has low defense but it should at least survive one hit (?)

Kartana has 131 defense, the bigger issue would be Ogerpon outspeeding.

It's only in line because sleep is banned lol

Sleep clause never should have existed in the first place. Banning sleep was less of a Darkrai thing and more of a tiering policy thing, which is why it wasn't suspected but quickbanned.

I didnt interp it as a joke but apples issue is that without tera as you stated its type is really doodoo but apples fickle beam doesnt really feel uncomp due to it being on a tera heavy mon thats usually somehow walled by physdef corv at +2

Hydrapple def isn't broken but 'walled' is a bit strong...

+2 252+ SpA Hydrapple Fickle Beam (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 309-363 (77.2 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

straight up OHKOs with Life Orb too (yes, these sets do exist)

Also not really tera heavy in the sense that it relies on tera to be effective? The defensive typing isn't great, but it's not terrible for the BO/Balance structures it fits on since you easily come in on Ogerpon lacking Play Rough, Non-Tusk ground types, have a 4x water resist (good into wake and rain when paired with a pivot like gking/alo), and are neutral to a lot of things (which is often enough due to Hydrapple's natural bulk).

 

[SaveMeJebus]

rip bozos, spore was stupid too. might as well be an OHKO move on HO. Ferrothorn would save Gen 9 OU.

I'm kinda sad they got rid of Yawn. I liked to categorize it as more of a Pseudo Haze Option than a sleep option since it basically forced a switch but mostly left the option up to the opponent. Woulda been nice of they would have banned single turn sleep status moves instead, imo

 

[ZannaBianca99]

I'm kinda sad they got rid of Yawn. I liked to categorize it as more of a Pseudo Haze Option than a sleep option since it basically forced a switch but mostly left the option up to the opponent. Woulda been nice of they would have banned single turn sleep status moves instead, imo

You have to consider that it would be unristricted Yawn, definetely annoying

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You have to consider that it would be unristricted Yawn, definetely annoying

Obviously Sleep Clause would have to be reinstated. The thing is, I don't feel Yawn breaks the rules seeing as how a pokemon has to go through a state of drowsiness before actually falling asleep. Their definition of "Strictly Induce" may be different from mine, though

 

[June Heat]

Hey OU forums it has been awhile. Trying to get back into the swing of things, and wanna try out 4 attack Zamazenta. Any suggestions for parters/teammates for the big dog?

 

[Finchinator]

We are not going down the millionth Yawn rabbit hole in this thread’s dreadful existence.

The sleep ban itself was a huge quality-of-life improvement and Yawn being collateral was the only clean application. It is what it is. Let’s move on.

 

[Finchinator]

Hey OU forums it has been awhile. Trying to get back into the swing of things, and wanna try out 4 attack Zamazenta. Any suggestions for parters/teammates for the big dog?

Try Future Sight GKing — they are classically good together

 

[Bold School]

Any notable Pokemon that can use Hurricane effectively?

Pelipper
Also, there is a Dragonite lure set for mons like Zama.

I guess zapdos on rain? But in reality the best hurricane user is still tornadus therian and that thing is uu and never coming back to ou

I have tried using AV Torn-T. It's not terrible, particularly post Kyurem ban. But it tends to use Bleakwind Storm now because it is slightly better.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Almost all Zapdos variants run Hurricane.

 

[pixelpenguin]

Hey OU forums it has been awhile. Trying to get back into the swing of things, and wanna try out 4 attack Zamazenta. Any suggestions for parters/teammates for the big dog?

I like boots Samurott H with it. Ceaseless+Knock lets it wear down walls and it can switch in on stuff like Ghold, Sinistcha that threatens Zama.

Specifically, I think Adamant Samu is pretty good. It's slower than meta staples like Ghold, Tusk, Glimm, and Lando, so I just run enough speed for Modest Raging Bolt and the rest into HP for switching into Shadow Ball. I have yet to run into a situation where the missing speed was impactful.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I feel like Misty Surge Galar Weezing is such an underrated and unexplored mon in the current meta. Misty Surge is an insanely good ability that allows non Levitating/Flying type teammates to run more offensive items and Tera types. Defensively, it softens strong Dragon Type Attacks which are seen pretty often in OU

I Also feel it's typing, Stats and moveset haven't really been explored much either. Its typing and Abilities give it great match ups against most top level threats in the meta. 65 base speed let's it outspeed and hit Kingambit with its Strong Fire type moves. It also just does generally well against any Kingambit not running Iron Head. Same can be said for Zamazenta not carrying Heavy Slam. It can easily wall even a +3 Body Press and takes very little damage from Crunch. It's not affected by Status from Dragapult and is immune to its dragon type moves.

I've mostly been running Terrain Extender as it's hold Item but I've also had success with Eject Button and Red Card variants.

I hope this Mon and Ability get more attention in the near future

 

[Bold School]

I feel like Misty Surge Galar Weezing is such an underrated and unexplored mon in the current meta. Misty Surge is an insanely good ability that allows non Levitating/Flying type teammates to run more offensive items and Tera types. Defensively, it softens strong Dragon Type Attacks which are seen pretty often in OU

I Also feel it's typing, Stats and moveset haven't really been explored much either. Its typing and Abilities give it great match ups against most top level threats in the meta. 65 base speed let's it outspeed and hit Kingambit with its Strong Fire type moves. It also just does generally well against any Kingambit not running Iron Head. Same can be said for Zamazenta not carrying Heavy Slam. It can easily wall even a +3 Body Press and takes very little damage from Crunch. It's not affected by Status from Dragapult and is immune to its dragon type moves.

I've mostly been running Terrain Extender as it's hold Item but I've also had success with Eject Button and Red Card variants.

I hope this Mon and Ability get more attention in the near future

The problem with Misty Surge is Geezing generally wants to run other things like Neutralizing Gas for Ghold (and possibly Gliscor) or Levitate for the Ground immunity. Setters aside, Misty Terrain is also the worst one of the 4 unless you are using it for something like Screens HO.

 

[RainWaiv]

The problem with Misty Surge is Geezing generally wants to run other things like Neutralizing Gas for Ghold (and possibly Gliscor) or Levitate for the Ground immunity. Setters aside, Misty Terrain is also the worst one of the 4 unless you are using it for something like Screens HO.

second worst of the four* electric terrain is only useful to boost electric attacks since sleep is banned and the only reliable setter is pincurchin anyways. Misty terrain at least gives you defensive merits with status immunity and a dragon resistance even if it doesn't have psyterrain's anti priority or grassy's passive healing.

 

[Eeveeto]

second worst of the four* electric terrain is only useful to boost electric attacks since sleep is banned and the only reliable setter is pincurchin anyways. Misty terrain at least gives you defensive merits with status immunity and a dragon resistance even if it doesn't have psyterrain's anti priority or grassy's passive healing.

Not true, Quark Drive Mons are very good and want to run items different items other than Booster Energy. Not saying Pincurchin is good, but his Terrain is not the worst and has other uses other than boosting Electric moves.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I'm kinda sad they got rid of Yawn. I liked to categorize it as more of a Pseudo Haze Option than a sleep option since it basically forced a switch but mostly left the option up to the opponent. Woulda been nice of they would have banned single turn sleep status moves instead, imo

i was the same way for a little bit, but then i realized that would either lead to 1. the option to semi-reliably sleep multiple mons, which would probably be the worst thing that's ever happened to competitive singles, or 2. reinstating sleep clause mod to cover yawn specifically, which is kind of dumb seeing as the whole point of all the sleep rigmarole in the first place was to get rid of sleep clause mod because it's bad tiering

 

[Rekka's Backend]

Quark Drive Mons are very good and want to run items different items other than Booster Energy.

No joke but I had immense serotonin from using LO Valliant mixed sets with terrain up. It obviously has its issues but if Pin wasn't a literal slug I feel like Booster Mons having terrain to enable them would be utterly ghoulish to contend with. Rillaboom is unironically one of the few things preventing us from living in a nightmare far worse than the one we are stuck running in place in.

 

[RainWaiv]

i was the same way for a little bit, but then i realized that would either lead to 1. the option to semi-reliably sleep multiple mons, which would probably be the worst thing that's ever happened to competitive singles, or 2. reinstating sleep clause mod to cover yawn specifically, which is kind of dumb seeing as the whole point of all the sleep rigmarole in the first place was to get rid of sleep clause mod because it's bad tiering

sleep ban was probably the best thing to do in that situation since it killed 2 birds with one stone. It got rid of sleep clause which is a pretty questionable decision as it fundamentally changes the function of sleep moves and it got rid of what made darkrai not exactly broken, but really unfun to play against.
edit: who am i kidding sleeprai was broken as shit

No joke but I had immense serotonin from using LO Valliant mixed sets with terrain up. It obviously has its issues but if Pin wasn't a literal slug I feel like Booster Mons having terrain to enable them would be utterly ghoulish to contend with. Rillaboom is unironically one of the few things preventing us from living in a nightmare far worse than the one we are stuck running in place in.

we don't have the gen 7 tier leaders so they'd probably be a bit more trigger happy to get rid of any problems. val would have gotten sent to ubers 3 years ago if eterrain was everywhere and didn't require a dead slot to run.

 

[pika pal]

I feel like this is the first Gen in a while where we haven't quite had a "Field War" with a bunch of the Meta Mons constantly changing what state the Weather or Terrain is in. Gen 5 speaks for itself, 6 had Zard-Y and Tyranitar at least as strong stand-alones with a splash of Rain and Sand Rush Drill on the side, then Gen 7 and 8 the Tapus speak for themselves alongside people experimenting with Rain, Sand, and Hail.

This is not to say we don't have Rain and Sun teams this gen of course, but I feel like you're less likely to run into an opposing Weather team with such frequency that your weather gets stopped early will be a consistent factor like before, and at this point the only Terrain with an OU factor is Rillaboom's Grassy Terrain, more as a trait of the mon than something a team can build around.

With Terrains the explanation is simply that they're not quite strong enough for how middling the setters are, to a greater extreme than Weather (Torkoal and Pelipper aren't worthless but they'd be nothing to mention without their weathers of course). That said, I wonder how much that's affected by the prevalence of Weather-users that don't have to use Weather: Sun Teams need their game plan to account for the inevitable encounter with opposing Great Tusk or Raging Bolt boosted by their own Weather, on top of the threat these mons would present just played "neutrally" in the tier with their high ranks and usage. It makes me wonder where the Sweet Spot would have to be in making a "Weather" mon (or hypothetically Terrain abuser too) strong enough to push the style without in turn weakening it by being a powerful piece they could run into on regular teams.

The biggest standout in this for me is Walking Wake: It's one of the best things a Sun team could ask for, with a 4x Water and Fire Resist on top of offenses to break Dragons and other Fire resists. At the same time, the mon is mid without Sun such that it's not really a common splash onto teams that you have to have a contingency for it using your own weather against you (barring enemy Sun Teams which just means a lot of uptime in general).

 

[pixelpenguin]

second worst of the four* electric terrain is only useful to boost electric attacks since sleep is banned and the only reliable setter is pincurchin anyways. Misty terrain at least gives you defensive merits with status immunity and a dragon resistance even if it doesn't have psyterrain's anti priority or grassy's passive healing.

Actually, electric terrain also blocks Dondozo from resting. So technically, you can spam physical guys on electric terrain and not have to worry about Dondozo (who am I kidding this is not a niche in the slightest)

 

[Conflux123]

Why not just use trick at this point?

Ideally it's to keep the power of Specs Pulse along with hazards, but I'm definitely testing a variation of the team with just a rocker and trick Specs as well.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Hydrapple is 14 base speed faster than Garganacl, so it’s quite a bit faster than the rock.

Zapdos

Torn-T in Rain if you are running that

God I miss defog + knock torn-t, that mon was so good back when it had both. just doesn't hit the same without both knock and defog

Why not just use trick at this point?

I will vouch trick specs/scarf darkrai genuinely is really good into a lot of stuff that really doesn't like being choice locked at all.

 

[RaikouLover]

Any notable Pokemon that can use Hurricane effectively?

For the rain homies, Hurricane is a must in the builder. Viable users:

Zapdos
Tornadus-T
Moltres (both)
Dragonite
Salamence
Iron Jugulis
Talonflame
Kingdra
Walking Wake

Edit: Pelipper (duh!)

 

[Carl The Turtle]

For the rain homies, Hurricane is a must in the builder. Viable users:

Zapdos
Tornadus-T
Moltres (both)
Dragonite
Salamence
Iron Jugulis
Talonflame
Kingdra
Walking Wake

>pelipper
(why would you use talon over tres though)

 

[correcthorse666]

>pelipper
(why would you use talon over tres though)

Talonflame is much faster than Moltres, and if it can be kept healthy, it can also have priority Hurricanes. If you're using it as a defensive contact punisher rather than a rain Hurricane spammer, Talonflame is a defogger that beats Ghold.

 

[Carl The Turtle]

Talonflame is much faster than Moltres, and if it can be kept healthy, it can also have priority Hurricanes. If you're using it as a defensive contact punisher rather than a rain Hurricane spammer, Talonflame is a defogger that beats Ghold.

I'm well aware of what Talon brings to the table defensively and in terms of defogging. What I was specifically asking was about it in rain, since its speed is absolutely not worth the loss of 51 base stat points of Special Attack, on top of losing Weather Ball, Scorching Sands, and general inferior bulk.