Tbh I've not been doing mentally well lately, so I'm gonna take a break from forums in general.
It's not just you and I apologize.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
It's not just you and I apologize.
I don't like Palworld
But I also don't like works that are at least somewhat transformative in nature to be lumped with plagiarism, be those works Palworld, Top Cat or The Guiana Sisters
it also has nothing to do with my stance on copyright ;)
and as for those examples 315111, when it comes to Nidoking specifically, oh yes, he's as original as grass Cinderace there
you see Baragon is a specific kaiju that's very distinctive, Nidoking is really. really, really derivative of it, like "this is not Superman cause he's wearing blue and yellow and named Ken Kent" derivative
It can happen to everyone. Don't worry about it. Take care of yourself
yeah i was wondering how john gamefreak got away with nidoking being not-baragon, even if i happen to like kaiju-shaped animals turned into pokemon. i guess nidoqueen looks like a femme baragon, to a lesser extent. rhydon and kangashkan particularly don't look like any particular kaiju, other than being godzilla-shaped rhino and kangaroo.
Except GF didn't take a picture, drawing, or model of Baragon and drew over/added stuff onto it. Nidoking is a classic example of a homage, yes its based on Baragon with some visual similarities, but Nidoking is just as much as its own unique creature. It has a different posture, different body proportions, very different silhouette, not to mention different art style and presentation. You're not going to confuse a costume of Nidoking for a giant kaiju monster, just like you're not going to confuse Baragon for a Pokemon.
Verdash is quite the different story. It is a Cinderace that was recolored green and had plantlife added onto it. It has the same pose and body proportions of Cinderace. If you put it in silhouette and showed it to someone who doesn't know about Palworld they'll probably wonder "wait, did Cinderace always have a fluffy burning tail?". Verdash is drawn, purposely so, in a similar if not same style as Cinderace. Finally, both Cinderace and Verdash are colorful elemental creatures in a monster catching series, you can totally swap them and they would not look out of place in the other's game. "Well how many other ways are you supposed to make a grass rabbit sport player"? Well aside from some extreme redesigns you can easily find with a Google search of "Verdash redesigns", I found this design to be close enough to what they wanted but different enough that it's not exactly a Cinderace remodel; and that's just a quick sketch from that artist.
Finally, let's talk about intent. Nidoking is a homage to Baragon likely because GF staff members have fond memories of watching kaiju movies when they were kids. And now that they were making a monster collecting game, they created some Pokemon which resembled popular kaiju because it would be cool to command it in battle and have it as a friend/pet. Verdash is a ripoff of Cinderace because Pocket Pair WANTS you to see it go "oh its not-Cinderace, let me give it a machine gun and gun down other Pals, lulz". I can only imagine they chose Cinderace instead of Incineroar because Gen VIII was the current gen when they were developing Palworld.
It... it really doesn't, Nidoking's ears are rounded and he has a white chest, but otherwise is just Baragon, yes one is a rubber costume and the other is a drawing but how does that change anything? is not as if the postures of either are static, their silhouettes vary only in the ears, Baragon is even called "Fierce King of the Underground" he's a ground type
also, art style? aren't we talking about character design?
here's realistic Nidoking
here's realistic Baragon
also also, don't see how "hey kids want to command a not-kaiju in RGP battles?" is so different from "hey kids want to command a not-pokemon in FPS battle?"
also also also, what are we even arguing?!
that they literally ripped the model of pokemon and edited them a little? some 3D modelers say yes, some 3D modelers say no, the fact that all reports say Nintendo is suing for patent infringement and not for stealing assets points to "they didn't"
that either Nidoking or
that one's a homage and one a rip-off? how can you tell when someone is homaging something versus when they're ripping the off? intent
and how do you know someone's intent? mind reading, no literally mind reading, oh sure we claim we can read someone's intent, but just on this argument 2 out of 2 people that have quoted my posts have misread my intent to the point I've had to spell it out word by word, and I still think my intentions are misread; I'm not going to pretend that I can read the intent of someone I've never met and whose language I don't understad
seriously, what are we even arguing?!
I'm arguing "Palworld is not plagiarism is highly derivative work" cause I think that's an important distinction and also "patent trolling is bad" cause is suing not because you think you're right but because you think you can pay a lawyer for longer than the other guy and thus win that way
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Fanmade stuff don't count.
Fine if you want more:
- Posture: Baragon is slouched over, even when on two feet its usually in a kangaroo like position. Nidoking can stand straight-up, infact it looks to be its default posture, slouching over when ready to battle & trying to look intimidating. Baragon is also shown to often go on all-fours, Nidoking is completely bipedal; both their body shapes are designed around that.
- Arms: Baragon's arms are kept close to its body and in a bent shape as their also its front legs used for digging. Nidoking, being completely bipedal, has full shoulder freedom of its arms and is able to spread them far apart which it does times to look intimidating.
- Tail: When standing on its hind legs Baragon keeps the base of its tail on the ground. While decided to give it a lumbering appearance, biologically speaking this would make sense as it's huge body would need its tail to act as a sort of third leg (such as with kangaroos). Nidoking has been shown with its tail hovering in the air as much as on the ground, infact one of Nidoking's mentioned attacking methods is swinging around and using its tail like a club. Baragon doesn't look to be agile enough to do that kind of menuever, at least not while on two feet.
Well then don't disregard everything else I said.
Right, let's move on from this.
I mentioned it several times in the post you're responding to.
I guess we're not moving on.
You know what, let us move on. Believe what you want.
I presented my case to the thread, you presented your's, I think we've gave everyone enough info for them to make a decision.
I'm standing by my point: Nidoking is a homage, Verdash is a rip off, you can read all my previous posts why that is.
I mostly agree with that though, for my definition, I would add a little asterick just after work:
"Palworld is not plagiarism is highly derivative work*"
* In terms of gameplay mechanics, worldbuilding, and a good number of their Pals... however there are a still number of their Pals which are infringment-y expies of Pokemon even in full design, fusion of designs, or taken traits.
So... guess now we just need to wait a few months to see where this case goes.
Yuck, Nintendo's lawyers' divison vs Pocketpair's shady practices? There's literally zero reason to root for one or the other...
Also I'm in a weird position with the first impressions bc Phione is my least favorite Pokemon of all time, but it seems to have a big role here. Is this how Charizard haters felt playing SWSH?
I wasn't much of a fan of Realidea's plot (awesome presentation tho) so I didn't pay much interest when this was released. But looking at all of the positive reception I could be very wrong, I'm giving this one a shot (when I find time ofc...)
Also I'm in a weird position with the first impressions bc Phione is my least favorite Pokemon of all time, but it seems to have a big role here. Is this how Charizard haters felt playing SWSH?
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just experienced the "acid rain" glitch organically in platinum and... is it unpopular that i thought it was funny as hell? there was even an asleep mon woken up by the non-existent uproar, which i didn't even remember was a part of the glitch. also it helped me win faster lmao 
just experienced the "acid rain" glitch organically in platinum and... is it unpopular that i thought it was funny as hell? there was even an asleep mon woken up by the non-existent uproar, which i didn't even remember was a part of the glitch. also it helped me win faster lmao
Nah acid rain was fun.
I’m telling you kids, they don’t make Pokemon glitches the way they used to!
Or maybe I just have glitch nostalgia.
Unless Castform or Cherrim were involved.
most pokemon fans have not experienced a somewhat obscure and pretty hard to trigger casually bug in a old generation?My take here is that most Pokémon fans don't even know what Acid Rain is and/or have never experienced it.
I've never experienced it
*shocker*
RBY: here kids, you can clone infinite items and get the Phantom Pokemon, Mew with these easy to follow steps!
SV: uuuuuuuh ohhhhhh *graphics stutter, player character falls through the floor*
There's definitely an interesting comparison when it comes to quality-of-life stuff. Sure, the intended methods to optimize stats have gotten a lot faster, but is it really much of a step up in practice when compared with item dupes and RNG manipulation?
The Mew Glitch wasn't well-known to anyone until it was first reported online on May 31st, 2002, when RBY was already old news to most kids(six months before Ruby and Sapphire came out in Japan), and didn't become REALLY well-known until years later. I'll give you the item duplication glitch.
But I will point out that MissingNO. wasn't anywhere near as easy to encounter in the original Japanese versions of Gen 1, which is why as an entity MissingNO.(called Ketsuban in Japanese which literally means "Missing Number") is almost completely unknown in the Japanese fanbase as a whole. Most of the glitches that made it really easy to encounter were created during the localization process of patching out a lot of the glitches that are exclusive to the Japanese versions of the game.
When I played Scarlet early, I picked up a Nymble because it was cute, and it evolved into Lokix and I thought it was really ugly. It went off the team like almost immediately. This made me sad.
I know that Lokix is popular but I find that Gen 9 has no cute Bugs and that sucks for me because look at my list of favorite Bugs by region and you'll see a pattern
In general I think all of the Gen 9 Bugs have bad designs except Slither Wing which is just alright
I know that Lokix is popular but I find that Gen 9 has no cute Bugs and that sucks for me because look at my list of favorite Bugs by region and you'll see a pattern
In general I think all of the Gen 9 Bugs have bad designs except Slither Wing which is just alright
The first I ever heard of it was this strange but well-written ghost story about how Red discovered a terrible secret at the heart of Kanto, went insane, and fled to Mt Silver. It seemed so bizarrely implausible that when I tested it myself and actually encountered Mew I was genuinely convinced this was the actual intended story Game Freak were trying to tell.
Wish I could find it again actually, it was a good read.
EDIT: Nvm, found it! Google ain't totally useless yet.
https://pkmn.net/?action=content&page=viewpage&id=418&parentsection=4
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My take here is that most Pokémon fans don't even know what Acid Rain is and/or have never experienced it.
I've never experienced it
Yeah I never did.
Honestly, the vast majority of glitches the average player will not experience (I’ve never experienced one in SV as far as I know) and you’d need to be fairly plugged into the Pokemon internet to know about many of them (which the vast majority of Pokemon fans are not).
Unpopular opinion? I don’t see any pattern apart from them all having wings. Which isn’t really distinguishing for most bugs.
No... no I'm pretty sure we had plenty of glitches since then
from the Sky Drop glitch in gen 5, passing through the shiny egg manipulation from gen 7 and the ground aqua bike from gen 8, to the whole mess of gen 9
if there's one thing we always had in this series is glitches
Yeah I'm with Coronis, I don't see a pattern. I can agree that Nymble is fairly cute (if a little oddly geometric, if taken on its own and not connecting it with Lokix). I really like Lokix, though; it's a really nice send-up to Kamen Rider (not that I've watched any of it, lol).
as a fellow cute bug truther i do see the pattern because that's basically my fave bugs per gen - i do think scyther/scizor are a bit off pattern (scizor being my gen 2 fave anyway because wow johto bugs are a mid-off) (edit: venomoth > scyther for kanto) but everyone else vibes the same even when i'd have another fave (beautifly and pheromosa to be specific)
i don't HATE lokix but the design does feel a bit heavy handed... paldea bugs kind of a mid-off too though, slither wing really outsells
I never said we didn’t still have them? Just that they weren’t as famous and crazy as older games.
I think it's really down to playstyle. If you're a competitive player, Pursuit + Kill + Field Effect isn't a hard combo to hit, depending on what you and your opponents tend to get up to. If TTar is your favorite mon you might decide Pursuit is irreparably bugged this gen and never know what's going on, if you run DragMag you might never see it in multiple decades.
It's easier to trigger than most of the Gen 1 glitches, but more impactful than a lot of the graphical stuff or weird edge cases that get called "glitches" these days.
Let's be honest how many of the actual Pokemon players, *expecially* back in the days, was playing competitive pokemon *on cartridge even* instead of just finishing the story and putting the game away (or just doing facilities)
Large majority of those bugs were never experienced in casual gameplay. That is still true for modern titles, I wouldn't be surprised if over 90% of the people who buy Pokemon still don't really ever play a single PvP match.