Consider this: Dark Void is one of the cringiest moves ever designed in the series gameplay wise
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Counterpoints:
- Bandai's various attempts that got labelled as invalid (loading screen minigames, enemy horde fights like Dynasty Warriors).
- AI systems aren't game mechanics.
- What they were actually able to patent wasn't nearly as broad as riding your monsters, capturing things with throwable items, or fighting battles in the main game area.
It got nerfed too much, but Void in general was kinda fucking crazy in doubles if you just thought about the odds of hitting 1 Pokemon, let alone 2. Now its a coinflip vs both, so its a 75% chance to extract value. This is still high , but comparable to sleep powder, trading consistency for raw reward. Before, I believe it was a A 96% chance to extract value, with the ludicrous upside of sleeping both mons + not even having counterplay like safety goggles. I think the nerf was fine, though I also think the way sleep is balanced in general is somewhat poor.
This is all well and good for me if not for the fact that, again, the move is literally only useable by a Pokemon that's banned from the only formats Gamefreak pretends to care about balancing. What reason does the casual-only Mythical Pokemon have to have a use-deficient signature move if it's already locked to it?
My unpopular opinion is that the anti-Sketch change was more egregiously bad than the accuracy drop. Having a hard-coded balance band-aid which applies to only a single move is just a very unclean design. It's like if they decided to make Xerneas less broken by making Power Herb not work on Geomancy. If Smeargle's Sketch gimmick is mostly fine except for one move which is also egregiously broken on its native learner, it seems more reasonable from a game design perspective to target that move than to set a precedent for more hard-coded exceptions.
I also don't think "it's Mythical only" necessarily works out in the long run. Having a subset of Pokemon permanently isolated because of some marketing gimmick long ago is a bit silly, and the new games are trending towards having Mythicals being easier to obtain (Deoxys is obtained the same as any other legendary in ORAS, some can be obtained without an event in spinoff games and transferred). I don't think it's super unlikely that at some point more Pokemon which were designated as Mythical at some point will be obtainable simply in-game, and that both devs and players will want them to be allowed into VGC as a result. At that point, it would be necessary to confront the topic of Dark Void on Darkrai.
That being said, I think that the best decision would have been to just ban Dark Void from competitive formats instead (along with evasion and OHKO moves). Given that bans on the latter two were a long time coming anyways (Fissure Ting-Lu got popular in VGC at some point and I don't think anybody enjoyed that), it's pretty clearly the best compromise between casual and competitive players. It was banned in VGC in Gen 5, so it's not unprecedented.
I also don't think "it's Mythical only" necessarily works out in the long run. Having a subset of Pokemon permanently isolated because of some marketing gimmick long ago is a bit silly, and the new games are trending towards having Mythicals being easier to obtain (Deoxys is obtained the same as any other legendary in ORAS, some can be obtained without an event in spinoff games and transferred). I don't think it's super unlikely that at some point more Pokemon which were designated as Mythical at some point will be obtainable simply in-game, and that both devs and players will want them to be allowed into VGC as a result. At that point, it would be necessary to confront the topic of Dark Void on Darkrai.
That being said, I think that the best decision would have been to just ban Dark Void from competitive formats instead (along with evasion and OHKO moves). Given that bans on the latter two were a long time coming anyways (Fissure Ting-Lu got popular in VGC at some point and I don't think anybody enjoyed that), it's pretty clearly the best compromise between casual and competitive players. It was banned in VGC in Gen 5, so it's not unprecedented.
This doesn't resonate with me for for a few reasons
Even in casual play, I think there should be at least *some* correlation in expected power level to what it is. Dark Void is an insanely busted move, more busted than probably any other signature move ever made especially for legendaries, including something like Thousand Arrows, Judgement, etc. etc.
I think it's weird that Darkrai gets something that is so absurdly busted, even in casual play. It's always represented as a midtier ass mythical let alone in the grand scheme of legendaries, a bit above the level of something like Meloetta, but not much above a Keldeo.
Why does it get to just have an insanely busted move from a gameplay-worldbuilding-gamefeel sense? Probably the most busted move in the game?
If it was just decently high accuracy sleep on one Pokemon, then maybe I'd agree because that's not actually that unique but would still be good considering how fast Darkrai is, but Doubles exists and it still exists in casual play, and then it becomes indisputably like the most broken move imaginable.
I think Darkrai straight up just doesn't deserve to have such a busted move
Cos Darkrai is awesome and has awesome lore and awesome design so needed an awesome move.
Then Smeargle had to go and ruin everything.
But anyway they should’ve taken inspiration from PBR for link battles and the whole thing could’ve been avoided.
In Pokémon Battle Revolution, if sleep clause is active, Dark Void will only put one foe to sleep and will be forced to miss for the other.
Like surely just have sleep clause, no?
Sleep clause was in a single game and never used again because it's a ruling that alters a game mechanic.
They do not want the game to work differently in pve than it does in pvp. Which is actually a reasonable thing, there should be no particular reason for which a sleep move would "only work on a single pokemon at time".
That said, Darkrai is a Mythical, mythical pokemon are literally never legal for pvp (bar non relevant for fun events) and they never remotely cared for balance. We all know that the singular reason for Dark Void nerf was Smeargle and if DV Smeargle never picked up usage it wouldn't have been touched. Everything else is just copium.
They do not want the game to work differently in pve than it does in pvp. Which is actually a reasonable thing, there should be no particular reason for which a sleep move would "only work on a single pokemon at time".
That said, Darkrai is a Mythical, mythical pokemon are literally never legal for pvp (bar non relevant for fun events) and they never remotely cared for balance. We all know that the singular reason for Dark Void nerf was Smeargle and if DV Smeargle never picked up usage it wouldn't have been touched. Everything else is just copium.
1. Those patents weren't invalidated, they expired.
2. After looking up countless places trying to define game mechanics and coming up with tons of answers (which lands "are ai systems a game mechanic" either into yes, no, or maybe); I'm going to say in the eye of people who approve patents it all falls into the same category. As long as it's a unique feature within the game, be it a mechanic, system or whatever, it can be patented. Now what counts a "unique" is debatable, though at least one rule is probably it's something no other game had done before it.
3. So that get's into Pokemon's patents. And I think Nintendo & TPC are relying on the VERY specifics of the patents (which could let other games slide):
Catching Monsters In A Throwable Ball: What other monster taming games (that are trying to not be pokeclones) do you know besides Pokemon and Palworld that specifically uses a throwable ball to catch the monster which go inside the ball and can be stored and sent out of said ball? If you describe that before Palworld most everyone would say that's something very specific to Pokemon. BTW, the other patent relating to sneaking around in an overworld is pretty much the same deal, the issue is the object being thrown being a ball.
Riding Captured Monsters: This one is more dubious, though question: was there another game before Legends: Arceus where you could quickly switch between mounts. Because that's what the patent is for, not riding a mount, but able to press a button and you instantly change to being on another mount without having to get off the previous. Note this would be different from having a mount that morphs into a different forms, it has to be mounts that are considered all different individuals and you're just instantaneously able to swap to riding the other with a button press.
Annoying nitpicks? Yes. But when two titans start to fight little things all around them are going to get trampled.
In that case, couldn't they now just change the effect of it affecting both Pokemon in a Double Battle be just something only connected to Darkrai, while if another Pokemon uses it (specifically Smeargle via using Sketch) it's only single target?
Though, now that it just can't be copied by Sketch, does that mean next time Darkrai is in the spotlight they may adjust Dark Void to being 80% again?
Starbound, The Binding of Isaac, Ark. It's not a main mechanic in any of them but it is a thing you can do.
Also Ark again, probably more I can't think of off the top of my head.
First, monster catching/taming is not the main mechanic of those games.
Second, with Starbound and Ark their capturing items are "Pods" (Capture Pod and Cryopod, respectively) and look more box-like. Yes, this matters for the patent that Nintendo is using. Palworld uses "Pal Spheres", both the shape and even the group name mirror "Poke Balls".
Third, for Binding of Isaac the item I think you're talking about is "Ball of Bandages" with the description "Gotta lick 'em all" and summons an orbital familiar. A few things. 1, while it is a ball it's made of bandages and the name doesn't mirror "Poke Balls" like "Pal Spheres" do. Second it's not used to capture a monster, when you use it it spawns one. Third with the description I think it can safely get away with being parody if the first two things wasn't enough to let it slide. And if you're talking about all other objects that summon a Familiar (or if there's one I didn't see which does let you catch a monster), none other I see are in the shape or style of the Poke Ball.
EDIT: Thank you DrPumpkinz for pointing to the correct item. The Friendly Ball, as noted, is an overt reference and, as I said in my final point with the Ball of Bandages, would likely fall under parody if ever brought to question.
I tried reading Ark's method of riding creatures and it looks fairly more complicated than Legend: Arceus (and I don't know whether you're able to quick change between mounts, which is the most important part of the patent).
Though, to be fair, it doesn't sound like PalWorld lets you do that either. If anything PalWorld's riding mechanic more copies Ark's needing the make the right saddle/gear and having to have the creature be on the overworld to mount it. So I have no idea what Nintendo/TPC lawyers think that patent is going to do for them in this case.
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Nah, they're talking about the Friendly Ball. It's a very overt reference to Pokemon.
A man can dream though… a man can dream…
Final Boss music ranking, including PMD because why not. If the game has several arguable final boss themes, I've listed which song I ranked as "the final boss theme".
X+ - EoS (Dialga's Fight to the Finish), PSMD (Dark Matter Phase 2)
X - SV (Turo/Sada), BRT (Defy the Legends)
S - LGPE, B2W2, PLA (Volo), GTI (The Bittercold)
A - HGSS, Plat, ORAS, SWSH
B - SM, XY, USUM, GSC
C - FRLG
D - RBY
F - RSE, BW (Ghetsis), BDSP
Notes:
-PMD final boss songs are instantly, inherently cooler on average for actually naming their tracks. "Defy the Legends" is an insanely hard line, that fits into the story perfectly, and leads into a banger track.
-I actually tend to prefer BDSP's soundfont to DPP, I think DPP has one of the weakest soundfonts in the series, but BDSP's Cynthia theme just doesn't hit. I think part of this to me is Cynthia's theme feels like a BW track in sheep's clothing, with a lot of soundfont elements the rest of the game doesn't really use IIRC, but BDSP seems to be more in line. More safe.
-LGPE's final boss song slapping so hard even though you're fighting motherfucking Trace is so funny.
-I gotta be honest, despite the rest of the OST slapping I think any of the songs you can pick for BW's "final boss" all are kinda stinky. N's theme? Mid. Ghetsis? Ass. Alder? Not terrible, but also the worst champion theme probably.
-RSE -> ORAS is probably the biggest swing up and that's because, while I generally like the RSE soundfont, it trying to be High BPM feels weird compared to ORAS' rocking ass track.
-SWSH may seem a bit high but to me, while it's a slower paced track than normal, just hearing the Hall of Fame in it makes me feel emotional. Great song.
X+ - EoS (Dialga's Fight to the Finish), PSMD (Dark Matter Phase 2)
X - SV (Turo/Sada), BRT (Defy the Legends)
S - LGPE, B2W2, PLA (Volo), GTI (The Bittercold)
A - HGSS, Plat, ORAS, SWSH
B - SM, XY, USUM, GSC
C - FRLG
D - RBY
F - RSE, BW (Ghetsis), BDSP
Notes:
-PMD final boss songs are instantly, inherently cooler on average for actually naming their tracks. "Defy the Legends" is an insanely hard line, that fits into the story perfectly, and leads into a banger track.
-I actually tend to prefer BDSP's soundfont to DPP, I think DPP has one of the weakest soundfonts in the series, but BDSP's Cynthia theme just doesn't hit. I think part of this to me is Cynthia's theme feels like a BW track in sheep's clothing, with a lot of soundfont elements the rest of the game doesn't really use IIRC, but BDSP seems to be more in line. More safe.
-LGPE's final boss song slapping so hard even though you're fighting motherfucking Trace is so funny.
-I gotta be honest, despite the rest of the OST slapping I think any of the songs you can pick for BW's "final boss" all are kinda stinky. N's theme? Mid. Ghetsis? Ass. Alder? Not terrible, but also the worst champion theme probably.
-RSE -> ORAS is probably the biggest swing up and that's because, while I generally like the RSE soundfont, it trying to be High BPM feels weird compared to ORAS' rocking ass track.
-SWSH may seem a bit high but to me, while it's a slower paced track than normal, just hearing the Hall of Fame in it makes me feel emotional. Great song.
I disagree for RSE's placement, but agree with DPP's soundfont being bleh. The town themes are nice along with Cynthia's battle theme, but a lot of the battle themes outside the first use that shit bass. Dialga's theme has a cool E piano beginning, but then it gets repititive despite cool time shifts. Giratina's theme has a neat chaotic start, but then the shit bass hits and it becomes noisy to almost sounding like white noise, which I don't think was intended. Actually it reminds me of a BW high energy track like you mention for Cynthia...just with a piss soundfont. I think the DPP theme Showdown uses is one of the better battle themes, though the intro screeches a bit
HGSS is better compared to DPP, but I'm tired of Kanto remixes mostly. I prefer GB chiptunes admittedly, so I have bias. Voltorb flip is a bop
HGSS is better compared to DPP, but I'm tired of Kanto remixes mostly. I prefer GB chiptunes admittedly, so I have bias. Voltorb flip is a bop
ngl I like the piano that plays in Cynthia's room more than the actual battle theme.
I will never forget my initial reaction when the AI Sada/Turo theme and accompanying story sequence first leaked: "How the fuck did we go from Chairman Rose to this in the span of one game"
SV managed to get some of the best bangers of the series tbh. Almost every battle BGM is amazing.
That said, I think SwSh's main outlier as far as battle music goes is Eternatus' one. Idk, that one just slaps for me. The others are ok, most are good, I love the battle tower one too, but the Eternatus' one just slaps way harder than the other for some reason.
I guess now's a good time to mention that I think Battle at the Summit is the perfect piece of Pokemon music. Every so often a theme song is created that is not just amazing, but perfectly embodies whatever it is appended to. Think of the John Williams Superman theme: It is as if the full history of the character and everything he was ever designed to symbolize was synthesized by a divine machine into sound. When that iconic trumpet rises and climaxes? That is Superman. That is hope, courage, truth and justice and the American way.
I think Battle at the Summit is that song but for Pokemon. What better musical closer for the 20th anniversary of the series than the condensed sound of adventure and excitement?
I think Battle at the Summit is that song but for Pokemon. What better musical closer for the 20th anniversary of the series than the condensed sound of adventure and excitement?
Arceus was a great addition to the series because its lore helps people truly into understanding the world of Pokémon try to piece everything together and form connections, whether within the same generation or cross-generational. Pokémon is a series after all, so a lot of what previous gens established has and will be utilized in modern and future Pokémon games.
Arceus is a simple answer to everything with other Pokémon forming as more layers of complexity to serve as a more direct cause behind what goes on in Pokémon.
For example:
Arceus -> Plate -> Xerneas/Yveltal -> Ultimate Weapon -> Mega Evolution
Arceus -> Palkia/Dialga -> Many layers of dimensions (let's use Ultra Space as an example) -> Ultra Wormholes/Space-Time Rifts, Space-Time Distortions
Arceus -> Plate -> Kyogre -> the ocean
Here's what I believe personally based on a ton of research:
Arceus -> Plate -> Xerneas/Yveltal -> life force + a Pokémon's own unique characteristics -> generational phenomenon.
For example
Life force + the refraction of light from Necrozma's prism = Z-Moves
Life force + Eternatus = Dynamax
Life force + some fancy turtle boi = Terastallization.
I believe the powers of Xerneas and Yveltal are what perpetuate all phenomenon in the world of Pokémon. I also believe they derive from the plates of Arceus, which the Arceus movie refers to as life plates, as they give life to environmentals and to Arceus itself. They are fragments of Arceus, which the Japanese translation of the Meadow plate confirms is the origin of all Pokémon powers. Legends Plate in the English translation sorta backs this up by saying it's the essence of all creation.
This idea would also back up about Xerneas and Yveltal several months ago here
I think Arceus was created as a means to help is understand the world of Pokémon, to help us understand the power that's inside. Gen 4 fumbled on the executuon of this Pokémon and ruined the way it was meant to be interpreted but they've been taking steps to fix it since.
I also don't think Arceus's case contradicts Mew because the series has been actively trying to say Arceus wasn't a Pokémon when Mew was created. Arceus existed, but Arceus is Pokémon's god. The Pokémon itself is just an avatar it uses to interact with the world of people and Pokémon. It can be created at any point and any time, infinitely. Mew is literally just a Pokémon and always way. Arceus was never just a Pokémon, but first and foremost, rather something that defines the very essence of all creation. This is parallel to how Palkia encompasses all of space, Dialga encompasses all of time, and Giratina embodies all antimatter. The Pokémon themselves are their visual personifications of their concepts. The avatars.
Oh uh tl;dr Arceus is great. Ikik may sound biased from a dude named RANSEI but hey I gave off my explanations!
Arceus is a simple answer to everything with other Pokémon forming as more layers of complexity to serve as a more direct cause behind what goes on in Pokémon.
For example:
Arceus -> Plate -> Xerneas/Yveltal -> Ultimate Weapon -> Mega Evolution
Arceus -> Palkia/Dialga -> Many layers of dimensions (let's use Ultra Space as an example) -> Ultra Wormholes/Space-Time Rifts, Space-Time Distortions
Arceus -> Plate -> Kyogre -> the ocean
Here's what I believe personally based on a ton of research:
Arceus -> Plate -> Xerneas/Yveltal -> life force + a Pokémon's own unique characteristics -> generational phenomenon.
For example
Life force + the refraction of light from Necrozma's prism = Z-Moves
Life force + Eternatus = Dynamax
Life force + some fancy turtle boi = Terastallization.
I believe the powers of Xerneas and Yveltal are what perpetuate all phenomenon in the world of Pokémon. I also believe they derive from the plates of Arceus, which the Arceus movie refers to as life plates, as they give life to environmentals and to Arceus itself. They are fragments of Arceus, which the Japanese translation of the Meadow plate confirms is the origin of all Pokémon powers. Legends Plate in the English translation sorta backs this up by saying it's the essence of all creation.
This idea would also back up about Xerneas and Yveltal several months ago here
I think Arceus was created as a means to help is understand the world of Pokémon, to help us understand the power that's inside. Gen 4 fumbled on the executuon of this Pokémon and ruined the way it was meant to be interpreted but they've been taking steps to fix it since.
I also don't think Arceus's case contradicts Mew because the series has been actively trying to say Arceus wasn't a Pokémon when Mew was created. Arceus existed, but Arceus is Pokémon's god. The Pokémon itself is just an avatar it uses to interact with the world of people and Pokémon. It can be created at any point and any time, infinitely. Mew is literally just a Pokémon and always way. Arceus was never just a Pokémon, but first and foremost, rather something that defines the very essence of all creation. This is parallel to how Palkia encompasses all of space, Dialga encompasses all of time, and Giratina embodies all antimatter. The Pokémon themselves are their visual personifications of their concepts. The avatars.
Oh uh tl;dr Arceus is great. Ikik may sound biased from a dude named RANSEI but hey I gave off my explanations!
Speaking of final boss themes, I generally disagree with the feeling that champion themes have got less "intense". I don't mind champion themes sounding more motivating than intimidating (I believe Alder started the trend), as long as the theme captures the feeling of the battle against them it's fine by me. Like for the opposite case, I think Geeta's theme tries to capture that old feeling of "challenging daunting champion" (it's the only SV theme composed by Masuda I believe?) but it comes off pretty generic imo.
To count spinoff themes I don't see brought up as often: Grandmaster Theme and and GR King Theme from the Pokemon TCG for Game Boy games go in my S+, they're soooo good. The former can easily fit into a mainline champion theme, and the latter sounds like an all out war zone!
To count spinoff themes I don't see brought up as often: Grandmaster Theme and and GR King Theme from the Pokemon TCG for Game Boy games go in my S+, they're soooo good. The former can easily fit into a mainline champion theme, and the latter sounds like an all out war zone!
thank you for bringing these to my attention. they are both excellent