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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Back to the Past is an RBY metagame which adds Pokemon and moves from newer generations and puts them back into Gen 1 while maintaining a general RBY style. As adding many new options increases the powerlevel significantly, the RBY OU metagame will not try to be maintained.
Slate Format Submission Phase(4 days)
Submission phase will alternate between adding 3 new Pokemon and adding 3 new moves. You can sub any Pokemon and any move you want for the first slates, and the last slates will be for filling out the metagame. Pokemon and moves must be existing in later gens, and while you can change them in whatever way you want, they should roughly adhere to flavor. Submissions don't need to be possible on cartridge (ingame), but things like field effects will be vetoed.
Veto / Review Phase (1 day)
Council will review all submissions and veto any broken/uncompetitive/too weak vetoes to get them to fit better into the metagame. Submissions can still be made, but may not be reviewed and no warning will be given if they are vetoed.
Voting Phase (2 days)
Everyone will be able to vote for the subs they want to be included. You can vote for up to 3 submissions, where they will get 3, 2, and 1 points respectively depending on your order. Your own submission cannot be first place and must have (SV). You must vote for 3 submissions to SV, and can only SV once.
Example: Vote: Mon 1, Mon 2 (SV), Mon 3
Mon 1 would get 3 points, Mon 2, your own submission, would get 2 points, and Mon 3 would get would 1 point. If you vote for only two or one submissions, the first submissions would still get 3 points and the second would still get 2 points.
Discussion Phase (1 day)
After the slate ends, there will be 1 day to discuss the changes to the metagame and for council to finish the slate/work on the next one.
Welcome to Back to the Past! In this slate, you can submit 3 moves from generations 2 to 9, changing them in whatever way you want. Keep in mind the general low power of moves in RBY, which rarely has moves above 100 BP. Field effects are also entirely disallowed.
Veto phase will begin on the 8th! If you want to be council DM me. Happy posting!
Let's fuck up the top mons and give out actual STAB since the goal isn't maintaining the balance of base RBY
Name: Hammer Arm Type: Fighting
BP: 100
Acc: 90
PP: 16
Effect: Lowers users Speed by 1.
Competitive Description: Exactly as-is in later gens. Fun fact, if you use this vs a paralyzed mon, you lower your Speed by 1 stage but you quarter their Speed, so the Speed drop is beneficial if you spam Thunder Wave.
Distribution:
Name: Skitter Smack Type: Bug
BP: 70
Acc: 100
PP: 16
Effect: Lowers target's Special by 1.
Competitive Description: Bugs don't have STAB, I want to give them STAB and give some other mons a move that hits Psychics. Most of these mons are ass anyway, so it mainly helps the better bugs, Kingler, and Kabutops.
Distribution:
Name: Brave Bird Type: Flying
BP: 100
Acc: 100
PP: 24
Effect: 25% recoil.
Competitive Description: Double Edge that can hit Ghost but is resisted by Electric. Give the birds something instead of relying on Sky Attack if they didn't get Drill Peck, which literally only 3 mons got.
Distribution:
Name: Fake Tears
Type: Normal
BP: -
Acc: 100
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's Spc by 2.
Description: Amnesia is such a strong move so what if we make it worse and give it to more Pokemon
Name: Hail
Type: Ice
BP: 40
Acc: 100
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Until the target switches out, they lose 1/8 of their max hp if they aren't an Ice-type at the time when Leech Seed does damage (gen 1 is whack, look it up cause I don't want to write it all)
Description: Get chipped down over time
Name: Chilling Water
Type: Water
BP: 60
Acc: 100
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att by 1.
Description: Alternative Water move that beats up physical attackers.
unfortunately i have fallen victim to compgen advertising
editing in distribution and other such details later
Name: Drain Punch
Details: Fighting, 70 BP, 100% Accuracy. Effect: User recovers 50% of damage dealt. Justification: Serves as a strong alternative to the very underwhelming existing Fighting-type options that can effectively take advantage of the relatively high HP stats of important targets like Rhydon, the Normal-types, and any future additions. Nerfed from 75 BP to 70 BP since RBY was allergic to accurate Fighting-type moves with any base power and to help balance the powerful effect. Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
Name: Cross Poison
Details: Poison-type, 70 BP, 100% Accuracy Effect: Boosted Critical-hit rate. Justification: Sludge is both an utterly terrible move and one with absolutely no distribution. While Poison is always going to be an underwhelming choice, a Slash clone that can potentially hit targets like Eggy isn't useless! Maybe! Buffed to 75 BP to make it slightly more appealing as a neutral option compared to Slash, trading far worse neutral coverage for higher damage on said neutral targets, Kept 70 BP after some discussion, this should keep it at a far more acceptable range without limiting future drops too much. poison chance removed because not being able to paralyze stuff is stinky Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
Name: Accelerock
Details: Rock-type, 40 BP, 100% Accuracy Effect: +1 Priority Justification: Useful priority?! :wow: Also has a niche as the only 100% accurate Rock-type move, making it a potentially solid 4th move for more consistently cleaning up opposing teams. Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
Name: Charm Type: Normal Power: -- Acc: 100 PP: 20 (32) Effect: Lowers the target's attack by 2 stages Reasoning: Alright so I basically just wanted to absolutely fuck up the metagame. Fun right? Has ass distribution though so i failed at my mission. However it could definitely give some of these mons better niches in the tier such as clefable.
Pikachu Line
Sandshrew Line
Nidoqueen
Clefairy Line
Jigglypuff Line
Jynx
Mew
Name: X-Scizzor Type: Bug Power: 80 Acc: 100 PP: 15 (24) Effect: No Additional Effect. Reasoning: Well first things first lets balance out the psychic type. (This wont do shit.)
Name: Scald Type: Water BP: 80 Acc: 100% PP: 24 Effect: 10% to burn the target. Thaws the user if frozen. Competitive Description: Gives defensive waters an interesting option to serve as a freeze absorber, making the Gen 1 Freeze mechanics more dynamic. Weaker BP than Surf and burn chance is a negative should leave it as a viable albeit Gimmicky option. Distribution: Blastoise, Poliwrath, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Vaporeon, Mew
BP: 100 Acc: 100 PP: 16 Effect: User must be asleep. Competitive Description: Allows for relatively free sleep absorption and less passive Rest usage. Distribution:
Name: Refresh Type: Normal BP: - Acc: - PP: 32 Effect: User cures its burn, poison, or paralysis. Competitive Description: Another way to play around paralysis. Speed drop stills stays until you swap. Distribution: |
Name: Sleep Talk Type: Normal BP: - Acc: -
PP: 16 Effect: User must be asleep. User uses another known move. Competitive Description: A way to absorb sleep. Can call Rest because you have to spend a turn waking up which significantly weakens it. Distribution: Universal
Name: Spectral Thief Type: Ghost BP: 90 Acc: 100 PP: 16 Effect: Steals target's boosts before doing damage. Competitive Description: Ghost is an atrocious offensive type so I think it needs actually good moves. Strong effect but RBY has minimal setup besides Amnesia which is on mons that are immune. Distribution:
Name: Drill Run Type: Ground BP: 65 Acc: 95 PP: 16 Effect: High crit chance Competitive Description: Basically Ground type Razor Leaf. Mainly used as a coverage for weak Mons that don,t have anything to hit Rocks or Gengar. Some weaker Ground types get the move too. Distribution: Doesn,t prevent this Mon from being one of the worst in the game, but now Gengar can,t come into it for free. Mainly just flavor, though hitting Gengar and Tentacruel (who normally walls Dewgong) is good. Not giving the move to Lapras or Cloyster, so now Dewgong has something to go for it. Now isn,t walled by Rhydon, though its only a 3HKO. It also serves as something that distinguish Fearow from Dodrio, who doesn,t get the move. Strongest user of the move by far. 3HKOs everything that doesn,t resist the move, but not strong enough to 2HKO Tauros or Snorlax (though bypassing Reflect is cool). The 4 weaknesses and mediocre Speed keep Nidoking in check. Second strongest user of the move. Rhydon and Tentacruel can,t switch anymore. Still bad, but beats Tentacruel and Gengar now. Only OU Mon with the move. This guy does devastating damage with it, ignoring Reflects. However, unlike every other Mon that gets Drill Run, Rhydon doesn,t reach 64 Speed, which would guarantee the crit, so its quite unreliable.
Name: Circle Throw Type: Fight BP: 60 Acc: 95 PP: 16 Effect: User moves last and forces the target to switch out. Competitive Description: This is used to remove set-up sweepers from the field while they sleep. Slowbro, Reflect Lax, AmnesiaLax, Reflect Chansey and Agility Dragonite are the main targets. Distribution: Gets STAB on the move. This Mon already has a great movepool but hindered by the Fight typing, now it has another new toy. No STAB but much better (at least currently) typing. Kanga should always have Body Slam, Earthquake and Hyper Beam, however last move has many options (Counter, Surf, even Rock Slide, etc.), now it has one more.
Name: Poison Fang Type: Poison BP: 65 Acc: 100 PP: 24 Effect: 50% to badly poison the target. Competitive Description: Toxic is not a very used move in RBY due to resetting to regular Poison after target switches out and regular poison only doing 6% of damage. However, sometimes strategies develop around Toxic in RBY too and several teams had moderate success with it. These strategies become a lot better if the move that inflicts Toxic doesn,t miss and does actual damage. Poison Fang is that move. Distribution: Flavor receiver, this guy usually is better at using Glare + Wrap. However, Toxic damage + Wrap is strong too. Still a terrible Mon due to the typing, but now has a Poison STAB. Takes advantage of Electrics to SPAM the move and poison switch-ins. Probably most competitively viable user of the move. Gets a new STAB move. Now it can sleep a target and then force mind-games between paralyzing and poisoning. For Venomoth the move also means that it isn,t walled by Exeggutor anymore without the need of using the weak Leech Life.
Name: Sappy Seed Type: Grass BP: 60 Acc: 100% PP: 24 Effect: Seeds the target Distribution: Reasoning: A grass move that does not abandon the grass supportive archetype, it is also usable alongside growth.
Name: Parabolic Charge Type: Electric BP: 75 Acc: 100% PP: 32 Effect: Heal 50% of damage dealt Distribution: Reasoning: I honestly just wanted to add one more source of healing to a few strong mons
Name: Belch Type: Poison BP: 150 Acc: 90% PP: 8 Effect: Hyperbeam recharge effect Distribution: Reasoning: From my experience with other hacks I am pretty positive that you can't make poison a decent type without changing the mecahnics, just mediocre/acceptable or fully broken. This is my attempt to make poison stab acceptable.
Friendly reminder to anyone submitting moves to remember that Ghost type moves have zero effect on Psychic.
Poison is strong against Bug.
Bug is strong against poison.
Name: Sucker Punch
Type: Fighting
BP: 70
Acc: 100
PP: 5
Effect: User attacks first, but only works if opponent is readying an attack.
Competitive Description: Move is cool, it's an interesting and balanced move with a lot of nuance, in gen 1 this can really shine especially being given the fighting type due to there being no dark types! This is the move that, in this initial slate, may just be one of those sort of submissions that doesn't have an immediate effect that shakes everything up, but it'd be one of those options that would be sleeper strong I'd suspect. It would also be good for potential pokemon submissions in the future to help pad those out a bit with some more tools.
Distribution: Raticate, Nidoking, Dugtrio, Primeape, Poliwrath, Victreebel, Golem, Gengar, Electrode, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Kangaskhan
Name: Mirror Coat
Type: Psychic
BP: 1
Acc: 100%
PP: 20
Effect: If hit by a Electric/Fire move, deals 2x damage.
Competitive Description: Gen1 Counter is one of the most interesting, bizarre, and funky moves in gen 1. The fact it only works on Normal/Fighting, and also lets you store explosions that you have done makes it one of the most gamer moves of all time. In gen 1 a lot of the time I see folks trying to fix things that won't get fixed by being blunt, as all it does is sand away stuff I find unique. Electric moves are not uncommon, and fire type moves can be more common in this... So why not give a special version of gen 1 counter? I've really enjoyed the idea myself and thought about it a bunch. It sounds fun.
Distribution: Blastoise, Clefable, Tentacruel, Magneton, Gengar, Electrode, Porygon
(Of this list, the most notable of the bunch is for sure Tentacruel!)
Name: Burn Up
Type: Fire
BP: 130
Acc: 100%
PP: 5
Effect: User burns itself out, after using the move the user will no longer be the Fire type and instead be Normal.
Competitive Description: This is a very interesting move that helps fulfill the actual desire Fire types have in Gen 1 properly in that they are often themed to be mixed attackers but rarely are able to properly live out that fantasy. Losing the Fire type and being turned into a Normal type is MASSIVE due to ignore Body Slam paralysis and getting STAB on Normal type moves they didn't have before.
Distribution: Charizard, Ninetales, Arcanine, Rapidash, Flareon
(Give it to every fire type sans Moltres and see what sticks. Zard, Arc, and Flareon would be pretty playable from this.)
It's been a little while since I've made any subs so I hope this is acceptable.
Name: Lucky Chant Type: Normal BP: - Acc: - PP: 8 Effect: While the user remains active, the user is shielded from Critical Hits. This effect can be removed by Haze. Competitive Description: Reflect sidegrade / upgrade depending if you want to use both. Biggest users of this move are going to be Amnesia spammers like Lax or Slowbro. PP is extremely reduced due to the potent effect. Distribution: Universal
Name: Wake Up Slap Type: Fighting BP: 90 Acc: 95 PP: 24 Effect: Wakes up the target if asleep, x2 damage if woken up. Competitive Description: Another fighting move besides Submission which kills you. Can serve to reset which mon is the sleep in a team as well. Distribution: All fighting types + :mr.mime:
Name: Air Slash
Type: Flying
BP: 70
Acc: 100
PP: 20
Effect: 10% chance to lower opponent's defense.
Competitive Description: Weaker drill peck that has a nice side effect, also isn't locked to birds with long beaks.
Distribution: All flying types + everything with wings.
Name: Bulk Up
Type: Fighting
BP:
Acc:
PP: 20
Effect: buffs ATK & DEF by 1.
Competitive Description: physical growth.
Distribution: All fighting types +
Name: Ancient Power
Type: Rock
BP: 65
Acc: 100
PP: 10
Effect: 30% chance to lower opponent's Speed
Competitive Description: Slightly weaker Rock slide that can be used by the fossils and has the closest thing to a paralyzing effect.
Distribution: The Fossils, the legendary birds and Mew.
BP: 65 Acc: 100% PP: 10 Effect: 30% chance to freeze. Deals double damage if target is statused. Competitive Description: Gives Gengar the ability to spread the fun Freeze status while getting a big flex out of Hypnosis sets. Distribution:
Name: Power-Up Punch Type:
BP: 55 Acc: 100% PP: 20 Effect: Raises Attack stat by one stage after successful hit. Competitive Description: Power Up Punch is fun move that barely sees use outside of one Kangaskhan, this time the move may be the Fighting STAB that fighters need to shake up their standing. Buffed its BP to 55 because 40 was a bit weak even considering it's effects. Distribution:
Name: Quiver Dance Type:
BP: - Acc: - PP: 20 Effect: Raises the user's Special by 2 stages and Speed by 1. Competitive Description: The Bugs suck. While some are remedying this by pumping up their STAB, only a few benefit from this. Quiver Dance seeks to turn the best Bugs available into breaking + sweeping machines. Distribution:
After this you'll have 24 hours to submit, won't review any new subs after this point unless you ping me in the discord server and vetoes will be without warning. I'll decide final distribution for the accepted subs but will only remove things that are problematic and will warn beforehand.
Let's fuck up the top mons and give out actual STAB since the goal isn't maintaining the balance of base RBY
Name: Hammer Arm Type: Fighting BP: 100 Acc: 90 PP: 16 Effect: Lowers users Speed by 1. Competitive Description: Exactly as-is in later gens. Fun fact, if you use this vs a paralyzed mon, you lower your Speed by 1 stage but you quarter their Speed, so the Speed drop is beneficial if you spam Thunder Wave. Distribution:
Name: Skitter Smack Type: Bug BP: 70 Acc: 100 PP: 16 Effect: Lowers target's Special by 1. Competitive Description: Bugs don't have STAB, I want to give them STAB and give some other mons a move that hits Psychics. Most of these mons are ass anyway, so it mainly helps the better bugs, Kingler, and Kabutops. Distribution:
Name: Brave Bird Type: Flying BP: 100 Acc: 100 PP: 24 Effect: 25% recoil. Competitive Description: Double Edge that can hit Ghost but is resisted by Electric. Give the birds something instead of relying on Sky Attack if they didn't get Drill Peck, which literally only 3 mons got. Distribution:
All 3 are good generally useful moves which will be useful on a wise variety of mons in the future, approved. Only problem is Brave Bird Aero is probably too strong in the future since it will 100% get rock stab and coverage at some point.
Name: Fake Tears
Type: Normal
BP: -
Acc: 100
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's Spc by 2.
Description: Amnesia is such a strong move so what if we make it worse and give it to more Pokemon
unfortunately i have fallen victim to compgen advertising
editing in distribution and other such details later
Name: Drain Punch
Details: Fighting, 70 BP, 100% Accuracy. Effect: User recovers 50% of damage dealt. Justification: Serves as a strong alternative to the very underwhelming existing Fighting-type options that can effectively take advantage of the relatively high HP stats of important targets like Rhydon, the Normal-types, and any future additions. Nerfed from 75 BP to 70 BP since RBY was allergic to accurate Fighting-type moves with any base power and to help balance the powerful effect. Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
Name: Cross Poison
Details: Poison-type, 70 BP, 100% Accuracy Effect: Boosted Critical-hit rate. Justification: Sludge is both an utterly terrible move and one with absolutely no distribution. While Poison is always going to be an underwhelming choice, a Slash clone that can potentially hit targets like Eggy isn't useless! Maybe! Buffed to 75 BP to make it slightly more appealing as a neutral option compared to Slash, trading far worse neutral coverage for higher damage on said neutral targets, Kept 70 BP after some discussion, this should keep it at a far more acceptable range without limiting future drops too much. poison chance removed because not being able to paralyze stuff is stinky Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
Name: Accelerock
Details: Rock-type, 40 BP, 100% Accuracy Effect: +1 Priority Justification: Useful priority?! :wow: Also has a niche as the only 100% accurate Rock-type move, making it a potentially solid 4th move for more consistently cleaning up opposing teams. Notable Recipients: Flavor Recipients:
All approved, but worried about how limiting Cross Poison is for the future mons which want a poison stab. Its bonkers high power means any mons with the move will have to have middling atk. Will probably remove it off of Nidoqueen too because ground/poison is pretty bonkers coverage combined with its good special movepool to snipe any resists.
Name: Charm Type: Normal Power: -- Acc: 100 PP: 20 (32) Effect: Lowers the target's attack by 2 stages Reasoning: Alright so I basically just wanted to absolutely fuck up the metagame. Fun right? Has ass distribution though so i failed at my mission. However it could definitely give some of these mons better niches in the tier such as clefable.
Pikachu Line
Sandshrew Line
Nidoqueen
Clefairy Line
Jigglypuff Line
Jynx
Mew
Name: X-Scizzor Type: Bug Power: 80 Acc: 100 PP: 15 (24) Effect: No Additional Effect. Reasoning: Well first things first lets balance out the psychic type. (This wont do shit.)
Name: Scald Type: Water BP: 80 Acc: 100% PP: 24 Effect: 10% to burn the target. Thaws the user if frozen. Competitive Description: Gives defensive waters an interesting option to serve as a freeze absorber, making the Gen 1 Freeze mechanics more dynamic. Weaker BP than Surf and burn chance is a negative should leave it as a viable albeit Gimmicky option. Distribution: Blastoise, Poliwrath, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Vaporeon, Mew
BP: 100 Acc: 100 PP: 16 Effect: User must be asleep. Competitive Description: Allows for relatively free sleep absorption and less passive Rest usage. Distribution:
Name: Circle Throw Type: Fight BP: 60 Acc: 95 PP: 16 Effect: User moves last and forces the target to switch out. Competitive Description: This is used to remove set-up sweepers from the field while they sleep. Slowbro, Reflect Lax, AmnesiaLax, Reflect Chansey and Agility Dragonite are the main targets. Distribution: Gets STAB on the move. This Mon already has a great movepool but hindered by the Fight typing, now it has another new toy. No STAB but much better (at least currently) typing. Kanga should always have Body Slam, Earthquake and Hyper Beam, however last move has many options (Counter, Surf, even Rock Slide, etc.), now it has one more.
Name: Poison Fang Type: Poison BP: 50 Acc: 100 PP: 24 Effect: 50% to badly poison the target. Competitive Description: Toxic is not a very used move in RBY due to resetting to regular Poison after target switches out and regular poison only doing 6% of damage. However, sometimes strategies develop around Toxic in RBY too and several teams had moderate success with it. These strategies become a lot better if the move that inflicts Toxic doesn,t miss and does actual damage. Poison Fang is that move. Distribution: Flavor receiver, this guy usually is better at using Glare + Wrap. However, Toxic damage + Wrap is strong too. Still a terrible Mon due to the typing, but now has a Poison STAB. Takes advantage of Electrics to SPAM the move and poison switch-ins. Probably most competitively viable user of the move. Gets a new STAB move. Now it can sleep a target and then force mind-games between paralyzing and poisoning. For Venomoth the move also means that it isn,t walled by Exeggutor anymore without the need of using the weak Leech Life.
Circle Throw is cool to reveal the opponents team or force setup mons out, but Poison Fang seems pretty niche. Raising BP slightly or the poison chance would make it alot better but it has potential depending on what people add later so its approved regardless.
Name: Sappy Seed Type: Grass BP: 60 Acc: 100% PP: 24 Effect: Seeds the target Distribution: Reasoning: A grass move that does not abandon the grass supportive archetype, it is also usable alongside growth.
Name: Belch Type: Poison BP: 150 Acc: 90% PP: 8 Effect: Hyperbeam recharge effect Distribution: Reasoning: From my experience with other hacks I am pretty positive that you can't make poison a decent type without changing the mecahnics, just mediocre/acceptable or fully broken. This is my attempt to make poison stab acceptable.
Sappy Seed is cool as a utility move, but not entirely sure about Belch. Seems too strong on Nidos and Victreebel while running into alot of the same issues as Cross Poison. Approved both but Belch would not be added to Nidos and Victreebel.
Friendly reminder to anyone submitting moves to remember that Ghost type moves have zero effect on Psychic.
Poison is strong against Bug.
Bug is strong against poison.
Name: Sucker Punch Type: Fighting BP: 70 Acc: 100 PP: 5 Effect: User attacks first, but only works if opponent is readying an attack. Competitive Description: Move is cool, it's an interesting and balanced move with a lot of nuance, in gen 1 this can really shine especially being given the fighting type due to there being no dark types! This is the move that, in this initial slate, may just be one of those sort of submissions that doesn't have an immediate effect that shakes everything up, but it'd be one of those options that would be sleeper strong I'd suspect. It would also be good for potential pokemon submissions in the future to help pad those out a bit with some more tools. Distribution: Raticate, Nidoking, Dugtrio, Primeape, Poliwrath, Victreebel, Golem, Gengar, Electrode, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Kangaskhan
Name: Mirror Coat Type: Psychic BP: 1 Acc: 100% PP: 20 Effect: If hit by a Electric/Fire move, deals 2x damage. Competitive Description: Gen1 Counter is one of the most interesting, bizarre, and funky moves in gen 1. The fact it only works on Normal/Fighting, and also lets you store explosions that you have done makes it one of the most gamer moves of all time. In gen 1 a lot of the time I see folks trying to fix things that won't get fixed by being blunt, as all it does is sand away stuff I find unique. Electric moves are not uncommon, and fire type moves can be more common in this... So why not give a special version of gen 1 counter? I've really enjoyed the idea myself and thought about it a bunch. It sounds fun. Distribution: Blastoise, Clefable, Tentacruel, Magneton, Gengar, Electrode, Porygon
(Of this list, the most notable of the bunch is for sure Tentacruel!)
Name: Burn Up Type: Fire BP: 130 Acc: 100% PP: 5 Effect: User burns itself out, after using the move the user will no longer be the Fire type and instead be Normal. Competitive Description: This is a very interesting move that helps fulfill the actual desire Fire types have in Gen 1 properly in that they are often themed to be mixed attackers but rarely are able to properly live out that fantasy. Losing the Fire type and being turned into a Normal type is MASSIVE due to ignore Body Slam paralysis and getting STAB on Normal type moves they didn't have before. Distribution: Charizard, Ninetales, Arcanine, Rapidash, Flareon
(Give it to every fire type sans Moltres and see what sticks. Zard, Arc, and Flareon would be pretty playable from this.)
It's been a little while since I've made any subs so I hope this is acceptable.
Name: Lucky Chant Type: Normal BP: - Acc: - PP: 8 Effect: While the user remains active, the user is shielded from Critical Hits. This effect can be removed by Haze. Competitive Description: Reflect sidegrade / upgrade depending if you want to use both. Biggest users of this move are going to be Amnesia spammers like Lax or Slowbro. PP is extremely reduced due to the potent effect. Distribution: Universal
Name: Wake Up Slap Type: Fighting BP: 90 Acc: 95 PP: 24 Effect: Wakes up the target if asleep, x2 damage if woken up. Competitive Description: Another fighting move besides Submission which kills you. Can serve to reset which mon is the sleep in a team as well. Distribution: All fighting types + :mr.mime:
Name: Ancient Power
Type: Rock
BP: 65
Acc: 100
PP: 10
Effect: 30% chance to lower opponent's Speed
Competitive Description: Slightly weaker Rock slide that can be used by the fossils and has the closest thing to a paralyzing effect.
Distribution: The Fossils, the legendary birds and Mew.
BP: 55 Acc: 100% PP: 20 Effect: Raises Attack stat by one stage after successful hit. Competitive Description: Power Up Punch is fun move that barely sees use outside of one Kangaskhan, this time the move may be the Fighting STAB that fighters need to shake up their standing. Buffed its BP to 55 because 40 was a bit weak even considering it's effects. Distribution:
Lots of good subs, alot of them pretty basic stab options from types missing them understandably. Theres also a few vetoes, all the below submissions have to either change to my suggestion or to another one I approve in the discord server.
Name: Hail
Type: Ice
BP: -
Acc: 100
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Until the target switches out, they lose 1/8 of their max hp if they aren't an Ice-type after attacking or at end of turn if they didn't attack (happens when Poison would deal damage)
Description: Get chipped down over time
Name: Chilling Water
Type: Water
BP: 50
Acc: 100
PP: 20 (32)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att by 1.
Description: Alternative Water move that beats up physical attackers.
Both vetoes on the basis of being insanely weak and unusable. Hail would need to follow Leech Seed mechanics (no end of turn damage unless they move) to be more in line with other moves of its nature and thats easily swapped around so Id suggest making it 40 BP. Chilling Water is nice in theory and similar to Charm (which isnt even a very strong move itself) but I cant see it ever actually being run so Id like to see the BP being raised to 60.
Name: Drill Run Type: Ground BP: 65 Acc: 95 PP: 16 Effect: High crit chance Competitive Description: Basically Ground type Razor Leaf. Mainly used as a coverage for weak Mons that don,t have anything to hit Rocks or Gengar. Some weaker Ground types get the move too. Distribution: Doesn,t prevent this Mon from being one of the worst in the game, but now Gengar can,t come into it for free. Mainly just flavor, though hitting Gengar and Tentacruel (who normally walls Dewgong) is good. Not giving the move to Lapras or Cloyster, so now Dewgong has something to go for it. Now isn,t walled by Rhydon, though its only a 3HKO. It also serves as something that distinguish Fearow from Dodrio, who doesn,t get the move. Strongest user of the move by far. 3HKOs everything that doesn,t resist the move, but not strong enough to 2HKO Tauros or Snorlax (though bypassing Reflect is cool). The 4 weaknesses and mediocre Speed keep Nidoking in check. Second strongest user of the move. Rhydon and Tentacruel can,t switch anymore. Still bad, but beats Tentacruel and Gengar now. Only OU Mon with the move. This guy does devastating damage with it, ignoring Reflects. However, unlike every other Mon that gets Drill Run, Rhydon doesn,t reach 64 Speed, which would guarantee the crit, so its quite unreliable.
This move is nuts especially on Nidos (whod have it removed) while also being basically useless. Idt this would make any of the mons that get it viable while also I cant really think of any other mons who would recieve it flavor wise or even balance wise. Not entirely sure what to do with this personally but its vetoed.
Name: Parabolic Charge Type: Electric BP: 65 Acc: 100% PP: 32 Effect: Heal 50% of damage dealt Distribution: Reasoning: I honestly just wanted to add one more source of healing to a few strong mons
Not sure what mon would ever use this over TBolt. Minimum raise it to 70 BP so it 3hkos in the Starmie mirror, could go 75 BP or increase the healing instead. 80 is prob the cutoff where its just better TBolt.
Name: Air Slash
Type: Flying
BP: 70
Acc: 100
PP: 20
Effect: 30% chance to flinch
Competitive Description: Weaker drill peck that has a chance to flinch, also isn't locked to birds with long beaks.
Distribution: All flying types + everything with wings.
Name: Spikes
Type: Ground
BP:
Acc: 100
PP: 20
Effect: Does 12,5% damange on the opponent upon entering the field (not sure if flyiers should be immune to it)
Competitive Description: Nerfs switch spam.
Distribution:
Air Slash flinch chance is pretty uncompetitive in a tier with as much para as this esp with how fast alot of flying types generally are, would just remove that outright. Spikes is completely unRBY and field effects in their entirety are not allowed.
BP: 65 Acc: 100% PP: 10 Effect: 30% chance to freeze. Deals double damage if target is statused. Competitive Description: Gives Gengar the ability to spread the fun Freeze status while getting a big flex out of Hypnosis sets. Distribution:
Name: Quiver Dance Type:
BP: - Acc: - PP: 20 Effect: Raises the user's Special by 2 stages and Speed by 1. Competitive Description: The Bugs suck. While some are remedying this by pumping up their STAB, only a few benefit from this. Quiver Dance seeks to turn the best Bugs available into breaking + sweeping machines. Distribution:
Dont like Bitter Malices freeze chance, dont think the move is useful on Gengar rn and any future ghosts would be pretty silly with it if they could hit Psychic/Normals. Freeze is kind of the entire concept here so not sure what to suggest. While Quiver Dance is useless rn any future mons with the move would be insanely volatile, prob gonna veto the concept of SpAtk/Atk + Speed boosting entirely. Again not sure what to suggest here.
Increased Poison Fang's power to 65, its not on par with elemental fangs from future generation. Increasing it more is undesirable, the point of this specific move is to be weak but with a huge 50% chance to cause the Poison, which then you can combine with stall tactics or Wrap.
Removed Nidoking from Drill Run learners but not Nidoqueen, hopefully veto is reconsidered, since while currently the rest of the learners of the move won,t be good Mons with it, with future submissions, it can help. For example, Fearow could be Ground-Flying flavor-wise, however EQ is not a move that fits on it design-wise. Drill Run then would be the main STAB for Fearow. Similarly, Beedrill is forever cursed with a terrible typing, but someone in a future submission might want to give it Mega Stats ( which includes 15 Special, so despite the 150 Attack and 145 Speed it would kinda be balanced). Seaking could either be Water-Normal or have Waterfall 100 power and being a physical move, etc. What I am saying is that currently those Mons would be bad even with the move, but that might not be the case forever.
Regarding Nidoqueen, I think that with Drill Run it would be a serious OU contender, but far from broken. Some calcs vs OU Mons (using Ground type Razor Leaf with 65 power):
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Tauros on a critical hit: 125-147 (35.4 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Tauros Blizzard vs. Nidoqueen: 166-196 (43.3 - 51.1%) -- 4.9% chance to 2HKO < Considering Tauros crit rate and moving first, Queen almost always will be losing 1vs1.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Snorlax on a critical hit: 156-184 (29.8 - 35.1%) -- 18.6% chance to 3HKO
Snorlax Earthquake vs. Nidoqueen: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 9.7% chance to 2HKO
Snorlax Ice Beam vs. Nidoqueen: 127-150 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO < Vs Snorlax, while Nidoqueen will leave it very weak and disable Reflect strats (which Persian already does btw and is not considered broken), it will still usually lose.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 329-387 (46.7 - 55%) -- 69.4% chance to 2HKO
Chansey Ice Beam vs. Nidoqueen: 171-202 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- 23.9% chance to 2HKO < Here Nidoqueen finally has the upper hand and is a total counter to IB less Chansey. However, the win is not 100% guaranteed.
Nidoqueen Blizzard vs. Exeggutor: 124-146 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 83.5% chance to 3HKO < Nidoqueen loses the 1vs1 unless it crits with Blizzard or freezes.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Starmie on a critical hit: 133-157 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO < Even paralyzed Starmie has a shot.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Alakazam on a critical hit: 189-223 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Only wins if Alakazam is paralyzed.
Gengar Psychic vs. Nidoqueen on a critical hit: 362-426 (94.5 - 111.2%) -- 66.7% chance to OHKO < If Nidoqueen becomes a common Mon, Gengar will have to run Psychic more often, but if it crits, it wins. Obviously Drill Run OHKOs Gengar.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Rhydon on a critical hit: 214-252 (51.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Nidoqueen: 282-332 (73.6 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Clear Nidoqueen win, but it already did that with Blizzard.
Nidoqueen Thunderbolt vs. Cloyster: 127-150 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Cloyster on a critical hit: 79-93 (26 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Cloyster Blizzard vs. Nidoqueen: 280-330 (73.1 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Nidoqueen loses to Cloyster, though neither can switch into each other.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Jynx on a critical hit: 211-249 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO < Only wins vs paralyzed Jynx.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Slowbro on a critical hit: 113-133 (28.7 - 33.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO
Nidoqueen Thunderbolt vs. Slowbro: 134-158 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO < Loses, unless it crits with Tbolt.
Nidoqueen Razor Leaf vs. Victreebel on a critical hit: 156-184 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 1.8% chance to 2HKO
Victreebel Razor Leaf vs. Nidoqueen on a critical hit: 137-162 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO < Wins, but only if avoids status.
Zapdos Drill Peck vs. Nidoqueen: 89-105 (23.2 - 27.4%) -- 67.5% chance to 4HKO
Nidoqueen Blizzard vs. Zapdos: 124-146 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO < Wins, but not 100% reliable.
Obviously wins vs Jolteon, becoming its biggest counter.
Hopefully this proves that while Nidoqueen becomes very strong with Drill Run, its far from a dominating broken threat and will require teammate's assistance to wear down its checks in order to actually win games, just like any OU Pokemon, including Tauros. At the same time, the other users of the move currently are not good, but might be in the future with the right modifications. They are still somewhat improved even without further boosts, for example Rapidash does a respectable 39% min damage to Rhydon, which it couldn,t do before without crits.
Mainly just flavor, though hitting Gengar and Tentacruel (who normally walls Dewgong) is good. Not giving the move to Lapras or Cloyster, so now Dewgong has something to go for it.
Rhydon and Tentacruel can,t switch anymore.
Still bad, but beats Tentacruel and Gengar now.
