Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Seraphyde]

No idea what you mean by this, Weavile has nearly risen up to OU on ladder and in tour it's been successful in SPL and SCL with 4.96% usage in SCL and 5.93% usage in SPL already. Tinkaton is the same, very successful in tournaments.

Weavile has been hovering around 2.5% on ladder for a few months now, Stinkaton is above it by a full 1% but neither are looking OU worthy any time soon. Don't know about SPL and SCL but saying that either have nearly risen to OU is just incorrect.

OU only has a few quad resists to bug, of which Moltres, Pecharunt, Gholdengo, Iron Moth, and Enamorus hate either rocks or its Dark STABs, while mons like Glimm and Valiant don't like taking repeated knocks.

Most of those mons carry boots, Glimm can't switch in repeatedly but Val absolutely can, at least pre-Tera, and if removal is spammed even more on ladder, SR will not be as easy to keep up even if you manage to knock off boots with how obscenely consistent Great Tusk is at spinning.

 

[veti]

Weavile has been hovering around 2.5% on ladder for a few months now, Stinkaton is above it by a full 1% but neither are looking OU worthy any time soon. Don't know about SPL and SCL but saying that either have nearly risen to OU is just incorrect.

??? the usage stats came out yesterday. Tinkaton sits at 5.9% usage on ladder and is even higher in tour and Weavile sits at 4.14% usage on ladder and nearly beat out meow and is also even higher in tour. Both of these stats are taken from 1695 which determine tier shifts.

 

[JackRG]

remember when lokix was D rank on the VR? Feels like not that long ago, crazy how fast time flies

 

[Seraphyde]

??? the usage stats came out yesterday. Tinkaton sits at 5.9% usage on ladder and is even higher in tour and Weavile sits at 4.14% usage on ladder and nearly beat out meow and is also even higher in tour. Both of these stats are taken from 1695 which determine tier shifts.

I had to double check this but it seems that you're right for February. However, what I said still stands for the past two or three months, and I don't see this jump being more than a fad. Tink is nearly always forced to run Air Balloon and is basically just a Clefable sidegrade with less versatility. The metagame is very hostile to Weave right now with basically every Booster Speed user being game over for it, and the overload of walls either too bulky for its type advantages to matter (Ting-Lu, G*rg, Tusk (can't be OKOed even with no bulk investment) BoldGhold, and the Chas) or just flat out impenetrable due to type disadvantage (Dozo, M*la, Araq, and Zama). Moltres can be mitigated with Tera Fire and Corv can be mitigated with Tera Ghost, but that's about it.

 

[RainWaiv]

remember when lokix was D rank on the VR? Feels like not that long ago, crazy how fast time flies

TBF for a majority of SVOU, lokix's skillset wasn't needed much. RIght now it's good at chipping stuff down but its distinct weaknesses are reliance on priority due to low speed and being unable to switch in such a hazard-heavy metagame. There was stuff like gambit and ival that could generally hit harder, faster, and more consistently and the majority of chip damage was done through knock+hazards. Now that people are learning counterplay routes for these previous strategies something new needs to take it's place and lokix can provide solid chip with first impression/u-turn while having access to a hard-hitting knock and a relatively unused 4th slot that can run sucker punch or swords dance or something of that nature.

 

[SupaGmoney]

Just dropped the latest in stall innovation, a Heatran + Hydrapple No-Dozo stall, made by sire clod and myself. Gotta say, I have found the combo of Heatran + Hydrapple to be a really potent defensive core that is able to leverage it's typing and defensive bulk to in turn create serious offensive pressure on the typical Ting-Lu / Zama Balances and BOs that we have been seeing rise in popularity. This might be one of the most active stalls this generation yet. More info in the RMT here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/peaked-4-1978-elo-heatran-hydrapple-stall.3759294/

Switching gears however, there is a pressing situation I have to make an announcement about

I'm sure many of you are aware of the situation as to what happened recently in the former stall discord from Finchinator's Twitter, but I needed to make a statement regarding it:

Thank you everyone for bearing with me. I want to say that I was just as shocked as you all to learn what happened today.

First and foremost, I know people will be upset with me no matter what side I take, but I think it needs to be said that the values upheld by Trump and MAGA are incompatible with those of Big Stall. In order to make this a harmonious community where people are encouraged to contribute, politics of any kind cannot be allowed.

Those of you who know me will know that I have spent months trying to reform this place and change it for the better, and thankfully many of you have cooperated with my efforts. This is why I was so disappointed to see that the former server owner, someone who had invited me into this community and someone I had respected, go behind my back and make a post like that for a mere $50.

To see months of hard work spent on building this community undermined in an instant like that is beyond frustrating and it’s not something I can stand for. The spirit of Big Stall is and should always be on Pokémon first, and I can no longer say that about that server. That is why I have decided I will be leaving that server to start anew. I would like to invite you all to join me in rebuilding the brand new Stall Discord where we will ensure the safety and integrity of the server are the highest priority. I do not know what will happen to that server, but I know the Stall community will come back from this. After all, it’s the people like you that make this place what it is. It’s with a heavy heart that I leave that server, but I hope that I will see all of you in the new server. I would also suggest you leave the older server as I am no longer responsible for and cannot condone what goes on in it anymore.

We will still have all the resources, including:
- NEW FREE Tutoring for OU (Stall and Non-Stall)
- Replay Review - (Most recently helped TheColorRed gain 300+ ELO in under a month)
- Team Rating
- OU Sample Teams
- The Stall Bible and Stall OU VR
- And More

Finally, as part of the grand opening we will be hosting a Gen 9 OU tournament. Join the server for more details: https://discord.gg/C8ZD8ex72F

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I'm not checking everyday - I haven't logged in in a month. I'm only logging in today because it's been 30 days since my initial request and i'm following up on it. I have the right for my data to be deleted and as someone who works with data as their day job, it's something I take seriously. You can laugh at me all you want - if I cared about my perception here, I would have stopped posting long ago.

slight correction here, there's actually no law that gives you the right to have a service delete your posts. dsar requests are for accessing personal data that's been collected about you by a service, not for scrubbing your embarrassing posts from the internet. you have to do that on your own. honestly you should probably already know this if you work with data as your day job, kind of a bad look for you

Loxix will never be OU. It’s simply too niche of a pick and loses to common balancemons and fatmons like Garganacuck and Pecharunt. Against offense, it often relies on Tera to break certain threats such as Cinderace, Glimmora, and the ubiquitous elephants. Iron Moth and Iron Valiant in particular just completely feast upon it; It’s only really good into darkspam.

lokix is legitimately a fantastic mon right now and i'd honestly lobby for moving it up from a- to a proper. it's a mon that can virtually always get something accomplished, in any matchup. the middling attack stat doesn't really matter much when you can disrupt fat teams with unresisted knock, fuck up offense teams with unresisted fimp/sucker, easily gain momentum against both with unresisted uturn, and run all of these on the same set because you straight-up don't need coverage

 

[Conflux123]

slight correction here, there's actually no law that gives you the right to have a service delete your posts. dsar requests are for accessing personal data that's been collected about you by a service, not for scrubbing your embarrassing posts from the internet. you have to do that on your own. honestly you should probably already know this if you work with data as your day job, kind of a bad look for you

lokix is legitimately a fantastic mon right now and i'd honestly lobby for moving it up from a- to a proper. it's a mon that can virtually always get something accomplished, in any matchup. the middling attack stat doesn't really matter much when you can disrupt fat teams with unresisted knock, fuck up offense teams with unresisted fimp/sucker, easily gain momentum against both with unresisted uturn, and run all of these on the same set because you straight-up don't need coverage

Ngl I have a skill issue so I’m probably not qualified, but I have a couple problems with Lokix.

First of all, it doesn’t revenge kill EVERYTHING, and any fast sweeper with priority will also kill it back. This makes it so the Lokix teams I use have to fall back on a defensive core a lot more than I would expect it to, and yeah you can account for these but if you’re going to play the same in a lot of matchups then imo maybe Lokix isn’t so great.

My second problem is to get progress against some teams you have to click knock and uturn, and sometimes I feel like I have to play an uncomfortable mind game of thudding into their defensive Pokemon with first impression or clicking knock or uturn into them staying in and killing my main form of speed control.

Is there something I’m missing?

 

[EpicGuy321]

Ngl I have a skill issue so I’m probably not qualified, but I have a couple problems with Lokix.

First of all, it doesn’t revenge kill EVERYTHING, and any fast sweeper with priority will also kill it back. This makes it so the Lokix teams I use have to fall back on a defensive core a lot more than I would expect it to, and yeah you can account for these but if you’re going to play the same in a lot of matchups then imo maybe Lokix isn’t so great.

My second problem is to get progress against some teams you have to click knock and uturn, and sometimes I feel like I have to play an uncomfortable mind game of thudding into their defensive Pokemon with first impression or clicking knock or uturn into them staying in and killing my main form of speed control.

Is there something I’m missing?

Lokix is a mon that clicks button and switches out, of course you need a defensive backbone to fall back on. Especially if you run banded First Impression.

---

THE PAWN (Ceruledge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Bitter Blade
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak

This guy is epic. It takes 40% from Kyurem Earth Power.

 

[Heatranator]

Lokix is a mon that clicks button and switches out, of course you need a defensive backbone to fall back on. Especially if you run banded First Impression.

---

THE PAWN (Ceruledge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Bitter Blade
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak

This guy is epic. It takes 40% from Kyurem Earth Power.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Ngl I have a skill issue so I’m probably not qualified, but I have a couple problems with Lokix.

First of all, it doesn’t revenge kill EVERYTHING, and any fast sweeper with priority will also kill it back. This makes it so the Lokix teams I use have to fall back on a defensive core a lot more than I would expect it to, and yeah you can account for these but if you’re going to play the same in a lot of matchups then imo maybe Lokix isn’t so great.

My second problem is to get progress against some teams you have to click knock and uturn, and sometimes I feel like I have to play an uncomfortable mind game of thudding into their defensive Pokemon with first impression or clicking knock or uturn into them staying in and killing my main form of speed control.

Is there something I’m missing?

lokix isn't carrying games by itself, let me make that perfectly clear. it's got some issues, like the fact that it's really hard to get in, or the attack stat (notice i said it doesn't matter "much"—it still matters). but when you do get it in, it covers all of its options extremely well by being able to consistently make at least some lasting progress against both fast and fat opponents if played correctly, and in my opinion that makes it a good mon. it's no s-tier, or even a+, but i think it's a solid candidate for a with how well it can wear down a lot of modern ou structures

 

[Seraphyde]

how to beat rapid spin

• contact-punishing abilities like static and flame body make contact moves like rapid spin a much riskier click than it normally is. even though the spinner still gets the spin off, it risks being significantly crippled and you'll be able to get and keep hazards up more reliably in the future. the very existence of a static or flame body mon in the back is a soft deterrent to clicking contact moves
• position yourself in such a way that the spinner has to sacrifice most of its hp to get in (methods of doing this are left as an exercise for the reader), then switch in a rocky helmet user. if the spinner's at low health and faints from helmet damage, it doesn't remove the hazards. even if you don't have the opportunity to position in this way, helmet in general is a good way to wear down spinners in the long term, especially tusk, which almost exclusively runs contact attacks
• die before it can hit you. have a move like explosion or steel beam, or switch in something at low health without boots if hazards are up on your side, or have life orb, or do some similar thing that makes you faint so the spinner has no target when it clicks the move
• offensively pressure the spinner. this should be pretty straightforward if you can predict it coming in and safely get in something that can outspeed and immediately threaten a kill
• ghost-types, ghost-types, ghost-types. the absolute best counterplay to rapid spin is to just block the move altogether. between the defog-blocking gholdengo, the ever splashable dragapult, new rising star pecharunt, sleeper pick sinistcha, and skeledirge (which i still insist is goated), you can fit a good ghost-type on virtually any playstyle. this is also the exact reason why so many hazard setters run tera ghost—it's really great to have your hazard setter double as a spinblocker, so you see a lot of people going for ghost on hamurott, ting, glimm, treads, spikes gliscor, etc. this is especially effective when the ghost-type is paired with one of those contact punishers i talked about earlier—having two separate options in the back to punish rapid spin will heavily discourage people from just clicking it whenever they want. yes, spinners will often have coverage against ghost-types for this very reason, but it's important to note that no matter what they have against your ghost-type, they still can't click rapid spin as long as that mon is on the field

hopefully this will give you a good roadmap for doing well against rapid spin in future matches

Going to come back to this because I just lost two matches back to back because Great Tusk clicked Tera, clicked Rapid Spin, and then just Headlong Rushed my entire team to death, and I'm mad.

This is all helpful advice... before Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin. As I mentioned before, a speed boosted Great Tusk is nearly impossible to out-offense, even without accounting for Tera. I think people seriously need to consider the fact that this thing is just as bad as a Tera fish as Kingambit. You and pretty much everyone else are ignoring the fact that if you don't have either a booster speed/scarf user on hand or a physical wall, if Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin mid or late-game, you are basically guaranteed to lose, just like if Gambit gets an opportunity to SD. And of course, sometimes your counter can just get decimated by Tera regardless. Can you give me a single Pokemon that can handle every Tusk tera? I don't think so.

To tie this back into Lokix, it just completely thuds into Tusk and Zama, both of which are extremely common.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 216-256 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 150-178 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 224-264 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This guy puts it pretty well.

Ngl I have a skill issue so I’m probably not qualified, but I have a couple problems with Lokix.

First of all, it doesn’t revenge kill EVERYTHING, and any fast sweeper with priority will also kill it back. This makes it so the Lokix teams I use have to fall back on a defensive core a lot more than I would expect it to, and yeah you can account for these but if you’re going to play the same in a lot of matchups then imo maybe Lokix isn’t so great.

My second problem is to get progress against some teams you have to click knock and uturn, and sometimes I feel like I have to play an uncomfortable mind game of thudding into their defensive Pokemon with first impression or clicking knock or uturn into them staying in and killing my main form of speed control.

Is there something I’m missing?

 

[Dead by Daylight]

my guy, there is a concept titled “switching out”. now, when your Lokix hits a Tusk for over half its HP, you swap out and come back in to KO it off a safe switch or a sacrifice. does this make sense?

 

[Quackborg]

Going to come back to this because I just lost two matches back to back because Great Tusk clicked Tera, clicked Rapid Spin, and then just Headlong Rushed my entire team to death, and I'm mad.

This is all helpful advice... before Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin. As I mentioned before, a speed boosted Great Tusk is nearly impossible to out-offense, even without accounting for Tera. I think people seriously need to consider the fact that this thing is just as bad as a Tera fish as Kingambit. You and pretty much everyone else are ignoring the fact that if you don't have either a booster speed/scarf user on hand or a physical wall, if Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin mid or late-game, you are basically guaranteed to lose, just like if Gambit gets an opportunity to SD. And of course, sometimes your counter can just get decimated by Tera regardless. Can you give me a single Pokemon that can handle every Tusk tera? I don't think so.

ok, lemme say all the mons that take on great tusk after a rapid spin. I'll consider knock off and spinner as options here even though many more tusks are spinner. Alomomola, Araquanid (my goat), Corviknight, Clefable (if you are at full), boots pult (who doesnt ohko but a wisped tusk isnt sweeping shit), Multiscale Dnite, Scarf Enam, balloon bulky ghold, bulky your own tusk, booster speed moth, steel beam treads (who can even sakc itself to stop them from spinning, booster val, kyurem, ep lando, scarf meow, ogerpon wellspring, balloon pecha, physdef cm prim, ironpress or even regular zama, zapdos, ting lu, and even non tera roaring moon. This is a lot of mons that take on tusk pretty easily, and all of them are plenty viable to slap on your team. these are also purely ou mons, without considering their tera at all
EDIT: Scarfrai too

 

[Insolence]

Lokix is a matchup merchant which had a very strong showing in week two of SPL thanks to a good matchup into the strongest teams in the metagame at the time. While a cool 'mon, it is extremely limited by its hazard weakness, low power, and lack of variety in tera types. These factors all limit it to very specific BO and Balance teams, which are the only ones that can really take advantage of its unique attributes . While there isn't really any other mon that does what it can, what it does do is also only valuable to limited structures and easily exploitable.

I think its ability to make progress into fat is also extremely overstated, well built balances and stalls have no trouble progressing their own win conditions, and when you factor in just how difficult it is to safely get Lokix in onto the field, it rarely feels like it's accomplishing much in any given game.

It had a pretty mediocre showing this week in SPL, only winning a single game (and in that game, it clicked u-turn once and then was promptly sacked). As players start to prep for it, both on ladder and in tours, I don't see it having the same impact going forward without the surprise factor.

 

[658Greninja]

Going to come back to this because I just lost two matches back to back because Great Tusk clicked Tera, clicked Rapid Spin, and then just Headlong Rushed my entire team to death, and I'm mad.

This is all helpful advice... before Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin. As I mentioned before, a speed boosted Great Tusk is nearly impossible to out-offense, even without accounting for Tera. I think people seriously need to consider the fact that this thing is just as bad as a Tera fish as Kingambit. You and pretty much everyone else are ignoring the fact that if you don't have either a booster speed/scarf user on hand or a physical wall, if Great Tusk clicks Rapid Spin mid or late-game, you are basically guaranteed to lose, just like if Gambit gets an opportunity to SD. And of course, sometimes your counter can just get decimated by Tera regardless. Can you give me a single Pokemon that can handle every Tusk tera? I don't think so.

To tie this back into Lokix, it just completely thuds into Tusk and Zama, both of which are extremely common.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 216-256 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 150-178 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 224-264 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>”it completely thuds to Tusk and Zama”
>proceeds to show First Impression doing over half to Tusk and doing around 40% to +1 Zama

what is bro talking about?

If your team is struggling to deal with Tusk after it clicks Spin, either your team isn’t well-built or you played poorly.

Tusk is not hard at all to play around. You have checks such as Zapdos/Molt, Corv, Mola, Ogerpon, Araq, Balloon Pecha, Sinistcha, etc. Even so, its not difficult to pivot around with Lando, spinblockers, Zama, etc.

Most good spike stacking teams can very reliably prevent Tusk from getting up a spin with a combination of spinblockers, Tera Ghost, and continuous offensive pressure. Plus, Ting-Lu, the best spiker in the tier can straight up 1v1 Tusk most of the time. After a Ruination, Tusk is now in range of 2 EQs and Tusk doesn’t do enough back.

Saying Tusk is as good of a Tera abuser as Gambit is a such a fucking stretch that a rubber band would snap trying to match it. Often Tusk doesn’t abuse Tera and when it does, its mostly for honest Tera shenanigans like reactive defensive Teras, or boosting Ice Spinner or Headlong Rush’s dmg output.

Tera abusers like Gambit, Garg, Val, Moon, and Bolt can flip the script of entire game, which demands careful decision making through the early-to-mid game and teambuilding to not flop to. That doesn’t mean they’re broken, but it means they’re much more dangerous than something like Tusk.

Going back to Lokix for a sec. It’s kinda ironic that you list Tusk as a check. If anything, Lokix 1v1s it. If you don’t click First Impression like a bot, you can either U-Turn for heavy chip, Knock to remove Boots/Helmet, or Leech Life to heal tons of dmg and 2HKO Tusk due to its fat HP stat.

People underrate Lokix’s wallbreaking abilities. While it isn’t consistent, Tera Bug Leech Life and U-Turns are not easy for most Balances to switch into. Most dual Bug resists either hate Knock (Moltres/Ghold/Pecha), get worn down over time (Tinkaton), or are frail (Valiant). Corv is a strong counter, but Lokix can keep U-Turning after Knocking Helmet and continue the pressure with its teammates. Relying soley on Lokix to wallbreak is terrible, but pairing Lokix with other breakers like Kyurem or Specs Crown can devestate slower builds. It also helps that Lokix threatens one of the biggest mons in the meta rn, Ting-Lu, even if it has to be careful around rocks and Ruination.

What you said about Lokix being a high-skill celling mon is true. Lokix is a strong A-/A tier Pokemon, but it demands specific team support to function and hates SR in a meta where hazard removal is difficult due to Ting-Lu and his friendly ghost friends. Newer players will have a hard time knowing when to click something other than First Impression and will get frustrated when the opponent takes advantage of Lokix being locked into First Impression to set up. Ofc, there are matchups where Lokix can just spam First Impression, but in more Balance or BO-oriented matchups, you gotta turn on your brain.

 

[ausma]

Lokix is S on the VR. It just starts games you know what I mean?

Ackshually…. Lokix is A-. I don’t think it got any A-rank votes outside of Finchinator but I could be wrong.

Though I do agree Lokix is really spectacular and I’m def reconsidering rising it to A at least. The anti-offense properties are just ludicrously useful and we’ve been seeing a bit more HDB usage which makes it incredible on VoltTurn compositions, especially alongside Pokemon like HDB Raging Bolt. It’s crazy how far Tinted Lens First Impression and Knock Off can take a Pokemon.

 

[pika pal]

Not going to dignify another round of "Rapid Spin Bad" mongering with an outright quote, but Tusk going fast doesn't fix its 4 moves (limited coverage or no Bulk Up if Spinning), SpD Achilles's Heel, or STABs dual-resistance by almost anything ungrounded (given several are bulky enough for unboosted Ice Spinner even on a weakness). If Tusk using Rapid Spin (a traditionally reactive move by nature) is enough for it to steam roll your team, then I'm not pulling punches: your team and/or your play that game sucked hard and the issue's on your side.

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 165-195 (30.8 - 36.5%) -- 61.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 109-129 (28 - 33.2%) -- 86% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. +2 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 82-97 (21.1 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Moltres: 83-98 (21.6 - 25.5%) -- 1.1% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 142-168 (37 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

These are all mons that will have to take a hit in the worst scenario outlined here, that being switching into Tusk after it already has the +1 Speed on something else and thus have to stomach 2 hits minimum before doing anything to retaliate or Pivot. If you add things that can take the Rapid Spin proper on a prediction (not even strictly Spinblockers) this list balloons, and even Pecharunt becomes a check or Pivot with Parting Shot absolutely neutering Tusk despite HLR's Super Effective hit if you guess wrong on entry. All of the above is discounting that if Tusk is Spinning, it's either holding a power-lacking HDB or eaten a Spike or 2 worth of damage with no recovery, which is only going to make the wear down an even shorter endeavor; and if you're suggesting Rapid Spin is purely for the Speed then I direct you to any number of Dragon Dancers we have running around including the Moon, the Nite, and the Ice Age who do that specific job miles better when not trying to role compress.

And to top THAT off, HLR debuffs Tusk which is screaming "Priority Revenge" if that move is its only way to break through your team after a speed boost (which is common given KO and Ice Spinner are pretty pathetic into anything but a frail/SE target), with the likes of non-STAB Dragonite ESpeed doing half after a HLR, and this for the Lokix dismissed there.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 242-286 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 162-192 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO

if kyurem gets elected for a third suspect term before gholdengo gets so much as a slap on the wrist i’ll cry. don’t make me cry. that’s cringe.

As Gholdengo's number 1 hater (at least in terms of its gameplay principle), I can't ultimately endorse a Suspect when we have much more contentious Pokemon in the tier right now. Great Tusk keeps it from being a free Hazard Protector (ironically Tusk being one of the few Removal choices might make Ghold WORSE since it's all concentrated on that one instead of spread between stuff it could block), Kingambit is still living up to its title, and the tier has no shortage of good Ground, Ghost, and Dark types that chew up or make progress on it like Samurott, Darkrai, Dragapult, Lando-T, Ting-Lu, Roaring Moon, and the recent emergence of Lokix (notably one of the smaller handful of mons on Fat/Balance teams that Lokix can easily break through).

I hate what it does, but it's ultimately not warping the way the tier or its roster is played to a skill-less degree so it's a hard sell to kick out by tiering policy (but if there's another loophole, please emphasize).

 

[ausma]

Discussion about senorlopez and the legality around his stance(???) is not for this thread. I will be assisting him regarding his concern around his account deletion. If you have a complaint/concern of your own relating to the situation, please directly message the moderation team.

 

[Achohermano]

I've been running Taunt Great Tusk since Finch made a post about it around... One month - one a half months ago? Iirc, and I gotta say it is pretty darn good imo. Denying free turns to Corv or bulky mons that thought that could wish up, recover or Defog is reaaally good

 

[Karmazz]

(approved by Finchinator)

Hello all! I have a small project that involves collecting data so I would appreciate people filling this survey out. It's only 2 questions long and about gen 9 ou. Thanks!

LINK

 

[KamenOH]

(approved by Finchinator)

Hello all! I have a small project that involves collecting data so I would appreciate people filling this survey out. It's only 2 questions long and about gen 9 ou. Thanks!

LINK

I understand that the images are representations, but how the hell is the bulkwolf itself, Zamazenta, there three times? Is it really that blanketable?

 

[Finchinator]

I understand that the images are representations, but how the hell is the bulkwolf itself, Zamazenta, there three times? Is it really that blanketable?

Yes.

 

[hormonal teenager]

I don't really understand what you want to accomplish with suspecting multiple mons at once, because based on the example you gave, it sounds like you're advocating for broken to check broken, which is not something we want.

As for Stored Power, because it's a high distribution move, in order for the move to be banned, someone would have to make a compelling argument that the move is fundamentally uncompetitive, which is something I have yet to see.

I'm advocating for suspect testing multiple mons that were banned pre-dlcs together. which back in the day didn't have any answers to, but now they actually have answers that are either in OU or in some lower tier, or would serve as an answer to a mon that has been banned due to a complete lack of answers in the OU tier. the whole game's power level has increased, which, fair enough, has its own problems, but let's face it: pecharunt is NOT a broken mon, and its on the verge of being suspect tested.
GLISCOR, that got nerfed this gen, has been banned previously, and thankfully someone had the common sense of allowing it back in the OU tier.

point is, a mon that has reached an above 80% usage rate (pre-DLC) is a huge red flag to how the metagame isn't really healthy.
and that mon still has an usage rate 12% higher than the 2nd most used mon in the tier.

is that mon broken? arguably. do I think it should be banned? no, I just would like to see mons that offensively punish it in the tier, rather than the 2 best answers to it being still weak to one of its STABs, and one of them getting suspect tested because "it doesn't get OHKOed".

 

[FayaWizard]

I'm advocating for suspect testing multiple mons that were banned pre-dlcs together. which back in the day didn't have any answers to, but now they actually have answers that are either in OU or in some lower tier, or would serve as an answer to a mon that has been banned due to a complete lack of answers in the OU tier. the whole game's power level has increased, which, fair enough, has its own problems, but let's face it: pecharunt is NOT a broken mon, and its on the verge of being suspect tested.
GLISCOR, that got nerfed this gen, has been banned previously, and thankfully someone had the common sense of allowing it back in the OU tier.

point is, a mon that has reached an above 80% usage rate (pre-DLC) is a huge red flag to how the metagame isn't really healthy.
and that mon still has an usage rate 12% higher than the 2nd most used mon in the tier.

is that mon broken? arguably. do I think it should be banned? no, I just would like to see mons that offensively punish it in the tier, rather than the 2 best answers to it being still weak to one of its STABs, and one of them getting suspect tested because "it doesn't get OHKOed".

This idea is called “broken checks broken” and is the antithesis to the tiering policy. We do not let broken pokemon roam around because they check other brokens: it is unearthly for the tier as a whole, and forces centralized and poor metagames where it revolves around a very small list of Pokemon trying to overwhelm each other.

Let’s stop talking about freeing Annihilape now: it’s never going to go anywhere, and as long as it keeps Rage Fist and Tera remains in the tier, this Pokemon will never see the light of day in OU. It hasn’t come up as a re-suspect option for months, has little to no write ins on the survey, and will offer nothing to the tier except a broken threat that will singlehandidly kill Balance and Stall.