with NG SC)
-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons
- Thread starter Ransei
- Start date
with NG SC)
Your only WG mon is Dialga which has mid Spe bulk (100,100) and doesn't resist Moongeist. Therefore, since this team is balance I think MAud or Melo would be really good in this team.View attachment 714260View attachment 714261View attachment 714262View attachment 714263View attachment 714264 Any ideas to round out my team? (Preferably a WG Mon to not insta lose to
take this with a grain of salt as i'm not an amazing player, but there are some things i noticed when looking at this teamAny ideas to round out my team? (Preferably a WG Mon to not insta lose to
- any no guard mon with fissure steamrolls this team as long as they have a decent imposterproof, your only hope is getting gengar in which seems difficult with hazards up
- guardian of alola on chansey is really weird, usually if imposter isn't transformed it's because the opponent's behind a substitute and guardian of alola only gets rid of the substitute (when they can probably just make another sub), plus you can only use it once
- queenly majesty on mgar doesn't feel necessary, the only priority move targeting mgar is shadow sneak which is only common on alolan marowak and mega banette (which aren't all that common), you can usually just scout with imposter for random shadow sneaks anyways
overall i'd replace dialga with a different steel not weak to ground (scizor, ferrothorn, celesteela), replace guardian of alola with whirlwind, replace queenly majesty with magic guard or parental bond, and for your last pokemon, you could probably go with mega audino or meloetta to patch up gengar's moongeist weakness
Thank you all for advice :D
Faced this while playing yesterday
Can't tell you much about the rest of the team, but the two mons I saw make it so if your opponent leads with an Imposter mon, the game ends in a tie after 1000 turns.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (Arena Trap)
- Extreme Evoboost
- Moongeist Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Photon Geyser
Blissey (Shadow Tag) @ Leppa Berry
- Amnesia
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
- Recycle
When the Imposter mon clicks the second instance of Photon Geyser, the game tries to use the first and doesn't deduct any PP, so you can click Photon Geyser forever. Both mons are trapped, so swapping is impossible.
The Endless Battle clause never kicks in because only Heal Pulse, Floral Healing, Entrainment and Skill Swap cause a mon to become stale, so the Imposter mon never becomes stale, and the clause kicks in when both mons are considered stale.
This is my first post here, so I don't really know where to put this, but I think this clearly violates the Endless Battle clause.
Can't tell you much about the rest of the team, but the two mons I saw make it so if your opponent leads with an Imposter mon, the game ends in a tie after 1000 turns.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y (Arena Trap)
- Extreme Evoboost
- Moongeist Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Photon Geyser
Blissey (Shadow Tag) @ Leppa Berry
- Amnesia
- Shore Up
- Knock Off
- Recycle
When the Imposter mon clicks the second instance of Photon Geyser, the game tries to use the first and doesn't deduct any PP, so you can click Photon Geyser forever. Both mons are trapped, so swapping is impossible.
The Endless Battle clause never kicks in because only Heal Pulse, Floral Healing, Entrainment and Skill Swap cause a mon to become stale, so the Imposter mon never becomes stale, and the clause kicks in when both mons are considered stale.
This is my first post here, so I don't really know where to put this, but I think this clearly violates the Endless Battle clause.
Ok, I see the vision but isn’t it PURE hackmons? It would be really hard to ban something like this because of the nature of this teir.
Edit: AND there is counterplay to this like if the opponent doesn’t have imp chansy/Blissy the Strat will not work and scarf imp Blissy will just struggle to death and then the opponent will play without an imp. Or shed shell but I don’t know how common shed shell imp Blissy is
Last edited:
The Endless Battle Clause exists in PH as well, it would be possible to add "a Pokémon with twice the same move" as a stale condition without banning it (I believe).
Last edited:
Sorry can you elaborate on a tale condition?
I believe Guysmash meant a "stale condition". The clause works by checking whether both mons are stale (mons with Recycle/Pick Up/Harvest + Leppa Berry are automatically stale, and a mon affected by Heal Pulse, Floral Healing, Entrainment and Skill Swap are also considered stale).
The idea to "fix" this would be to add "having two instances of the same move" as something that causes staleness. I'm not asking for a ban, but for a revision of how the Endless Battle Clause works since this metagame has a bunch of things that can never happen in regular play.
As for the choice item idea: That's the reason why Blissey runs Knock Off. This does not work.
It's been a while since I last did VR noms, so here are some now. A new full personal VR will probably be coming after PHPL.
Regular VR
Chansey: S -> S+
At this point we can all agree that Chansey is a clear #1 in the meta, and while it's no RBY Electrode or SwSh Eternamax, I still think it's worthy of the S+ rank. It's the most splashable Pokémon in the meta, both in Innards and Imposter form, and it's often quite hard to tell which set it's running on team preview.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: A- -> B+
I haven't seen or used this for a while, and to be honest, I don't think it's on the same level as the other A- stuff. The Huge Power sets are just outclassed by Kartana if it's not running Solganium Z, and without sash, Solgaleo is often preferred for more bulk (and, to a lesser extent, speed). The reason I'm not suggesting for it to be any lower is because other sets, like Harvest, are still ok.
Deoxys-Speed: Keep in B
I do mostly agree with this, and I would nominate No Guard Deo to C or D. But No Guard isn't its only set. I haven't tried Comatose, and while it seems ok, it's not the reason I'm suggesting it not to drop. Mold Breaker hazard leads are actually good enough for it to stay in B imo. While it only works on non-psysurge/spam HO teams, it is quite effective on said teams, as it's the best way to reliably get webs and rocks up, and it punishes teams which rely on Magic Bounce to keep hazards off, especially HO teams.
Shedinja: UR -> Blacklist
Now that this garbage is finally off the VR I think we should put it in the land of Burn Up Fire-types. And yes, I have said Shedinja should be blacklisted before, but I'm saying it again because it's the change that needs to happen the most imo. I'm not even gonna explain how bad it is because I (and other people) already have. Yet last month, it still beat Kartana, Ashgren, Slaking, Mega Gyarados, Mega Audino, and more in usage on the whole ladder. It's the biggest noobtrap in the meta. The main argument against blacklisting Shedinja is that it "technically has a tiny niche on stall teams".
Wonder Guard VR
Mega Houndoom: C -> B+, at the very least B
It's a known fact that I'm a believer in Mega Houndoom. Ever since I first decided to use it for some unknown reason (possibly the same reason hendrit used WG sweeper Magnezone), I've found it to be a decent WG Sweeper. It's not that much weaker than Ash Greninja, it can run Revelation Dance instead of having to use the weaker Dark Pulse, and its secondary STAB is a lot better than Ashgren's. It's also one of the few WGs immune to Photon Geyser and Bug and Fairy-type moves (unfortunately that means it can't run Insect or Pixie Plate). And no, this isn't just me seeing something that looks good on paper and saying it's good; I have used it and it's better than most of the stuff below the A subranks. The only reason I'm not nomming it any higher is because the weakness to Stealth Rock and Fissure is quite problematic sometimes.
Umbreon: B+ -> idk but B+ is probably too high
I have NEVER seen this outside of Eeveelution teams. While it's (surprisingly) bulkier than MGyara both physically and specially, not resisting the best attack in the meta and not being able to do decent damage (Pursuit doesn't even 2HKO MMY switching out) make it very hard to justify using it over the latter. I still respect that it has a niche though.
Magearna: B- -> C (possibly UR)
I've only seen this on Cats and Rabbits, and I've only seen Cats and Rabbits like 3 times. I don't even know what it does, since it's weak to Fissure and only resists one Mold Breaker move.
Regigigas: B -> UR
Just use Arceus. The extra attack barely matters. The only reason I'm not nomming Slaking to UR is because it at least has more HP for Wish. Feel free to share your opinions on what I said.
Pheromosa: C -> UR
Feel free to reply to this and share your opinions on what I said. this is bolded because it won't let me unbold fsr
Regular VR
Chansey: S -> S+At this point we can all agree that Chansey is a clear #1 in the meta, and while it's no RBY Electrode or SwSh Eternamax, I still think it's worthy of the S+ rank. It's the most splashable Pokémon in the meta, both in Innards and Imposter form, and it's often quite hard to tell which set it's running on team preview.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: A- -> B+I haven't seen or used this for a while, and to be honest, I don't think it's on the same level as the other A- stuff. The Huge Power sets are just outclassed by Kartana if it's not running Solganium Z, and without sash, Solgaleo is often preferred for more bulk (and, to a lesser extent, speed). The reason I'm not suggesting for it to be any lower is because other sets, like Harvest, are still ok.
Deoxys-Speed: Keep in BI do mostly agree with this, and I would nominate No Guard Deo to C or D. But No Guard isn't its only set. I haven't tried Comatose, and while it seems ok, it's not the reason I'm suggesting it not to drop. Mold Breaker hazard leads are actually good enough for it to stay in B imo. While it only works on non-psysurge/spam HO teams, it is quite effective on said teams, as it's the best way to reliably get webs and rocks up, and it punishes teams which rely on Magic Bounce to keep hazards off, especially HO teams.
Shedinja: UR -> BlacklistNow that this garbage is finally off the VR I think we should put it in the land of Burn Up Fire-types. And yes, I have said Shedinja should be blacklisted before, but I'm saying it again because it's the change that needs to happen the most imo. I'm not even gonna explain how bad it is because I (and other people) already have. Yet last month, it still beat Kartana, Ashgren, Slaking, Mega Gyarados, Mega Audino, and more in usage on the whole ladder. It's the biggest noobtrap in the meta. The main argument against blacklisting Shedinja is that it "technically has a tiny niche on stall teams".
If you are not running Focus Sash, Shedinja dies to every offensive Pokémon.
If you are running Focus Sash, Sturdy is a wasted ability, since most teams either have 2 Pokémon that can hit it or are stall teams.
If you are not running Sturdy, you would probably run Prankster, so it can Destiny Bond something after it loses its sash.
This might seem like a genuine niche at first. But then you realise: any other Pokémon can do this, and if they get chipped without clicking Endeavour, they can still use Destiny Bond, while Shedinja cannot. They could also have some utility, like absorbing Toxic Spikes. So if you ever want to consider adding Shedinja to your team (not that anyone outside of low ladder would want to), consider running Level 1 Bulbasaur, Gastly, or Salandit instead.
TL;DR: Shedinja is completely outclassed by F.E.A.R.
If you are running Focus Sash, Sturdy is a wasted ability, since most teams either have 2 Pokémon that can hit it or are stall teams.
If you are not running Sturdy, you would probably run Prankster, so it can Destiny Bond something after it loses its sash.
This might seem like a genuine niche at first. But then you realise: any other Pokémon can do this, and if they get chipped without clicking Endeavour, they can still use Destiny Bond, while Shedinja cannot. They could also have some utility, like absorbing Toxic Spikes. So if you ever want to consider adding Shedinja to your team (not that anyone outside of low ladder would want to), consider running Level 1 Bulbasaur, Gastly, or Salandit instead.
TL;DR: Shedinja is completely outclassed by F.E.A.R.
Wonder Guard VR
Mega Houndoom: C -> B+, at the very least BIt's a known fact that I'm a believer in Mega Houndoom. Ever since I first decided to use it for some unknown reason (possibly the same reason hendrit used WG sweeper Magnezone), I've found it to be a decent WG Sweeper. It's not that much weaker than Ash Greninja, it can run Revelation Dance instead of having to use the weaker Dark Pulse, and its secondary STAB is a lot better than Ashgren's. It's also one of the few WGs immune to Photon Geyser and Bug and Fairy-type moves (unfortunately that means it can't run Insect or Pixie Plate). And no, this isn't just me seeing something that looks good on paper and saying it's good; I have used it and it's better than most of the stuff below the A subranks. The only reason I'm not nomming it any higher is because the weakness to Stealth Rock and Fissure is quite problematic sometimes.
Umbreon: B+ -> idk but B+ is probably too highI have NEVER seen this outside of Eeveelution teams. While it's (surprisingly) bulkier than MGyara both physically and specially, not resisting the best attack in the meta and not being able to do decent damage (Pursuit doesn't even 2HKO MMY switching out) make it very hard to justify using it over the latter. I still respect that it has a niche though.
Magearna: B- -> C (possibly UR)I've only seen this on Cats and Rabbits, and I've only seen Cats and Rabbits like 3 times. I don't even know what it does, since it's weak to Fissure and only resists one Mold Breaker move.
Regigigas: B -> UR Just use Arceus. The extra attack barely matters. The only reason I'm not nomming Slaking to UR is because it at least has more HP for Wish. Feel free to share your opinions on what I said.
Pheromosa: C -> URFeel free to reply to this and share your opinions on what I said. this is bolded because it won't let me unbold fsr
I do agree a lot except for MHoundoom :It's been a while since I last did VR noms, so here are some now. A new full personal VR will probably be coming after PHPL.
Regular VR
At this point we can all agree that Chansey is a clear #1 in the meta, and while it's no RBY Electrode or SwSh Eternamax, I still think it's worthy of the S+ rank. It's the most splashable Pokémon in the meta, both in Innards and Imposter form, and it's often quite hard to tell which set it's running on team preview.
I haven't seen or used this for a while, and to be honest, I don't think it's on the same level as the other A- stuff. The Huge Power sets are just outclassed by Kartana if it's not running Solganium Z, and without sash, Solgaleo is often preferred for more bulk (and, to a lesser extent, speed). The reason I'm not suggesting for it to be any lower is because other sets, like Harvest, are still ok.
View attachment 715124
I do mostly agree with this, and I would nominate No Guard Deo to C or D. But No Guard isn't its only set. I haven't tried Comatose, and while it seems ok, it's not the reason I'm suggesting it not to drop. Mold Breaker hazard leads are actually good enough for it to stay in B imo. While it only works on non-psysurge/spam HO teams, it is quite effective on said teams, as it's the best way to reliably get webs and rocks up, and it punishes teams which rely on Magic Bounce to keep hazards off, especially HO teams.
Now that this garbage is finally off the VR I think we should put it in the land of Burn Up Fire-types. And yes, I have said Shedinja should be blacklisted before, but I'm saying it again because it's the change that needs to happen the most imo. I'm not even gonna explain how bad it is because I (and other people) already have. Yet last month, it still beat Kartana, Ashgren, Slaking, Mega Gyarados, Mega Audino, and more in usage on the whole ladder. It's the biggest noobtrap in the meta. The main argument against blacklisting Shedinja is that it "technically has a tiny niche on stall teams".
If you are not running Focus Sash, Shedinja dies to every offensive Pokémon.
If you are running Focus Sash, Sturdy is a wasted ability, since most teams either have 2 Pokémon that can hit it or are stall teams.
If you are not running Sturdy, you would probably run Prankster, so it can Destiny Bond something after it loses its sash.
This might seem like a genuine niche at first. But then you realise: any other Pokémon can do this, and if they get chipped without clicking Endeavour, they can still use Destiny Bond, while Shedinja cannot. They could also have some utility, like absorbing Toxic Spikes. So if you ever want to consider adding Shedinja to your team (not that anyone outside of low ladder would want to), consider running Level 1 Bulbasaur, Gastly, or Salandit instead.
TL;DR: Shedinja is completely outclassed by F.E.A.R.
Wonder Guard VR
It's a known fact that I'm a believer in Mega Houndoom. Ever since I first decided to use it for some unknown reason (possibly the same reason hendrit used WG sweeper Magnezone), I've found it to be a decent WG Sweeper. It's not that much weaker than Ash Greninja, it can run Revelation Dance instead of having to use the weaker Dark Pulse, and its secondary STAB is a lot better than Ashgren's. It's also one of the few WGs immune to Photon Geyser and Bug and Fairy-type moves (unfortunately that means it can't run Insect or Pixie Plate). And no, this isn't just me seeing something that looks good on paper and saying it's good; I have used it and it's better than most of the stuff below the A subranks. The only reason I'm not nomming it any higher is because the weakness to Stealth Rock and Fissure is quite problematic sometimes.
I have NEVER seen this outside of Eeveelution teams. While it's (surprisingly) bulkier than MGyara both physically and specially, not resisting the best attack in the meta and not being able to do decent damage (Pursuit doesn't even 2HKO MMY switching out) make it very hard to justify using it over the latter. I still respect that it has a niche though.
I've only seen this on Cats and Rabbits, and I've only seen Cats and Rabbits like 3 times. I don't even know what it does, since it's weak to Fissure and only resists one Mold Breaker move.
Just use Arceus. The extra attack barely matters. The only reason I'm not nomming Slaking to UR is because it at least has more HP for Wish. Feel free to share your opinions on what I said.
View attachment 715131
Feel free to reply to this and share your opinions on what I said. this is bolded because it won't let me unbold fsr
- It can’t hit powerfully, it hits like a dead oyster (140 BS iirc). It’s SpA stat is definitely not enough to threat anything that is neutral to its moves and it can not run both of its STAB if it wants to selfproof with photon and running Shell Smash (just like GrenAsh).
- Its typing is good but it is weak to many good types : Water (Scald or WShuriken), rock (Stealth Rocks), ground (TArrows and get trapped by TWaves), fighting (outside some rare sacred/secret sword that not much an issue). All of its resistances (outside of Steel, Ghost and Psychic) are mid or bad.
- Just use GrenAsh (or PDon if you want fire STAB : PDon (150 BS) > MHoundoom (140 BS).
I have tried on a team but except strange improof I believe it shouldn’t be used, it’s C rank seems correct, maybe C+ rank.
sure, it's pure hackmons, but endless battle clause still exists and this should 100% trigger it
i think that for a mon to get S+ it should be truly centralizing to the point where not using it puts you at a disadvantage. Chansey is obviously a very good mon, and there isn't a single other mon in the game that constricts you in builder as much as chansey, but i don't think it's centralizing enough to be S+, simply because chanseyless builds are extremely potent, and bringing chansey can give you less slots for what your team actually needs.
while this may be true, ndm still has quite important rolls that make it still a very good huge power imo
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Solgaleo Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 267-315 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 297-349 (92.2 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
the speed also isnt actually that big of a deal because the extra speed really only helps with base 90 mons (such as pdon), but there aren't very many base 90 mons you're actually staying in on unboosted anyway, you're like also slower than fast gyara as well as hoopa-u but these aren't really important imo. There is also that ndm can run jolly and still have higher damage output than solgaleo with adamant (410 solg compared to 413 ndm), not that this is suggested since you lose out on the main draw of ndm and are still slower than ada solg
blacklist should be for things that see a lot of discussion, especially from newer players, yet have no niche. shedinja by definition doesn't fit this because, as you said, it has a niche, not a big enough niche to deserve being ranked, but even having this niche means it shouldn't be blacklisted imo
I was screwing around with wg sweepers i knew would be shit. I also used wg sweeper pidge, though i don't mention that as much because it performed worse than zone did. pidge is the highest spatk moongeist immunity (this is unfortunately genuinely true, special normal mons suck), and magnezone is a selfproof that can run stab sunsteel due to quad resisting it (whereas sunsteel kart gets ohkod by imp if they crit)
+2 252+ SpA Houndoom-Mega Revelation Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 414-488 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta: 392-464 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
im not convinced that this is good enough to warrant using it over ashgren.
ashgren vs houndoom also has several other things that you didn't mention. when you see houndoom you know that its wonder guard because it simply doesn't have any other viable sets. this isn't true for greninja though, which notably has no guard and water bubble sets, and has more opportunities to run more niche sets such as mguard due to having higher stats (most notably outspeeding mgar, mmx and having an actual phys attack for suit and knock). another similar aspect that has been completely ignored here is that houndoom cannot be used nearly as well in 2 wonder guard cores because it very notably is weak to fissure, meaning that certain no guards can just 6-0 you unless you have innards, but being forced to run innards just limits your team options more, you're especially weak into fissure + suit agren because your innards just gets gastro'd and pursuit trapped.
the extra attack makes it less passive, allowing it to smack things with decently powerful knocks, uturns and pursuit. i agree that slaking is better but regigigas is still fine as a pure normal wg because it can hit harder than arceus, and is mostly better into special mons than slak
252 Atk Regigigas switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Meloetta: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Regigigas Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Meloetta: 230-272 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Regigigas U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Meloetta: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
some examples of regigigas. obviously not as strong as gyara or scizor in each independent field, but its better than mgyara at turning and sciz at knocking/suiting
Last edited:
While we're on the subject, here's another set that can in theory cause an endless battle but I don't believe is currently blocked by Endless Battle Clause:
Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Toxic
- Ingrain
- Aqua Ring
It would be difficult to use in practice, since you first have to have another mon trick Leftovers to the Imposter (unless the Imposter brought their own Leftovers for some reason) and then you have to hit Imposter with Mean Look on the turn it switches in to Shuckle (unless they switch in and choose not to immediately switch out), but if you pull that off, the 5/16 passive healing from Poison Heal + Leftovers + Ingrain + Aqua Ring exceeds the Struggle damage + Struggle recoil.
Hi I'm Archey. I got to the top 5 of the leaderboard in about a week and wanted to show off my team.
I kinda just whipped it up on the spot and made minimal changes to it afterwards, so feel free to roast it however you like.
Proof in case it's necessary:
I kinda just whipped it up on the spot and made minimal changes to it afterwards, so feel free to roast it however you like.
King Boo (Gengar-Mega) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Sludge Wave
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Sacred Fire
- Sunsteel Strike
- Play Rough
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magic Coat
- Whirlwind
- Aromatherapy
- Final Gambit
Swampert-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Shore Up
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sing
- Sheer Cold / Fissure
- Gastro Acid
- Spider Web
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Lum Berry
Ability: Innards Out
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Spore
- Final Gambit
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Moongeist Beam
- Secret Sword
- Sludge Wave
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Lum Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Sacred Fire
- Sunsteel Strike
- Play Rough
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magic Coat
- Whirlwind
- Aromatherapy
- Final Gambit
Swampert-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Shore Up
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sing
- Sheer Cold / Fissure
- Gastro Acid
- Spider Web
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Lum Berry
Ability: Innards Out
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Spore
- Final Gambit
Proof in case it's necessary:
I always wondered what you put on that MMT Y
Last edited:
I believe it can be used over Yveltal of you're too weak to Sheer Cold (iirc it was the WG VR).
since you gave permission...
gengar lacks an improof on this team. gengar has moongeist, which destroys your megapert and secret sword, which destroys your blissey. your best option is unironically just to choose what you want it to kill and then try to rkill it (which won't even work if you're set up and they have hazards). Timid on gengar also kinda just doesn't help you here. your opportunities come from sash, timid is just giving up power when you don't need to.
mmx similarly isn't improofed and doesn't need jolly. pert really really doesn't take photon, and I don't think I need to explain how mmx can beat everything else on swap. sacred fire isn't wanted over v-create, because it loses out on 2hkoing fur coat doublade, especially since you're lum jolly
252 Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 106-126 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mewtwo-Mega-X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 208-246 (64.5 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
having your only status removal be on imp is kinda sketchy, and also not having a healing move is a weird choice. you don't really need final gambit, because trading imp is a losing trade like 70% of the time.
pert set is mostly whatever, but your team lacks consistent aromatherapy support and you have no way to get rid of hazards at all. you also have a suicide lead with rocks so you don't exactly need pert to have rocks as well
deoxys-speed is a mid no guard and everyone knows it. it loses to literally every priority attacker in the entire game, it doesn't resist any hazards, it's weak to u-turn, and it doesn't provide anything that other no guards can (such as ashgren being able to pursuit on swaps). I also don't really like spider web,because I feel that it commits too hard and you give up the opportunity to run support moves such as hazards. I personally would use spikes there. its also not really improofed because you only have 1 wonder guard. if they sing or gastro on the swap you kinda just get screwed
suicide hazards lead mmy is probably fine, but final gambit is wholly unnecessary. its not actually that threatening with final gambit because it's blocked by wonder guards, and wonder guards are already what has defog so they're the natural swap into this anyway. I would suggest using photon geyser or light that burns the sky to pressure wonder guards and punish them using defog
In my opinion chansey isn’t S+ because the gap in power between chansey and mmx isn’t big enough to warrant an entire tier difference especially when Blissy (who is legally a different pokemon) directly hurts it in this category. I just don’t think the gap between mmx zyguard and chansey is big enough for an entire tier differenceIt's been a while since I last did VR noms, so here are some now. A new full personal VR will probably be coming after PHPL.
Regular VR
At this point we can all agree that Chansey is a clear #1 in the meta, and while it's no RBY Electrode or SwSh Eternamax, I still think it's worthy of the S+ rank. It's the most splashable Pokémon in the meta, both in Innards and Imposter form, and it's often quite hard to tell which set it's running on team preview.
Now that this garbage is finally off the VR I think we should put it in the land of Burn Up Fire-types. And yes, I have said Shedinja should be blacklisted before, but I'm saying it again because it's the change that needs to happen the most imo. I'm not even gonna explain how bad it is because I (and other people) already have. Yet last month, it still beat Kartana, Ashgren, Slaking, Mega Gyarados, Mega Audino, and more in usage on the whole ladder. It's the biggest noobtrap in the meta. The main argument against blacklisting Shedinja is that it "technically has a tiny niche on stall teams".
If you are not running Focus Sash, Shedinja dies to every offensive Pokémon.
If you are running Focus Sash, Sturdy is a wasted ability, since most teams either have 2 Pokémon that can hit it or are stall teams.
If you are not running Sturdy, you would probably run Prankster, so it can Destiny Bond something after it loses its sash.
This might seem like a genuine niche at first. But then you realise: any other Pokémon can do this, and if they get chipped without clicking Endeavour, they can still use Destiny Bond, while Shedinja cannot. They could also have some utility, like absorbing Toxic Spikes. So if you ever want to consider adding Shedinja to your team (not that anyone outside of low ladder would want to), consider running Level 1 Bulbasaur, Gastly, or Salandit instead.
TL;DR: Shedinja is completely outclassed by F.E.A.R.
Feel free to reply to this and share your opinions on what I said. this is bolded because it won't let me unbold fsr
Shedinja can do something, it does fulfil a role on a team that nothing else can do. Fear doesn’t do anything like shedinja. It can’t do anything against wg and is threatened by almost every wg in the game, shedinja is not this weak to wg. Shedinja endeavour always leaves a pokemon at 1hp and can easy ko said pokemon afterwards fear can’t be sure that the opponent will attack to force à good endavor. Shedinja can take random moves like u-turn with sturdy, fear cannot. Even if it’s really really bad we shouldn’t blacklist pokemon just because they are common new player bait and aren’t that good they should be blacklisted if they have no nitch, don’t do anything unique and are common enough for new players to bring. Shedninja can do something special and can theoretically do something for a team, this is more then burn up has ever done.
Why do you have both Strength Sap and Shore Up on Zygod ? You'd prefer Spore or DBond over SSap I think.
Why do you have Shed Shell and PShot on MAud ? Imo running either Drakinium Z/Safety Goggles/... or Hazards/MCoat/... is better.
I don’t think Lagging Tail is smart with U-turn. Pokémons that will want to underspeed you will be mainly WG and U-turn would be Typing dependent. Use PShot/BPass or another item.
For Blissey I question the use of both Roar AND PSong. I've never seen it but is Trick that usefull ? You'll mainly fight subbed mons with imp.
Is the only point of MHera FImpression STAB ? It’s slow without boost moves and hit less hard than MMX or Kart for Sunsteel or PDon for VCreate. Idk maybe it’s typing is good as well.
Finnally for MMX if you have both Sunsteel and Photon maybe one could be replaced by its CFZ variant idk.
Isn’t Reflect enough to block band MMX ? And Spore puts it asleep (if no sub nor misty terrain) while you kill it with COffencer.
I understand the point of Shed, I'm asking why with PShot ? Running no switch move would allow you to be lv. 100 and have MCoat (you seem pretty weak to Comatose if MHera is dead).
For other points I understand. Just wondering, is FImpression that good with Band ? I mean you'll be forced to switch then and the oppo might use it to Set-Up or swicth safely. Same thing, is 2 choice items that usefull on both of your offence mons ?
Hi, for some time I've been wanting to make my own VR but rather than redo everything I'll just specify the modifications I've made.
REGULAR VR :
A+ -> S-
Lately, this pokemon has become increasingly centralist in this meta. Its Harvest set has forced most Zygarde-Complete to run Core Offencer just to counter it.
Its HP Silk Scarf set remains very strong, capable of killing many offensive threats with just Fake Out and Extreme Speed, even if the Harvest CFZ Spam set is still more present and more centralising than the FakeSpeed set.
Finally I think it could have an Set-Up Innards set that dies to special moves (with max Def) just like Exca, Solgaleo or Lunala.
A -> UR ?
I'm not saying that Regigigas is bad or that it’s not as strong as the other A-ranks.
However, everything Gigas does can be done by Slaking. In fact, Gigas' only advantage over Slaking is that it has a better special bulk. So I don't see the point of playing Gigas rather than Slaking (especially as Arceus can also tank the special effectively).
B+ -> A-
Celesteela is one of the few steel types that has a good special bulk making it capable of tanking efficiently special Photon. Moreover, its flying type makes it immune to ground and neutral to fighting STAB from MHera, MMX and MLop while resisting their other STABs.
With Steel type it’s not weak to Stealth Rocks and it only gives the electric weakness (which is only 10k Volts TBolt).
Its main sets are MBounce and PrankHaze. The PrankHaze set is really cool because it is not weak to Ice Shard contrary to Zygod.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 174-205 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
However you can’t switch in if the oppo has SSS/LTBTS at +2 but you'll tank it after Haze.
252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 324-382 (81.4 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
B+ -> B
I just think it has to much Def and SpD to be a good Innards. Finnaly it has only 133 SpA (iirc) which is not that much. It can has Lunalium Z ig.
B -> B+
Yourself already explain why it’s good, I think its 185 Atk is enough to threat many things and STAB FImp is enough to make it B+.
Its Triage set is viable with DPunch and Leech Life.
B -> B+
Type: Null with eviolite makes it one of the pokemon with the best bulk Special AND Physical. It can be MBounce or Fur Coat. It’s the best MBouncer / Fur Coat with Moongeist immunity.
B- -> C
Guzzfraud.
Same reasons as Lunala but it can’t deal damage and doesn't even die to Core Offencer from Zygod.
C -> B/B+
It has enough HP to kill many mons, especially both Mewtwo, and PDon as well as having low HP to die quickly (unlike Guzzlord).It has 2 excellent STABs, with TArrow it deals super effective damage to MSteelix/MAggron.
It can also be used against POgre/GrenAsh's water attacks as well as ground and fir attacks, which are everywhere. Also it has a good offense so it is not that passiv.
WG VR :
A- -> B+/B
Why should anyone use it ? Type: Null is bulkier and slower with the eviolite and Slak/Gigas.
Except for this :
I don’t see why anyone would want to be fast and bulky.
B- -> A-
I see it as a better Arceus since it's slower and bulkier than Arceus.
The only down side I can see it the weakness to MBreaker Knock Off and to PerishTrap + Taunt because it can't run Darkinium Z/Shed Shell.
Also it can’t deal damage contrary to Arceus ig...
If Arceus goes in B+/B and Type: Null is just a better version it might goes in B+ but definitely not lower.
C -> UR
REGULAR VR :
A+ -> S-Lately, this pokemon has become increasingly centralist in this meta. Its Harvest set has forced most Zygarde-Complete to run Core Offencer just to counter it.
Its HP Silk Scarf set remains very strong, capable of killing many offensive threats with just Fake Out and Extreme Speed, even if the Harvest CFZ Spam set is still more present and more centralising than the FakeSpeed set.
Finally I think it could have an Set-Up Innards set that dies to special moves (with max Def) just like Exca, Solgaleo or Lunala.
A -> UR ?I'm not saying that Regigigas is bad or that it’s not as strong as the other A-ranks.
However, everything Gigas does can be done by Slaking. In fact, Gigas' only advantage over Slaking is that it has a better special bulk. So I don't see the point of playing Gigas rather than Slaking (especially as Arceus can also tank the special effectively).
B+ -> A-Celesteela is one of the few steel types that has a good special bulk making it capable of tanking efficiently special Photon. Moreover, its flying type makes it immune to ground and neutral to fighting STAB from MHera, MMX and MLop while resisting their other STABs.
With Steel type it’s not weak to Stealth Rocks and it only gives the electric weakness (which is only 10k Volts TBolt).
Its main sets are MBounce and PrankHaze. The PrankHaze set is really cool because it is not weak to Ice Shard contrary to Zygod.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 174-205 (43.7 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
However you can’t switch in if the oppo has SSS/LTBTS at +2 but you'll tank it after Haze.
252+ Atk Huge Power Kartana Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 324-382 (81.4 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
B+ -> BI just think it has to much Def and SpD to be a good Innards. Finnaly it has only 133 SpA (iirc) which is not that much. It can has Lunalium Z ig.
B -> B+Yourself already explain why it’s good, I think its 185 Atk is enough to threat many things and STAB FImp is enough to make it B+.
Its Triage set is viable with DPunch and Leech Life.
B -> B+Type: Null with eviolite makes it one of the pokemon with the best bulk Special AND Physical. It can be MBounce or Fur Coat. It’s the best MBouncer / Fur Coat with Moongeist immunity.
B- -> CGuzzfraud.
Same reasons as Lunala but it can’t deal damage and doesn't even die to Core Offencer from Zygod.
C -> B/B+It has enough HP to kill many mons, especially both Mewtwo, and PDon as well as having low HP to die quickly (unlike Guzzlord).It has 2 excellent STABs, with TArrow it deals super effective damage to MSteelix/MAggron.
It can also be used against POgre/GrenAsh's water attacks as well as ground and fir attacks, which are everywhere. Also it has a good offense so it is not that passiv.
WG VR :
A- -> B+/BWhy should anyone use it ? Type: Null is bulkier and slower with the eviolite and Slak/Gigas.
Except for this :
Hello, I'd like to suggest a set that I think might be worse to be added to the setpedia.
Before detailing the set, I'll explain why I chose Arceus and not another pokemon :
First, I wanted a pokemon with a good global...
Here it is, the set is for
(Arceus) :
Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Nature's Madness / Infestation
As you can see it's a subseed set. (Arceus) :Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Nature's Madness / Infestation
Before detailing the set, I'll explain why I chose Arceus and not another pokemon :
First, I wanted a pokemon with a good global...
B- -> A-I see it as a better Arceus since it's slower and bulkier than Arceus.
The only down side I can see it the weakness to MBreaker Knock Off and to PerishTrap + Taunt because it can't run Darkinium Z/Shed Shell.
Also it can’t deal damage contrary to Arceus ig...
If Arceus goes in B+/B and Type: Null is just a better version it might goes in B+ but definitely not lower.
C -> URFeel free to trash talk this VR if you have good arguments I'd be glad to prove you wrong.
What’s the problem with MHera Triage ?
Guzzlord has maybe some good sets but the innards is definitely bad
Doublade walls it every days EXCEPT if it has SpecThief : +2 252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def 0 IVs Excadrill: 742-874 (175 - 206.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And Exca dies to special moves, particularly water ones from MSlowbro, POgre, GrenAsh ; it also dies to special ground moves runned to kill AMuk, aura sphere (it exists to not kill chansey and hit slak more effecrivly then Secret Sword) (and Burn Up)
If Arceus is niche because of item, it shouldn't be in A- I really think B+ is fine
Making my own VR cuz I am bored, (Bolded=More common abilities) NOT ORDERED
S+
(Imposter, Innards out, Wonder Guard)
(Imposter, Innards out, Wonder Guard)
(Wonder Guard) Not making a Wonder guard VR
S
(Huge Power, Magic Guard) Could go in S+ Personal opinion
(Prankster, Imposter)
S-
(Harvest, Huge Power, Wonder Guard)
(Wonder Guard)
A+
(Huge Power, Magic Guard, Shadow Tag, Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce)
(Huge Power, Magic guard, Magic Bounce, Wonder Guard)
(Wonder Guard, Huge Power, Water Bubble, No Guard)
(parental Bond, Magic Guard, Dazzling)
(Sturdy, Wonder Guard)
A
(Sturdy, Fur Coat, Prankster, Magic Bounce)
(Huge Power, Triage) Maybe B?
(Prankster, Wonder Guard, Fur Coat)
(Wonder Guard, Huge power, Mold Breaker)
(Wonder Guard)
(Prankster)
(No Guard, Wonder Guard) I’m biased because one time I got ran over by ng Fissure, Zap Cannon Zera
Simply outclassed
B+
(No Guard)
(Innards Out, Wonder Guard)
(No Guard, Comatose)
(Psychic Surge, Magic Guard, Dazzling)
(Triage, Aerilate, Shadow Tag, Mold Breaker, 'Contrary, low ladder players only')
(Wonder Guard, Prankster)
(Wonder Guard)
B-
(Psychic Surge, Dazzling)
(Magic Bounce, Wonder Guard)
(Huge Power, Wonder Guard, ‘Mold Breaker, also a low ladder classic)
(Innards out)
C
(Wonder Guard, Prankster) never seen this on ladder probably for good reason
(Harvest, Wonder Guard) I used this one time and I thought I was a genius it still SUCKS
(Wonder Guard?)
Why?
Outclassed by Cres
Low ladder stuff
S+
(Imposter, Innards out, Wonder Guard)(Imposter, Innards out, Wonder Guard)(Wonder Guard) Not making a Wonder guard VRS
(Huge Power, Magic Guard) Could go in S+ Personal opinion(Prankster, Imposter)S-
(Harvest, Huge Power, Wonder Guard) (Wonder Guard)A+
(Huge Power, Magic Guard, Shadow Tag, Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce) (Huge Power, Magic guard, Magic Bounce, Wonder Guard) (Wonder Guard, Huge Power, Water Bubble, No Guard) (parental Bond, Magic Guard, Dazzling) (Sturdy, Wonder Guard)A
(Sturdy, Fur Coat, Prankster, Magic Bounce) (Huge Power, Triage) Maybe B? (Prankster, Wonder Guard, Fur Coat) (Wonder Guard, Huge power, Mold Breaker) (Wonder Guard) (Prankster)(No Guard, Wonder Guard) I’m biased because one time I got ran over by ng Fissure, Zap Cannon ZeraSimply outclassed
B+
(No Guard) (Innards Out, Wonder Guard)(No Guard, Comatose) (Psychic Surge, Magic Guard, Dazzling) (Triage, Aerilate, Shadow Tag, Mold Breaker, 'Contrary, low ladder players only') (Wonder Guard, Prankster) (Wonder Guard)B-
(Psychic Surge, Dazzling) (Magic Bounce, Wonder Guard) (Huge Power, Wonder Guard, ‘Mold Breaker, also a low ladder classic) (Innards out)C
(Wonder Guard, Prankster) never seen this on ladder probably for good reason (Harvest, Wonder Guard) I used this one time and I thought I was a genius it still SUCKS (Wonder Guard?)Why?
Outclassed by Cres Low ladder stuff
Last edited:
Thinks I don't agree with : WHY DON’T I SEE EXCA AND MSCIZOR !!Making my own VR cuz I am bored, (Bolded=More common abilities) NOT ORDERED
S+
S-
A+
A
B+
B-
And the rest of the shit I don't want to talk about
More seriously :
- 4 S+ is too much, S+ is the tier of the best pokemon that is needed in every team like Electrode in gen 1, MVenusaure in let’s go (iirc) or EEternamax in gen 8. None of this mons are necessary. S is fine.
- MGar (sadly) doesn’t deserves S- rank, contrary to Slak or MMX it doesn't hit strong enough to be centralising.
- Doublade Fur Coat is way to bulky to be in A, it deserves A+ : it’s fudging bulky and doesn’t need Shed Shell since it’s a ghost.
- I believe MHera deserves the Triage ability, not in bold ofc.
- Melo and NDW are to low : they are at A+ rank in WG, they don’t deserve to be in B+.
- Deo-S loses to too much things, being weak to FImp and Shadow Sneak when you want to be fast is bad.
- I see neither Type: Null nor Arceus nor Gigas, for Gigas I can understand since there is Slak but others are too good with no remplacement to be forgotten.
Last edited: