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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed

  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
https://pokepast.es/9830f2ad6e1b70a0
After playing quite a bit i can confirm that Mega Gyarados is quite good. It's typings both in base and mega are very useful into common defensive cores. DD Taunt lets you break past Skarmory for Scolipede + avoiding random twave from mons like Clef or Slowbro. Scolipede is pretty decent if Skarm is removed, the speed tier is pretty clutch for revenge killing mons like Gengar and chipped Mega Gallade.
The first version of this team featured Mega Dragonite with Agility 3 attacks, it's good when it hits... but it doesn't hit so to the bin it went. Personally i think making it a breaker with Sheer Force might be a better call for an ability, as it's not doing all that much in a vacuum with the Clefs and Glowkings and Ttars running around.
 
Tier Change Suggestion:
:Jolteon: UU->UUBL
Reasons:
1. Jolteon is tied for being the fastest non-mega Pokemon in the meta, while also having STAB-boosted Volt Switch for pivoting.
2. Jolteon's main rival for fast special pivot is Greninja, but Jolteon has a few things that make it unique. For one, Jolteon can counter opposing Greninja without needing to rely on a speed tie. It is also immune to paralysis and heals from Electric attacks, giving it sustain as well as a way to switch in safely. Jolteon's stats are mostly the same as Greninja except for one: while Greninja has a large attack stat that allows it to run mixed sets, Jolteon takes those points and puts them into special defense, which, combined with its lack of weaknesses, lets it survive some crucial damage, especially in the late game.
3. The main drawback of Jolteon is it's lack of coverage, meaning it almost always has to switch out against ground types in theory. I say "in theory" though because 3/4 of the OU ground types are weak to fairy, and Jolteon has access to Alluring Voice. With good prediction, a Choice Specs Jolteon can actually threaten a 2HKO into Garchomp, a 60% chance of an OHKO into Krookodile (100% with only 1 layer of spikes), and a guaranteed OHKO into Zygarde-10%. This leaves Excadrill as the only real counter to a late-game Jolteon sweep, but plenty of other Pokemon counter Excadrill very well.
4. From the UU side of things, Jolteon forms very strong cores with Pokemon like Mega-Drampa, Mega-Feraligatr, Shell-Smash Blastoise, and Clawitzer due to the fact that every ground type in UU is weak to water. Similarly, every grass type that resists Jolteon's STAB is weak to fire, meaning a well built team is very easily able to counter almost all of Jolteon's hard match ups. Jolteon instead is mostly checked by other electric types like opposing Jolteon, Raichu and Emolga. This is a problem though because if the best check to Jolteon is Jolteon itself, it makes games more dependent on stalling and speed ties, potentially warranting a ban.
Summary:
Jolteon has its flaws, but given the limited number of checks in UU, its niche in OU, and overall being a decently powerful Pokemon, I think it should be considered as either as OU or UUBL
 
hi, i'm new to this sort of discussion, should freeze clause be introduced? question motivated by a silly series of turns i just experienced

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fluff!! said:
You are correct, balance still has the great tools you highlighted. I was moreso talking about the current state of balance however, which is dismantled by the mons I have highlighted. Greninja alone beats all of the mons you cited, maybe with the exception of Vaporeon, and you know what Gallade and Starmie do as well. I'm not a fan of Rege-Teleport spam, but mons like Eelektross-Mega and Mawile-Mega will still exist to beat bulkier builds decisively. Doesn't matter that balance has great tools if a handful of breakers just ignore all that entirely. Right now, teams don't have to make concessions to beat more defensive teams since stuff like Mega Starmie and Mega Greninja also happen to have great matchups against offense, which kind of breaks the rules of previous balance breakers like Hoopa-U, Crawdaunt, or Ursaluna having much weaker matchups against offense/HO.
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Hopping in to give flowers to Florges again after stealing it from the mention way earlier, Gren check and Clef sidegrade that has enough base spdef already to go 252 def to live gunk shot and still wall everything it needs to.

Gets things like defog and psynoise over eternal as well, forget who brought it up originally but it's been putting work in despite it's complete lack of real abilities.
 
ThestralZVGC said:
Tier Change Suggestion:
:Jolteon: UU->UUBL
Reasons:
1. Jolteon is tied for being the fastest non-mega Pokemon in the meta, while also having STAB-boosted Volt Switch for pivoting.
2. Jolteon's main rival for fast special pivot is Greninja, but Jolteon has a few things that make it unique. For one, Jolteon can counter opposing Greninja without needing to rely on a speed tie. It is also immune to paralysis and heals from Electric attacks, giving it sustain as well as a way to switch in safely. Jolteon's stats are mostly the same as Greninja except for one: while Greninja has a large attack stat that allows it to run mixed sets, Jolteon takes those points and puts them into special defense, which, combined with its lack of weaknesses, lets it survive some crucial damage, especially in the late game.
3. The main drawback of Jolteon is it's lack of coverage, meaning it almost always has to switch out against ground types in theory. I say "in theory" though because 3/4 of the OU ground types are weak to fairy, and Jolteon has access to Alluring Voice. With good prediction, a Choice Specs Jolteon can actually threaten a 2HKO into Garchomp, a 60% chance of an OHKO into Krookodile (100% with only 1 layer of spikes), and a guaranteed OHKO into Zygarde-10%. This leaves Excadrill as the only real counter to a late-game Jolteon sweep, but plenty of other Pokemon counter Excadrill very well.
4. From the UU side of things, Jolteon forms very strong cores with Pokemon like Mega-Drampa, Mega-Feraligatr, Shell-Smash Blastoise, and Clawitzer due to the fact that every ground type in UU is weak to water. Similarly, every grass type that resists Jolteon's STAB is weak to fire, meaning a well built team is very easily able to counter almost all of Jolteon's hard match ups. Jolteon instead is mostly checked by other electric types like opposing Jolteon, Raichu and Emolga. This is a problem though because if the best check to Jolteon is Jolteon itself, it makes games more dependent on stalling and speed ties, potentially warranting a ban.
Summary:
Jolteon has its flaws, but given the limited number of checks in UU, its niche in OU, and overall being a decently powerful Pokemon, I think it should be considered as either as OU or UUBL
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If no one used it it doesn't stay in OU. That makes sense, because Jolteon faces numerous problems that makes its position, (and almost all of the Electrics in the tier really) very suspect, and that's it's lack of coverage. Too many Grounds are in OU, it can't do meaningful damage to one of the best ones and requires being tapped into a rather disappointing coverage option (Alluring Voice) to hit the others. Outspeeding Greninja is nice but not worth being a dead slot. Then we take a look at the UU "tier". And Jolteon itself faces a lot of problems in the hypothetical UU tier, it's not breaking anything there. The Ground types are better at strictly being walls, the Grass types are more diverse and all bulkier on the SpD side and it's 100% outclassed by Mega Manectric, who is faster, stronger and can KO Grasses and do big damage to with Overheat to Hippo. It's also not the fastest in UU by a long shot with things like Mega Beedrill and Mega Aero lurking. So even if it didn't automatically fails to qualify for OU due to usage, there is absolutely nothing about Jolteon that would require it being banned from the UU tier as it currently exists, this it wouldn't be UUBL.
 
Wanted to try out mega Skarmory, used this set.

Skarmory @ Skarmorite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly nature
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ended up being really good, with Taunt it shuts down a lot of Pokemon that would otherwise wall it like opposing Skarmory. It does struggle against fast hyper offensive teams though
 
Sugarbear said:
Wanted to try out mega Skarmory, used this set.

Skarmory @ Skarmorite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly nature
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Ended up being really good, with Taunt it shuts down a lot of Pokemon that would otherwise wall it like opposing Skarmory. It does struggle against fast hyper offensive teams though
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In your base form you should run Weak Armour, you can run a moderate amount of speed and still outspeed Mega Greninja in your Mega form after gaining +2 Speed. Also I think every Skarmory set should have Iron Head and Drill Run and probably should run Drill Peck over Brave Bird. All the moves I mentioned get buffed by Tough Claws ofc. Iron Head lets you break Unaware Clefable for example and Drill Run lets you break through Steels like Goodra-H and scary mons you can’t usually one shot like Volcanion.
 
I've tried him and he's alright, Dragon's maw makes dragon claw actually useful (I don't want to be locked into Outrage with the amount of fairies and steels running around) also very physically bulky.
Faux Focalors Furina said:
It's not banned, it's just not coded into the base legends za game.

Also has anyone tried Mega Feraligatr? I tried using him but he always comes short somehow for me ^^"
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i_love_everyone said:
Can the ability on Mega-Greninja be changed? No doubt it was absurdly strong with technician, but I feel like giving it protean pretty much just objectively makes it worse than a regular choiced greninja. Honestly giving it Protean is just a straight-up negative since you don't get to abuse your dual-stabs.
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I heavily disagree with this, I’ve been using Mega Greninja on ladder and many still believe it to be way too overwhelming. Even if you’re locked in with Protean, you can still use your other coverage whilst not being locked in with a choice item. The boost to your speed lets you outspeed most scarf users and the bulk can genuinely help you live important hits. You also get a nice amount of Attack boost too.
 
SwordIsBored said:
I heavily disagree with this, I’ve been using Mega Greninja on ladder and many still believe it to be way too overwhelming. Even if you’re locked in with Protean, you can still use your other coverage whilst not being locked in with a choice item. The boost to your speed lets you outspeed most scarf users and the bulk can genuinely help you live important hits. You also get a nice amount of Attack boost too.
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I don't doubt that it's still very strong, but losing one of your Stabs is such a huge detriment to the majority of sets it would want to run, considering it pretty much only ran Water/Dark moves already. I just feel like there's a better way to balance it than kneecapping its ability and making it compete with its non-mega version (especially in a tier where your mega slot has so much competition)
 
i_love_everyone said:
I don't doubt that it's still very strong, but losing one of your Stabs is such a huge detriment to the majority of sets it would want to run, considering it pretty much only ran Water/Dark moves already. I just feel like there's a better way to balance it than kneecapping its ability and making it compete with its non-mega version (especially in a tier where your mega slot has so much competition)
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I agree with this, yes it's strong but I still feel that it's a waste of a mega slot, plus with all the hazards and spikes it's quite a hassle to switch and with all the resists it's hard, and if you want to run nasty plot you have to be locked into dark (unless you're using torrent on normal Greninja).
 
King of Komedy said:
I agree with this, yes it's strong but I still feel that it's a waste of a mega slot, plus with all the hazards and spikes it's quite a hassle to switch and with all the resists it's hard, and if you want to run nasty plot you have to be locked into dark (unless you're using torrent on normal Greninja).
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If M-Greninja gets a strong ability then it’s 100% going to get banned. It’s already borderline. Please take this into consideration when suggesting new abilities. A cool new ability will only be interesting until it gets banned, so what’s the point? Give it something mid so we can actually use it
 
Imperator Romanum said:
If M-Greninja gets a strong ability then it’s 100% going to get banned. It’s already borderline. Please take this into consideration when suggesting new abilities. A cool new ability will only be interesting until it gets banned, so what’s the point? Give it something mid so we can actually use it
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I feel like if you need to nerf it like this in order for it to be usable it should be banned. It was clearly broken without the nerf and I would say the way Mega Greninja is now was not the intended state it should be in because nasty plot just straight up makes it lose its stab.
 
Ningenhater said:
Then they should change it back. Flower veil is NOT gonna make Mega Meganium any more viable than its base form.
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This is just cap.

To note it gains an additional typing, which cancels out its U-turn weakness, adds a dragon immunity, and is now a dark resist, Mega Meganium's defensive profile is significantly better than its base form and it still sees use from the playerbase in the meta, whereas base Meganium is not even considered in the builder, I would rather use Average Sized Gourgeist.
 
UltraSword said:
I feel like if you need to nerf it like this in order for it to be usable it should be banned. It was clearly broken without the nerf and I would say the way Mega Greninja is now was not the intended state it should be in because nasty plot just straight up makes it lose its stab.
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I mean yeah fair enough, straight up banning Greninja would be a fair course of action at this point.

In the end this is a pet mod with looser rules. Those arguing in favor of a strong, cool or even shiny new ability for Gren should take into account that it won’t be playable for long if that’s the case.

Protean making the NP sets less viable is kinda good for the meta imo. Nasty plot really pushes gren over the edge
 
Ningenhater said:
Meganium-Mega
Ability: Triage
Pls bro Meganium just needs some kind of buff. (Plus it gets a lot of healing moves)
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The only 2 healing moves Meganium gets are Giga Drain and Synthesis.
Aromatherapy and Leech Seed doesn’t work with Triage, and Meganium doesn’t learn Draining Kiss (yet).
Flower Veil isn’t even bad, it’s just different. It’s effectively Purifying Salt but trades Ghost resistance for stat drop immunity.
 
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