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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Well it depends on game state and what sets either runs.
Meganium wins when Heatran switches in or SpD variants using Lava Plume in a 1v1.
Heatran wins when Meganium switches in or while using Magma Storm.
In an actual match, Meganium should actually win most of the time because of its speed. Heatran doesn't get any form of healing of its own and is suspectable to hazards, which helps Meganium beat Heatran.
vs Offensive Heatran
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 290-344 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran-Mega Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 362-428 (120.2 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs SpD Heatran (also with variant that outspeeds Kingambit too)
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 140+ SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 195-231 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 290-344 (96.3 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran-Mega Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 362-428 (120.2 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs SpD Heatran (also with variant that outspeeds Kingambit too)
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Meganium-Mega Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 140+ SpD Filter Heatran-Mega: 195-231 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran-Mega Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega: 252-296 (83.7 - 98.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Of course if Heatran gets Earth Eater, all these calcs no longer matter and Heatran beats Meganium hard. If Heatran doesn't get Filter either.
I feel like Heatran will be too much with earth eater aand filter...
Hustle Garchomp under Gravityplease give it wind rider, it would actually make it really unique as it can easily setup a tail wind, and either fast pivot with uturn or threaten something with CC or BB. It would also mean it can seperate itself from Mega Skarm and Mega Hawlucha, as Mega Skarm is a setup sweeper and hawlucha... well depends on ability.
levitate will be fine
i initially thought Golurk would be hopeless and the best it could get is analytic, but i realized that Steam Engine is actually insanely good here, given Coalossal's history and being only 30 base speed
im really hoping for tinted lens because i think a bug/steel lokix would greatly improve the tier given the one billion good dark types running around, but i can also see regenerator happening
for the love of god stop suggesting psychic surge, its got 124 base speed and 143 special attack, i dont wanna have to deal with a mon who constantly threatens to setup psychic terrain, block my priority and then hit me with a FULL POWER expanding force. keep in mind that, as a spread move, in singles it doesnt suffer the -25% damage cut spread moves have, so thats 1.5 (unique boost it gets on psychic terrain) x1.3 (psychic terrain boost) x 1.5 (user is psychic type) if my calculations are correct thats a 234 base power move... all for just switching in. Give it something like Shield Dust or something defensive.
i thought this guy was hopeless until i saw Contrary and saw it have Leaf Storm and Overheat, so it might actually go kinda crazy. Speed Boost is also another option that would greatly help it. I also want to preface that this guy has Grassy Glide so if anything gets Grassy Surge, it might not be so bad as a diet rillaboom
surely Merciless or at least Toxic Debris right
yeah idk, maybe Beserk?
i got a feeling that it wont be happy to take a burn being so absurdly slow, so i think Thermal Exchange would actually go a long way here
(z) this is like 99% chance gonna be broken, could probably get away with Pressure or something, but i want this to be at least somewhat interesting, so give it Forewarn. Even something like Sniper would make it too obnoxious because it could randomly oneshot your bulkiest wall for no reason.
(z) this guy needs no offensive bossting abilities. i wanna make it clear that its totally viable to just run a physical set on this guy and only use the mega for the extra speed, Garchomp is NOT lacking in physical power here. And thats not even addressing the fact that it got Nasty Plot. Ive seen Levitate thrown around a lot but i dont think its that dire. However I do think its dire enough to warrent requiring some risk to use it, even if its only for the speed boost. Therefore, geniunely give it Hustle
(z) i can MAYBE see garchomp and absol staying if given the right ability, not Lucario here. But because i want to watch the world burn, give it Battle Bond so that we can ban it quicker.
please not earth eater, just give us Filter or keep Flash Fire and we'll be happy
idc enough about the raichu megas, i guess X can get Galvanize and Y can get mold breaker or infiltrator, idk dude. anything else not here is probably getting banned anyway
Some new abilities I think would be cool. Haven't played this metagame in a while so I may be rusty.
- I think Scrappy is the most likely ability but to better distinguish it from Flamigo, I think it should get Mold Breaker. This would give it a completely unblockable Defog ala Gweeizing and would probably give it a place on a wide variety of teams as a utility Pokemon.
- Levitate seems like the most fitting ability - its the standard for every fake flying Dragon. There are only a handful that don't have it, like Flapple, Naganadel, and Eternatus - but Garchomp traits don't really match these other Pokemon (not Berry focused like Flapple or a Legendary). Hustle or Speed boost could work.
- I am a bit stumped. This Pokemon is food-based & similar to Pokemon with "multiple" heads like Exeggutor. Yet it can't rely on either group as inspiration for an ability. Its pokedex entry mentions it "firing projectiles" which is a key portion of its boss battle as well. It also notable got Dark Pulse as a new move it can learn. Therefore, I think Mega Launcher is the most fitting ability on it.
- With Magearna becoming an Assassin Robot, I feel its ability needs to change since it only thinks of battle. Battle Armor wouldn't work since Magearna doesn't gain any new Armor. I think any of Trace, Competitive, or Adapability could be argued to be fitting on it.
:Crabominable: - Tough Claws would be the most fitting given that its claws are now made of Ice. Would be a decent upgrade over Iron Fist and would synergize well with its Mach Punch. Would also make it a very potent breaker under Trick Room ala Iron Hands / Ursaluna.
- Honestly, I feel this is a candidate for a new abilities given the mechanics of its Mega Rouge battle, specifically an ability that sets up either Wonder Room, Trick Room, or Gravity. Since we aren't making custom abilities though, I think Psychic Surge would be the most fitting ability for it since its using its mental powers to affect the battlefield.
- Its a giant eyeball. I think No Guard would be the most fitting ability for it, letting it accurately hit its Hypnosis / Dark Void, but also leaving it exposed to the enemies attacks, as it is a big target.
- This one is hard. Its defining feature is its big gaping mouth, but most of the consuming abilities are related to holding Berries. A Fire-type version of Belibolt's Electromorphosis would actually be perfect on this Pokemon, but alas. Therefore, I think just keeping Flash Fire is the best choice.
- Keep Levitate. Steel-typing + Levitate + Recovery move is a no-nonsense combination of good traits that will let this Pokemon stand out.
- Dex entry mentions it finishes off opponents with its hidden arms ala General Grievious. Sadly, I'm not too sure of which abilities best reflect the use of these underhanded tactics - I'd imagine its something that Dark-types would have. I'm going to say that Intimidate is likely a safe bet since that's an ability typically associated with Dark-types like Incineroar and Mightyena. Emergency Exit or Battle Armor are also fine for balancing purposes.
- I think Scrappy is the most likely ability but to better distinguish it from Flamigo, I think it should get Mold Breaker. This would give it a completely unblockable Defog ala Gweeizing and would probably give it a place on a wide variety of teams as a utility Pokemon. - Levitate seems like the most fitting ability - its the standard for every fake flying Dragon. There are only a handful that don't have it, like Flapple, Naganadel, and Eternatus - but Garchomp traits don't really match these other Pokemon (not Berry focused like Flapple or a Legendary). Hustle or Speed boost could work. - I am a bit stumped. This Pokemon is food-based & similar to Pokemon with "multiple" heads like Exeggutor. Yet it can't rely on either group as inspiration for an ability. Its pokedex entry mentions it "firing projectiles" which is a key portion of its boss battle as well. It also notable got Dark Pulse as a new move it can learn. Therefore, I think Mega Launcher is the most fitting ability on it. - With Magearna becoming an Assassin Robot, I feel its ability needs to change since it only thinks of battle. Battle Armor wouldn't work since Magearna doesn't gain any new Armor. I think any of Trace, Competitive, or Adapability could be argued to be fitting on it.:Crabominable: - Tough Claws would be the most fitting given that its claws are now made of Ice. Would be a decent upgrade over Iron Fist and would synergize well with its Mach Punch. Would also make it a very potent breaker under Trick Room ala Iron Hands / Ursaluna.
- Honestly, I feel this is a candidate for a new abilities given the mechanics of its Mega Rouge battle, specifically an ability that sets up either Wonder Room, Trick Room, or Gravity. Since we aren't making custom abilities though, I think Psychic Surge would be the most fitting ability for it since its using its mental powers to affect the battlefield. - Its a giant eyeball. I think No Guard would be the most fitting ability for it, letting it accurately hit its Hypnosis / Dark Void, but also leaving it exposed to the enemies attacks, as it is a big target. - This one is hard. Its defining feature is its big gaping mouth, but most of the consuming abilities are related to holding Berries. A Fire-type version of Belibolt's Electromorphosis would actually be perfect on this Pokemon, but alas. Therefore, I think just keeping Flash Fire is the best choice. - Keep Levitate. Steel-typing + Levitate + Recovery move is a no-nonsense combination of good traits that will let this Pokemon stand out. - Dex entry mentions it finishes off opponents with its hidden arms ala General Grievious. Sadly, I'm not too sure of which abilities best reflect the use of these underhanded tactics - I'd imagine its something that Dark-types would have. I'm going to say that Intimidate is likely a safe bet since that's an ability typically associated with Dark-types like Incineroar and Mightyena. Emergency Exit or Battle Armor are also fine for balancing purposes.
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Dark Void in ZA was changed to a 60 BP attacking move. Whether that carries over to Champions is yet to be seen.
With that said, it should be Compound Eyes instead. Mega Darkrai definitely got lackluster stats considering how much they lowered its speed just to put all those stats into Atk. Compound Eyes would pretty much let Darkrai hit nearly all the time anyways and doesn't have the drawback helping your opponent too.
Oh and obviously Compound EYES.
Mega Darkrai’s stats are fine. It simply has its role changed from its base form. This is hardly new for a Mega to shift it up. It’s now a bulky wallbreaker that has strong defensive utility (ghost and dark check) that can spread status like wisp and twave, and even better, make use of its powerful knock off and sucker punches for extra depth to its game. I’m pretty sure Compound Eyes refers to insect qualities so it wouldn’t real fit Darkrai.
Also the updates appear to be live on showdown and the new stuff is there?
Hi DLC is out, quick post with the new mega abilities -- NOTE THAT THESE ARE DAY 0 ABILITIES AND ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. BE NICE OR I WILL THREADBAN YOU
also aim has joined council
raichu x - levitate
raichu y - transistor
absol z - technician
chimecho - levitate
staraptor - tough claws
garchomp z - neuroforce
lucario z - mind's eye
heatran - earth eater
darkrai - dark aura
golurk - adaptability
meowstic - psychic surge
crabominable - ice scales
golisopod - regenerator
magearna - soul-heart
zeraora - iron fist
scovillain - contrary
glimmora - toxic chain
tatsugiri - drizzle
baxcalibur - thermal exchange
Chesnaught - Bulletproof
Eelektross - Hadron Engine
Falinks - Dauntless Shield
Floette - Regenerator
Hawlucha - Stamina
Malamar - Contrary
Victreebel - Toxic Debris
also aim has joined council
raichu x - levitate
raichu y - transistor
absol z - technician
chimecho - levitate
staraptor - tough claws
garchomp z - neuroforce
lucario z - mind's eye
heatran - earth eater
darkrai - dark aura
golurk - adaptability
meowstic - psychic surge
crabominable - ice scales
golisopod - regenerator
magearna - soul-heart
zeraora - iron fist
scovillain - contrary
glimmora - toxic chain
tatsugiri - drizzle
baxcalibur - thermal exchange
Chesnaught - Bulletproof
Eelektross - Hadron Engine
Falinks - Dauntless Shield
Floette - Regenerator
Hawlucha - Stamina
Malamar - Contrary
Victreebel - Toxic Debris
Some of these seem....pretty insane. Transistor Raichu y sounds busted, in a bit skeptical of absol z with 60 BP shadow sneak and any other crazy technician tech and minds eye Lucario is certainly going to be a lot....
Honestly I almost think Malamar should take simple over contrary. It's not going to be good either way but at least simple cosmic power/nasty plot stored power could be fun to mess with
I really love all of these ability but I still feel like Mega Raichu X is way better with Galvanize then Mega Raichu X with leviate
Going off of the Discord, I love how the most universal constant of every single metagame is Genesect somehow still being too much for OU.
You could up the powercreep to the most absurd, most extreme, levels, and yet somehow Genesect would still find a way to get itself banned from OU.
Anyways, this meta sounds ungodly cracked, and I'd be here for it if not for finals. Gonna hope that by the time I come back to this that the meta settles down to something... less extreme.
You could up the powercreep to the most absurd, most extreme, levels, and yet somehow Genesect would still find a way to get itself banned from OU.
Anyways, this meta sounds ungodly cracked, and I'd be here for it if not for finals. Gonna hope that by the time I come back to this that the meta settles down to something... less extreme.
Ice Scales Crabominable and Neuroforce Garchomp sound incredibly shiest even if they end up being hot ass.
Also, was Merciless ever considered for Mega Glimmora? It seems like if you could sneak in a layer or two of Toxic Debris, Glimmora could crit spam off of its 150 base SpA. That sounds fun even if it requires spin blocker and defog prevention support.
Also, was Merciless ever considered for Mega Glimmora? It seems like if you could sneak in a layer or two of Toxic Debris, Glimmora could crit spam off of its 150 base SpA. That sounds fun even if it requires spin blocker and defog prevention support.
No new mega pinsir teams yet but here's a trick room that got me back to 1500, featuring banded Melmetal and friends.
You may be wondering why there's a carbink and musharna but 1, I need hazards and 2, Healing Wish I REALLY need. Have fun yall
https://pokepast.es/e7b5e064fb98c999
You may be wondering why there's a carbink and musharna but 1, I need hazards and 2, Healing Wish I REALLY need. Have fun yall
https://pokepast.es/e7b5e064fb98c999
Uh, just noticed, but last respects isn't banned? Dunno if this is an oversight or not, but surely last respects is broken as shit.
Anyways, some of the megas abilities should prob be toned down in the future, like neuroforce on m-garchomp-z is maybe a bit overkill. But it was stated that these are just day 0 abilities so interested to see what they become :)
Anyways, some of the megas abilities should prob be toned down in the future, like neuroforce on m-garchomp-z is maybe a bit overkill. But it was stated that these are just day 0 abilities so interested to see what they become :)
my thoughts on the abilities
(X) Levitate : Only natural given that it levitates, but that will come at the cost of its viability. If you weren't already running Excadrill, when you'll live in a world of Glimmora/Gholdengo hazard stack you won't have a choice. And that means that every team under the sun just ignores your Levitate on their Ground. Unfortunate for a future NU mon. Galvanize would have helped it more.
(Y) Transistor : zzzzzz but also understandable. Electrics are hard to make interesting so it was that or another zzzzzz ability anyway
Technician : Fair pick, mon's prob gonna be bonkers so giving it a weak ability for it is def the way to go.
Levitate : Naturally, and the best pick.
Tough Claws : Ok
(Z) Neuroforce : Not sure what's so Neuroforce about Garchomp lol but fair pick nonetheless, it's not as if you were gonna tank super effective hits from that thing at +2 anyway so it's a good effort to balance it out.
(Z) Mind's Eye : ok so I'm confused since Garchomp and Absol, 2 strong contenders for best Megas, got next to useless abilities, and then Lucario gets the privilege to click literally free Aura Spheres? No Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse needed? Aegislash is not gonna be happy to hear about that one. That sounds insanely strong but hey, again, it would have gotten banned even without an ability so whatever.
Earth Eater : This is where I would say that Grounds are fucking useless now but the only Ground that matters is Excadrill, again, especially in a world of Glimmora/Gholdengo, so it might actually just not matter. Absolutely insane ability nonetheless tho, turning off 90% of attackers relying on Earthquake to actually do something. Add to this the increased bulk and getting rid of this monstrosity is going to be tough. It's not too late to give it Flame Body instead and increase diversity though.
Dark Aura : What if it became darker yet darker
Adaptability : Main Mega pick for Trick Room now. There are no words to describe how astronomically hard this thing will hit.
Psychic Surge : Ok
Ice Scales : basedbasedbasedbased
Regenerator : boring pick imoimo ngl desu ne but also fair
Soul-Heart : sure, almost useless for it but didnt need anything anyway lol. EDIT - ok I just saw that thing's SpAtk nevermind Soul Heart is broken for it pls fix
Iron Fist : Prob one of the best Megas of the bunch at base value and also getting a good ability on top of that. We'll see how it goes but I predict it will be in-sane.
Contrary : Slow Frail Mixed Attacker
Toxic Chain : ok no one will use its Mega anyway since you already get so much value out of the base form and Power Herb is better anyway, but giving it Toxic Chain ain't helping. No idea what could save it from irrelevancy tho sooooo sure yea whatever
Drizzle : Ok
Thermal Exchange : Ok
Bulletproof : Ok
Hadron Engine : The only way to give it some flavor and I approve. Not like Levitate would have helped when Excadrill is the goat.
Dauntless Shield : ???? I mean, it does have a shield. Not sure what it accomplishes for it though. Slightly more resilience to priority IS nice I guess.
Regenerator : zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Stamina : basedbasedbasedbasedbasedbasedbasedbased
Contrary : rip bozo
Toxic Debris : imagine being gifted Toxic Debris at the same time Glimmora releases LOLOLOLOLOL point at the plant and laugh!
(X) Levitate : Only natural given that it levitates, but that will come at the cost of its viability. If you weren't already running Excadrill, when you'll live in a world of Glimmora/Gholdengo hazard stack you won't have a choice. And that means that every team under the sun just ignores your Levitate on their Ground. Unfortunate for a future NU mon. Galvanize would have helped it more. (Y) Transistor : zzzzzz but also understandable. Electrics are hard to make interesting so it was that or another zzzzzz ability anyway Technician : Fair pick, mon's prob gonna be bonkers so giving it a weak ability for it is def the way to go. Levitate : Naturally, and the best pick. Tough Claws : Ok (Z) Neuroforce : Not sure what's so Neuroforce about Garchomp lol but fair pick nonetheless, it's not as if you were gonna tank super effective hits from that thing at +2 anyway so it's a good effort to balance it out. (Z) Mind's Eye : ok so I'm confused since Garchomp and Absol, 2 strong contenders for best Megas, got next to useless abilities, and then Lucario gets the privilege to click literally free Aura Spheres? No Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse needed? Aegislash is not gonna be happy to hear about that one. That sounds insanely strong but hey, again, it would have gotten banned even without an ability so whatever. Earth Eater : This is where I would say that Grounds are fucking useless now but the only Ground that matters is Excadrill, again, especially in a world of Glimmora/Gholdengo, so it might actually just not matter. Absolutely insane ability nonetheless tho, turning off 90% of attackers relying on Earthquake to actually do something. Add to this the increased bulk and getting rid of this monstrosity is going to be tough. It's not too late to give it Flame Body instead and increase diversity though. Dark Aura : What if it became darker yet darker Adaptability : Main Mega pick for Trick Room now. There are no words to describe how astronomically hard this thing will hit. Psychic Surge : Ok Ice Scales : basedbasedbasedbased Regenerator : boring pick imoimo ngl desu ne but also fair Soul-Heart : Iron Fist : Prob one of the best Megas of the bunch at base value and also getting a good ability on top of that. We'll see how it goes but I predict it will be in-sane. Contrary : Slow Frail Mixed Attacker Toxic Chain : ok no one will use its Mega anyway since you already get so much value out of the base form and Power Herb is better anyway, but giving it Toxic Chain ain't helping. No idea what could save it from irrelevancy tho sooooo sure yea whatever Drizzle : Ok Thermal Exchange : Ok Bulletproof : Ok Hadron Engine : The only way to give it some flavor and I approve. Not like Levitate would have helped when Excadrill is the goat. Dauntless Shield : ???? I mean, it does have a shield. Not sure what it accomplishes for it though. Slightly more resilience to priority IS nice I guess. Regenerator : zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Stamina : basedbasedbasedbasedbasedbasedbasedbased Contrary : rip bozo Toxic Debris : imagine being gifted Toxic Debris at the same time Glimmora releases LOLOLOLOLOL point at the plant and laugh!
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...honestly i thought trying to play before any quickbans would be completely miserable but its not that bad honestly
my thoughts on the abilities
sure, almost useless for it but didnt need anything anyway lol.EDIT - ok I just saw that thing's SpAtk nevermind Soul Heart is broken for it pls fix
Nah. Mega Vic can be used on non offensive teams with a bulky set that punishes physical attackers with toxic spikes, and stays alive through strength sap. It’s actually really interesting. In concept anyways. Time will tell if it’s good enough in practice.
What is the ETA on quick bans
I have an idea for mega
Ability: Blazing Soul
Gives +1 priority to fire moves on full HP
Similar to Gale Wings, but for fire.
This will not be broken because it cannot hold HDB so any hazards will prevent this for activating.
The name is from Rapidash ability in radical red.
Ability: Blazing Soul
Gives +1 priority to fire moves on full HP
Similar to Gale Wings, but for fire.
This will not be broken because it cannot hold HDB so any hazards will prevent this for activating.
The name is from Rapidash ability in radical red.
Sooooo.... what are our thoughts on Genesect, Mega-Blaziken, and Mega Magearna?