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CAP 5 CAP 5 - Ability Discussion Thread
- Thread starter tennisace
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What options does Technician give? It means you use Ancient Power, which gets 135 BP with STAB factored in, in addition to a 10% chance of raising stats. That's not really new, that just sounds a little bit broken, because it also would get base 90 (Well, 88.5 if you want to keep max speed) Hidden Power, and presumably more low powered moves to play around with too. Technician would boost Grass Knot's power as long as it was in the 60 group or below. See where I'm going? The Pokemon that have it don't have the stats or the movepool we're giving this.
Why not? We could go two ways with this. One way is a decent ability and a useless ability, like my Pressure/Rock Head example. This would allow us more freedom with the movepool. On the flipside, we could give this an amazing ability, but then the movepool would be restricted. Choose wisely, I know what mine is.
Also, Mold Breaker still sounds really broken on something this fast that can hit every Pokemon for neutral with 3 moves: Rock Move, Earth Power, HP Ice. That's scary if you ask me. This means: Levitating Pokemon can no longer wall it, Pyroak can't outstall it etcetera. I personally believe that Mold Breaker is a broken ability, and should stay on the two Pokemon that currently get it. They only have it because their stats and stabs are sub-par.
Adaptibility sounds like an acceptable trait, then. It only makes Ancientpower's BP 120, not 135.
I still prefer Levitate, though.
I still prefer Levitate, though.
Electivire was FAMOUS for hitting things neutral and 13 types super effective omgwtf etc. And yet it's dropping in usage every month because it doesn't even matter half of the time. Swampert is getting hit by 100 BP attacks coming off of base 123 Attack, and it's laughing. Hell, Hippowdon is hit super effective by Ice Punch and it still lols.
In the case of this CAP, there are still plenty of pokemon that probably won't even give a shit if this can hit them for neutral. Unless we give it every single special move under the sun and boosting moves, there's still going to be plenty of things that just don't care. In fact I can't really think of that many Pokemon that are specifically destroyed by Mold Breaker attacks, other than Bronzong (who probably isn't even OHKOd by Earth Power). It may, very well, be a good ability choice, but broken is probably a massive stretch.
Adaptability is too much for a pokemon with a decent attacking type. I wouldn't mind seeing Adaptability on a Steel or Poison pokemon, because those types rarely get an SE hit. The current Adaptability pokemon is Pory-Z, and it can't hit ANYTHING for SE damage. Rock is a very nice attacking type since it is SE on lots of common stuff (Bug, Flying, Ice, Fire). Save Adaptability for the upcoming CAP Steel pokemon.
Hint, hint...
Hope, hope...
Not poll-jumping, but project-jumping...
Hint, hint...
Hope, hope...
Not poll-jumping, but project-jumping...
I fail to see why you would need Mold Breaker, since the only thing you gain coverage on is Bronzong /sarcasm. Mold Breaker is one of the most broken abilities in the game because of how much it affects. With it, Bronzong, Claydol and Rotom can't switch in easily. Scarfgar also has to make sure it has enough special attack to KO it in Sandstorm, which I doubt it will. It will then be KO'd by an Earth Power. So really, why do we need this? Imo, give it a decent ability like Pressure or Levitate, and give it a good movepool.
Agreeing completely, except for the project jump lol.
Also, what's wrong if bronzong can't wall it? You can't just say, "here's the typing and stats, here is what can wall it, you cannot change that." That would be like saying that Infernape shouldn't have grass knot because Swampert can't wall it then. I have no problem letting a pokemon hit a Wall with a not Stab Super Effective hit that could otherwise completely stop it.
This would also be the first special mold breaker user and give it much more usability. Single stab with horrible weaknesses (if a good stab type) isn't going to be broken by mold breaker.
This would also be the first special mold breaker user and give it much more usability. Single stab with horrible weaknesses (if a good stab type) isn't going to be broken by mold breaker.
Since when is single stab a horrible thing? Gengar essentially has single stab (sludge bomb isn't too useful) and its the most used pokemon now. It also doesn't have the stats this thing has, and has a pursuit weakness, this thing can't even be revenge killed by dugtrio (scarf not powerful enough I believe). Mold breaker would give it a ton more coverage if we allowed it to have earth power, but if we didn't...hmmm
Hidden Power ground is a 20 Power difference. But it also ties up one of his hidden powers. Also, I never said that single stab was bad, but look what it does for Electrivire: All Coverage, poor stab. Now look what it did for Garchomp. Besides, my point was that it not being countered by Bronzong is NOT necessarily a bad thing.
Did anyone noticed my list of suitable abilities for each drawing so far? I would think someone would have some feedback against/for it. And now....someone I want to get off my chest:
Twin Strike/2x Cut/Quick(See FF7 and FF6 for reference on the latter two)
User can attack twice in one round. This only implies to moves that damage opponents. [When using a damaging attack, the attack power is cut in half]
Strange ability I had in my head since CAP4. Someone said it would work on a sweeper better.
Twin Strike/2x Cut/Quick(See FF7 and FF6 for reference on the latter two)
User can attack twice in one round. This only implies to moves that damage opponents. [When using a damaging attack, the attack power is cut in half]
Strange ability I had in my head since CAP4. Someone said it would work on a sweeper better.
The thing I like about Adaptability is that it allows us to make special Rock STAB very useful without actually including a new move. I'm a minimalist as far as stuff like new moves goes, so there's a big part of me that would rather just stick an existing ability and move on it and call it a day.
I also like Limber a lot; it gives our Pokemon a better chance of switching in on Togekiss, though it's still far from a completely safe switch given Aura Sphere.
I also like Limber a lot; it gives our Pokemon a better chance of switching in on Togekiss, though it's still far from a completely safe switch given Aura Sphere.
Just want to say that Rock doesn't have bad coverage at all; in fact, it's statistically the type that deals the most damage of all if you don't take Pokemon usages into account.
And the fact that many Rock-weak Pokemon are not OU confirms exactly how good Rock is as an attacking type.
Also, about new moves: we'll need to set things straight. We'll first need to agree in a policy review thread whether or not we are allowed to create new moves in any CAP. If the majority don't want new moves, I won't even bother creating one.
And the fact that many Rock-weak Pokemon are not OU confirms exactly how good Rock is as an attacking type.
Also, about new moves: we'll need to set things straight. We'll first need to agree in a policy review thread whether or not we are allowed to create new moves in any CAP. If the majority don't want new moves, I won't even bother creating one.
If were really breaking the mold I say mold breaker or technian and no 2nd one cuz all the other CAP got 2
I'd be more likely to attribute that to Stealth Rock than the prevalence of Rock-type moves, since having 25%-50% of your health cut off every time you come in is a pretty good reason to not use a Pokemon :/
And one thing I want to point out:
break the mold said:
Stereotypes of its typing. Rock Head one of the most overused abilities for Rock-types that there is; Geodude Line, Onix, Rhyhorn line (minus rhyperior), Aerodactyl, Sudowoodo, Aggron, and Relicanth all have Rock Head already. Sturdy and Shell/Battle Armor are also pretty overused by Rock-types, though those are less of standout options anyways.
Woo hoo, my forte is back! Abilities. I like having abilities that let a Pokemon do its job easier, but doesn't make the Pokemon broken. (Persistent made Fidget's TR / Gravity duties easier and more meaningfull)
The Pokemon's stats are meant to be sweeping oriented. But we also gave it rather paper thin physical defenses (and Rock isn't the best when it comes to Special weaknesses either.). Because of this, I think we need to give it some kind of ability that makes its chances to switch in more likely to occur.
The best way to accomplish this is through immunities.
Levitate
Gives a nice Ground immunity to our Pokemon. A quick look at the OU list says that the following Pokemon use a Ground type move on a standard set.
Bronzong
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Electivire
Forretress
Heatran (Not EQ, but Earth Power)
Hippowdon
Mamoswine
Salamence
Swampert
Tyranitar
That's 11/44 Pokemon in OU that could potentially give our guy a free switch-in. That 25% doesn't seem too bad to me, and other than on that Ground immunity, our Rock sweeper doesn't want to come into these Physical threats, so it's not like he's going to ALWAYS get free switches. Think of it like Gengar, there's a risk involved with coming in on an immunity because of its paper defenses. But I think not giving it that chance relegates it to inferiority.
Another way to go would be through a status immunity. By far, Paralysis and Sleep are the most used status effects in the game. You can play around Sleep by activating sleep clause and letting someone other than your Rock sweeper get hit by sleep. However, Paralysis is much different. Another ability I think would be well suited to it is Limber.
With the Paralysis immunity it would give it another reason to switch in on Togekiss (not only is it immune to Twave, but it resists Body Slam and the paralysis chance is negated), as well it could switch in on other common Thunder Wave users like Jirach and Celebi.
We can always make a new move that allows it to take advantage of its Special Attack stat. But we can't make a new move that lets it get a few free switches now and again.
So those are the two abilities I'm advocating.
Also, a quick note. I feel like I shouldn't even have to say this, but giving it a "spot filler" ability is such a waste of potential it's not even funny.
The Pokemon's stats are meant to be sweeping oriented. But we also gave it rather paper thin physical defenses (and Rock isn't the best when it comes to Special weaknesses either.). Because of this, I think we need to give it some kind of ability that makes its chances to switch in more likely to occur.
The best way to accomplish this is through immunities.
Levitate
Gives a nice Ground immunity to our Pokemon. A quick look at the OU list says that the following Pokemon use a Ground type move on a standard set.
Bronzong
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Electivire
Forretress
Heatran (Not EQ, but Earth Power)
Hippowdon
Mamoswine
Salamence
Swampert
Tyranitar
That's 11/44 Pokemon in OU that could potentially give our guy a free switch-in. That 25% doesn't seem too bad to me, and other than on that Ground immunity, our Rock sweeper doesn't want to come into these Physical threats, so it's not like he's going to ALWAYS get free switches. Think of it like Gengar, there's a risk involved with coming in on an immunity because of its paper defenses. But I think not giving it that chance relegates it to inferiority.
Another way to go would be through a status immunity. By far, Paralysis and Sleep are the most used status effects in the game. You can play around Sleep by activating sleep clause and letting someone other than your Rock sweeper get hit by sleep. However, Paralysis is much different. Another ability I think would be well suited to it is Limber.
With the Paralysis immunity it would give it another reason to switch in on Togekiss (not only is it immune to Twave, but it resists Body Slam and the paralysis chance is negated), as well it could switch in on other common Thunder Wave users like Jirach and Celebi.
We can always make a new move that allows it to take advantage of its Special Attack stat. But we can't make a new move that lets it get a few free switches now and again.
So those are the two abilities I'm advocating.
Also, a quick note. I feel like I shouldn't even have to say this, but giving it a "spot filler" ability is such a waste of potential it's not even funny.
Mold Breaker is basically an ability that keeps certain defensive abilities from powering down your attacks. There are very few Pokemon in OU that are going to be counters without Mold Breaker and not counters with the ability. There are only 4 (unless you count the Rotom forms as individual Pokemon) Pokemon with Levitate that you should be seeing regularly, two of which are already frail and outsped. In fact, the only one of the group that would logically be absorbing hits from this thing on a regular basis is Bronzong.
Claydol is a UU Pokemon, it shouldn't be cared about. The only common Pokemon that Mold Breaker lets you benefit over are Bronzong, Gengar (not even much) and the Rotom forms. Gengar is killed by Infernape's Life Orb Flamethrower. I doubt it's going to survive the LO STAB of this Pokemon, and combinations of Pokemon and conditions is an entirely different issue. We can't assume Sandstorm is always going to be up.
I'm not going to downplay the usefulness of Mold Breaker. It's a neat ability. But I really don't think that it's going to be influential enough to send this Pokemon over the edge. We don't even know if it's going to get Earth Power in the first place.
As cool as that sounds, the boost rate with Serene Grace would only be 20%, which I doubt is really good enough to warrant its use, sadly. :(
I vote against Adaptability because IT WILL BE BROKEN... I rather have a new addition to the movepool. Plus, high speed + high special attack is just too broken for it to hold an ability such as Adaptability. Porygon-Z has medium speed, and adaptability cannot hit any Super Effectives since it's only affecting Normal moves, plus a Ghost type immunity.
Rock type is super effective against 4 types: Flying, Ice, Fire, Bug, and nothing is immune to it. Just using Power Gem for example: 140 Power without Super Effective, relatively good PP, on a Pokemon with 130 speed and 120 special attack. That's just TOO MUCH. Something like a ROCK type Aura Sphere (slightly lower power--80 power, special attack, can't miss). Such as...
Gravel Lance
Description: An attack that attack the enemy's area, cannot miss.
Phys./Spec.: Special
Type: Rock
Power: 80
Accuracy: --
Pros: This, without Adaptability, is definitely viable. It can't be haxed as it cannot miss, and a standard special rock type move with 20 less power than Adaptability Power Gem. Rockmon also gets a signature move which is pretty cool.
Rock type is super effective against 4 types: Flying, Ice, Fire, Bug, and nothing is immune to it. Just using Power Gem for example: 140 Power without Super Effective, relatively good PP, on a Pokemon with 130 speed and 120 special attack. That's just TOO MUCH. Something like a ROCK type Aura Sphere (slightly lower power--80 power, special attack, can't miss). Such as...
Gravel Lance
Description: An attack that attack the enemy's area, cannot miss.
Phys./Spec.: Special
Type: Rock
Power: 80
Accuracy: --
Pros: This, without Adaptability, is definitely viable. It can't be haxed as it cannot miss, and a standard special rock type move with 20 less power than Adaptability Power Gem. Rockmon also gets a signature move which is pretty cool.
In response to adaptability, there's two things;
A. Power Gem gets the same power as STAB EQ. Plenty of pokemon get that, so what?
B. PorygonZ (hopefully) has something else over this thing; Nasty Plot. Its also got a huge variety of attacking moves, along with some status stuff.
I've a suggestion for an ability (Technician, my favourite out of the already existing moves, is getting plenty of love).
Mysticism- Moves that have a different type to this pokemon get 1.3x power.
Is this broken?
I think Technician is a good ability for this. The reason? Look at what X-Act said:
Not a single proposed new move has been used ever. People on the CAP forum doesn't like new moves, as they consistently vote against them. Considering that this pokémon really needs something more powerful than Power Gem as its STAB move, there are very few options: new move, Adaptability, or Ancient Power+Technician. AP+Technician makes it a 90 base power move with a very nice but rare bonus, which is probably better than giving it Adaptability and risking Power Gem be present, thus having a 105 power move with no drawbacks.
Not a single proposed new move has been used ever. People on the CAP forum doesn't like new moves, as they consistently vote against them. Considering that this pokémon really needs something more powerful than Power Gem as its STAB move, there are very few options: new move, Adaptability, or Ancient Power+Technician. AP+Technician makes it a 90 base power move with a very nice but rare bonus, which is probably better than giving it Adaptability and risking Power Gem be present, thus having a 105 power move with no drawbacks.
I looked at this and thought that it'd be a great idea. The whole idea of this CAP is to Break The Mold, making it have Limber would allow it to continue Breaking The Mold with it's high speed.
Though, if I had to come up with a second option, I'd completely disagree with Levitate, and for one good reason; There are more pokemon with fighting type attacks that could devistate and abuse it's low defense. Perhapse we could think of an ability that weakens fighting type attacks 50%, just like Heatproof on Bronzong, except a different type.
Any pokemon with 90+ Base Attack, has a really good chance to OHKO it with Close Combat (sepecially since Shoddy averages all percents, instead of randomly selecting one), so granting it an immunity to that somehow would be steller. It's propably too late to be thinking about that though *coughghosttypecough*
I agree with Beej's arguments about Mold Breaker. The last two Pokemon we've created have been far from overpowered, and I really don't see how giving this thing Mold Breaker, (especially when it just fits so well with the theme, which I don't really think is an invalid reason for wanting it when it's a great ability besides,) would put it in the realm of Syclant and Revenankh.
Besides that, Technician may still be the best choice. I'm unconvinced that Serene Grace wouldn't be awesome, though. :3
Besides that, Technician may still be the best choice. I'm unconvinced that Serene Grace wouldn't be awesome, though. :3
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