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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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I doubt Shaymin can take a CB STAB Return from 100 base attack.
But yea, even in UU Tauros can be walled without major problems.
But yea, even in UU Tauros can be walled without major problems.
Once Steels and Ghosts are removed Swellow/Ursaring/Other Normal Types Facade almost 2HKO everything! Take out the counter and any "sweeper" is going through teams with OHKO/2HKO.
Anyway, Milotic can be quite annoying for teams with Toxic/Ice Beam/Surf/Recover -- but a Substitute/Dragon Dance/Waterfall/Return Feraligatr can easily Substitute in its face if you catch the right time to swap in. Generally you sub in their face as they try to put status on you, with a slight EV investment in HP you can make sure its Surf won't break the sub, and then you can proceed to guarentee yourself 2 dragon dances. Just something to try to set up on a Milotic (Lapras pulls it off as well, but with Stealth Rock weakness, weakness to priority fighting moves it isn't quite as effective).
Anyone tried any dual screening with some of the floating pixies thrown to UU? Taunt leads are common at the moment, but if you place them well mid game for someone to sweep it could be interesting. I'm going to play test some screeners and see how it plays out.
I'm sure CB Taurus would be able to sweep if it weren't for all the anti-sweepers and priority moves in the metagame. Meanwhile cb earthquake doesn't hurt steels as much as you want it too (regirock, registeel, steelix), meanwhile they can hurt you with stab attacks or cripple you with TW. I've battled a few tauroses, but none of them have been impressive so far. And your point about after all the steels, rocks, and ghosts are gone can cause tauros to sweep, that is in fact true, but the same could be said almost all other normal physical sweepers too (eg staraptor, swellow)
cm raikou is just too much for uu. that's the only particular pokemon i see that needs to go.
I've been using a dual screen Uxie to some success. He lacks a reliable form of recovery, but sets up for CM Raikou or if I know my opponent doesn't have Mismagius then Regigigas can come in easily. My set is SR, Screen, Reflect, U-turn. It's decent, but nothing great.
I would agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that my Chansey can break its Substitutes with Seismic Toss. It is very powerful though.
After playing a lot in this new UU metagame, and reach a good place in the top, with stall teams and sweeper teams I have some opinions:
- Raikou is quite strong, and if you don't guess correctly what set it's using, you have to sacrifice a member of your team. Although Steelix is a good one, there are a lot of Raikou's with super effective HPs to Steelix, I guess Fire or Fighting. Maybe the most dangerous one in UU.
- Shaymin is close to Raikou. With its bulk, Natural Cure + Rest, Seed Flare, Sub+Leech Seed, etc... it's a quite strong pokemon, and the only way to stop it is with a PP stall of its Seed Flare PPs, or with Toxic Spikes.
- Azumarill is a great member to me. A set with Waterfall, Focus Punch, Substitute and Encore is a great stall breaker. It can simply sweep a team when it's hidden behind a Substitute, and with such an amazing Attack...
- Spiritomb is a good check to a lot of things like Gallade, Medicham or Shaymin. It's strong, but we need it in UU to balance the metagame.
- Raikou is quite strong, and if you don't guess correctly what set it's using, you have to sacrifice a member of your team. Although Steelix is a good one, there are a lot of Raikou's with super effective HPs to Steelix, I guess Fire or Fighting. Maybe the most dangerous one in UU.
- Shaymin is close to Raikou. With its bulk, Natural Cure + Rest, Seed Flare, Sub+Leech Seed, etc... it's a quite strong pokemon, and the only way to stop it is with a PP stall of its Seed Flare PPs, or with Toxic Spikes.
- Azumarill is a great member to me. A set with Waterfall, Focus Punch, Substitute and Encore is a great stall breaker. It can simply sweep a team when it's hidden behind a Substitute, and with such an amazing Attack...
- Spiritomb is a good check to a lot of things like Gallade, Medicham or Shaymin. It's strong, but we need it in UU to balance the metagame.
That is just blatantly untrue, as Chansey can easily check whatever set it is running with safety, and beats any set that isn't using Rest. Registeel and Regice too to some extent. But ignoring them for the moment; what is wrong with the fact that nothing can counter every possible set? Isn't this the same situation with Salamence for example in OU? Is that Uber? Just because you have to found out the set it is running before you can counter it, does not mean it is automatically BL material. I know you didn't explicitly mention that in your post, I'm just mentioning this to remind people that it is not a valid argument when it comes to banning something.
It would be interesting to see what happens if Spiritomb becomes OU again if that is the case....
Oh shit... if that hapens, nUU is screwed
Scarf Tauros actually is a great anti lead in the metagame...
with Intimidate and Return beating Ambipom
Zen Headbutt or Stone Edge beat Crobat
Zen Headbutt beating Roserade
Stone Edge or Pursuit beating Froslass
Stone Edge beating Abomasnow
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/204 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
beats Timid Scarf Roserade and Slower, and has great attacking power that can be saved later for revenge killing.
EDIT: Three Hundredth Post!
with Intimidate and Return beating Ambipom
Zen Headbutt or Stone Edge beat Crobat
Zen Headbutt beating Roserade
Stone Edge or Pursuit beating Froslass
Stone Edge beating Abomasnow
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/204 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
beats Timid Scarf Roserade and Slower, and has great attacking power that can be saved later for revenge killing.
EDIT: Three Hundredth Post!
I leading with a choiced Tauros didnt turn out so great for me, although it was CB. They just typically switched to their Steel
And lmao at sig XD
And lmao at sig XD
Scarf Tauros actually is a great anti lead in the metagame...
with Intimidate and Return beating Ambipom
Zen Headbutt or Stone Edge beat Crobat
Zen Headbutt beating Roserade
Stone Edge or Pursuit beating Froslass
Stone Edge beating Abomasnow
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 52 HP/252 Atk/204 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
beats Timid Scarf Roserade and Slower, and has great attacking power that can be saved later for revenge killing.
Ever considered Iron Head over either Stone Edge or Zen Headbutt? I would, mainly for a reliable way to hit Mismagius but also for Froslass. A 30% chance to prevent leads from getting any Spikes up can be very useful for certain teams. Can also work against random stuff like lead Solrock for what it's worth. It kinda fits in with the anti-lead theme.
It's really tempting, and I'll definetly try it. It would be nice to have a reliable way to hit Froslass (Yes, I don't consider non-STAB STone Edge reliable!) and I'm fairly sure a STAB Return does more to Roserade anyway (does it?).
I use mine with a LO Magneton to "beat" Steels, so that might be the reason it worked well.
And I couldn't resist the "ii" you used in the sig. x)
I am REALLY REALLY upset with what I've been reading in this thread. Seems that everyone is looking to ban something. Which is ridiculous. Lets note the Pokemon who are common complaints... Milotic, Spiritomb, Raikou, and Abomasnow (Hail teams in general). Now I fail to see what makes these guys such a burdon to UU that there is discussion on banning them. One particular post was rather frustrating to read...
First off, Wynutt was already banned because by definition he was uber. I suppose that statement doesnt realy help solve anything. Secondly, why would you switch in choiced user on Tomb? Unless you know the set entirely you risk way to much but sending in choice user. Reasons being WW and Calm Mind. You stated that you dont use Steel types. Well, thats your choice. If your having Spiritomb problems and are unwilling to adapt your team to it, then I would think that it is your fault for losing, at leastm if that is the case. In regaurds to Hitmontop use a set like...
Hitmontop @ Lum Berry
252Hp 252SDef
Rapid Spin
Close Combat
Forsieght
Pursuit
Beats out all Ghost types for the most part and is relatively a good spinner. Nidoqueen is a pain though. However, with this set I can switch into Spiritomb if need be take low enough dmg from his attack Forsieght and 2hko. Heck that proabably isnt even optimal evs. But he works just fine. Also, Miltank and Kangaskawn deal with him just fine as well.
People need to stop looking for what to ban. To be honest worst thing I've came up to was Arcanine. Extereme Speed and Flare Blitz make him a tough nut to crack.
First off, Wynutt was already banned because by definition he was uber. I suppose that statement doesnt realy help solve anything. Secondly, why would you switch in choiced user on Tomb? Unless you know the set entirely you risk way to much but sending in choice user. Reasons being WW and Calm Mind. You stated that you dont use Steel types. Well, thats your choice. If your having Spiritomb problems and are unwilling to adapt your team to it, then I would think that it is your fault for losing, at leastm if that is the case. In regaurds to Hitmontop use a set like...
Hitmontop @ Lum Berry
252Hp 252SDef
Rapid Spin
Close Combat
Forsieght
Pursuit
Beats out all Ghost types for the most part and is relatively a good spinner. Nidoqueen is a pain though. However, with this set I can switch into Spiritomb if need be take low enough dmg from his attack Forsieght and 2hko. Heck that proabably isnt even optimal evs. But he works just fine. Also, Miltank and Kangaskawn deal with him just fine as well.
People need to stop looking for what to ban. To be honest worst thing I've came up to was Arcanine. Extereme Speed and Flare Blitz make him a tough nut to crack.
This. Even U-Turn will hurt bad.
On another note, I have yet to see a spiritomb survive an LO Blaziken Overheat.
252 satk LO Overheat does 82% minimum to 252/6 Spiritomb, which has a good chance to OHKO with SR. 252 satk Specs Overheat does even more, with a guaranteed OHKO on 252/6 Spiritomb after SR and a ~60% chance of OHKO without. Even max/max Spiritomb is guaranteed 2HKO'd by Specs Overheat. Oh, and needless to say, Spiritomb needs +1 sdef to hope to survive a Blaze Overheat. Even with max/max, LO Overheat is a guaranteed OHKO with SR (and specs guarantees the OHKO without it).
In other words, the key to killing Spiritomb is just to power through it. 50/108/108 isn't the greatest set of defenses, even with the whole "Spiritomb has no weak" thing.
Also, glad to see I'm not the only one to have trouble with Arcanine. The only upside is that SR and Flare Blitz's recoil are often its undoing. Regirock seems to nicely wall it, though, and Slowbro should handle some variants.
I haven't really had any major 'problem pokemon' except Stallrein on hail teams, though I will say, my friend brought back one of his old UU teams to take on my new UU team. It was the only battle against my new UU team that he comfortably won. This suggests that maybe the mindset of old UU shouldn't be completely abandoned.
As for Stallrein, I have put a Sunny Day user on my team to put an end to Abomasnow's permanent hail once he's down. This should limit his ability to stall. I haven't tried it yet because I haven't seen any hail teams since I stuck my Sunny Day user on my team.
Raikou is a very powerful threat though and, even though I love using him, I do want to see him out of UU so that other special sweepers aren't left in his shadow forever.
As for Stallrein, I have put a Sunny Day user on my team to put an end to Abomasnow's permanent hail once he's down. This should limit his ability to stall. I haven't tried it yet because I haven't seen any hail teams since I stuck my Sunny Day user on my team.
Raikou is a very powerful threat though and, even though I love using him, I do want to see him out of UU so that other special sweepers aren't left in his shadow forever.
I think I've determined what my issue with Spiritomb was; it must be beaten with a powerful sweeper/wallbreaker. Resttalk/CM Spiritomb will simply outstall and eventually sweep a stall team. In terms of sweepers, Nasty Plot Crobat has been brought up once before in this thread, but I thought I'd mention it again here as being awesome. It does a lot of damage before being taken down, and the 4x resist to grass is always handy later in the match.
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