No Dusknoir or Omastar I'm afraid. Also in that theoretical team, Hypno seems essential if only for the Wish support to a team lacking recovery. That and another Spiker to replace Omastar, a Toxic Spikes absorber etc. Yeah, good luck with the limited options available for pure stall in NU, though I won't go as far as saying that it's impossible.
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NU Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Stagnant
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Floatzel is really good in NU, the Bulk Up > Baton Pass set is easily pulled off with it's great speed, and having access to Priority lets it hit faster Scafers and Rock Polish pokemon before they can sweep. Brick Break let's it beat Regice with SR down too.
Toxic Spikes is reallllllly useful too, a lead Venomoth with Sash has been a great way to start off matches for me. Sleep something, and then get Spiking.
Need to play more though, no one on NU unrated at the moment :(
Toxic Spikes is reallllllly useful too, a lead Venomoth with Sash has been a great way to start off matches for me. Sleep something, and then get Spiking.
Need to play more though, no one on NU unrated at the moment :(
Sorry, I meant the Unrated section.
Hypno, Qwilfish, Sandslash, Meganium, Dusclops, Luxray could do well. Qwilfish can lay both types of spikes and absorb toxic ones. Sandslash spins and SRs. Hypno wishes and sets up screens, Dusclops blocks spin and WoWs things, Meganium takes physical hits and Aromatherapies, and Luxray takes physical hits and phazes.
This could work, although having your spiker be Qwilfish isn't the best of situations. I'd give it a good try, but there's so few NU players. Still, would be a nice break from the hyperoffensive teams I've been using.
My brother has been having mild success with a UU Gravity team using ResTalk + Both Kinds of Spikes on Qwilfish, you could try that.
I am very surprised at the lack of Choice Scarf Medicham. It has good coverage with Hi Jump Kick / Psycho Cut / Ice Punch / Thunder Punch and has some awesome stats:
Adamant: 480 Atk / 389 Spe
Jolly: 438 Atk / 426 Spe
Those stats are without any set up. This thing is a complete beast and probably the best Revenge Killer in NU right now IMO.
Adamant: 480 Atk / 389 Spe
Jolly: 438 Atk / 426 Spe
Those stats are without any set up. This thing is a complete beast and probably the best Revenge Killer in NU right now IMO.
I have been using him after giving up on Dodrio. He's an absolute beast. Also, Manectric didn't play as well as I expected of him; He got mega walled by Regice even with a Petaya Flamethrower, and didn't perform too great. I swapped him for mixed Electabuzz, havent tested it yet.
As for people I have fought, the three most common guys I have seen are Linoone (2), Wailord (2), and Ryhdon (2). Linoone hasn't done much at all to me, Wailord is dealth with well enough using Quagsire, and Rydon just hasn't been able to take the hits I have dished out (and I use a mainly defensive team). I fought a hail team, and barely lost. Technically 3-0, but the two guys who were on the bench would die to my Steal Rocks. It ended up being Manectric vs Regice. Ugh.
But Hail didn't seem that tough. Granted, I dropped a toxic on Stallrein as well as one hitted Abomasnow using my old Dodrio, but I was expecting more. Glaceon is a huge threat though.
No Sand teams as of yet. I may make one.
As for people I have fought, the three most common guys I have seen are Linoone (2), Wailord (2), and Ryhdon (2). Linoone hasn't done much at all to me, Wailord is dealth with well enough using Quagsire, and Rydon just hasn't been able to take the hits I have dished out (and I use a mainly defensive team). I fought a hail team, and barely lost. Technically 3-0, but the two guys who were on the bench would die to my Steal Rocks. It ended up being Manectric vs Regice. Ugh.
But Hail didn't seem that tough. Granted, I dropped a toxic on Stallrein as well as one hitted Abomasnow using my old Dodrio, but I was expecting more. Glaceon is a huge threat though.
No Sand teams as of yet. I may make one.
I agree, also dont forget it can also learn trick. Its just a pity that hi jump kicks recoil does over 50% damage so whenever something uses protect, is a ghost type or if it just misses it can easily knock itself out. Leaving you with the much weaker brick break.
Although the second phase of UU is now underway, I'm still playing unrated NU on occasions as it is a very fun and interesting metagame. Here are a few things I've found:
Munchlax has brought me plenty of success with the Curse variant so far. Return for STAB and Seed Bomb for coverage works great, and Thick Fat allows it to set up on certain things that Lickilicky can't, such as CM Entei. Also the 5 base speed is handy for taking on Trick Room teams, as Seed Bomb can hit much of the Trick Room sweepers such as Clamperl, Marowak, Rhydon etc hard and goes first. Also Thick Fat and enormous special bulk allows it to sponge Eruptions from Camerupt easily. The prevalence of Medicham is a bit problematic, but it can't switch in on Return without taking massive damage, and that's usually what I do early game anyway, switching in to resisted moves and firing off attacks to scout. Pack 2-3 good Medicham switch-ins (Slowking, Gligar, Dusclops etc) and you're well covered. Magneton is also useful for trapkilling the Steels that can wall Munchlax.
I've also had much success with Skuntank, believe it or not. It can switch in to Ghosts and Psychics fairly easily, and the Taunt / Sucker Punch / Pursuit combo picks them off more often than not. Explosion is another thing it has over Drapion (the closest UU counterpart) which works well off its high attack, whilst Aftermath is very useful death fodder material in case you don't get a chance to explode. Works especially well as an emergency solution to End(Sub)Revvers and End(Sub)Flailers.
That's all for now.
Munchlax has brought me plenty of success with the Curse variant so far. Return for STAB and Seed Bomb for coverage works great, and Thick Fat allows it to set up on certain things that Lickilicky can't, such as CM Entei. Also the 5 base speed is handy for taking on Trick Room teams, as Seed Bomb can hit much of the Trick Room sweepers such as Clamperl, Marowak, Rhydon etc hard and goes first. Also Thick Fat and enormous special bulk allows it to sponge Eruptions from Camerupt easily. The prevalence of Medicham is a bit problematic, but it can't switch in on Return without taking massive damage, and that's usually what I do early game anyway, switching in to resisted moves and firing off attacks to scout. Pack 2-3 good Medicham switch-ins (Slowking, Gligar, Dusclops etc) and you're well covered. Magneton is also useful for trapkilling the Steels that can wall Munchlax.
I've also had much success with Skuntank, believe it or not. It can switch in to Ghosts and Psychics fairly easily, and the Taunt / Sucker Punch / Pursuit combo picks them off more often than not. Explosion is another thing it has over Drapion (the closest UU counterpart) which works well off its high attack, whilst Aftermath is very useful death fodder material in case you don't get a chance to explode. Works especially well as an emergency solution to End(Sub)Revvers and End(Sub)Flailers.
That's all for now.
Lol...Munchax. I know it's a serious threat, but the thought itself has a certain quality of hilarity to it that just won't go away. Seriously though, a baby Pokémon a top tier NU, matched up alongside the likes of Medicham, Dusclops, Floatzel, etc. The mind-boggling wonders like these are what make the lower tiers so much fun for me, and others, most likely.
I don't think Munchlax will be top-tier, but yes, a baby Pokemon being used with Pokemon such as Magneton, Tangrowth, Rhydon, Regice, etc. is quite a weird concept.
However, we need to ignore these in-game classifications of Pokemon. Not all legendaries are Uber, not all starters are OU, not all NFEs are bottom-tier, and so on. It's the stats that matter at the end of the day. If a Pokemon is labelled 'legendary' by Game Freak, it can still be NU (Regigigas, Articuno, etc.) because, let's face it, those guys don't know what they're talking about. XD
However, we need to ignore these in-game classifications of Pokemon. Not all legendaries are Uber, not all starters are OU, not all NFEs are bottom-tier, and so on. It's the stats that matter at the end of the day. If a Pokemon is labelled 'legendary' by Game Freak, it can still be NU (Regigigas, Articuno, etc.) because, let's face it, those guys don't know what they're talking about. XD
Why are people using munchlax in a tier that contains lickilicky?
Because that very same tier also contains the likes of Entei and Glaceon and a host of viable Trick Room options. I thought I explained this well enough in my last post, but apparently not.
Yeah, between Thick Fat and the extra HP Munchlax is more capable of taking special hits than Lickilicky.
@ Shuckle Man: This is true, however legendary pokemon aren't based off tier, it isn't like Gamefreak bases their "status" off our metagame, they just create pokemon who are rare, have special battle music, etc. That is how you classify legendary, so actually Gamefreak DOES know what they are talking about, considering our metagame came from them.
@ Shuckle Man: This is true, however legendary pokemon aren't based off tier, it isn't like Gamefreak bases their "status" off our metagame, they just create pokemon who are rare, have special battle music, etc. That is how you classify legendary, so actually Gamefreak DOES know what they are talking about, considering our metagame came from them.
I think you misunderstood me.
The Pokemon that are classed as 'legendary' are done so a long time before our tier lists are made.
However, some people still insist that all legendaries should be banned from competitive play, and are gobsmacked to see Entei, Articuno, and the others in the NU tier. This is wrong. People need to get out of the mind-set that Regice has to be better than Chansey, because Game Freak says that Chansey is an unevolved Pokemon and Regice is a strong, rare legendary. At the end of the day, Game Freak don't really know much about competitive battling. They try and make their legendaries powerful, but they fail sometimes (look at Regigigas).
This can also be applied to Munchlax. He's a 'baby' Pokemon, so he's considered weak, however, we remove its in-game status as a baby Pokemon and an NFE, and we see that he isn't quite that bad. However, there'll be people out there, who are looking for a Normal-type Pokemon for their NU team, but will not bother considering Munchlax because he is an NFE. People need to get out of this mind-set too.
Yeah, sorry, there was some misunderstanding. I completely agree, iirc there was a thread talking about a similar situation of UUs in OU.
@ Shuckleman:
Well that argument goes both ways, people also look at NFE's just because they think they are automatically better. I used to see Gabite and Pupatar in UU because people think "Garchomp and Tyranitar are badass!!! So therefore their lower evolutions must also be awesome!" which is way more untrue than "A Pokemon sucks because it is NFE". A Pokemon in NFE, on average, is not as good as a final form of any Pokemon, but that does not mean they shouldnt be considered.
On another note, here is my NU RMT: If you have played NU give it a look :)
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53683
Well that argument goes both ways, people also look at NFE's just because they think they are automatically better. I used to see Gabite and Pupatar in UU because people think "Garchomp and Tyranitar are badass!!! So therefore their lower evolutions must also be awesome!" which is way more untrue than "A Pokemon sucks because it is NFE". A Pokemon in NFE, on average, is not as good as a final form of any Pokemon, but that does not mean they shouldnt be considered.
On another note, here is my NU RMT: If you have played NU give it a look :)
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53683
Lol I find it actually funny that rampardos was put into NU as of the fact the he is my best sweeper on my OU shoddy team. I basically send out Shedinja who spams protect and substitute until my berry(The one that raises attack one stage)activates. Once I get to that point I Baton Pass to Rampardos and he kills an entire team.
Um no. If shedninja uses sub it will either fail or it will die.
Has anyone else used cb hitmonchan? He is really good, bring him in on something he scares out, and focus punch the switch in for massive damage. Next time he's in, the opponet will not switch, expecting focus punch, so you can revenge kill with mach punch. He also gets great coverage with ice/thunder punch, or can run fire punch. He basically insures my team doesn't get swept by anything weak to fighting, like rhydon or linoone, and can tie up a lot of loose ends.
Except that Hitmonchan can't switch in on Belly Drum, because Linoone's +6 Extremespeed will outspeed Mach Punch after the Salac boost and OHKOs.
I myself use CBChan, but with a different set. I keep Mach Punch for its obvious use in revenge killing, and Ice Punch helps against the likes of Leafeon and Tangrowth. Close Combat hits hard, though not as hard as Focus Punch but without need for prediction. The last move is currently Pursuit, but I've never really used it and in theory it could be replaced by Thunder/Fire punch, though I haven't encountered enough Pokemon that would make a change from Pursuit to another punch useful.
I'm rather surprised at Bibarel's usefulness as a suicide lead, with Waterfall/Taunt/SR/TWave. The last move in particular is very useful, since nothing really likes getting paralyzed. I've never actually tried Super Fang, since I've never really needed my Bibarel to halve some wall's health. He usually just tries to get SR up, prevent the opponent from setting up, and paralyzing anything he can until he dies. It can't deal with every possible lead (i.e. Fake Out users), but it can deal with a lot of things.
Well Linoone is faster than Hitmonchan, so unless you are running Scarf(which your not) you won't outspeed him anyways.
Bibarel is awesome in this environment. Unfortunately, shit like Tangrowth and Leafeon completely stop his Curse set, but as Fangren has stated, it is surprisingly good at the lead position. I run the same set with Super Fang > Thunder Wave, being able to take Tangrowth down to 50% health when it switches in is awesome.
Bibarel is awesome in this environment. Unfortunately, shit like Tangrowth and Leafeon completely stop his Curse set, but as Fangren has stated, it is surprisingly good at the lead position. I run the same set with Super Fang > Thunder Wave, being able to take Tangrowth down to 50% health when it switches in is awesome.
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