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Magik0722 said:
yes i get that but where do the 80 speed EVs come in? under both options those 80 speed evs made no difference

If he's facing a trick room team he would imprison it, however since trick room has negative priority imprison will go first
if he is not facing a trick room team he will trick room, however because trick room has negative priority trick room would go last anyway, and now under trick room he is faster so that also has an offchance to be faster under trick room then something else
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Pherhaps is to avoid taunt... i know that 80 ev's are a lot, but i think that he believes that is better to be safe
 
zerowing said:
I designed batpig's team, and I don't know if he is posting a story or not, so here is the team in it's full glory:

Smeargle (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Dark Void
- Detect
- Fake Out
- Transform

Dusknoir (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 80 Spd / 60 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Imprison
- Protect
- Shadow Punch
- Trick Room

Lapras (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Machamp (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Dynamicpunch
- Protect
- Rock Slide

I designed it as a sort of dual mode team as evidenced by Dusknoir's moveset, if I'm playing vs another TR team I use Imprison, if not I go to Trick Room mode. From there it really depends on the opposing Pokemon, but often times I switch Machamp in and Smeargle then Transforms into it and both of them begin to pound away with Dynamicpunch and Rock Slide. Lapras was another Pokemon Smeargle enjoys Transforming into, with both using Surf and gaining HP every turn, and Perish Song is a tremendous life saver as it shortens the time in which the opponent can win, reducing the game to 3 turns if they only have 2 Pokemon left (thats not the only time it can be used though). As part of the dual mode every Pokemon on the team has 76 Speed so it can operate effectively depending on the mode being used, so those of you saying its TR or it is Anti-TR are both wrong, it is TR AND Anti-TR.
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I'm upset that I didn't take credit for the Imprison+TR idea earlier when I posted it on SkarmBliss.

I had a similar team thought out, with nearly the same Dusknoir, Explosion instead of Transform on Smeargle, and Metagross and Heatran as opposed to Machamp and Lapras.

Yet, I believe this idea of utilizing Transform is absolute genius. Great job zerowing! And congratulations batpig!
 
Just posting to say that, although I haven't done anything in forever, I'm most likely going to be participating in the Nashville, TN tournament.

I've got a lot of catching up to do...
 
flash0mc said:
Pherhaps is to avoid taunt... i know that 80 ev's are a lot, but i think that he believes that is better to be safe
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what taunters exactly are you trying to avoid with 80 speed EVs? thats only 10 extra speed points at level 50 and remember dusknoir is only 45 base speed
commong taunters are gyarados azelf and heatran, which those points do not even come close to being faster, also those speed EVs wont prevent trick room from being tautned since TR has negative priority, so really you are trying to get imprison up i believe but with fake out smeargle you should be able to just fake out the taunter
 
Magik0722 said:
what taunters exactly are you trying to avoid with 80 speed EVs? thats only 10 extra speed points at level 50 and remember dusknoir is only 45 base speed
commong taunters are gyarados azelf and heatran, which those points do not even come close to being faster, also those speed EVs wont prevent trick room from being tautned since TR has negative priority, so really you are trying to get imprison up i believe but with fake out smeargle you should be able to just fake out the taunter
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Somewhat OT, but about your team over at SkarmBliss: Focus Sash protects against all hits of a multi-attack move like Double Hit. So Double Hit Kangaskhan won't help against those L1 Smeargles.

I don't think zerowing was trying to outspeed any particular Taunters; he just wanted all his Pokemon to have the same speed.
 
zerowing said:
team

As part of the dual mode every Pokemon on the team has 76 Speed so it can operate effectively depending on the mode being used, so those of you saying its TR or it is Anti-TR are both wrong, it is TR AND Anti-TR.
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well, they don´t actually have 76 speed, only machamp does

Dusknoir = 75 speed
Smeargle = 85 speed
Machamp = 76 speed
Lapras = 80 speed

... unless smeargle´s speed IV is 20-21, dusknoir has 84 speed EVs and lapras´ speed IV is 22-23

well, I don´t see a good reason to have the same speed on your teammates as well, what if you want to double target something, just to make sure you finish it off and want your second attacker to use a finishing move that simultaneously hits the second target the hardest (in case attacker 1 does KO)?

example: dynamicpunch may or may not KO metagross...machamp targets metagross but you want to make sure meta is out and you let lapras target it with ice beam (let´s say the second pokémon your foe has out is garchomp)

- if your machamp was faster than lapras you´d DP and ice beam metagross (again, in case you really need metagross to faint) which may faint to DP or survive)
- with the same speed lapras could waste the ice beam going first and machamp finished meta, but if champ went first and DP KOed lapras would´ve hit chomp hard
- you´d probably have to decide on a different approach with a speed tie

well maybe not the ideal example but I hope you understand what I mean, speed tie on your own pokémon can poentially make you "piss your own pants" as you don´t know the order of attacks at all (oponent´s speed stat is sometimes hard to guess)...
 
Magik0722 said:
what taunters exactly are you trying to avoid with 80 speed EVs? thats only 10 extra speed points at level 50 and remember dusknoir is only 45 base speed
commong taunters are gyarados azelf and heatran, which those points do not even come close to being faster, also those speed EVs wont prevent trick room from being tautned since TR has negative priority, so really you are trying to get imprison up i believe but with fake out smeargle you should be able to just fake out the taunter
Click to expand...

Dusknoir has access to taunt too.. Pherhaps less speed ev's may work, but it seems that he doesn't take that risk, or pherhaps is to outspeed a determinate bulky pokemon used in trick room teams, such as Metagross

I repeat you, i don't know exactly why, ask him directly :/
 
Peterko said:
Stuff
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Yep, I completely understand where you are coming from, and there are times where I do wish I a set order to the speed, and I was going to change it very last minute after a bit of late testing where often times I wish I could Transform into Lapras and get the HP boost it would provide with Surf. However, situations where I wish I knew the order of my attacks came up very rarely as most often times Smeargle would be Transformed into Machamp and they would have tied speed regardless if I had planned it or not. And regarding your example, I often times play with risk and in that situation I would Ice Beam Garchomp and Dynamicpunch Metagross regardless of speed, I'd much rather kill Chomp and risk a 50% chance of Gross hitting itself. It's just these situations rarely came up enough for me to do anything beyond considering it, if the team works out like I designed it (which is obviously not always the case) my teams speed ties don't really matter.

And Magik, you're just straining yourself trying to come up with a reason for the speed, I wanted my Dusknoir to at least outspeed the opposing TR Pokemon should I need to Imprison and secondly I am able to Imprison other Imprison teams should they have the same thinking as you. The speed also satisfies my unhealthy need to have organization, symmetry, and uniform trends.
 
oic its to imprison other imprisoners, but 80 seems kinda arbitrarily picked surely you can cut a significant amount of those and palce them somewhere else
 
It's a pun to be misspelled like the user Steelicks' username.

I got a question, do you have to bring the team information sheet, or can you fill it out on arrival? I might change some things last minute.
 
They have many blank copies of the team info sheet there... the staff just checks it for completeness (not accuracy or anything) when you register and you hold onto it; I suppose the officials will collect them when you're selected to compete.
 
hey!

Cloggerdude said:
Just posting to say that, although I haven't done anything in forever, I'm most likely going to be participating in the Nashville, TN tournament.

I've got a lot of catching up to do...
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Yeah, I'm in exactly the same boat as you. And I'll be at Nashville to. I played pokemon whn I was like 13 and then played TCG some but stopped at like 16 because there were no people who played either in the small town I grew up in. Then when I was like 22 my li'l cousin Jessi gave me a copy of Blue Version and it just snowballed from there...Pretty much the only reason I'm playing it hardcore again is because of the VGC.
 
I'm in quite a rut. I cannot seem to decide which team I will be using. I want to go with the TR + Imprison strategy, as it has appealed to me since I conceived it (unknowing that it had already been conceived) and has been proven to work well.

Now I don't want to copy zerowing/batpig's team, but that Transform strategy just seems to awesome to pass up! Now who should I put as my remaining two after Noir and Smeargle?
 
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