Community Create-A-Team #2: Aggron (OU)

[ultimifier]

CB Aggron is to bring it as soon as you can. RP Aggron is a late game sweeper.
Metagross outclasses Aggron as a sweeper? Not quite. Aggron can take some pokes Meta can't, and Meta can take pokes Aggron can't.

For example, Metagross is walled by Rotom, Suicune and Skarmory. Aggron is walled by Swampert, Hippowdon and most Torterra.

Really, there's always a place on a team for many pokes. Aggron is no different. It depends of your team.

wait! aggron isnt walled by suicune? news to me. too lazy to do a damage calc, but im 99.9% sure suicune survives and then OHKOs aggron.

lets give another reason why metagross is superior in sweeping than aggron.
BULK!!!

when aggrons attack misses (and it will quite often) you are pretty much dead. horrible weaknesses and less physical and special bulk than metagross kinda hurt it. when metagross misses, he can pretty much survive anything thrown at him

 

[Neonian]

wait! aggron isnt walled by suicune? news to me. too lazy to do a damage calc, but im 99.9% sure suicune survives and then OHKOs aggron.

lets give another reason why metagross is superior in sweeping than aggron.
BULK!!!

when aggrons attack misses (and it will quite often) you are pretty much dead. horrible weaknesses and less physical and special bulk than metagross kinda hurt it. when metagross misses, he can pretty much survive anything thrown at him

if aggron misses it just switches out. Why don't people realise this?

 

[Justinawe]

if aggron misses it just switches out. Why don't people realise this?

I believe he was referring to the fact that if the RP sweeper misses, it is pretty much dead by the pokemon it was trying to ko.

 

[pkmn1000]

I believe he was referring to the fact that if the RP sweeper misses, it is pretty much dead by the pokemon it was trying to ko.

WHat pokemon would stay in and risk a head smash hitting? It would only happen if said poke had the bulk to take a head smash head on and not be afraid of a CH ohko.

 

[Twin_Scimitar]

WHat pokemon would stay in and risk a head smash hitting? It would only happen if said poke had the bulk to take a head smash head on and not be afraid of a CH ohko.

You never stay in against something if it could kill you by critting?
O_o

In any case, like many people I voted for the RP set and now regret it. I wish to change my vote to the Choice band set. The RP set is really shiny, but it just isn't as good as Metagross, and the CB set actually has something unique and powerful to offer. Let's do a re-vote or something of that nature before we waste our time making an okay team, let's make a great one instead.

 

[Stylish Interval]

WHat pokemon would stay in and risk a head smash hitting? It would only happen if said poke had the bulk to take a head smash head on and not be afraid of a CH ohko.

Generally when a Pokemon is sweeping, the opponent switches in the Pokemon with the best chance at KOing it first, before wasting the other Pokemon. If a Pokemon you have is sweeping, that generally means the opponent is going to lose and you're going to crush their team to pieces.

If they had a Pokemon who could take the hit you wouldn't be sweeping them, and they would then be stopping your sweep.

To recap: Your question, "What Pokemon would stay in and risk a head smash hitting," is asking why you would leave a Pokemon in and hope for the Head Smash to miss. My answer, quite obvious answer, was that they would be sending in the Pokemon with the greatest chance of stopping your sweep before wasting their other Pokemon.

 

[Maxim]

Side by Side Comparison

Hmm, let's compare the two concepts.

The Rock Polish Set:
Pros:

• Reaches 398 Speed with a single boost, fast enough to even outrun Weavile, or anything else without a scarf or boost themselves.
• Has a decent amount of power from Life Orb.
• Can make an excellent late game sweeper similar to Empoleon with Liechi Berry.

Cons:

• Has to get a boost to work well, meaning something could set up or switch in for free.
• Is apparently outclassed by Metagross.
• Has major trouble with physical walls, for example:

Aggron Aqua Tail with Life Orb vs. Standard Hippowdon: 45.24% - 53.1%

Aggron Head Smash with Life Orb vs. Standard Skarmory: 55.69%-65.57%, Roost can PP Stall [assuming your opponent predicts perfectly when you EQ.

I believe that's sufficient, whereas:

Hippowdon Earthquake vs. Aggron min HP/Def: 102.49%-121%, instant OHKO.

In brief, the Rock Polish set is good for taking out opposing sweepers, but fails epically against walls.

The Choice Band Set:
Pros:

• A simply massive attack stat of 525, with a 150 STAB boosted move on top.
• Easier to switch in because of bulk [I'm assuming 252 HP Evs with this set, as speed is rather redundant with 50 base speed, though some should be used to outrun walls].
• The experts reccomend it.
• Tears apart the counters to the Rock Polish set, as shown here:

Aggron Aqua Tail vs. Standard Hippowdon: 47.14%-55.71%, at this rate, Hippowdon will need to be a need-to-destroy target, but still a clean 2HKO with SR.

Aggron Head Smash vs. Standard Skarmory: 64.07%-75.75%

Okay, maybe it doesn't tear them apart, but even so, these pokes will have a hard time switching in against Aggron, if they aren't dead by then.

Cons:

• Unable to switch attacks [although in most cases Head Smash is sufficient].
• The speed is very low indeed.
• Prone to revenge killing, particually from Magnezone.
• Prone to being killed by heavy hitters with EQ, such as Salamence.

Example:
Traditional Salamence Life Orb EQ vs. Max HP/min Def Aggron: 101.16%-119.77%, not good.

Choice Scarf Magnezone Tbolt vs. Max HP/min Sp.def Aggron with Sandstorm: 61.21% - 72.24%, If Aggron took previous damage, he's done for.

In brief, the Choice Band set is good against just about anything, but powerful sweepers destroy it.

Conclusion:
So basically, the Rock Polish set is better against sweepers, but the Choice Band set is good against anything that doesn't have EQ or CC to stop it.

The Verdict:
My opinion still resides with the Choice Band set, but the decision is yours, after all, I can only surmise the facts as I haven't used Aggron yet [I hope that doesn't nullify my ideas.]

EDIT: Wow, there were a lot of posts when I made this.

EDIT2: Hmm, I'm wondering if my calcs were wrong, as Lee put in one of his posts some damage calcs that somewhat contradict my Magnezone ones.

EDIT3: Just put in the correct damage calcs.

 

[mudkip72]

After reading the arguements, I wish there was a change vote button or something, because now I'm convinced CB Aggron is the best way to go also, never thought about Metagross outclassing RP Aggron (although I do like how RP Aggron isn 't dead weight against Rotom).

You know though, both sets have their merits. Metagross definitely does not have the coverage or power Aggron does, so I'm not convinced it outclasses it, rather Metagross is just a safer option.
But anyway, yeah, I wish I could change my vote to CB now.

 

[M BLADE]

wait! aggron isnt walled by suicune? news to me. too lazy to do a damage calc, but im 99.9% sure suicune survives and then OHKOs aggron.

lets give another reason why metagross is superior in sweeping than aggron.
BULK!!!

when aggrons attack misses (and it will quite often) you are pretty much dead. horrible weaknesses and less physical and special bulk than metagross kinda hurt it. when metagross misses, he can pretty much survive anything thrown at him

2 Head Smashes and Suicune's gone.
Metagross needs to explode to take Suicune out. So Suicune is better handled by Aggron, but both are bad matchups for Suicune.

 

[Hipmonlee]

This is what I get for Life Orb Aquatail on Hippowdon:
350 attack vs 314 defense, 90 power(*1.3 *2), 420 max HP: 45.24% - 53.1%

This is scarf magnezone in ss:
394 attack vs 156 defense, 95 power(*2/3 *1.5), 281 max HP: 61.21% - 72.24%

Have a nice day.

 

[Maxim]

This is what I get for Life Orb Aquatail on Hippowdon:
350 attack vs 314 defense, 90 power(*1.3 *2), 420 max HP: 45.24% - 53.1%

This is scarf magnezone in ss:
394 attack vs 156 defense, 95 power(*2/3 *1.5), 281 max HP: 61.21% - 72.24%

Have a nice day.

Hmm, whoops, I suppose I probably screwed up when inputting the functions into the calculator. Oh well.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

I'm suggesting a Choice Band Aggron is the only one that can be effective. Rock Polish Metagross has more survivability and lets face it. Metagross regardless of stats, is much more frighting than Aggron, and actually forces way more switches, due to typing and its ability to shrug off hits and its versatility. Aggron is too slow and has too many common weaknesses to not be Choice Banded. He should be a wall breaker and hit and run Pokemon. In OU he can't really switch in to anything aside from Choiced Scizors, Tyranitars and that's honestly it. Anything else but the Choice Band set is pretty much null through out the match.

 

[kd24]

Given that ineffective headsmash is stronger than neutral earthquake, I figure that 90% of the time you will just use that. Because of that, I wouldnt bother with setting up, I'd just CB it..

It still does 43% minimum to Lucario, and it can 3hko pert.. Sure you'll be slow, but its better to headsmash and switch than to rock polish and switch..

Have a nice day.

basically my feelings, cb is something that is just gonna get you the most use, head smashing around is so easy to do.

voted cb

 

[pkmn1000]

Metagross doesnt have anywhere near a good movepool consisting solely of 2 steel attacks explosion earthquake and elemental punches on cb/agility while aggron has all of the above bar explosion Hs and aqua tail and bb and much more.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Metagross doesnt have anywhere near a good movepool consisting solely of 2 steel attacks explosion earthquake and elemental punches on cb/agility while aggron has all of the above bar explosion Hs and aqua tail and bb and much more.

If you mean to tell me that Aggron has a better move pool than Metagross (which i highly doubt) then so be it. When it comes to a Rock Polish set Metagross is much more deadly, taking neutral or resisting all priority moves and the only advantage Aggron has over Metagross in the Rock Polish set is the ability to hit Rotom. Metagross can run Zen Headbutt if it wants to, so i wouldn't even give Aggron that advantage. Head Smash is a very tempting move, but hell Relicanth has much better STAB moves and has Rock Head, yet we aren't raving about him.

Oh Metagross does get Gravity thanks pkmn1000.

 

[pkmn1000]

If you mean to tell me that Aggron has a better move pool than Metagross (which i highly doubt) then so be it. When it comes to a Rock Polish set Metagross is much more deadly, taking neutral or resisting all priority moves and the only advantage Aggron has over Metagross in the Rock Polish set is the ability to hit Rotom. Metagross can run Zen Headbutt if it wants to, so i wouldn't even give Aggron that advantage. Head Smash is a very tempting move, but hell Relicanth has much better STAB moves and has Rock Head, yet we aren't raving about him.

Metagross has gravity now so it can kill rotom a if it wanst to.

 

[fmsYEAH]

Why isn't Magnet Rise getting any love?

 

[Agaki]

I don't really get how Sub+Magnet Rise helps a team, it seems good on it's own but building a team to abuse it seems a worse option than building a team around the CB or Rock Polish sets.

 

[Justinawe]

I have compiled a list of all of the OU pokemon, and how they fare against a CB Head Smash from Aggron, here are the results.

Red=OHKO
Orange=2HKO
Green=3HKO
Black=4HKO

CB Aggron Calcs
​

Head Smash

Max/Max Aerodactyl: (185.16% - 218.13%)

Max/Max Alakazam: (129.94% - 153.18%)

4 HP Azelf: (164.38% - 193.49%)

with Reflect: (82.19% - 96.92%) With SR and Reflect there’s still a 58.97% chance to OHKO

Max/Max Blissey: (90.90% - 107.14%) OHKO 41.03% of the time, always with SR

248 HP Breloom: (66.87% - 78.64%) Possible OHKO with Spikes and SR, 2HKO otherwise

4 HP: (82.44% - 96.95%) 20.51% to OHKO with SR

Max/Max Bronzong: (34.32% - 40.53%) 3HKO, 2HKO with enough prior damage

252/220 Celebi: (72.28% - 85.40%) Possible OHKO with Spikes and SR, otherwise 2HKO

Max/Max Cresselia: (51.35% - 60.36%) 88.30% to 2HKO with Leftovers

Max/Max Dragonite: (100%+)

Max/Max Dusknoir: (71.43% - 84.01%) 2HKO

Electivire:(100%+)

252/160 Calm Empoleon: (45.16% - 53.23%) Possible 2HKO with SR

252/176 Neutral Flygon: (48.35% - 56.87%) Easy 2HK0 with SR, offensive ones have no chance

Max/Max Forretress: (57.63% - 68.08%) Easy 2HKO

Max HP: (75.71% - 89.27%) Has a 7.69% to be KO’d with SR

Gengar: (100%+)

252/40 Gliscor: (80.79% - 95.20%) 53.85% chance to OHKO with SR, 2HKO otherwise

Max/Max Gyarados: (101.02% - 119.29%) Not even an Intimidate phases Aggron!

252 HP Heatran: (88.08% - 104.15%) Always OHKO with SR

4 HP: (104.94% - 124.07%) OHKO

Heracross: (100%+)

252/168 Hippowdon: (32.14% - 37.86%) Possible 3HKO with SR

Infernape: (100%+)

252 HP Jirachi: (44.31% - 52.23%) 74.88% Chance to 2HKO

Jolteon: (100%+)

252/68 Adamant Kingdra: (98.31% - 116.10%) 87.18% chance to KO, SR finishes it

252 HP Latias: (107.42% - 126.92%) OHKO

4 HP Lucario: (42.55% - 50.00%)Possible 2HKO if it has used LO already, 3HKO otherwise

252 HP Machamp: 56.25% - 66.15%) Easy 2HKO

172 HP Magnezone: (52.30% - 61.51%) Always 2HKO with SR

124/64 Adamant Mamoswine: (102.81% - 121.17%)

252/176 Metagross: (29.67% - 35.16%) Great switch into Aggron, not even a 3HKO

252 HP Metagross: (39.29% - 46.15%) Need Spikes and SR for 2HKO, otherwise 3HKO

Ninjask: (1019.01% - 1201.52%) No chance lol

Porygon-Z: (100%+)

244/184 Rhyperior: (28.47% - 33.80%) 4HKO at best even with SR

252/168 Rotom-A: (78.29% - 92.76%) 33.33% chance to OHKO with SR, 2HKO otherwise

Max/Max Salamence: (100%+)

248 HP Scizor: (100%+)

Max/Max Skarmory: (61.08% - 72.16%) Easy 2HKO

Smeargle: (100%+)

168/120 Neutral Snorlax: (87.78% - 103.73%) Always an OHKO with SR

136/156 Neutral Starmie: (117.29% - 138.31%) OHKO

Max/Max Suicune: (58.17% - 68.56%) Easy 2HKO

Max/Max Swampert: (34.16% - 40.35%) Possible 2HKO with Spikes, otherwise 3HKO

252/120 Neutral Tentacruel: (118.68% - 139.56%) OHKO

Togekiss: (100+)

252 HP Tyranitar: (81.93% - 96.53%) 58.97% chance to OHKO with SR

252 HP Umbreon: (84.01% - 98.98%)74.36% OHKO chance with SR

188/252 Vaporeon: (78.57% - 92.63%) 33.33% OHKO with SR

Weavile: (100+)

248/228 Zapdos: (152.48% - 180.16%) OHKO


Results
-30 of the top 49 most used pokemon are OHKO'd by Head Smash
-14 of them are 2HKO'd
-5 of them are 3HKO'd
-The only 2 that are 4HKO'd, Rhyperior and Metagross, have to run super defensive sets in order to not be 3HKO'd, thus losing offensive power.

Just something I wanted to share, and hopefully convince some people of how powerful the CB set really is!

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Well it seems he has no counter and thank goodness he is slow. Other wise he may be Uber. But Aqua Tail can possibly OHKO Rhyperior, i'm too lazy to run damages. Earthquake will do a number to Metagross as well. It seems people may actually start running Dugtrio faithfully again.

 

[Sei]

Damn it. I knew something was wrong...
CB Head Smash is like a guaranteed wall-breaking on those who switch in and allows the user to deliver a deadly consequence to those who chose an unwise move on their Choiced Pokemon.

Ugh, just damn it. Now I want to re-vote for CB set if the thread author would ever do that.

 

[deluge]

Sub+Liechi gives him CB power with Rock Polish speed and the ability to switch attacks.
The downside is one less offensive move and losing much of your HP.
Intimidators will remove your expensive attack boost as well.

 

[Agaki]

Well that says enough really. Just shows that CB Aggron hits damn hard.

 

[kingbattlus]

CB seems the logical choice based on the damage calcs from justinawe. if only a small handful can survive more than two, it really should be no contest. and a team designed to beat metagross, hippowdon, swampert and bronzong shouldn't be that tough to build lol hell, grass/fire takes out the whole lot of them easily. life orb roserade or something... moltres maybe to switch in on earthquakes aimed at aggron.

should be much easier than trying to get a flame-orb heracross to sweep (even though he gets way more cool points)

 

[Sei]

...grass/fire takes out the whole lot of them easily. life orb roserade or something... moltres maybe to switch in on earthquakes aimed at aggron.

should be much easier than trying to get a flame-orb heracross to sweep (even though he gets way more cool points)

Hahaha. Infernape, man. Grass Knot/Flamethrower/Fire Blast. But damn it, that brings in Latias' Surf. So...not too good unless coupled with Scizor, and then the opposing brings in their Aggron/Lucario/Machamp, etc. Shit...

Anyway, according to the damage calculation, a Timid Scarf Magnezone's Thunderbolt delivers 79%-93% on 76 HP/0 SDef Aggron. Especially that he traps Aggron, and a miss from Head Smash can potentially shuts him down. I kind of believe Dual Screen would play a significant role in providing Aggron the much-needed bulkiness.