Gligar does need a TM for STAB, yes- but it's still very, very good. and Dig and Aerial Ace are easy to get with fairly little competition; if you're using Gible, you won't be using Gligar anyway, while other high-profile Flyers learn Aerial Ace or Wing Attack by level. Gligar's advantage is in its 75 Attack, 95 Defense and 85 Speed, which combine to make it absolutely terrifying early on, while the Razor Fang, and thus Gliscor, are obtained before Gligar would start to dwindle, at which point it gets 95 Attack, 125 Defense, and 95 Speed, in addition to the ability to learn an elemental fang if you can spare five minutes to get a Heart Scale, and 75 HP/Special Defense, making it not run away in terror from anything with a Special move anymore.
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In Game Tiers, Platinum Edition!!
- Thread starter RBG
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Gligar does need a TM for STAB, yes- but it's still very, very good. and Dig and Aerial Ace are easy to get with fairly little competition; if you're using Gible, you won't be using Gligar anyway, while other high-profile Flyers learn Aerial Ace or Wing Attack by level. Gligar's advantage is in its 75 Attack, 95 Defense and 85 Speed, which combine to make it absolutely terrifying early on, while the Razor Fang, and thus Gliscor, are obtained before Gligar would start to dwindle, at which point it gets 95 Attack, 125 Defense, and 95 Speed, in addition to the ability to learn an elemental fang if you can spare five minutes to get a Heart Scale, and 75 HP/Special Defense, making it not run away in terror from anything with a Special move anymore.
Blissey IS useful in-game. Softboiled is well worth it, because it lets you keep all your other Pokes in top health, and saves you MONEY - instead of using a potion (or Super, Hyper, Max etc) on everyone, use Softboiled and then use potions only on Blissey. She does need TMing an attacking move (Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, or Ice Beam usually), but then she beats any special attacker. She can also stall while you Revive your other fainted Pokemon, she can provide Light Screen, and she can take a gamble at sleeping.
Of special mention is Blissey in double battles. Because she's such a special wall, she works well with Surfing waters or Discharging electrics. In game my standard double-battle lead is Empoleon and Blissey.
Empoleon's good, just because it has the usual boatload of steel resistances. Hydro Cannon is great for wiping things out and then counter-switching to avoid the recharge turn, while Surf's the standard attack. Drill Peck always seemed underpowered to me but has uses. Aqua Jet's great for after the infuriating NEARLY 1HKOs that seem to plague me.
Even without evolving into Alakazam, Kadabra's still damn good at special sweeping just with Psychic. It can also provide Reflect support though risks dying in the process. I'm generally a fan of screens, and I find Reflect useful in beating Cynthia's Garchomp (it Brick Breaks, but not if I use Rotom against it).
Rotom I found a bit lacking. Resistances were useful, but Discharge isn't that powerful, and Ominous Wind's even worse - I got so annoyed with it being weak that I replaced it with TMed Shadow Ball. Confusion always seems to wear off really quickly on the enemy.
Medicham's alright, but the inaccuracy of Hi Jump Kick can bite, and it's fragile.
Rapidash is OK, but takes too long to learn Flare Blitz, and Flame Wheel lacks power. Good for the icy areas and trashing Aaron (e4 bug type). Shell Bell takes the edge off the recoil and lets it fight longer.
(So yeah, that's my in-game team - Blissey, Empoleon, Rotom, Rapidash, Kadabra and Medicham. HM mules are seperate, Tropius and Bibarel of course.)
Of special mention is Blissey in double battles. Because she's such a special wall, she works well with Surfing waters or Discharging electrics. In game my standard double-battle lead is Empoleon and Blissey.
Empoleon's good, just because it has the usual boatload of steel resistances. Hydro Cannon is great for wiping things out and then counter-switching to avoid the recharge turn, while Surf's the standard attack. Drill Peck always seemed underpowered to me but has uses. Aqua Jet's great for after the infuriating NEARLY 1HKOs that seem to plague me.
Even without evolving into Alakazam, Kadabra's still damn good at special sweeping just with Psychic. It can also provide Reflect support though risks dying in the process. I'm generally a fan of screens, and I find Reflect useful in beating Cynthia's Garchomp (it Brick Breaks, but not if I use Rotom against it).
Rotom I found a bit lacking. Resistances were useful, but Discharge isn't that powerful, and Ominous Wind's even worse - I got so annoyed with it being weak that I replaced it with TMed Shadow Ball. Confusion always seems to wear off really quickly on the enemy.
Medicham's alright, but the inaccuracy of Hi Jump Kick can bite, and it's fragile.
Rapidash is OK, but takes too long to learn Flare Blitz, and Flame Wheel lacks power. Good for the icy areas and trashing Aaron (e4 bug type). Shell Bell takes the edge off the recoil and lets it fight longer.
(So yeah, that's my in-game team - Blissey, Empoleon, Rotom, Rapidash, Kadabra and Medicham. HM mules are seperate, Tropius and Bibarel of course.)
@ Blissey: No... WRONG! We've discussed this, Softboiled is not reason enough to take Blissey out of the bottom tier. That, Happiness evo, and rarity, mean that Blissey is bad.
@ Empoleon: Hydro Cannon is LOL. I'd rather hit harder with 2 surfs, personally.
@ Rotom: Rotom is only good with the Secret Key, which you should have on Platinum.
@ Medicham: Ok, what tier do you suggest?
@ Kadabra: Not Alakazam? WTF are you thinking? Unless you're playing on an emulator, it should be evolved.
@ Rapidash: Remind me again why you don't have Infernape or Houndoom?
Hydro Cannon is actually pretty good... if you trade to DP. IIrc, elemental beams + Draco Meteor aren't tutors in Pt. Hydro Cannon is useful if you only need to take out one pokemon on a given team with Empoleon. However, this isn't the case in Pt, as any pokemon that can't be OHKOed by Surf by is OHKOed by Hydro Cannon doesn't do much anyways(Spiritomb).
@Mattman: Not everyone has a friend they can trade with to evolve Kadabra.
the elementl beams and draco meteor are tutorable on platinum
Hoothoot for D. Poor typing, movepool, and stats, although Hypnosis might be worth enough for C?..
Magnemite for A. You get it fairly late, but it can become a Magnezone easily, just two level ups. And Magnezone is extremely powerful, not to mention it can learn Discharge and Magnet Bomb/Mirror Shot by itself.
Magnemite for A. You get it fairly late, but it can become a Magnezone easily, just two level ups. And Magnezone is extremely powerful, not to mention it can learn Discharge and Magnet Bomb/Mirror Shot by itself.
Blissey's rare? I found Chansey without looking. Maybe I just got lucky. I didn't find the evolution all that tricky either.
Regarding Hydro Cannon (and other Hyper Beam variants I guess), I'd rather not take damage from using more Surfs. Sometimes I _need_ the raw power of HC, especially if what I'm facing carries Earthquake. EDIT: Obviously I carry Surf as well. What would you put instead of HC on Empoleon?
I don't have secret key :-( I only got Platinum after the WiFi giveaway had ended. Without it, Rotom is a bit rubbish sometimes it's true.
Sure, Kadabra SHOULD be evolved into Alakazam. I'm just saying that it's still usable as Kadabra. Sorting out trading it isn't something I've got round to yet.
Ponyta's caught earlier than Houndour I think, and I didn't start with Chimchar. That's why I have Rapidash. It works well enough that I'm not gonna spend the time training up a Houndoom or Infernape for in-game stuff other than the battle frontier.
I won't give tier suggestions for anything, because I've only played through once, so I can't compare to others. I'm just giving commentary on how I find the Pokemon I've used.
I don't see how Hydro Cannon is a factor in deciding Empoleon's tier placement. You can't get it until way after the Elite Four, after all, and the only thing you'll have left to do by the time you get Hydro Cannon is beat the last few in-game trainers.
![Requiem[9]](/forums/data/avatars/m/38/38887.jpg?1514734517){kind=avatar}
Rotom is fine without Secret Key, especially ingame. It's stats aren't super excellent without a form, but at the same time, you get it fairly early in the game at a high level, which means that you can get a lot of use out of it without any sort of commitment at all, and you can use TMs to give it STAB Tbolt and Shadow Ball. The only other option that you really have ingame, that you can get at a reasonable time, is Luxray, which I used myself, but you get it so early on that it's bound to compete with your other pokemon for experience, and literally learns no good moves by level or TM, since Tbolt is in applicable. It obviously still has its amazing immunities and resistances even if its defenses aren't as good, and it will really just make your entire playthrough much easier.
Big things I think are level and typing, which you get no matter what.
The point is that walls aren't particularly useful ingame, and you get this one so late that it's a pain to get up even then; it isn't particularly hard to find, but at the same time you don't really have any reason to find it anyways. Potions aren't so expensive that you really need to circumvent them for the sake of money, since money isn't terribly hard to come by unless you skip by more or less every trainer you see in the game. Having a pokemon on your team just to stall out the other team while you heal your pokemon is honestly just a waste of time, when the alternative is that you just finish the battle and heal afterwards, unless your team is very drastically underleveled. Bringing in something with a resistance may even accomplish the same thing. Especially when you considers how Chansey will only really even stall special attacks due to how garbage its defense is, so its utility even in that respect is limited.
I agree that Ponyta is preferable to Houndoom though if you are for some reason not using Chimchar, because you get it so much earlier.
Completely agreed. I would just use Surf for STAB and give it some random moves like Ice Beam or Hidden Power for coverage.
Also, any news on the HGSS thread?
You can use the GTS glitch (post it for something that can't be acquired, complete another trade through GTS), but that depends on your stance on that.
I guess we'll disagree on Blissey. I've found her useful. I'll leave it at that.
And it's a fair point that Hydro Cannon isn't gotten until too late to affect the tiering.
That's the problem. I can't, because whenever I seek I always get the stupid requests! GTS works well when I offer (got Graveler, Turtwig, Chimchar, and Glameow so far, now waiting for Stunky), but never seeking. I don't have enough Pokemon to stand a good chance of meeting the few non-silly offers, and this will apply for anyone during the plot.
And it's a fair point that Hydro Cannon isn't gotten until too late to affect the tiering.
That's the problem. I can't, because whenever I seek I always get the stupid requests! GTS works well when I offer (got Graveler, Turtwig, Chimchar, and Glameow so far, now waiting for Stunky), but never seeking. I don't have enough Pokemon to stand a good chance of meeting the few non-silly offers, and this will apply for anyone during the plot.
Hmm, serebii doesn't have it on the move tutor page, but I'll take your word for it.
Firstly, at LEAST put up a Kadabra for something like a level 100 shiny Silcoon or Wurmple (or a level one mewtwo, ect.)
Then, you find something that is either A: version exclusive, B: Rare, (there is almost always a Feebas/Spiritoum trade on Wi-Fi) or C: only obtainable in Platinum. For instance, offer something like Tangela or Tangrowth up for trade, and look for other offers about trades for Tangela. It will get taken.
EDIT: Right of the analisis line, a fresh batch of ratings!
Ralts (Gardevoir) - A: A good psychic is hard to get ingame, but Gardevoir fits the bill. It is better then Alakazam ingame, due to the better ingame BST (has decent defenses), and access to the almighty Thunderbolt. Is hard to level up until it is fully evolved, though.
Ralts (Gallade) - B: Caught at the same time as Gardevoir, but much worse. Bad movepool (only moves that stick out are False swipe and Close Combat) without TMs, and while you can use Kirlea for less time, the pokemon you will face mostly use physical moves... that Gallade can't take. Ow.
Lickitung - C: Without being able to use STAB explosion, Lickylicky loses it's niche. HOWEVER, it is avalable early, and can learn a few good moves via level up. Pure normal isn't THAT bad of a type, but there are better though.
[hoo boy, here come a bunch of bad pokemon!]
Eevee (Vaporeon) - B: By far the best Eeveelution, but that isn't saying much. Vappy only gets the normal water moves and Shadow Ball, really. Still, water isn't THAT BAD of a type... it's just increadably stacked. I'll make a post later in this thread about how Vaporeon doesn't stack up to competition, read that if you disagree.
Eevee (Jolteon) - C: The Eeveelutions all have bad movepools, but Jolteon takes that to the next level: he doesn't get ANY good moves via level up! That, and his movepool (actually, movepuddle) is predominantly physical: off of 65 base attack! If it had only 10 more base attack, it would be vying for S... but it doesn't.
Eevee (Flareon) - D: Infernape, Houndour, hell, even Rapidash were avalable, and you chose FLAREON? It's best attack is Fire Fang!
Eevee (Espeon) - C: A great type, ruined by a movepuddle of Psychic and Shadow Ball. Remember, back before the Physical/Special split, Bite was it's claim to fame? All psychics get the more powerful Shadow Ball now.
Eevee (Umbreon) - D: Hits like a punch from a two year old. Has the same problems as the other Eeveelutions. Put it together, and you get... Umbreon!
Eevee (Leafeon) - D: My origanal scetch had this guy with B: because Grass is a good type in ingame D/P/Pt, and good grass types are hard to get. However, I soon reilised that it's best two moves (SD and Leaf Blade) come after level 70. No. Choose Tangrowth or Torterra (just because Chimchar is S doesn't mean you have to pick him: I bet you won't have Starly and Scyther together)
Eevee (Glaceon) - D: If it were avalable as early as the other Eeveelutions, it would be huge. Ice types are ALWAYS good to have. But alas, it is found around the same time as Mamoswine, Weavile, and Abomasnow.
Only a few more, then I'll start looking at the already tiered.
I think that Elekid should be in the D tier. While it's pretty powerful and and learns many different attack types, most of those moves require the player to spend a lot of time in the Underground looking for Shards. It also comes at a point where it's usefulness is diminished, unless your team has a lot of trouble with Swimmers and Sailors, which it shouldn't.
First, you can't specify shininess. Secondly, where are you going to see a Mewtwo ingame?
Considering how you have to put up with Eevee for about 20 levels, C Tier seems a bit much.
That's just my two cents, though.
First, you can't specify shininess. Secondly, where are you going to see a Mewtwo ingame?
Considering how you have to put up with Eevee for about 20 levels, C Tier seems a bit much.
That's just my two cents, though.
It should be noted that Statups are absurdly broken vs the AI. Few AIs have (P)hazers, and Calm Mind / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Hyper Potion has good enough coverage to sweep. The 4th attack can be Thunder-Wave (replaced by Hypnosis later) to make a good utility pokemon as well.
Ralts has slow growth as you mentioned, so nothing that will make it S tier. But A Tier for Gardevoir sounds about right.
X Speed (cheap as hell) + 3 or 4 Calm Minds will completely level the Elite Four with only a mediocre level Gardevoir. All you need after that are Leppa Berries...
By that logic, though, couldn't any Pokemon be a god in-game with enough stat-ups? I mean, Bronzor learns Calm Mind. Surely with Extrasensory/Thunderbolt/CM/Filler and some items, he could level the Elite Four, right?
Thunderbolt you can get for a boatload of coins at the Corner of Games, and Thunder is bought at the Department Store, so both are replaceable.
Well, after you finish the quick, efficient gameplay, you can get Thunderbolt back.
Disagree with these three.
Gallade is at least as good as Gardevoir is; you can evolve it faster, so you don't need to deal with a random Kirlia for 10 levels, learns Slash, a very reasonable physical attack, in two elevls, and it will learn Swords Dance by level in three more. It is nowhere near outclassed by Medicham if only for that fact; one SD and it's clearly substantially stronger, a fact that is much more useful in any appreciable ingame situation. You can give it Drain Punch or Brick Break later for a fighting STAB, and it learns Psycho Cut in a few more levels. Something like SD/Brick Break/Slash/Psycho Cut is very reasonable for most of the game, and you'll get Close Combat, obviously beastly off of 115 Attack and an SD, just in time for E4. Not to mention it's much more practical to use because of how fragile Medicham ends up being most of the time.
Vaporeon is a low A at least. You get Eevee at a very reasonable level, you get if fairly early in the game, and while you will have to put up with random garbage moves for a while, Surf isn't that far away and once you get Surf Vaporeon is a very solid party member both defensively and offensively. I have no idea why you're dismissing STAB Surf, as it's tremendously useful ingame. It also doesn't get it's STAB that late; it's comparable to when Gyarados gets Aqua Tail, which is in A, and Aqua Tail isn't even very good. No DD obviously hurts it but at the same time you don't have to deal with Magikarp.
Glaceon is never higher than D I think because of how late you get it. Right before the seventh badge? It doesn't matter how good it is if you get it that late, especially assuming you're using a plain Eevee for 15 or so levels, it's completely useless. I know you qualified it, but still, factor in the qualification.
The idea is that you use both Scyther and Starly. Obviously there's a conflict, but you need something to Fly and in this game there is absolutely no reason to use anything but Starly for that purpose; at the same time, it's clearly good enough to use even if Scyther does have Flying STAB because Flying doesn't really hit anything for SE anyways. Both can be used for their own purposes; Scyther is a bit more powerful and can set up, and uses 3 HM moves, while Staraptor gets you an Intimidate when you need it and is pretty generally powerful, maybe even better later on with CC. Normal is great for Giratina as well.
After Surf by the Windworks. You can probably just pay for it at somepoint too if you want, or need two; it isn't terribly expensive.
Well, a good setup move by level is obviously a plus in addition to already more than acceptable stats. Bronzong is obviously useless because of the stats it has but Gardevoir is good with or without setup.
I was merely using Bronzor as an example, but I still think that performance with items is irrelevant to this, seeing as how a level 20 Shieldon with six X Attacks suddenly has an Attack stat of over 120.
Also, before leaving the subject of Bronzor, I've found that if you catch it before you fight Gardenia, it is one of the few Pokemon that can withstand Roserade, and if it has Extrasensory, it can put a number on the leafy dancer. It also performs well versus Fantina for similar reasons, though it's usefulness drops off from there.
Also, before leaving the subject of Bronzor, I've found that if you catch it before you fight Gardenia, it is one of the few Pokemon that can withstand Roserade, and if it has Extrasensory, it can put a number on the leafy dancer. It also performs well versus Fantina for similar reasons, though it's usefulness drops off from there.
I would give priority to moves like Calm Mind, which increase 2 stats: Special Defense and Special Attack. Against the Elite Four, you really can sweep with just one X Speed and your +Speed EVs on top of that with a Gardevoir (or any ~80 base speed pokemon I guess). Getting enough Special Attack to sweep is another step of course, but the buff in Sp. Def is enough to hold you over while you turtle against say... Spiritomb. (Spiritomb can't kill a ~lvl 50 Gardevoir with Dark Pulse in 2 hits, one Calm Mind turns that into three-hit KO and hyper potions help you out).
So simultaneously buffing attack and defense is quite good, and at least gets your strategy going twice as fast. Maybe even faster, because you spend less time drinking potions due to your improved defense.
Pokemon with only say... X Attack or X Defense can only raise one stat per turn, slowing you down in comparison to this strategy.
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Really, any good statup move (Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, and Calm Mind) fit the bill. So its not really Gardevoir specific. Gallade's Swords Dance + X Speed would have a similar effect.
It also helps that Kirlia learns Calm Mind as early as level 25. Again, not S class tier stuff or anything, but a solid strategy to get through the game in my experience.
So simultaneously buffing attack and defense is quite good, and at least gets your strategy going twice as fast. Maybe even faster, because you spend less time drinking potions due to your improved defense.
Pokemon with only say... X Attack or X Defense can only raise one stat per turn, slowing you down in comparison to this strategy.
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Really, any good statup move (Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, Bulk Up, and Calm Mind) fit the bill. So its not really Gardevoir specific. Gallade's Swords Dance + X Speed would have a similar effect.
It also helps that Kirlia learns Calm Mind as early as level 25. Again, not S class tier stuff or anything, but a solid strategy to get through the game in my experience.
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