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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

BPLead Floatzel (Floatzel) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
- Baton Pass


Since you're not going to listen, I'll break apart this set for you.

Aqua Jet is a weak attack to use on this set. Just because you managed to get lucky a few times and roll maximum damage (twice at that) doesn't mean that Aqua Jet is a decent choice. Using an Adamant Nature (since you're going to lose against Azelf anyway) would seal the deal, but then Infernape would walk all over you. You're wrong about Metagross; if Earthquake does 63% minimum, how much sense does it make to Bullet Punch the next turn? At +1 Defense, Metagross can still go for the 2HKO (which is 100% guaranteed) Floatzel, or just Explode.

I laughed at the log you posted. If Rain Dance Floatzel was expected, why didn't the opposition just Brave Bird off of the bat? Taunt is pretty common on anything leading with a base 95+ Speed =/.
Yes Azelf is a tricky one. In theory you COULD set up and bp on some sets and circumstances, but the less risky option is to flee I suppose.
In theory, Azelf could setup Rocks and keep its Focus Sash in fact while you Baton Pass. In theory, Azelf could setup a Reflect before you Taunt. In theory, Azelf could use Taunt and fuck over this entire set. Anything that can only happen in theory is not reliable.

It doesn't. I showed a calc for this. Even without Bulk Up, it will never be KOd with this move combination, and given that you will usually bulk up the first turn, you can laugh in Metagross' face.
Ooooooooooorrrrr, Metagross can do 63.1% - 74.4% with Earthquake and do 42% - 49.7% with Earthquake after a Bulk Up. Yeah, Floatzel's that frail. If you Bulk Up first, you have worry about Metagross OHKOing your switch in with Explosion or setting up Stealth Rock.

You can set up on it. A bit prediction is needed in case it carries roar: will you taunt it, or will you set up on it? I think it's always better to bulk up the first turn, since your opponent does not know this set. As they will often Stealth Rock, you can then Taunt and Pass.
I won't get into how dumb that sounds, but Swampert has a guaranteed 2HKO if you Taunt and then Bulk Up, or it can use Stealth Rock if you Bulk Up and Baton Pass.
Prediction is required: Will it sleep powder/set up or will it attack you? In my experience it's usually better to Taunt first, you may have just lost a pokemon if you mispredict but oh well. You cannot expect to be successfull with floatzel if you do not predict correctly.
If you for some reason fear an attack, simply Bulk Up and BP to safety. It's a win or lose situation.
As with Swampert, your actions are completely dependent on what Roserade does. More than likely, it's going to attack first and screw over the Focus Sash. Roserade will still have its Focus Sash if you Baton Pass, allowing it to use Sleep Powder and follow up with Toxic Spikes if Taunt wears off.

Floatzel can set up on Heatran, although heatran will get SR up.
Earth Power does 54.5% - 64.4%.

If you move Bulk Up first, then it cannot ohko you with Crunch or Stone Edge (guess what, even without Bulk up, stone edge does 74% - 87.5% and crunch does similar damage). Only thunder versions could hurt you.
But it can 2HKO or just setup its own rocks. Also, lol @ ThunderTar.
 
I have been testing this Lucario last night with Delko and although it lacks the raw power the SD set has, it is able to lure out and defeat his most common counters (Gliscor, Rotom-a,...).

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Lucario @ Expert Belt
Naughty Nature
Ability: Inner Focus
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 SAtk

~ Substitute
~ Dark Pulse
~ HP ice
~ Close Combat

People who see Lucario, will switch out to their counter, so Lucario could get an easy Substitute up.
From there it can plan it's attack safely:

- Dark Pulse: takes care of Rotom-a (who often spends more in Def and SDef), Gengar, ...
- HP ice: takes care of Gliscor, but also Salamence switch-ins.
- Close Combat: CC is needed on Lucario, it helps him with opposing Lucario, Tyranitar and everything else that's not resisted.

Let me know what you think ;3
 
Oxymentus, you can also type in a normal tone, you know. You do not need to be extremely annoying with your obnoxious sarcasm. I'm more than willing to 'listen' if I see some good arguments, and am always up for discussion.

Aqua Jet is a weak attack to use on this set. Just because you managed to get lucky a few times and roll maximum damage (twice at that) doesn't mean that Aqua Jet is a decent choice. Using an Adamant Nature (since you're going to lose against Azelf anyway) would seal the deal, but then Infernape would walk all over you. You're wrong about Metagross; if Earthquake does 63% minimum, how much sense does it make to Bullet Punch the next turn? At +1 Defense, Metagross can still go for the 2HKO (which is 100% guaranteed) Floatzel, or just Explode.
Firstly, Aqua Jet is there only for Infernape and Aerodactyl. Nothing else. It's pure Utility and is not meant as a sweeping move. I do not understand where you got this part from : "Just because you managed to get lucky a few times and roll maximum damage (twice at that) doesn't mean that Aqua Jet is a decent choice. " I think my best option is to just ignore it and write it off as being obnoxious just for the sake of it. (in case you were wondering, I DID post calcs to show the usefulness of Aqua Jet; it always 2hkos standard infernape and aerodactyl leads).

Oh, let me do that Metagross calc. again for you. I run 4 hp evs on floatzel:
Earthquake: 63.1% - 74.4% on a +0 floatzel
Earthquake: 42% - 49.7% on a +1 floatzel
Bullet Punch: 18.9% - 22.4% on a +0 floatzel
Bullet Punch: 12.5% - 15.1% on a +1 floatzel

As you see, without any form of Bulk Up boost, EQ + BP will MAXIMALLY do 96.8% damage, so what we can now assume is that Metagross will never use the inefficient Bullet Punch on Floatzel.

So, what if it uses EQ twice? Well, you cannot survive +0 and a +1 def. Earthquake, but you can ALWAYS survive 2 +1def. earthquakes! Obviously barring a critical hit or explosion. This makes using Bulk Up the first turn the best choice (unless willing to risk using Taunt first, to stop metagross from setting up Stealth Rock).

Ooooooooooorrrrr, Metagross can do 63.1% - 74.4% with Earthquake and do 42% - 49.7% with Earthquake after a Bulk Up. Yeah, Floatzel's that frail. If you Bulk Up first, you have worry about Metagross OHKOing your switch in with Explosion or setting up Stealth Rock.
Yes, it is probable that the Metagross sets up stealth rock. Sure it could explode on anything, but if you pass to a ghost, rock or steel type pokemon that will not be very damaging. You can see explosion from a mile away, really
 
@BLAAK: But you also stand a chance of being defeated by things Lucario can beat. Why are you running no speed, on something so fragile no less? Subbing Luke stands a chance at working, but you're relying too much on whether or not the opponent will switch. Sometimes they won't. Imagine, say, switching it in a non-scarfed Timid Heatran. The opponent assumes you'll be SDing since you predict a switch, so they select Flamethrower/Lava Plume and find out they're faster as they break your Sub.

Ok, example could go numerous ways and it's a bad one, but it's a possible scenario.
 
My Lucario is very different from the regular Swords Dance Lucario so it is very unexpected. It has a very wide spread moveset and I think it would work well. I am thinking about using this for GB's singles ladder but I want to know you thoughts. So here it is:

Lucario.jpg


Death (Lucario)@Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Attack/252 Speed/6Defense
Ability:Inner Focus
-Bullet Punch
-Close Combat
-ExtremeSpeed
-BlazeKick

I have BulletPunch to surpise incoming Aerodactyls that are weakened by Stealth Rock. Blaze Kick is for those tricky Scizors. I am currently 4-0 with this on my team but I want to improve it. Any suggestions?
 
My Lucario is very different from the regular Swords Dance Lucario so it is very unexpected. It has a very wide spread moveset and I think it would work well. I am thinking about using this for GB's singles ladder but I want to know you thoughts. So here it is:

Lucario.jpg


Death (Lucario)@Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 Attack/252 Speed/6Defense
Ability:Inner Focus
-Bullet Punch
-Close Combat
-ExtremeSpeed
-BlazeKick

I have BulletPunch to surpise incoming Aerodactyls that are weakened by Stealth Rock. Blaze Kick is for those tricky Scizors. I am currently 4-0 with this on my team but I want to improve it. Any suggestions?

first of all, i am going to say this set only got the surprise factor, has the SD set (and even specs) got more power behind, second:half of the moveset is made of priority moves, but you use a jolly nature, trust me, lucario is better off has adamant, he NEED the extra power, in your case he need even more since he dont got SD to power-up.
 
Yeah, you need an adamant nature for the extra power, and sadly without crunch the Rotom formes will completely wall you as you manage just around 30% with blaze kick. Also, what is bullet punch hitting other than, maybe, Gengar (you will just hit the ghost for around 50% with a jolly nature, and slightly harder with an adamant one) and a weakened TTar? Aerodactyl exists only as a lead nowadays, so that's quite irrelevant. Also, if you're using blaze kick just for Scizor and Forry, you better use swords dance in that spot as a +2 LO close combat can achieve the same result, but SD also boosts your other 2 moves.
 
I'd be relatiely surprised if this hasn't been posted before, but then again I suppose Skuntank is NU and might not get too much attention. Anyway, if Spiritomb runs half of the same moves and has 2 inferior moves, I think this deserves to be in the analysis, or get some recognition.

Cat-22
435_skuntank_1_m.png

(yeah, he's going to piss all over your team)

Skuntank @ Life Orb, 252 HP / 252 ATK / 6 DEF, Adamant
Sucker Punch
Pursuit
Fire Blast
Explosion

The core of this set is pretty obviously the Pursuit/Sucker Punch combination, from which the name is derived. This combination was famous back near the start of the D/P metagame, has all but died out recently due to it's only other user, Spiritomb, falling out of OU, and lacking the real power to pull it off (none of the listed sets for Spiritomb really have the attack EV's to make the set worthwhile in much apart from azelf), going for defense above offense.

This is where this set shines however - with max attack and LO, Skuntank reach 407 attack, giving the most powerful Pursuit (bar CBTar, LO/CB Weavile and LO Honchkrow) and Sucker Punch (bar LO Honchkrow, CB Slaking, LO Absol). Unfortunately, surprise does factor in to part of the effectiveness of this combo - after seeing both SP and Pursuit the opponent will likely know what's up and try to mess you up, but that's part of the fun anyway =). Just for an idea of power (against possible counters that won't be exploded):

SP vs 4/0 Flygon: 58.9% - 69.9%
vs 4/0 Salamence: 53.8% - 63.7% (destroyed with a scizor also on the team)
vs 252/168 Rotom: 71.7% - 85.5% (the most defensive rotom, although it carries will-o-wisp, which messes up the set)
Naturally, off 407 attack this combo annihilates scarf Rotom, any form of Latias without reflect, azelf, gengar, and does about 66% to fleeing scarfed Uxie.

Now, I say exploded, as Explosion is carried since the above combo can't kill everything. Off 407 attack, it becomes the most powerful physical attack that you'd normally find in OU, bar the rare CB Snorlax SD. Whole scores of pokemon are killed off - basically anything that isn't boosted, Rock, Steel or Ghost (but you'd be silly trying them after seeing the first two moves). And even then those pokes are struggling:
Explosion vs Tyranitar 4/0: 83% - 97.7% (vs 252/0: 70.3% - 82.7%)
vs Metagross 4/0: 74.2% - 87.4% (vs 252/252: 50.5% - 59.6%)

Finally, you'll see Fire Blast. You might be wondering why a special attack with an adamant nature and no special EV's, but that's the beauty of Life Orb. This move is saved for the last 3 important steels that don't mind too much the above attacks - Scizor, Skarmory and Forretress. With Stealth rock on the field, the only way Forretress could ever survive is 252/252 S.Def +S.Def nature - any other nature and it's dead. Since you might have guessed, this is pretty rare, so nothing to worry about. The same almost counts for Skarmory - with a S.Def nature (the only real way it'll not be 2HKO'd), it has no chance of outspeeding Skuntank, who'll keep FB'ing until it's dead. Also, the chance of burning isn't too far from the chance of missing, which'll speed along the death. Scizor is obviously a goner.

Speaking of Scizor, it's surprising how many people put him in after the first kill and expect a similar revenge kill. The only way it will ever do this is after SR, LO damage, and Scizor must outspeed and use Bug Bite. Again, thanks to the rarity of Skuntank, they're not expecting how buly this set is, nor that it may have Fire Blast, so they're most likely to BP (whick the skunk laughs at) or swords dance, which again is laughable again.

Even with no EV's in speed, at 84 base, most tanks are outsped (as well as usual CB users) and exploded on. The EV's are pretty obvious - max attack and the defenses. The super-bulky physical attackers will usually carry earthquake and can be switched out on (and even if they kill, there's the wonderful Aftermath ability which can hit through subs), and the harder hitting special attacks are usually Dark-weak, or slow.

In all the time of useage, I've found farely few counters, but these are Lucario, bulky Rotom, fast T-tars (if I know they'll DD, boom), Metagross, Salamence and Dragonite.
 
For the calculation against Salamence, did you factor in intimidate? Also, if you SP while it DDs, then it's guaranteed a KO -- at the least. Was thinking of having intimidate calcs, but you can figure them out anyway. Besides, Skun's not going to stay in on one, but become more of a revenge attacker. if you explode when it comes in, it's dead anyway.

"CB Snorlax SD" What? Choice Band, Self Destruct.

Also, isn't Fire Blast better than Explosion against Metagross?FB may get the super effective damage, but it's coming off a SP.A that's half of Skun's attack. Explosion has effectively 500 base power with the halved-defense effect it has, making it twice as powerful overall (and then Gross has higher physical defense, making it about 1.5 times as powerful. A lot of Gross have Occa berries anyway.
 
392.png

Infernape@Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Def / 192 Spe
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat/U-Turn
-Will-O-Wisp
-Slack Off
An inferior Arcanine that can work in the sand. Input please.
EDIT: Let me describe in more detail, as I may decide to test this.
The aim of this set isn't really to "wall", but more importantly, for the fastest burn in OU, outside of resorting to the even more frail Gengar. This Infernape can switch in on and stall out/kill a variety of threats in the metagame. Let me share some damage calculations to show how this Infernape fares against some pokes you would think slaughter it.

vs 244 HP / 72 Def Infernape:
What Infernape can force out to cause trouble:
86 Atk Sassy Bronzong's Earthquake (leftovers): 48.6% - 57.6% (24.3-28.8% when burned)
0 Atk Impish Gliscor's Earthquake (leftovers): 70.1% - 83.1% (35.0-41.5% when burned)
252 Atk Adament Scizor's Superpower (Choice Band): 73.2% - 86.2% (36.6-43.1% when burned)
252 SpAtk Modest Magnezone's Thunderbolt (Leftovers): 63.8% - 75.4% (-- when burned)
What switches in to Infernape and is crippled:
252 Atk Adament Kingdra's Waterfall (leftovers): 78.5% - 93.2% (39.2-46.6% when burned)
252 Atk Adament Gyarados's Waterfall (leftovers): 95.5% - 112.4% (47.7-56.2% when burned)
232 Atk Naive Salamence's Earthquake (Life Orb): 98.3% - 115.8% (49.1-57.9% when burned)

Keep in mind that not every pokemon will predict your switchin. Infernape can switch in on Metagross's Meteor Mash, Scizor's Bullet Punch, Tyranitar's Crunch, a variety of Grass Knots, Ice Beams, etc. So, if your team could value either just another Scizor check or some quick burn support, DefensiveNape could be worth looking into.
 
248.png


Careful (+Sp.Def -Sp.Attk) Nature
252HP/100Spe/156Sp.Def

Dragon Dance
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

The 100 Speed EVs ensure that Tyranitar will be faster than all 115 base speed after two Dragon Dances. Tyranitar will also be faster than enemy's ScarfedTar.

This is how to use it: Simply switch in on the likes of Rotom-A, Blissey, Cresselia, Latias, and anything that Tyranitar can switch into. Then use Crunch to see what other pokemon your opponent has. Once you find out, the next time you switch in Tyranitar, use Dragon Dance, without fearing being burned by Rotom-A, since you can always Rest and heal the burn.

Proceed from there.
 
248.png


Careful (+Sp.Def -Sp.Attk) Nature
252HP/100Spe/156Sp.Def

Dragon Dance
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

The 100 Speed EVs ensure that Tyranitar will be faster than all 115 base speed after two Dragon Dances. Tyranitar will also be faster than enemy's ScarfedTar.

This is how to use it: Simply switch in on the likes of Rotom-A, Blissey, Cresselia, Latias, and anything that Tyranitar can switch into. Then use Crunch to see what other pokemon your opponent has. Once you find out, the next time you switch in Tyranitar, use Dragon Dance, without fearing being burned by Rotom-A, since you can always Rest and heal the burn.

Proceed from there.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not liking this Cro(Pokemon) fad that was promoted by the SleepTalk discussion a few weeks ago. First of all, people need to realize that what makes Crocune work is amazing defensive stats with one of the best defensive typings in the game, mono water. Your Tyranitar simply has too many weaknesses to pull off a RestTalk set like this effectively.

Standard Lucario +0 Close Combat OHKO's you twice over (226.7% - 267.3%). Crunch does pitiful damage.
Standard CB Scizor Bullet Punch does 74.3% - 87.6%. Of course, a +2 Scizor (SD Variants) will do more, probably an OHKO. Superpower from CB Scizor is an OHKO. Crunch fails to deal enough damage.
Standard New MixMence EQ does 58.9% - 69.8% while Brick Break does 89.1% - 105%. However, MixMence takes 67.4% - 79.8% from a +1 Crunch, which is just about fatal with Sandstorm and Stealth Rock.
A +0 Max Attack LO Gyarados Waterfall does 83.2% - 98%
A standard LeadGross Meteor Mash does 83.7% - 98.5%
Standard Lead (Scarf) Jirachi Iron Head does 50.5% - 59.4%, with a good chance of flinch haxing you out of existence.
64 Atk neutral natured Mixape does 169.3% - 200%
Max SpAtk Timid LO Gengar does 88.1% - 104% with Focus Blast
The Standard LeadPert does 54% - 63.9% with Earthquake while it can take a pretty good hit from a +1 Crunch
The standard defensive Gliscor does 47.5% - 56.4% with Earthquake, while taking 34.2% - 40.7% from a +1 Crunch.

Plus a slew of other problems, but the fact that I can take almost any physical pokemon from the top 15 OU's and at least give you serious problems, if not stop you outright, does not bode well for the viability of this set.

So I implore you and everyone else who reads this, making a RestTalk stat up set in the vein of Crocune for any pokemon will NOT work. You need good typing (Ttar does not have this), defensive stats (Ttar arguably does have this, especially on the Sp. Def side), and preferably a way to augment your defenses, something that Curse will not alleviate fast enough for Tyranitar, so don't say it.

Also, how much did you actually test this? It seems that I see a lot of sets that are crappy in theory and probably worse in the field, which can probably be attributed to a crapload of (bad) theorymon as well as a lack of field testing.
 
Morning Sun's recovery ability is reduced by 1/2. Why would you use Arcanine in OU anyway (unless you want a grass resist, but there are better ones)?

Edit: There are plenty of viable Cropokes out there like Regirock, but they work better with defense boosting moves with exception of maybe Kingdra who can spam DD Outrage without getting confused.

Tyranitar is better off with 2 attacking moves and Restalk because he needs the coverage and ability to take hits from stuff like Heatran.
 
Tyranitar is better off with 2 attacking moves and Restalk because he needs the coverage and ability to take hits from stuff like Heatran.
But I'm not even sure on the usefulness of a set like that. Usually Tyranitar has some way of boosting his attack, be it CB, DD, or even Expert Belt to help with Pursuit. I don't think it has the necessary offensive prowess when you run RestTalk + 2 attacks.
 
Pursuit is weak. Crunch would be better. It would be weaker, but running max attack could help that.
But then you'd be missing a LOT of bulk, which means you're running for Rest too quickly, meaning you are easily overwhelmed while asleep.

I think we can agree that RestTalk Ttar overall is just too unreliable to be used outside of some very uncommon niche role.
 
Pokemon Name: Electrode
101_electrode_1_m.png

Moveset Name: Thieving Bomb
Move 1: Thief
Move 2: Explosion
Move 3: Reflect/Thunderbolt/Lightscreen
Move 4: Reflect/Thunderbolt/Lightscreen
Item: None
Ability: Static
Nature(s): Hasty/Jolly
EVs: 0/252/0/4/0/252

I have tested it a few times in OU. Whenever I did, the person reacted as if Electrode was about to Explode, only to find that it would steal first. The reason for no item is due to the limitations of Thief. I have yet to test Salac Berry, which would allow for more SpA EVs. If you have any other suggestions for consumable items that would still allow Thief to be used before Electrode explodes, then by all means, suggest them

Hasty if using Thunderbolt, Jolly if going with Double Screen. The strategy is as follows:

Use Thief
If Electrode is about to faint after Thief, explode. Otherwise, set up a screen
If Electrode is about to faint after setting up Reflect/Light Screen, explode. Otherwise, set up the other screen/use Thunderbolt
If Electrode is about to faint after using Thunderbolt/Setting up both screens, explode. Otherwise, keep Thunderbolting until you think Electrode is too weak to survive another attack

EDIT: Did some more tests. It is pretty effective at countering Azelf
 
Cat-22
435_skuntank_1_m.png

(yeah, he's going to piss all over your team)

Skuntank @ Life Orb, 252 HP / 252 ATK / 6 DEF, Adamant
Sucker Punch
Pursuit
Fire Blast
Explosion

I am writing the Skuntank analysis for the site and I included a Life Orb set (for OU of course) that I playtested extensively and is much more efficient than yours. You should check out mine; it runs Lonely and 114 SpA that scores a bunch of 2HKOs with Fire Blast, and some speed as well to outrun numerous threats. Max attack is retained of course. I love Skuntank, which is why I wrote the analysis in the first place, but what you posted is inefficient and doesn't utilize Fire Blast as well.

Instead of Pursuit, I included a choice of Toxic / Crunch. Skuntank can't really afford a mispredict against the likes of Latias and co, but Crunch still gives you a handy move to break their subs or deal the same damage as Sucker Punch should they decide not to attack you. Pursuit leaves you more vulnerable to a defensive Rotom's WoW. If they switch, Toxic is a better option because in my experience people like to switch in bulky things like Tyranitar and bulky waters, and you cripple them without being forced to explode. I myself use Toxic but obv Crunch has its many merits and works better than Pursuit.

That being said, glad to see more OU Skuntank users! In the nickname department, mine is named Chernobyl. ;)
 
121.png


Starmie@Mystic Water
Timid Nature
252Spe/252Sp.Atk/4HP

The item Mystic Water boosts water move by 20%.

Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin

This is not that creative, but it's an awesome move set. Mystic Water I found to be a much better choice than Expert Belt. Since with Expert Belt, Starmie can't deal that much damage to switch in Scizor, Rotom-A, etc. With Mystic Water, it blasts those two pokemon (and pretty much anything that doesn't exist Water) extremely hard. Mystic Water also prolongs Starmie's longevity, which Life Orb can't.

Getting rid of either Tb or Ice Beam to give Starmie Recover is a good choice, but I often have trouble with Salamence if Starmie doesn't carry Ice Beam, and of course have trouble with Gyarados if Starmie doesn't carry Thunderbolt.

In the end, having both moves works best. Plus, Mystic Water gives Starmie an added mystery. People sometimes think, "Gosh, Hydro Pump hits so hard so Starmie must be holding Choice Specs!!" Wrong. Then of course, Starmie surprises them with Tb or Ice Beam, earning a good kill.

What do you think?
 
121.png


Starmie@Mystic Water
Timid Nature
252Spe/252Sp.Atk/4HP

The item Mystic Water boosts water move by 20%.

Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin

This is not that creative, but it's an awesome move set. Mystic Water I found to be a much better choice than Expert Belt. Since with Expert Belt, Starmie can't deal that much damage to switch in Scizor, Rotom-A, etc. With Mystic Water, it blasts those two pokemon (and pretty much anything that doesn't exist Water) extremely hard. Mystic Water also prolongs Starmie's longevity, which Life Orb can't.

Getting rid of either Tb or Ice Beam to give Starmie Recover is a good choice, but I often have trouble with Salamence if Starmie doesn't carry Ice Beam, and of course have trouble with Gyarados if Starmie doesn't carry Thunderbolt.

In the end, having both moves works best. Plus, Mystic Water gives Starmie an added mystery. People sometimes think, "Gosh, Hydro Pump hits so hard so Starmie must be holding Choice Specs!!" Wrong. Then of course, Starmie surprises them with Tb or Ice Beam, earning a good kill.

What do you think?
Looks a lot like anti-Lead Starmie to be honest (under the non choice attacking Starmie in the analysis). However, Mystic Water does give you some of the benefits of LO without the hit on your longevity, which is nice. However, all the things you mention are very easily achieved with Life Orb, so if you don't mind the recoil, Life Orb should be used instead. If you do mind the recoil, read on.

Well, I've taken a few quick calcs and this set has some merit on a few specific purposes. As far as Scizor goes, it's a 2HKO either way, but you do have a shot of OHKO ing Scizor if you can get it to switch into SR twice. Against Rotom, you really do have a use for Mystic Water, as you significantly help your chances of 2HKOing.

You still cover Salamence and Gyarados with that EV spread, which is always a good thing. However, do me a favor and check calculations of Thunderbolt on popular bulky waters and see how much power you lose from a lack of Expert Belt. I'd check the calcs but I have to leave now.
 
Looks a lot like anti-Lead Starmie to be honest (under the non choice attacking Starmie in the analysis). However, Mystic Water does give you some of the benefits of LO without the hit on your longevity, which is nice. However, all the things you mention are very easily achieved with Life Orb, so if you don't mind the recoil, Life Orb should be used instead. If you do mind the recoil, read on.

Well, I've taken a few quick calcs and this set has some merit on a few specific purposes. As far as Scizor goes, it's a 2HKO either way, but you do have a shot of OHKO ing Scizor if you can get it to switch into SR twice. Against Rotom, you really do have a use for Mystic Water, as you significantly help your chances of 2HKOing.

You still cover Salamence and Gyarados with that EV spread, which is always a good thing. However, do me a favor and check calculations of Thunderbolt on popular bulky waters and see how much power you lose from a lack of Expert Belt. I'd check the calcs but I have to leave now.

Thunderbolt does about 48% damage to standard Vaporeon. That's a two hits knock out after SR damage.

Also, like I said, Starmie can bluff holding a Mystic Water which nets it surprise kills occasionally. Expert Belt only does 30% damage when the hits are super effective, with Mystic Water, Hydro Pump will always hit hard.
 
Thunderbolt does about 48% damage to standard Vaporeon. That's a two hits knock out after SR damage.

Also, like I said, Starmie can bluff holding a Mystic Water which nets it surprise kills occasionally. Expert Belt only does 30% damage when the hits are super effective, with Mystic Water, Hydro Pump will always hit hard.


expert belt is 20%, not 30% also vaporeon always carry leftovers, so after those 2 turns the SR damage will be negated (also often carry wish and protect remember?)
 
expert belt is 20%, not 30% also vaporeon always carry leftovers, so after those 2 turns the SR damage will be negated (also often carry wish and protect remember?)
Yeah, that's right. Since Expert Belt is only 20%, I think Mystic Water is even more useful now. With Mystic Water, you can always count on Hydro Pump to deal as much damage as possible whether it's a super effective hit or not.

I don't rely entirely on Starmie to destroy Vaporeon. But 48% isn't too shabby at all. So unless Vaporeon's health is intact, it'll likely die to Starmie.
 
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Mightyena
Item:Focus sash
Ability:Intimidate
Nature: Hasty/Lonely
Moveset Name: Counter thief
Move 1: Counter
Move 2: Thief
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Protect/yawn/roar/superfang
Ev's: 6/252/0/0/0/252
IVs: 31/31/10 or lower/x/31/31

This set
Will hurt the enemy team depending on how you use it your guaranteed a KO on most pokemon but make sure there packing a physical attack or else you've just wasted your mightyena but if your using protect you can guarantee there carrying a physical attack but if your using yawn Roar or Super fang you can still have a useful pokemon that doesn't completely rely on his combo to work but If this works you KO one of there pokemon you steal an item from them and maybe have a chance of doing it again if you steal a focus sash
Note: you'll probably want a rapid spinner so theres not any entry hazards

Ev's: Pretty self explanatory you need the speed and attack to deal damage with thief and have a chance of going first

Iv's Def should be pretty low since with intimidate your going to be lowering there attack Sp attack won't matter at all since your not using any Sp Atks
 
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