np: UU - Can't Touch This

[Golden Sun]

Physical Toxicroak is honestly a "meh" rain check.

The special sets (i like specs, but the NPer works well) with Vacuum Wave are much better at that since it prays on the lower special defense of most rain dance sweepers and can actually bypass getting OHKO'd by Kabutops due to being able to snag it with V-Wave before it gets a chance to stone edge. V-Wave also stops Omastar well and Sludge Bomb hits the rest such as Ludicolo, Gorebyss etc hard and the only thing on Rain Dance teams that resists Poison/Fighting swift swimmer wise is pretty much Qwilfish who doesnt like Shadow Balls/Dark Pulses.

I've always liked the special set more then the physical and it is probably the best counter for RD there is possible. It can come in on the RDer (providing it's not Uxie) set up and have fun.

Vacuum wave gets an easy K.O on Kabutops and Omistar at +2. It can K.O qwilfish who can't do anything back other then explode. And ludicolo can't K.O whilst your at full H.P as you K.O back with sludge bomb. The only sweeper it has problem's with is Gorebyss.

 

[umbarsc]

Has anyone been trying SubPunch Encore Poliwrath as a rain counter? It sets up easily enough against some rain sweepers or Registeel, and once it gets behind a sub very little is going to like taking a Focus Punch. And if Uxie comes in on the sub, it can then be Encored and something like Raikou could set up. Seems plausible, but I would never want to use a Poliwrath outside of countering rain teams. However, it does have its uses, so it's worth thinking about.

 

[Heysup]

Has anyone been trying SubPunch Encore Poliwrath as a rain counter? It sets up easily enough against some rain sweepers or Registeel, and once it gets behind a sub very little is going to like taking a Focus Punch. And if Uxie comes in on the sub, it can then be Encored and something like Raikou could set up. Seems plausible, but I would never want to use a Poliwrath outside of countering rain teams. However, it does have its uses, so it's worth thinking about.

You could also use the slightly more viable SubPunch Encore Azumarill. This would probably be more useful outside of countering rain, though it would lose that all-important Water immunity. I'd still use Azumarill.

 

[Stagnant]

Between Cress, Porygon, and Rain Teams... it is almost impossible to run the teams like I used to... 1 Lead - 1 Random - 1 Special Wall - 1 Physical Wall - 1 Rapid Spinner - 1 Sweeper. Now you have to run 'dedicated' Pokemon in order to keep up with all this crap. I can see myself dropping out of the UU (/Pokemon) scene here in the nearby future. It was a good fun run...

 

[Heysup]

Between Cress, Porygon, and Rain Teams... it is almost impossible to run the teams like I used to... 1 Lead - 1 Random - 1 Special Wall - 1 Physical Wall - 1 Rapid Spinner - 1 Sweeper. Now you have to run 'dedicated' Pokemon in order to keep up with all this crap. I can see myself dropping out of the UU (/Pokemon) scene here in the nearby future. It was a good fun run...

This is why I'd say pure stall or pure offense works a million times better than balance in this metagame. There are too many threats for a balanced team to stop.

An offensive team can cover "everything" by simply revenge killing. Stall has the ability to cover all of its weaknesses. At least this is true for "good" teams.

 

[mite b cool]

I would say definitely not. Pinsir is more defensive than Scyther and lacks Scyther's Electric-And-Ice-Type weaknesses. I also find that a spinner, although helpful, is not completely necessary for Pinsir to work out, whereas it is, in my opinion, with Scyther. Mold Breaker is a bonus, and Earthquake is just an excellent attack to have.

Through testing of Scyther and Pinsir I have to say I'm liking Pinsir more, mainly because of mold breaker, and high attack stat, coupled with the fact it gets Earthquake to take on steel and rock types opposed to the weaker brick break, and it nailing Rotom with and Weezing with it is just awesome. its speed isnt great and it gets revenge killed easily, but its still enough to outspeed Venusaur, Absol, and Blaziken with a +nature which isn't that bad, also speed ties with Cress (dont know a Cress that runs max speed though)

I'm thourougly enjoying playing with Pinsir in this phase of the metagame

 

[Thund91]

This is why I'd say pure stall or pure offense works a million times better than balance in this metagame. There are too many threats for a balanced team to stop.

An offensive team can cover "everything" by simply revenge killing. Stall has the ability to cover all of its weaknesses. At least this is true for "good" teams.

My best team this round is a balance team. *shrugs*

 

[Smurf.]

Despite balance being slightly less effective due to the amount of threats, its definitely still viable. That said, what will happen once 5th gen comes out? there will simply be too many threats for any team to check.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

My best team this round is a balance team. *shrugs*

Yeah, balance rules at the moment as far as I'm concerned. This is the team I have won ~90% of my matches with this round:

Scarf Froslass (support)
Chansey (defensive)
Haze Milotic (defensive)
NP Toxicroak (offensive)
RP Aggron (offensive)
SubCM Cresselia (practically the definition of broken)

In fact, I'd say that pure stall is a bit less effective due to Porygon-Z, whilst pure offense is a bit less effective due to Cresselia.

That said, what will happen once 5th gen comes out? there will simply be too many threats for any team to check.

We have no idea what changes Gen 5 will bring yet. Gen 4 obviously introduced mainly offensive benefits, but who is to say that Gen 5 won't introduce mainly defensive benefits?

 

[Mattman324]

Despite balance being slightly less effective due to the amount of threats, its definitely still viable. That said, what will happen once 5th gen comes out? there will simply be too many threats for any team to check.

I seem to remember that in RBY Alakazam was almost impossible to check.

To put it simply, every generation, the bar for offense and defence is raised. Pokemon who cannot fit exact roles are shunted back (I bet that without Stealth Rock Azelf would be BL at this point), and those who can are always pushed forwards. Thus, when the metagame needed powerful priority (which it always does.) from a pokemon that doesn't fall in two or three hits, Scizor arose. I bet some of you never expected Scizor this high in OU, or something like Alakazam comfortably (as in, it won't move up or down) in UU.

Point is, things change. Yeah, there will be threats: but some current ones will be obselete.

 

[ToF]

Despite balance being slightly less effective due to the amount of threats, its definitely still viable. That said, what will happen once 5th gen comes out? there will simply be too many threats for any team to check.

Why the hell would we deal with gen 5 when the current 4th gen UU is so out of whack...

 

[pokemon yay]

I seem to remember that in RBY Alakazam was almost impossible to check.

To put it simply, every generation, the bar for offense and defence is raised. Pokemon who cannot fit exact roles are shunted back (I bet that without Stealth Rock Azelf would be BL at this point), and those who can are always pushed forwards. Thus, when the metagame needed powerful priority (which it always does.) from a pokemon that doesn't fall in two or three hits, Scizor arose. I bet some of you never expected Scizor this high in OU, or something like Alakazam comfortably (as in, it won't move up or down) in UU.

Point is, things change. Yeah, there will be threats: but some current ones will be obselete.

Mewtwo/Chansey was the domniant ones in RBY.

Azelf can Nasty Plot and has a decnet Physical movepool.

Your point really has nothing to do with what's being discussed.

 

[Yuggles]

I've been using an offense team focusing on special sweepers + Dugtrio taking out each others counters until one of them can sweep. It's been amazing, the only problem is a smart person using Spiritomb can wreck me. :/

 

[SJCrew]

I've been using an offense team focusing on special sweepers + Dugtrio taking out each others counters until one of them can sweep. It's been amazing, the only problem is a smart person using Spiritomb can wreck me. :/

This is why I'm so partial to CB Rhyperior. It's a non-negotiable OHKO or 2HKO on every wall and they either realize that and switch or attempt to do damage - which is usually futile either way. That's about the closest thing I have to a Spiritomb counter right now.

Right now, my team of choice is balance, which nets me a rating safely in the 1600s. I tried pure offense and pure stall, but neither worked and I ended up losing massive amounts of rating with poor results. ChanceCress is a wonder combo akin to OU's SkarmBliss; they sponge hits for each other very well, right up until the game comes down to the wire.

My biggest conundrum now is choosing Duggy or Rhyp. One takes massive amounts of punishments and takes down both walls and switchins with ease while Duggy takes out specific threats guaranteed. Using both wouldn't make much sense and would just lose coverage. I suppose more testing is in order.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Moltres probably works great for a Spiritomb on a team of special sweepers.

 

[Force Majeure]

I've been having a fairly good amount of success with a bulky Agility LO Porygon-Z in the past few days; I'm considering permanently putting it on my main team.

 

[M BLADE]

Oh well, i'm still winning 85% of the time with my now old NU team, but must say:

Registeel and Cresselia togehter is a pain to take out unless Dugtrio comes out and trap Registeel. The one i have most problems is Registeel... so much that i switched the Entei set to a bulky CM Sleeptalk set to let me handle it better.
Cresselia is likely to be Encored or badly poisoned against my team, so it's not really a nuisance.

Who i should use as a Pursuit trapper: Drapion or Skuntank?

 

[Garganator]

Who i should use as a Pursuit trapper: Drapion or Skuntank

Drapion is faster, helping him in outspeeding few things, which Skuntank can't. However, Skuntank has higher attack (not much, but always it's better), it's bulkier (which is good thing) and probably the most important advantage of Skuntank - Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch + Pursuit is perfect combination for trapping pokemon. Also it helps against few speedy opponents like Alakazam or Dugtrio. Specs Focus Blast from Alakazam 2OHKO even Specially defensive Drapion. With Skuntank it's typical mind game as it has SP. Also Dugtrio won't enjoy STAB Sucker Punch on his face. However disadvantage of Skuntank is lack of Earthquake to hit steels and it's forced to use Fire Blast from his average special attack. But I prefer a little bit more Skuntank, as his slightly higher bulk helps.

 

[M BLADE]

I think Skuntank is better too.
If the role of the poke is mainly to trap Mismagius/Alakazam and ghosts/psychics, Skuntank is better.
Mainly because 95% of those pokes are special minded, and Skuntank takes special attacks better than Drapion.


It survives a NP Thunderbolt from Mismagius unlike Drapion for example.

Drapion needs all the speed possible, meaning it normally has a Jolly nature, while Skuntank does not need to be Jolly, raising the atk difference between both.

Better yet, once it''s job is done Skuntank can Explode on whatever you need to(Milotic is one of the best targets for Exploding) without that many worries because the ghost was probably Pursuited to death by the same Skuntank.

Too bad Skuntank gives Aggron a chance to Rock Polish or Head Smash... and we all know how Aggron is after that...
But also Skuntank isn't going to automatically die after Dugtrio enters the field like Drapion. Unless your opponent plays smart(Subtrio and/or continuos Sucker Punch prediction), Skuntank actually will OHKO Dugtrio.


I believe that Drapion doesn't have any business Pursuiting things, as it will be likely a worse Skuntank. Drapion is better off laying Toxic Spikes and Whirlwinding things or trying to sweep.
If you just need a Pursuiter(for example if your team hates Mismagius or Alakazam, or even Specs Sceptile in a pinch), Skuntank is the better choice not only between those two, but of all the tier(UU).

That's what i believe.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Actually, even with an Adamant nature and no EV investment, if Skuntank is holding a Life Orb it is guaranteed to OHKO Aggron with HP Ground/Fighting if Stealth Rocks are up, dealing a minimum of 96.5%. It needs at least 60 EVs to guarantee it outspeeds Jolly Aggron, but that shouldn't hurt its bulkiness much. Plus, Dark + Fighting/Ground gets good coverage, although I'm not sure if it has much use against anything else. You can kill Toxicroak without Exploding (as long as it doesn't carry EQ), and HP Ground + Sucker Punch takes out Kabutops without Aqua Jet (two HP Ground kills guaranteed with Rocks, although you'll likely die from Waterfall).

 

[Godsend]

HP Ground seems VERY specific. I guess if you're just that scared of RP Aggron...

 

[M BLADE]

Actually, even with an Adamant nature and no EV investment, if Skuntank is holding a Life Orb it is guaranteed to OHKO Aggron with HP Ground/Fighting if Stealth Rocks are up, dealing a minimum of 96.5%. It needs at least 60 EVs to guarantee it outspeeds Jolly Aggron, but that shouldn't hurt it bulkiness much.

But then you won't have a strong reliable move. Sucker Punch is all about prediction, Pursuit is weak if the opponent doesn't switch out, and Explosion is basically a must have.

The best you can do is add something that can counter Aggron without sharing it's ground weak(so no Steelix)... Quagsire is good for that since it completely walls Aggron(well, it's probably the only thing that can counter Aggron 100% of the time regardless of the set). It also attracts grass pokes for Skuntank.

 

[MagicMaster87]

But then you won't have a strong reliable move. Sucker Punch is all about prediction, Pursuit is weak if the opponent doesn't switch out, and Explosion is basically a must have.

The best you can do is add something that can counter Aggron without sharing it's ground weak(so no Steelix)... Quagsire is good for that since it completely walls Aggron(well, it's probably the only thing that can counter Aggron 100% of the time regardless of the set). It also attracts grass pokes for Skuntank.

What move does Skuntank have that can fill the last slot, though? Crunch gives it only one type to attack with, meaning it's walled by all Fighters, opposing Darks, and especially Steels who you can't Explode on. Poison Jab gets STAB, but leaves you walled against Steels and won't hit anything in UU, Return has the same problem but without STAB, Iron Tail and Shadow Claw are even worse, and everything else isn't worth using (on the physical side at least).

 

[Godsend]

There are three bona fied UU steel types. Although they are somewhat common, they aren't really much to worry about. I think Poison Jab is a good move for the last slot to hit dark types for neutral damage and hitting the ever common grass types for super effective damage.

 

[Heysup]

My best team this round is a balance team. *shrugs*

Despite balance being slightly less effective due to the amount of threats, its definitely still viable. That said, what will happen once 5th gen comes out? there will simply be too many threats for any team to check.

Of course it can be viable. I was the one running offense in the Yanmega test :).

My point was that I personally find it easier to cover everything with offense or stall in particular. Not that I'd ever run stall.....ew.