Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

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cantab said:
There are quite a few lightweights in current OU. Rotom, Azelf, Jirachi, Shaymin (OK he's BL), and Celebi would all take 120 base power. Ninjask and Jolteon would take 100.

I reckon in terms of hitting current common OUs, as well as in general, Fire would be the best type. Flying might not be too bad either. The idea is to hit grass and bug, two types that are commonly lightweight, SE.

And of course it goes without saying that it would be REALLY good in Little Cup. Though there are some heavyweights in LC - Onix, Rhyhorn, and Munchlax would take very little, especially with resisting Fire.

It would in all cases need a Grass Knot like distribution though, since other moves are better when they're learnt.
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I'm not sure if Pokemon does this, but how a attack based on height/surface area.

For example, I'm sure all of you know that chemicals especially acids work better under greater surface area. So, say we had a tall pokemon (Tyranitar) compared to a smaller one (Aipom). How bout Gamefreak implement an attack based on how tall the monster is (Because there's no other accurate measure of surface area in the pokedex as far as I can see). It could be say a fire move that covers the whole body, or a poison move. Although there's already fire spin =/.

Just an idea.
 
reaverz said:
Someone pointed out something interesting to me. For the last two gens, we've had a flightless bird in each starter trio. And it's been in the same order that the first two of the commonly recognized "dragon-like" starter pattern was: Fire then Water. Could we be seeing a Grass starter that's a flightless bird this time around?

For those who don't know what I mean with "dragon-like" starter, it's that Charmander, Totodile, and Treecko all evolve to the point where they can learn Dragon Claw. Treecko's stature (two legged, dragon-like) was predicted by many before he was revealed. An avian Grass starter wouldn't be a surprise, I'd say.
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a flightless grass type bird, hmm? maybe based off a Kiwi? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi
 
Gen IV starters rock.
Empoleon ... *swoons*

On the subject of what animals you want to inspire Pokemon, I've become fond of the alligator snapping turtle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is0TW5C5m04

I know we have many turtle Pokemon but it'd make a pretty decent Water Dark.
Give it good defenses, nice attack, and Crunch, Waterfall and AquaJet for the lightning strike.
Probably give it an infuriating hax ability like the effect of Quick Claw so it can hit first sometimes anyway. :P

*Snapurt's Rapid Strike made it go first!*
*ragequit*

...or to be less evil, Extremespeed and a Technician, STAB boosted Aquajet plus Swords Dance.
 
Scuba Stevee said:
Yeah Venusaur being #1 on the uu usage chart makes him a piece of "beta shit". Really all the starters are pretty good in their own way, but compare to were they are placed, the 2nd gen. starters are the worse.
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veno is the top used because he can do a lot of things, he is pretty much overrated to tell the true, i never had any problems with him, he is too slow to sweep, its atack is not high enough, its movepool is not good enough either, having STAB moves and stuff like return and EQ(its not even that good on him anyway) and on the special side he get STAB moves and HP, i consider him beta shit all right because besides meganium he is the worst starter. all he can do is put shit to sleep and wall random eletric types. also there is no such as they being good on they own way, just look at charizard and typhosion! if was not by belly drum(its not even that good on charizard) they would be doing the exactly same thing.

i also want you to remember that usage dont mean power, scizor is the most used in OU, but that is because he can do multple stuff, not because he is powerful by any means, he can trap with pursuit, scout with u-turn, revenge kill with BP, etc etc etc. veno can put to sleep, wall eletric types, beat the bulky waters in UU, they can do a lot of stuff but are not really powerful.
 
Lucalibur said:
veno is the top used because he can do a lot of things, he is pretty much overrated to tell the true, i never had any problems with him, he is too slow to sweep, its atack is not high enough, its movepool is not good enough either, having STAB moves and stuff like return and EQ(its not even that good on him anyway) and on the special side he get STAB moves and HP, i consider him beta shit all right because besides meganium he is the worst starter. all he can do is put shit to sleep and wall random eletric types. also there is no such as they being good on they own way, just look at charizard and typhosion! if was not by belly drum(its not even that good on charizard) they would be doing the exactly same thing.

i also want you to remember that usage dont mean power, scizor is the most used in OU, but that is because he can do multple stuff, not because he is powerful by any means, he can trap with pursuit, scout with u-turn, revenge kill with BP, etc etc etc. veno can put to sleep, wall eletric types, beat the bulky waters in UU, they can do a lot of stuff but are not really powerful.
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Venusaur has a reliable sleeping technique. He can go either Physical or Special to throw off walls. He is a fairly speedy Grass type that doesn't have to rely on the Sun in order to acheieve his speed. He can pull off a tanking set, he has great moves in things like Power Whip. He can boost up with Swords Dance. Venusaur can do a great many things.

You just need to stop focusing on all the negative and look at what you can do with a starter. Hell, even MEGANIUM can be useful at times. It's actually a reliable screens user in my opinion. You need to just open your eyes. Scizor's a bit overrated in my opinion anyway. It's completely predictable and easily worked around.

In short, I think the starters are generally great, it's just how you choose to use them. You should just stop being a little trolling git.
 
little...trolling...git? what the....sigh, scizor AND veno are overrated, has i said, both can do a lot of stuff, but are not powerful, before gen 4 starters were never made to be competitive viable, the fact veno got his hands on power whip in gen 4 is the reason people use him so much, he was not used that much before getting his hands on power whip since the move opened the path to the SD and mixed set, even with SD he lack power to tell the true, all he can beat is water, rock and ground types because even steel types can take his EQ, also i dont consider 75% accuracy very reliable for a sleeping move, and power whip accuracy is not perfect either(youy might want to try seed bomb?), he is not really fast, the fact grass types are slow most of the time is what give the impression he is fast when compared to others. at least those normal grass pokes can reach more then 400 speed on the sun. maybe i am trying to make him look more shitty then he is, but he is not great has you say he is either.

i am going to put it short:he is a jack of all trades, master of none. once you see a SD or a sludge bomb, you will know the set and have a very easy time dealing with.
 
Lucalibur said:
little...trolling...git? what the....sigh, scizor AND veno are overrated, has i said, both can do a lot of stuff, but are not powerful, before gen 4 starters were never made to be competitive viable, the fact veno got his hands on power whip in gen 4 is the reason people use him so much, he was not used that much before getting his hands on power whip since the move opened the path to the SD and mixed set, even with SD he lack power to tell the true, all he can beat is water, rock and ground types because even steel types can take his EQ, also i dont consider 75% accuracy very reliable for a sleeping move, and power whip accuracy is not perfect either(youy might want to try seed bomb?), he is not really fast, the fact grass types are slow most of the time is what give the impression he is fast when compared to others. at least those normal grass pokes can reach more then 400 speed on the sun. maybe i am trying to make him look more shitty then he is, but he is not great has you say he is either.

i am going to put it short:he is a jack of all trades, master of none. once you see a SD or a sludge bomb, you will know the set and have a very easy time dealing with.
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only just

+2 EQ from standerd LO physical venu is doing 80.2% - 94.5%to standerd registeel

and even without the boosts its doing 40.1% - 47.8% which registeel(the main steel in UU cant take too many of those
 
EQ, speed powder, power whip and SD=moveslot syndrome, he get walled by moltres, i got a little carried away on the EQ thing, also remember that life orb SD veno cant take a beating, so its not hard to stop him. (btw remember standard registeel dont invest a lot in defense, it prefer a careful nature and special defense evs), has i said i made veno look worst then he is, but he is not great to the point of being a awesome pokemon. he is exactly like scizor.
 
Most of the Gen IV starters are epic but the others aren't that bad at all.
Swampert is awesome while Blastoise is a usable Rapid Spinner/Wall.
Blaziken is not bad just outclassed by Infernape (and Feraligatr by Gyarados) while the other Fire starters have to contend with SR weaknesses.
The Grass ones suffer a bit by virtue of being Grass Types which makes Venusaur's relative success all the more notable.
 
Scuba Stevee said:
Yeah Venusaur being #1 on the uu usage chart makes him a piece of "beta shit". Really all the starters are pretty good in their own way, but compare to were they are placed, the 2nd gen. starters are the worse.
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And just as Gyara found its fangs, Roselia found its evolution.

Venusaur is only the UU Scizor because Roserade left, just as Flygon is out of BL-land because 'Chomp left. If for some reason Gyara receives a Water-type Megahorn, a Dark-type Megahorn, and Volt Tackle (making it more BROKENZORZ than 'Chomp,) then I am certain Feraligatr will rise to the occasion (unless Floatzel gets a half-arsed movepool itself.)

So in terms of good starters (in Gens III and IV)...

OVER 9000!!!!!
Infernape (...duh?)

S-Rank:
Empoleon
Swampert
Sceptile (My favorite Hoenn starter anyway, fast with Leech seed and good special attacks. If Game Freak announces TerraRuby and HydroSapphire, I'm picking this thing and renaming my Smogon name "Scep+(four letters from the fire starter's final form's name)+(four letters from the water starter's final form's name)".)

A-Rank
Feraligatr (the only decent Johto movepool with Water, Normal, Ice, Dark, and Dragon at least, and it gets the much-appreciated Surf and later Waterfall [conveniently when you hit the Move Deleter,] though the Red Gyara is the only reason this thing isn't S-Rank...)

B-Rank
Torterra (STAB EQ in-game by level-up is always appreciated)
Venusaur
Blaziken (alright, it's powerful, if a bit slower than Ape, and it still gets a half-decent level-up pool.)

C-Rank
Typhlosion
Blastoise (I find your lack of level-up moves disturbing, though your defenses prove valuable)

F-Rank
Charizard (hai guyz letz make something that isn't even a good NU and is nigh completely outclassed by Moltres! Since Moltres is a legend anyway, it's not like they'll use that over him! Right? Right?)
Meganium (...Status-er, poor STAB anyway, cannot do a thing against Koga, Victreebel beats out this thing to be quite honest)

Hopes for Gen V starters:

-Something based on a nonvertebrate. It's about time we got a silverfish Pokemon...heck owning stuff with a lobster evolved from a shrimp that evolved from the silverfish that doesn't look like it went through a limb splicing machine before it hit OU would be AWESOME.
-A Grass starter that makes OU for multiple gens. Bonus points if Celebi is forced into BL with its brother Shaymin-L as a result of this starter. Sceptile doesn't count: "OU in Gen III" doesn't mean anything.
-Something other than Fire/Fighting. Preferably not Fire/Rock (though I'd LOVE to see that on a base 165 speed fossil Pokemon based on a Creodonts...yeah shameless plug for my Prymal fakemon,) but a Fire/Ghost WOULD prove to be awesome due to Ghost's inherent badassery as a typing...
-I WANT A QUADRUPEDAL FIRE STARTER. CYNDAQUIL LINE DOESN'T COUNT.
-WATER AND FIRE STARTER FINAL FORMS WITH A DECENTLY-RIPPABLE FOUR-LETTER GROUP IN THEIR NAMES FOR ME TO USE IN MY USERNAME.
 
cantab said:
Chikorita is I think the single worst starter. It's not good in competitive, grass is the weakest type-wise, for ingame purposes it has a dreadful movepool (at least in GSC) and poor stats, and to top it all it has the early game disadvantage, being weak against the first two gyms.
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I agree completely even though I think it's the cutest starter of all time(not it's evolutions.

I don't know what to expect from the 5th generation starters, perhaps following in the lines of a pseudo-bird type grass starter( Torchic, Piplup). That'd be pretty awesome :o
 
evolutia said:
I agree completely even though I think it's the cutest starter of all time(not it's evolutions.

I don't know what to expect from the 5th generation starters, perhaps following in the lines of a pseudo-bird type grass starter( Torchic, Piplup). That'd be pretty awesome :o
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Piplup says hi.


For the starters I would like to see a quadrupedal water type pokemon, or a no limbed starter.
 
I would also like a better Fire starter typing. I was actually hoping for a more defensive Fire type, but, as someone mentioned much earlier, Fire isn't really a 'defensive' type, which I can understand. But we've had two straight generations with Fire/Fighting. How about something else please?
 
Tortferngatr said:
-I WANT A QUADRUPEDAL FIRE STARTER. CYNDAQUIL LINE DOESN'T COUNT.
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OMG FIREDARK TIGERFTW!!! OVAR 9000!!111!!!111!!111!111elev1en11111!!!!!

...But srsly, a Fire/Dark Tiger would be the coolest thing since forever.

EDIT: AND it'd mean we get an obscenely cute kitten for stage 1 form.
 
Speaking of Chikorita, i've been wondering since i was 6, what the hell is it? like a dinosaur/plant/thing?
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Imagine Chikorita, but remove everything an inch below the buds on it's neck....That was Chikorita's original design. lol

It's probably a Sauropod w/ a leaf on it's head.....AKA the long necked dinosaurs, just half the size

Chikorita is my second favorite starter, behind Charmander. Each starter has it's purpose, but many are usually outclassed by other Pokemon or completely crippled by something common.

Piplup says hi.
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No it doesn't.


It's cute and cool, but doesn't match up to Chikorita.

lol How can you say no to this
Spr_4h_152_s.png



a dinosaur poisonous plant thing that look so cute.
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That would be Bulbasaur........





Before the Grass Knot opposite subject dies, I think they should make it a ghost type. That way, a Pokemon who gets Low Kick and this new attack will not only have unresistant coverage, but can hit just about everything hard.
 
WarriorPrince said:
I would like to see the starters end up like this:

Grass: Final evo is dual type with Steel [Resists 10 types including Rock] An armored reptile

Fire: Final evo is dual typed with Dragon [Only Heatran resists this combo] A fiery reptile or reptile that breathes fire

Water: Final evo is dual typed with Electric [Only Grass & Dragons resist this combo and Ice Beam will take care of them] An
amphibian/reptile/insert aquatic creature here with electrical properties

All of them would more than likely be very effective in whichever metagame they ended up in.
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Grass / Steel I can see. If it got thick fat, it would be godly . . .

Fire / Dragon is not something we're likely to see, even less likely on a starter. Fire / Dragon is near-perfect STAB coverage, something GF has always been extremely stingy with (you can count the number of fully evolved pokemon with near-perfect STAB on your fingers).

Water / Electric also seems something they're really stingy with, but it could happen. After all, Water/Ground is one of the better type comboes in the game and they gave it to swampert.
 
Looking at Chikorita, I'll agree with Rein that it looks like a sauropod.

As for the starters, I'm hoping for the duel typing to go like

Grass/Steel
Fire/Electric or Fire/Ground
Water/Ghost
 
Fire/Electric is really awesome typing. It has only 3 weaknesses and 7 resists (including Steelx4 and also Bug, so it walls Scizor really well). It also has great super effective STAB coverage (Steel, Water, I mean it's not news that these are great attacking types) and excellent neutral coverage, walled only by Swampert, Latias, and Flygon in OU. Give it a mixture of offense and bulk, maybe a spread similar to Swampert or Empoleon, and this could be a really fun and different Fire-type starter.
 
I don't see a grass starter hitting high OU any ime soon. Grass is such a shitty, unnecessary typing that it's gotta be fucking GODLY or BROKEN in some aspect to get there.

To be that good, you pretty much need at LEAST 600 BST . . . or Spore on top of other good shit . . .

I'd actually like to see Grass/Electric. Fair STAB coverage, only 4 weaknesses and a number of useful resistances-- also with the capacity to wipe out EVERY water type (killing water is grass' only real purpose for even being included on an OU team).

Too bad there's no good 3rd move to round out the coverage. Ice comes closest but still has issues with Steel Types (Magnezone).
 
lol. Sleep is what Grass types live for. That, and Sunny Day.

Maybe 110 Speed w/ Sleep Powder. Maybe Spore, but it's broken even on Breloom and manages to put Parasect in Ubers occasionally......

Most good sleep Pokemon are Grass types....Mainly b/c Sleep Powder and Spore are much better than Hypnosis....

Maybe Grass type Walrein w/ good defensive typing (hopefully no 4x weaknesses), good defenses, great HP (enough for 101 Subs), and the ability to abuse Subseed. Then they might as well break it and give it an ability that restores health in the sun as much as Poison Heal (not Poison Heal itself b/c that means no Leftovers b/c you would need Toxic Orb). Then you just need a non-uber Pokemon w/ Drought.

Maybe a Physical Fire/Grass type w/ 80-100 Speed and Chlorophyll. Make it physical and can learn Power Whip/Seed Bomb + Flare Blitz, as well as Synthesis. That way it abuses all of Sun's spoils, even Cherrim's Flower Gift Ability.

These would put Sun teams on bar w/ Rain ones.

I am actually really hoping for an Ice/Electric or Fighting/Ghost w/ Aura Sphere to abuse the great coverage via STAB.
 
If they made soft sort of Grass type pokemon with an ability like Swift Swim (If they can get it in the sun, they can get it in the rain too. They need both to survive and whatnot), It would make a good addition to Rain Dance teams, without the need of super-duper BST.

Also, good secondary typing and movepool is a godsend for them. When it boils down to it, the only reason Grass type is SO BAD (Not just bad in general) is because most of the pokemon are just not good enough. Look at Breloom, he does just fine with sub/spore. Venasaur dominates UU. Celebi, despite being even worse typing than just grass, finds a way to play past those weaknesses (Even if it was a little less than 600 BST, it would still be viable considering the movepool and the way it's used).

I say we need better Grass Pokemon. None of this beginning of the game shit that half of them are forced to be.

@Res Ipsa Loquitur: Yeah, it would be a very viable and fun type to play with. The only real big downside is the x4 Ground weakness, but other than that, seems like something GF might want to give us....Please.
 
But typing-wise grass is poor. Offensively it's godawful, I think it's the worst. Defensively it's a bit better, but still mediocre, with more weaknesses than resistances. There's no particularly good type to pair with in terms of offensive coverage or lack of weaknesses. Good grass-types are going to be good DESPITE their typing not because of it, and are likely to benefit more from the typical support moves than from grass attacks.
 
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