-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Salamence is Uber.
- Thread starter Curtains
- Start date
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
People will try stall, but it really depends on player skill. The upper leaderboards will be Wallbreakers vs. Stall, but below that, the metagame will be full of people trying UU/BL Pokemon like Shaymin, Uxie, or Staraptor out, but they still won't really be good enough.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Nah. Wallbreakers will still be around. MixApe will see more play, and Weavile/Mamoswine will see much more play than before to Ice Shard Scarfgon and break walls.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Everything it countered. Heatran and grass-types, really. Lucario will also see a lot more play, it didn't really have a way to stop Salamence from getting a free Dragon Dance.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
N/A, I wasn't really paying much attention. :p
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Totally underpowered from my experience.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Salamence counters. Scarfgon, Jolteon, and
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Shaymin, if anything.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
No! I've never had any trouble dealing with Salamence and so many fast pokemon are able to use ice-type attacks thanks to Hidden Power that it's completely beatable. Pokemon Black and White are coming soon, and I think that would have been a good time to evaluate/push up Salamence IMO.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Salamence already sees some play in Ubers, but I don't think this will push it's usage. It's always been outclassed by Rayquaza, and as the Analysis suggests, it's only really good enough in ubers with Rayquaza support. As I mentioned before, it's totally beatable in OU. Hell, anything with Ice Shard basically OHKO's.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
If anything, Heatran, followed by Celebi/Jirachi. Celetran usage is going to go way up, and Heatran is really so flexible as well as Celebi and Jirachi that IMO they deserve more of a suspect test than Mence.
People will try stall, but it really depends on player skill. The upper leaderboards will be Wallbreakers vs. Stall, but below that, the metagame will be full of people trying UU/BL Pokemon like Shaymin, Uxie, or Staraptor out, but they still won't really be good enough.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Nah. Wallbreakers will still be around. MixApe will see more play, and Weavile/Mamoswine will see much more play than before to Ice Shard Scarfgon and break walls.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Everything it countered. Heatran and grass-types, really. Lucario will also see a lot more play, it didn't really have a way to stop Salamence from getting a free Dragon Dance.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
N/A, I wasn't really paying much attention. :p
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Totally underpowered from my experience.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Salamence counters. Scarfgon, Jolteon, and
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Shaymin, if anything.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
No! I've never had any trouble dealing with Salamence and so many fast pokemon are able to use ice-type attacks thanks to Hidden Power that it's completely beatable. Pokemon Black and White are coming soon, and I think that would have been a good time to evaluate/push up Salamence IMO.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Salamence already sees some play in Ubers, but I don't think this will push it's usage. It's always been outclassed by Rayquaza, and as the Analysis suggests, it's only really good enough in ubers with Rayquaza support. As I mentioned before, it's totally beatable in OU. Hell, anything with Ice Shard basically OHKO's.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
If anything, Heatran, followed by Celebi/Jirachi. Celetran usage is going to go way up, and Heatran is really so flexible as well as Celebi and Jirachi that IMO they deserve more of a suspect test than Mence.
Please don't go after Dragonite next Y_Y
I didn't agree with the banning of Salamence, even though I did have problems with it sometimes, and despite the fact that I don't like it enough to use it, but hey, that doesn't mean I want to get rid of the thing.
This is actually the first time I don't agree with a ban.
I didn't agree with the banning of Salamence, even though I did have problems with it sometimes, and despite the fact that I don't like it enough to use it, but hey, that doesn't mean I want to get rid of the thing.
This is actually the first time I don't agree with a ban.
Chomp has Scarf to always outspeed, or it can be the setup sweeper set. Wobb can Encore Earthquake or setup move, and let Mence come in safely. DD once, Chomp switches out and the pokemon coming in dies. Unless Chomp has Scarf, it can't come back in to revenge Mence.
That scenario is all too common in Ubers.
I've been on the fence about it, but I can see why it was banned. I've seen what it can do in both Ubers and OU (though performance in Ubers doesn't affect OU), and it can absolutely DESTROY teams in Ubers. Wobbuffet is the only reason it can do that though.
As far as Dragonite - it won't be banned. It's powerful in its own right, but it has one thing going against it - the base speed. I do like using it though, and it makes for an excellent anti-lead.
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
More fire/water/grass cores will be used and make the metagame less varied.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
No but it will be stronger
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite, Flygon, Celebi, Shaymin
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Pretty indiferent to it
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
It does alright I guess. I don't play Ubers so I don't know.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Scizor definitely
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Shaymin, Venusaur, Uxie
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
No because its not Uber material.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Because its not overpowering to the point where you have to overprepare for it.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Jirachi or Heatran I guess
More fire/water/grass cores will be used and make the metagame less varied.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
No but it will be stronger
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite, Flygon, Celebi, Shaymin
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Pretty indiferent to it
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
It does alright I guess. I don't play Ubers so I don't know.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Scizor definitely
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Shaymin, Venusaur, Uxie
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
No because its not Uber material.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Because its not overpowering to the point where you have to overprepare for it.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Jirachi or Heatran I guess
I'd just like to post noting it's most amusing seeing more than 80% of the people posting in this thread complaining about how Mence shouldn't have been banned but are not giving any examples or arguements on why.
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Dragonite does the offense. More Gyarados, too.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Stall will always suck.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Breloom won't be stopped by anything.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Bull****
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Could have a chance in VGC-like environments, where Intimidate is a big selling point.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
No real reason to use Mamoswine anymore, at least outside of Gravity. (yeah, I know it was rare already.) Some Steel types will work differently. I will reconsider Ice Punch on my Metagross...
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
I don't think that changes that much.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Last chance. At least we get to try a menceless metagame before BW come around...
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
The amount of ridiculousness it causes. I mean, seriously. While I can somehow understand why people want to allow Superlegendaries to be allowed for OU, I can by no means understand why people want normal pokemon to be banned to Ubers....
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose
Jirachi, Celebi, Shaymin. In that order. Old School gamer here.
Dragonite does the offense. More Gyarados, too.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Stall will always suck.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Breloom won't be stopped by anything.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Bull****
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Could have a chance in VGC-like environments, where Intimidate is a big selling point.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
No real reason to use Mamoswine anymore, at least outside of Gravity. (yeah, I know it was rare already.) Some Steel types will work differently. I will reconsider Ice Punch on my Metagross...
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
I don't think that changes that much.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Last chance. At least we get to try a menceless metagame before BW come around...
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
The amount of ridiculousness it causes. I mean, seriously. While I can somehow understand why people want to allow Superlegendaries to be allowed for OU, I can by no means understand why people want normal pokemon to be banned to Ubers....
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose
Jirachi, Celebi, Shaymin. In that order. Old School gamer here.
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
The return of a Grass-Water-Fire cores, less steels, and less ice-type attackers.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
No, but one would predict it to be more common.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Tran, Dragonite
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Much more efficent, time-wise, but is most likely less reliable.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Just how is this relevant? It will be paired with Rayquaza like it always was.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Weavile, Mamoswine, Scizor, the other steels to some extent aswell.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Uxie, although he/she had it coming anyway. Shaymin
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Yes.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It was, considering that it was unanimously considered the best attacker in OU.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Breloom.
The return of a Grass-Water-Fire cores, less steels, and less ice-type attackers.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
No, but one would predict it to be more common.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Tran, Dragonite
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Much more efficent, time-wise, but is most likely less reliable.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Just how is this relevant? It will be paired with Rayquaza like it always was.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Weavile, Mamoswine, Scizor, the other steels to some extent aswell.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Uxie, although he/she had it coming anyway. Shaymin
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Yes.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It was, considering that it was unanimously considered the best attacker in OU.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Breloom.
I only just learned about this ban a few minutes ago, and I only have a few minutes to really contemplate the changes. I could be wrong, but I could definitely see the use of Choice Scarf Revenge Killers increasing. With 1 DD under Salamence's belt combined with base 100 speed, the best you could really hope for was a ScarfRachi/Scarf Flygon speed tie for the KO. Dragonite and Gyarados (base 80 and 81 speed respectively), if they are limited to 1 DD, are all outsped by the revenge killers provided they come in on the switch.
In short, Dragon Dance's usage as a move will go down, as anyone could predict. Choice Scarf base 80 speed and up will become a safer bet for revenge killing, and could therefore increase in usage. Scizor usage will probably decline, as Bullet Punch is no longer needed as an emergency stop for Mence (although Scizor's excellence doesn't stop with Salamence).
In short, Dragon Dance's usage as a move will go down, as anyone could predict. Choice Scarf base 80 speed and up will become a safer bet for revenge killing, and could therefore increase in usage. Scizor usage will probably decline, as Bullet Punch is no longer needed as an emergency stop for Mence (although Scizor's excellence doesn't stop with Salamence).
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Since i difnt played much suspect i cant say much to that, but my prediction is that Heatran will be #1 and scizor will fall a bit(not that much because he is still great), but i dont think the metagame will change too much it wasnt centralized around salamence so there will be changes but it wont be flipped upside down.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
As dominant as ever.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite will be used as a replacement and his usage will go up, but he will soon fall down after that when ppl see that he just isnt that good as mence when it comes to sheer power.
Flygon will see some more use outside of being a choiced scout, but wont rise that much too.
Shaymin could rise, but i doubt since ppl just dont seem to like him
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
as many mentioned it was fast, nothing more
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
the same he did there before being voted to uber, helping rayquaza to sweep but i dont play uber so i dont really know/care much about that.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Weavile/Mamo maybe
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
no idea as i said i dont think salamence banning will change the meta much
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
i dont know if time really matters in that case
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Because of its massive offensive power, but i really dont know if he should really be uber he was quite okay in ou
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Nothing, maybe dragonite if he would prove to be as broken as mence but i highly doubt that.
Since i difnt played much suspect i cant say much to that, but my prediction is that Heatran will be #1 and scizor will fall a bit(not that much because he is still great), but i dont think the metagame will change too much it wasnt centralized around salamence so there will be changes but it wont be flipped upside down.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
As dominant as ever.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite will be used as a replacement and his usage will go up, but he will soon fall down after that when ppl see that he just isnt that good as mence when it comes to sheer power.
Flygon will see some more use outside of being a choiced scout, but wont rise that much too.
Shaymin could rise, but i doubt since ppl just dont seem to like him
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
as many mentioned it was fast, nothing more
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
the same he did there before being voted to uber, helping rayquaza to sweep but i dont play uber so i dont really know/care much about that.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Weavile/Mamo maybe
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
no idea as i said i dont think salamence banning will change the meta much
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
i dont know if time really matters in that case
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Because of its massive offensive power, but i really dont know if he should really be uber he was quite okay in ou
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Nothing, maybe dragonite if he would prove to be as broken as mence but i highly doubt that.
I haven't really been following this discussion until I saw that mence had actually been banned, so forgive me if this is really obvious... Does this vote really matter? Gen 5 starts September 18th, right? I can only assume Game Freak intends to flip the metagame on it's head, like from Gen 3 to 4. Clearly discussion about OU in the long run or future bans is pretty silly in the face of a whole new roster of pokemon coming in a couple of weeks...
The ignorance in this statement...
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
More Grass/Fire/Water cores rather than the ever so common Dragon-Steel cores.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Not in the slightest, Infernape demolishes Stall. like knife butter.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Heatran, Shaymin, Sceptile
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
I think it went the way it always goes. testing-choosing players to vote-discuss-vote.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Salamence is pretty good in Ubers, what sets it apart from Rayquaza is Intimidate, which is most certainly helpful.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Scizor
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
Sceptile, Uxie, Venusaur
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
I think it was the perfect time.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It didn't have any counters, barring ScarfCune and ScarfCress, it broke through teams with little or no effort, it centralized the metagame, etc.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Heatran. Heatran because, based on Suspect usage, it overcentralizes.
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Pokemon like Ape and Heatran will rise in usage.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
lol no.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite mostly.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Bullshit.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Who cares?
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Scizor.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
No idea.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Nope.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
He is too weak for ubers, only people that had a problem were stall teams.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
NONE.
Pokemon like Ape and Heatran will rise in usage.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
lol no.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Dragonite mostly.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
Bullshit.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
Who cares?
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Scizor.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
No idea.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
Nope.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
He is too weak for ubers, only people that had a problem were stall teams.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
NONE.
Do you plan to stop playing till September then? that's still a pretty long time to wait.
Thought I would write this because I'm bored. Left some out because didn't feel like answering.
Answering my own questions:
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
A lot. A ton of more hidden threats in the metagame will finally show up like LO flygon. Teams will have to pack a ape counter. HP electric ape or Tpunch ape will rise. Starmie will be top 3.Tyranitar will rise again. With the "FGW core" people are talking about dragon dance t-tar can handle them. Might lead to a showing up of chople berry t-tar. A lot of creativity will be seen in the final months of Diamond and Pearl.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Yes indeed. Rest talk gyarados + skarm(forry) + bliss + rotom + 2 filler will be huge. This makes Crocune a beast now.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Breloom says hi guise finally. But zapdos and CM rachi are still solid counters to breloom after he puts something to sleep. Dragonite and flygon are obvious choices.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
It was lame to be honest. Most of the "qualified" people were all either moderators or very well known and badged members. Like someone else said it makes the regular member feel uninvolved in the method.We might as well just had a separate ladder formods and let them figure everything out. The way to become a voter was really pointless because if you don't/didn't have the name recognition then its no way you were going to vote no matter how good your shoddy rating was. The process was flawed. The paragraphs or logs of the chat should be made public to the members. The other test for latias was better because it was more voters,multiple stages for testing, paragraphs in the forum for the users to see and just a better system for changing the game. Salamence testing was like "eh draco meteor, lets get some mods and chat it up and vote" It wasn't thorough enough.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
it can survive nicely there are a ton of counters though.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Mostly stuff like scizor because of stuff like heatran going through the roof. magnezone really doesn't have a purpose synergy wise because celebi and heatran say hi with earth power and fire blast respectively .Weavile will not go down in use if players are smart. Weavile is a decent counter to the CeleTran combo. Hmm and i think scarfed ice attackers will see a decrease. Scarf flygon will plummet. I can see an expert belt flygon coming up in usage.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
shaymin...Period.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
yeah what ever.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It was but we got used to salamence so it made it hard for people to think it was uber without arguement. Its versatility is what made it suspect.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Hmm hypothetically infernape maybe , but nothing is really broken anymore.
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
A lot. A ton of more hidden threats in the metagame will finally show up like LO flygon. Teams will have to pack a ape counter. HP electric ape or Tpunch ape will rise. Starmie will be top 3.Tyranitar will rise again. With the "FGW core" people are talking about dragon dance t-tar can handle them. Might lead to a showing up of chople berry t-tar. A lot of creativity will be seen in the final months of Diamond and Pearl.
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Yes indeed. Rest talk gyarados + skarm(forry) + bliss + rotom + 2 filler will be huge. This makes Crocune a beast now.
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Breloom says hi guise finally. But zapdos and CM rachi are still solid counters to breloom after he puts something to sleep. Dragonite and flygon are obvious choices.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
It was lame to be honest. Most of the "qualified" people were all either moderators or very well known and badged members. Like someone else said it makes the regular member feel uninvolved in the method.We might as well just had a separate ladder formods and let them figure everything out. The way to become a voter was really pointless because if you don't/didn't have the name recognition then its no way you were going to vote no matter how good your shoddy rating was. The process was flawed. The paragraphs or logs of the chat should be made public to the members. The other test for latias was better because it was more voters,multiple stages for testing, paragraphs in the forum for the users to see and just a better system for changing the game. Salamence testing was like "eh draco meteor, lets get some mods and chat it up and vote" It wasn't thorough enough.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
it can survive nicely there are a ton of counters though.
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
Mostly stuff like scizor because of stuff like heatran going through the roof. magnezone really doesn't have a purpose synergy wise because celebi and heatran say hi with earth power and fire blast respectively .Weavile will not go down in use if players are smart. Weavile is a decent counter to the CeleTran combo. Hmm and i think scarfed ice attackers will see a decrease. Scarf flygon will plummet. I can see an expert belt flygon coming up in usage.
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
shaymin...Period.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
yeah what ever.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
It was but we got used to salamence so it made it hard for people to think it was uber without arguement. Its versatility is what made it suspect.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
Hmm hypothetically infernape maybe , but nothing is really broken anymore.
This does not need to be an arguement thread. That other thread before the voting process was a conglomeration of mess.And if he does not want to make 2 paragraphs worth of text why is that a problem. The banning of Salamence was about as confusing as calculus, because its all about personal play styles.
If you actually played the Suspect ladder, you would have noticed that after the first week or so that the metagame eventually settled down and that most teams were, in fact, offensive and that it was much more balanced without having to build your entire team around countering Salamence.
Discussion for salamence to ubers-
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Greater team diversity, more FGW cores, lesser need to have Steels on the team (so people can get away with only one Steel now)
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Absolutely not. Even in Suspect, where the players were generally better, stall was still far less common than offense
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Naturally, Dragonite and Kingdra usage will go up. Grass types in general should be more popular now, too.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
I like the Council idea. I think the next issue for Policy Review to work on (that I believe they are actually working on) is speeding up the process so that next generation, we aren't still testing suspects by the time the news of Gen 6 has arrived.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
I don't play much Ubers, but I hear we works well with Rayquaza
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
SCIZOR. The main reason I feel that Scizor has been so rock-solid in usage is because of his ability to take an Outrage and revenge kill Mence with Bullet Punch. No Mence = fewer Scizor, just like in Suspect
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
I don't think this is a serious issue. Nothing in the lower end of UU is known for taking on Salamence, but if anything, seeing Salamence gone will keep some things in OU with one of the top ten going into Uber.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
I don't see any other time to do it. I feel that it should have been done sooner, though. Latias, to me, is far less Uber than Salamence, but without Latias to outspeed Mence, I feel that the metagame is just not balanced with him in it anymore.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Salamence has no counters. It's been said time and time again and not once in the Mence discussion thread have I read anything to make me believe the contrary. Once there's a bulky Steel with Ice Shard, things may be different, though.
A Salamence player with good prediction = good game. If the Salamence user knows the opponents team, even Scizor can't safely switch in in fear of Fire Blast. Hell, Bulky Mence only takes about 40% from Bullet Punch, anyway.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
What from I've read in the Policy Review forum and in #stark, the next suspect test will be on Clauses, namely Species, Evasion, and OHKO Clauses. Nobody thinks that they'll necessarily be allowed, but it's mostly just a fun thing to test to see its effects on the metagame.
Personally, I'd test Blissey (under the Defensive Characteristic). Blissey centralizes the metagame in that special sweepers just aren't as viable in this metagame with Blissey to wall them all day. I think a metagame without Blissey would be very test-worthy.
__________________
Discussion for salamence to ubers-
1.How will salamence's removal effect the metagame?
Greater team diversity, more FGW cores, lesser need to have Steels on the team (so people can get away with only one Steel now)
2.Will stall be a dominant force?
Absolutely not. Even in Suspect, where the players were generally better, stall was still far less common than offense
3.What pokemon stand out as a pokemon that thrives without salamence?
Naturally, Dragonite and Kingdra usage will go up. Grass types in general should be more popular now, too.
4.What did you think of the process for salamence removal?
I like the Council idea. I think the next issue for Policy Review to work on (that I believe they are actually working on) is speeding up the process so that next generation, we aren't still testing suspects by the time the news of Gen 6 has arrived.
5.How does Salamence do in ubers?
I don't play much Ubers, but I hear we works well with Rayquaza
6.What pokemon will see a decrease in use?
SCIZOR. The main reason I feel that Scizor has been so rock-solid in usage is because of his ability to take an Outrage and revenge kill Mence with Bullet Punch. No Mence = fewer Scizor, just like in Suspect
7. What pokemon might come from UU to OU as a result of Salamence's banning?
I don't think this is a serious issue. Nothing in the lower end of UU is known for taking on Salamence, but if anything, seeing Salamence gone will keep some things in OU with one of the top ten going into Uber.
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
I don't see any other time to do it. I feel that it should have been done sooner, though. Latias, to me, is far less Uber than Salamence, but without Latias to outspeed Mence, I feel that the metagame is just not balanced with him in it anymore.
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
Salamence has no counters. It's been said time and time again and not once in the Mence discussion thread have I read anything to make me believe the contrary. Once there's a bulky Steel with Ice Shard, things may be different, though.
A Salamence player with good prediction = good game. If the Salamence user knows the opponents team, even Scizor can't safely switch in in fear of Fire Blast. Hell, Bulky Mence only takes about 40% from Bullet Punch, anyway.
10. Who should be the next candidate for Ubers if you would choose?
What from I've read in the Policy Review forum and in #stark, the next suspect test will be on Clauses, namely Species, Evasion, and OHKO Clauses. Nobody thinks that they'll necessarily be allowed, but it's mostly just a fun thing to test to see its effects on the metagame.
Personally, I'd test Blissey (under the Defensive Characteristic). Blissey centralizes the metagame in that special sweepers just aren't as viable in this metagame with Blissey to wall them all day. I think a metagame without Blissey would be very test-worthy.
__________________
8. Do you think this was a good time to ban Salamence?
very perfect time seeing the DPPT age will soon end moving to gen 5
sala in uber can make Gen 5's tiering system going better with salamence
banning. Also salamence banning can serve as a test of metagame IMO
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
ok actually its not. sure its the best sweeper in OU and i admits it.
but sala is not that overcentralizing and powerful like say chomp that
has crazy bulk and able to lead as well. pokemon with sala stats will
only suceed with dragon bug typing with tinted lens lol
back to the topic while only 50 % predicting salamence isn't actually that hard
since he only has 2 popular sets unlike TTar that has many good sets and has many sets variants
very perfect time seeing the DPPT age will soon end moving to gen 5
sala in uber can make Gen 5's tiering system going better with salamence
banning. Also salamence banning can serve as a test of metagame IMO
9. Why or why wasn't Salamence a good candidate for ubers?
ok actually its not. sure its the best sweeper in OU and i admits it.
but sala is not that overcentralizing and powerful like say chomp that
has crazy bulk and able to lead as well. pokemon with sala stats will
only suceed with dragon bug typing with tinted lens lol
back to the topic while only 50 % predicting salamence isn't actually that hard
since he only has 2 popular sets unlike TTar that has many good sets and has many sets variants
Calculus isn't confusing :/
Salamence should have stayed in OU because sandstorms are far more common than any other tier (Sure you can use Tyranitar in Ubers, but when there's Rayquaza it means nothing). Hard counters for each set did exist, and a Hippowdon EVed correctly could have countered both DD Mence and Mixmence (Barely surviving two Draco Meteors and surviving a +1 Outrage on the same EV spread is beast IMO). It was the same as Garchomp but worse; did Garchomp have the SR weakness? Of course not. Did Salamence have dual STABs to abuse? Obviously not, and if I see a Salamence running Aerial Ace I'll have to bite myself to make sure I didn't read that wrong. Setting up Salamence required you to almost always have Magnezone support, and that's become one of the most obvious combinations which is often easily stopped by simply U-turn spamming.
Mixmence, I admit, had people screaming foul play, but I doubt even a max defense Bold Blissey would have been 2HKOed by the New Mixmence's spread of 16/240/252 Brick Break, even when backed up by a Life Orb. So, Blissey was actually the full stop to Mixmence providing the correct defense investment (Which is common). It's not like Garchomp; you didn't know what set it was, and you could lose games unless you ran multiple counters for one Pokemon to each set. Scizor still held up as a Mixmence counter, since indeed it could survive a Draco Meteor the same as it could survive a +1 Outrage. And for both sets, I'm not even going to start on Weavile and Mamoswine.
Sure, there are indeed loads of other Salamence sets, but all others have flaws that are shared by the two I mentioned. Just because Salamence had brilliant offensive stats doesn't mean that it was too good for OU; in fact, I'd say that those offensive stats costed it bulk. 95/80/80 defenses are not bad. But they are not good, either, and Intimidate only works when you switch in. Heracross has comparable defense stats to these, and doesn't have Intimidate, but it doesn't have the same switch-in opportunities; rather than physical attacks, you switch it in onto a status move! Obviously this activates Guts and turns it into a far more potent attacker than Salamence with those dual 120 STAB moves (Whereas Salamence only has one true STAB to wreck the metagame with). If they banned Salamence partly because of Intimidate giving it "bulk" then they should ban Heracross for its "overpoweredness" after Guts kicks in!
Salamence should have stayed in OU because sandstorms are far more common than any other tier (Sure you can use Tyranitar in Ubers, but when there's Rayquaza it means nothing). Hard counters for each set did exist, and a Hippowdon EVed correctly could have countered both DD Mence and Mixmence (Barely surviving two Draco Meteors and surviving a +1 Outrage on the same EV spread is beast IMO). It was the same as Garchomp but worse; did Garchomp have the SR weakness? Of course not. Did Salamence have dual STABs to abuse? Obviously not, and if I see a Salamence running Aerial Ace I'll have to bite myself to make sure I didn't read that wrong. Setting up Salamence required you to almost always have Magnezone support, and that's become one of the most obvious combinations which is often easily stopped by simply U-turn spamming.
Mixmence, I admit, had people screaming foul play, but I doubt even a max defense Bold Blissey would have been 2HKOed by the New Mixmence's spread of 16/240/252 Brick Break, even when backed up by a Life Orb. So, Blissey was actually the full stop to Mixmence providing the correct defense investment (Which is common). It's not like Garchomp; you didn't know what set it was, and you could lose games unless you ran multiple counters for one Pokemon to each set. Scizor still held up as a Mixmence counter, since indeed it could survive a Draco Meteor the same as it could survive a +1 Outrage. And for both sets, I'm not even going to start on Weavile and Mamoswine.
Sure, there are indeed loads of other Salamence sets, but all others have flaws that are shared by the two I mentioned. Just because Salamence had brilliant offensive stats doesn't mean that it was too good for OU; in fact, I'd say that those offensive stats costed it bulk. 95/80/80 defenses are not bad. But they are not good, either, and Intimidate only works when you switch in. Heracross has comparable defense stats to these, and doesn't have Intimidate, but it doesn't have the same switch-in opportunities; rather than physical attacks, you switch it in onto a status move! Obviously this activates Guts and turns it into a far more potent attacker than Salamence with those dual 120 STAB moves (Whereas Salamence only has one true STAB to wreck the metagame with). If they banned Salamence partly because of Intimidate giving it "bulk" then they should ban Heracross for its "overpoweredness" after Guts kicks in!
i disagree with you since sala has 100 base speed that makes him annoying
and 110 base spa is as big as luca's attack(remember this one completely)
and cross is totaly ruined in the metagame with that gliscor and his lovely sandstorm