Pokemon Black and White (SPECULATIONS ALLOWED HERE)

[IcyMan28]

^That is up for debate as base 110 speed is a pretty high mark for either of the two to reach. And by convention, Electric types tend to have high speed. Not to mention that even if Reshiram is faster, it needs enough SpA to OHKO Latias/Latios through Soul Dew to avoid a likely OHKO on itself. To put this into perspective, 252 Hasty Lustrous Orb Palkia fails to OHKO 112/0 Latias with STAB Spacial Rend, and is OHKOd by a Dragon Pulse despite its 90/120 defenses. Physical Zecrom disregards Soul Dew completely which makes its job easier.

Skarm is debatable. Forretress is generally the better choice on teams that feature sun, as it is often used to spin for Ho-oh. Otherwise, Skarm's access to reliable Recovery, higher speed, and EQ immunity seem superior IMO. Thus, Reshi beats Forretress (sun), while Zekrom beats Skarm (Rain). But again, debatable.

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

dragon/eletric is better against lati@s then dragon/fire but both are really not reliable, and i dont see why skarmory should be given to reshiram when zekrom is way more reliable for killing. rain dont mess up thunder power(in fact it make sure it hit 100% of the time) while fire blast become almost useless in rain. on neutral weather t-punch still 2hko and t-bolt/thunder ohko as long zekrom atacking stats are both base 110 or above. reshiram also ohko with fire blast on both normal and sunny weather. but zekrom beat regardless of the weather. and for all we know zekrom could go and learn fire blast/punch.

Well, there's competition, but I forgot electric was super effective. And considering Skarmory's horrible Sp. Defense, Fire Blast could possibly still OHKO in rain

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

^That is up for debate as base 110 speed is a pretty high mark for either of the two to reach. And by convention, Electric types tend to have high speed. Not to mention that even if Reshiram is faster, it needs enough SpA to OHKO Latias/Latios through Soul Dew to avoid a likely OHKO on itself. Physical Zecrom disregards Soul Dew completely which makes its job easier.

Skarm is debatable. Forretress is generally the better choice on teams that feature sun, as it is often used to spin for Ho-oh. Otherwise, Skarm's access to reliable Recovery, higher speed, and EQ immunity seem superior IMO. Thus, Reshi beats Forretress (sun), while Zekrom beats Skarm (Rain). But again, debatable.

Yes, it's debatable. But look at Luxray as an example, Shinx looked fast at first. And if they aren't faster than Lati@s, then I wouldn't give it to either, because both can be OHKOed by Draco Meteor. And I'm pretty sure that if my Kingdra can OHKO a Latio@s with Soul Dew with a Draco Meteor, Reshiram can (done it many times). And like I said, depending on stats, Reshiram could OHKO a Skarm under rain with Fire Blast, if not Overheat. (I mean, x3.5 with stab and SE, then take the damage out with rain, still a KO imo)

 

[Lucalibur]

zekrom is overall a more reliable choice for skarm, knowing gamefreak they will give reshi thunder and zek fire blast. even if they dont reshi need a high special atack(up there with the likes of dialga) to ko skarmory in rain. why? cause skarm always run specially defensive on ubers. those max max careful ones. zekrom ohko regardless of the weather. thunder in rain, t-bolt outside of rain and fire blast on sun.


why are we even discussion this? both beat skarm, only different is that zekrom does better. and zekrom also does better with the latis because he resist surf and 4X resist thunder.

 

[IcyMan28]

Well, there's competition, but I forgot electric was super effective. And considering Skarmory's horrible Sp. Defense, Fire Blast could possibly still OHKO in rain

Choice Specs Dialga's Fire Blast in Rain vs. Max/Max +Nature Skarmory:

657 Atk vs 262 Def & 334 HP (120 Base Power): 216 - 256 (64.67% - 76.65%)

Skarmory survives with a nice chunk left. This is the equivalent of Reshiram using a STAB unboosted Fire Blast on Skarmory in the rain, assuming it has base 150 SpA and a Modest nature. Just a baseline.

Yes, it's debatable. But look at Luxray as an example, Shinx looked fast at first. And if they aren't faster than Lati@s, then I wouldn't give it to either, because both can be OHKOed by Draco Meteor. And I'm pretty sure that if my Kingdra can OHKO a Latio@s with Soul Dew with a Draco Meteor, Reshiram can (done it many times). And like I said, depending on stats, Reshiram could OHKO a Skarm under rain with Fire Blast, if not Overheat. (I mean, x3.5 with stab and SE, then take the damage out with rain, still a KO imo)

Luxray is the odd one out in that case. Slow fire types include Magcargo, Torkoal, and Magmortar. Even the fastest Fire type caps at base 108 speed (Infernape). If neither is faster, then Zekrom is more likely to win, as being paralyzed on the switch-in is worse than being burned.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Well ironically, Ming-Ming's pic DID crash my browser. But I'm finally back...

I've actually tried re-sizing it on tinypic, but apparently... Can't be done. ;^^ Should've done it on GIMP or something when I had the chance.

Nah, I just prefer him over Zekrom, really. Angel dragons > Mecha dragons, in my opinion at least.

...and I still like both of those too much to decide, and I still want angels flying mechs! And it would be so awesome if Zekrom turns out to be the dark angel... the dark MECHA angel... :naughty:

As for the 3 on 3 battles, I think it will be a very out of control battle type. Sure, the placement of the pokemon as well as the new abilities seem interesting, but I have a feeling that it will be cast on the sidelines as 2v2 was (though quite a lot of people do play 2v2). I'm not saying that there will be a tier / metagame for it, I just think that it will not get the attention that it deserves. However, the fact that you are given 2 home-town rivals kind of has me thinking of alliances throughout the game.

I agree that 3v3 will be too unbalanced, just as 2v2 is. The thought of in-game alliances is really interesting. An extension of this would be the idea of in-game decisions you can make that would influence the storyline - like you can choose to support Belle or Cheren, and depending on your choice, you ally with one character and battle the opposite character. I'd love a storyline with multiple paths and endings...

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

zekrom is overall a more reliable choice for skarm, knowing gamefreak they will give reshi thunder and zek fire blast. even if they dont reshi need a high special atack(up there with the likes of zam and dialga) to ko skarmory in rain. why? cause skarm always run specially defensive on ubers. those max max careful ones. zekrom ohko regardless of the weather. thunder in rain, t-bolt outside of rain and fire blast on sun.


why are we even discussion this? both beat skarm, only different is that zekrom does better. and zekrom also does better with the latis because he resist surf and 4X resist thunder.

Agreeing with what you said first. I still don't think that Lati twins should be given to Zekrom but whatever. Reshiram resists possible Ice beam and x4 Grass Knot (VERY good in ubers). Let's just leave this alone, shall we? ^_0

 

[blasphemy1]

For me, it seems like a Pokemon with the ability Turbo Blaze would be very fast. Tera Voltage (or whatever) on the other hand reminds me of brute strength. If they were to have the exact same stats as Palkia/Dialga (the individual numbers, not the actual spread) Reshiram would be 120 / 100 / 90 / 150 / 100 / 120, while Zekrom would be 120 / 150 / 100 / 120 / 100 / 90. This makes the discussion completely different, just to show you all how pointless it would be to argue the Pokemon without base stats. In this case, Zekrom makes a good and bulky mixed sweeper, but Reshiram is incredibly quick and powerful. If their stats are distributed fairly, then they will each have their own niches.

@ IcyMan28: And Skarmory can't stall out the damage with Roost... not to mention if Turbo Blaze does what the rumor is, subsequent hits will hit even harder. Add in Life Orb to the equation, and yeah...

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

For me, it seems like a Pokemon with the ability Turbo Blaze would be very fast. Tera Voltage (or whatever) on the other hand reminds me of brute strength. If they were to have the exact same stats (the individual numbers, not the actual spread) Reshiram would be 120 / 100 / 90 / 150 / 100 / 120, while Zekrom would be 120 / 150 / 100 / 120 / 100 / 90. This makes the discussion completely different, just to show you all how pointless it would be to argue the Pokemon without base stats. In this case, Zekrom makes a good and bulky mixed sweeper, but Reshiram is incredibly quick and powerful. If their stats are distributed fairly, then they will each have their own niches.

I'm COMPLETELY agreeing with you.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I'd like to point out (someone probably did already) that Reshiram, no matter its arguably worse resistances, is immune to Will-O-Wisp. Suck it, Zekrom.

After a million views, finally a new thread. Try to limit your posts to what's been actually revealed instead of speculating on what might be. I know that's hard. Just try.

First post! :o


What Pokemon are WHITE exclusives? I'm not sure of this... And I want to know >. <

Jesus Christ people that was the first post sheesh

 

[IcyMan28]

Eh, using abilities to infer stats doesn't seem very logical either. So many legendaries have Pressure (a filler ability that does nothing to reflect stats) that it seems somewhat pointless to me. Either way, these two should make a big splash in Ubers thanks to their typing. I think Zekrom more than Reshiram since its Electric STAB isn't completely screwed by the more dominant weather condition, but whatever.

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

Eh, using abilities to infer stats doesn't seem very logical either. So many legendaries have Pressure (a filler ability that does nothing to reflect stats) that it seems somewhat pointless to me. Either way, these two should make a big splash in Ubers thanks to their typing. I think Zekrom more than Reshiram since its Electric STAB isn't completely screwed by the more dominant weather condition, but whatever.

Zekrom will do better under rain, Reshiram under sun. Who will do better under the other's weather? Zekrom. Under no weather? Reshiram.

 

[Lucalibur]

reshiram body structure kinda remove the possibilitys of element punchs. zekrom work better on rain and no weather while reshi work better under then sun but if that was the case i would just run ho-oh instead.

 

[Wikey]

Zekrom is most likely going to be better than Reshiram because Kyogre is most likely still going to be the best Uber strategy in Gen 5. Also people a few pages back were arguing over why Rain was better than Sun and it's a two-part reason. The first part is that there are no Pokémon that get both a speed boost and a power boost to STAB moves in the Sun. The second problem is that Water/Electric works way better than Fire/Grass.

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

Zekrom is most likely going to be better than Reshiram because Kyogre is most likely still going to be the best Uber strategy in Gen 5. Also people a few pages back were arguing over why Rain was better than Sun and it's a two-part reason. The first part is that there are no Pokémon that get both a speed boost and a power boost to STAB moves in the Sun. The second problem is that Water/Electric works way better than Fire/Grass.

We weren't arguying about that, we were saying what you just said, that rain IS better than sun.
and @Lucalibur- I see you don't like the chicken at all, lol

 

[Lucalibur]

We weren't arguying about that, we were saying what you just said, that rain IS better than sun.
and @Lucalibur- I see you don't like the chicken at all, lol

i am a competitive player, i use the best. not what i think its cool.

 

[IcyMan28]

Zekrom will do better under rain, Reshiram under sun. Who will do better under the other's weather? Zekrom. Under no weather? Reshiram.

Under no weather, it's about equal since either would most likely elect to use their Dragon STAB. However, Zekrom still hits Ho-oh, Lugia, and Heatran harder, and doesn't give Palkia a free switch-in (which is arguably worse than giving Groudon a free switch). But lol no weather in Ubers.

Either way, the sheer dominance of Kyogre will likely help Zekrom get the edge over Reshi.

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

Under no weather, it's about equal since either would most likely elect to use their Dragon STAB. However, Zekrom still hits Ho-oh, Lugia, and Heatran harder, and doesn't give Palkia a free switch-in (which is arguably worse than giving Groudon a free switch). But lol no weather in Ubers.

Either way, the sheer dominance of Kyogre will likely help Zekrom get the edge over Reshi.

Agreed, I still like Reshiram better though ^_^
He looks cooler and stronger
@Lucalibur- I can see, lol. Please don't get mad at me (if you are), I know I can be a pain in the @$$, but I'm not trying to fight with anyone

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

What I think about the whole Zekrom & Reshiram: White mammalian chicken > Black mecha dragon. Why, because Gamefreak like to do that kind of shit on people.

 

[DDRMaster]

Yeah, I think Zekrom will be used more simply because it will require less support. Reshiram will most likely need Rapid Spin or Wish support to stay healthy while Zekrom will have more freedom while switching in. I've barely even played Ubers but I'd imagine that Rayquaza has a pretty hard time switching in with its SR weakness and it's immune to Earthquake.

So in conclusion, they're about equal if you give them the support they deserve, but without any support, Zekrom is easier to use and will probably be used more often.

Also, what Pokemon revealed so far do you think has the most potential to shake up the metagame the most? I'm thinking it's Rankurusu because Magic Guard could allow it to be a great stall breaker and, while we already have a few good stall breakers, this will be immune to any sort of residual damage. Obviously, Scizor will be a big problem but hopefully it will get something to deal with it.

 

[Lucalibur]

i think it will be zoroark. if SR dont affect illusion then i can see killing a lot of pokemons like rotom with easy. and of course as long the illusion dont happen AFTER switching into field.


@togekiss-i hope that was internet sarcarm.

 

[jujuomi]

The more popular pokemon tends to be the worse of the two. In GSC, majority liked Gold, Ho-oh < Lugia. In RSE majority liked Ruby, Groudon < Kyogre. In DPPt, majority liked Diamond, Dialga < Palkia. And I mean in general, not against each other.

Its obvious which one is the favorite, that only means the other is going to be better, in general of course.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Yeah, I think Zekrom will be used more simply because it will require less support. Reshiram will most likely need Rapid Spin or Wish support to stay healthy while Zekrom will have more freedom while switching in. I've barely even played Ubers but I'd imagine that Rayquaza has a pretty hard time switching in with its SR weakness and it's immune to Earthquake.

So in conclusion, they're about equal if you give them the support they deserve, but without any support, Zekrom is easier to use and will probably be used more often.

Also, what Pokemon revealed so far do you think has the most potential to shake up the metagame the most? I'm thinking it's Rankurusu because Magic Guard could allow it to be a great stall breaker and, while we already have a few good stall breakers, this will be immune to any sort of residual damage. Obviously, Scizor will be a big problem but hopefully it will get something to deal with it.

I agree that Zekrom will be used more, not only because it performs better without support, but also because Kyogre (and it's rain) is the most common Uber, and I don't see that changing. With Zekrom shaping up to be it's best teammate AND it's best check, I think we'll see a lot of Zekrom, moreso than Reshiram. But Gothic Togekiss brings up an unfortunate point: GF may screw Zekrom over in the stat-distribution or movepool departments compared to Reshiram, they absolutely love doing that...

Now, a new topic, how novel! From what we know so far, I'm pleased to agree that greenblob will likely have the most effect on the metagame. From what we know of it's stats (these are just ballpark estimates, don't quote me) 110 base HP coupled with 70 Defense and 90 SpD makes it quite bulky, and 120 base SpA means it can lay on the hurt too. Magic guard will make it great for Sandstorm teams, a perfect status absorber, and since it's Psychic typed, it will have a huge support movepool. Hopefully Recover, too, just from the way it looks, I'd say it should get that.

Scizor will be annoying since it's U-Turn bait and so incredibly slow (I think it's base 37 or something like that?), and Pursuit hits it's weak Defense, but it should have Focus Blast for TTar's ugly mug.

And who knows what kind of new and/or unique moves this guy will get? It seems like an "amplification" Pokemon should get some cool toys to play with.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

The more popular pokemon tends to be the worse of the two. In GSC, majority liked Gold, Ho-oh < Lugia. In RSE majority liked Ruby, Groudon < Kyogre. In DPPt, majority liked Diamond, Dialga < Palkia. And I mean in general, not against each other.

Its obvious which one is the favorite, that only means the other is going to be better, in general of course.

It's really not clear which is the best out of the duo.

And Dialga < Palkia? I'm not too sure about it...

 

[Unknown Tsutaja]

Cool, where are you guys getting this info, such as stats, from?