Aggron

[SMZ]

Though I have no evidence to back this up with, I think it's very likely that Body Purge will have some impact on Aggron's weight. I'm basing this on:

- If it is just an Agility clone it seemed an odd move to give him on account of him already learning Rock Polish.
- The fact that he has an ability and move that are both related to his weight.
- The name and move itself. To increase your speed by 'purging' your body would imply you are shedding weight of some kind.

What this could mean I have no idea and remember it's just speculation. One to keep an eye on, I suppose.

Gliscor and Metagross both learn Agility and Rock Polish, but other than that good points. Body Purge might have to do something with weight and if it does, it's gonna be interesting to see how it works.

 

[revdjweb]

EDIT: Does custap activation let you go before priority moves?

Cutsap berry doesn't alter the move priorities of attacks. Just imagine that for the one turn it is consumed that your Pokemon has a Speed of 999 even if paralyzed.

I've been playing with a Headsmash Aggron on Wi-Fi ever since HGSS came out and a Levitating Ghost is his best friend against all those scarfed Close Combatants/EQ Spammers.

 

[Akita Neru]

I don't think Heavy Bomber has a maximum of 120.
Maybe 150, but not 120. I mean, Heavy Metal would be absolutely worthless, because the "Grass Knot/Low Kick factor" already puts Aggron at 120 as it is. Also, it might be an even higher number, because Head Smash with Rock Head would kinda outclass it otherwise, seeing as that can benefit from those 120 points even on that set.

 

[CPU]

If Serebii's information is correct, Body Purge does indeed increase Speed by reducing Weight.

 

[Limewire]

Sorry about not updating for the last two days, people. My internet kept dieing on me =/

That's true...

How about something like:

Aggron @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

~ Claw Sharpen
~ Head Smash
~ Heavy Bomber / Aqua Tail
~ Earthquake

Oooooh Salac Berry. How fast would that make Aggron? Not too much, I'd imagine, so maybe Leichi/Custap Berry instead?

Aggron @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Rest
- Metal Burst
- Heavy Bomber
- Earthquake

Full moveset is a little iffy; but effectively you can Rest back up to full health after a Metal Burst, then have Sturdy back up and running. Bonus points for Heal Bell support.

If Sturdy can work more than once, then that moveset would be killer.

 

[Lee]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention CPU. Assuming there's no other side-effects it's slightly superior to Rock Polish in that it reduces damage taken from Grass Knot and Low Kick. However, given Aggron's huge weight it's probable that Heavy Bomber will still be a usable attack even when using Rock Head so meh...

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

Aggron, LV.1, Endeavour, with a shell bell recover when dealing damage.

^this needs to be here, the only thing that kills this is entry hazards, hail, or priority. also ghosts.
Also, I think Head Smash is worth including on the FEAR set since with Brave (+att -spe) and 252 Att evs it OHKOs 4 Hp Shanderaa. also you should have 0 Spe IV so nothing outspeeds if you Metal Burst (it fails if you're faster)
edit: pursuit too I guess (on the quoted set)
edit2: oh shit I did the Calcs based on if Shanderaa was pure Ghost type, my bad! Even 0 At EV adamant Aggron can OHKO 252 Hp 252 Def Bold Shanderaa, if you put 252 Attack I'm pretty sure no ghost short of Dusknoir has even a chance of surviving

 

[SlyShady]

man, heavy bomber is such an amazing new move for aggron. he desperately needed a decent secondary STAB, and he definitely got one.

 

[Limewire]

^this needs to be here, the only thing that kills this is entry hazards, hail, or priority. also ghosts.
Also, I think Head Smash is worth including on the FEAR set since with Brave (+att -spe) and 252 Att evs it OHKOs 4 Hp Shanderaa. also you should have 0 Spe IV so nothing outspeeds if you Metal Burst (it fails if you're faster)
edit: pursuit too I guess (on the quoted set)
edit2: oh shit I did the Calcs based on if Shanderaa was pure Ghost type, my bad! Even 0 At EV adamant Aggron can OHKO 252 Hp 252 Def Bold Shanderaa, if you put 252 Attack I'm pretty sure no ghost short of Dusknoir has even a chance of surviving

Adding. Head Smash seems a bit risky since Aggron will probably have 1 HP left, but it should OHKO every ghost not named Desukhan, Duskinor or that ground-ghost thing.

After some snooping around, I discovered this in the research thread:

New moves\items\abilites:
Confirmed Sturdy: Always lets a Pokemon at full health to survive any hit with 1 HP, even if the ability has been activated before (howabe)

Sturdy only works at full health, but if you heal Aggron's HP fully, it will work again. Bwahahahaha >:D

Also, has anyone theorymonned a Curse set for Aggron?

 

[Scepticallistic]

Erm, some of these sets relying on Sturdy make no sense. If Aggron has Sturdy, it means it doesn't have Rock Head, which means using Head Smash is suicidal. Sturdy sets really should refrain from using Head Smash.

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

(Head Smash is designed to kill aggron so something frail can switch in for free, or something that likes not having ghosts around. Think explosion that works on ghosts. If you only want to kill Shanderaa Stone Edge has the same accuracy)
Aggron @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Why speed on the FEAR Aggron? Metal Burst fails if you're faster and you have a Custap, so you always want to go last. 0 Speed IV is ideal to underspeed non-TR Dusknoir. Defenses don't matter, you're just reducing the damage reflected, for that matter there's no reason to run EVs anywhere but HP and Attack...

But honestly aggron without Custap and 1 hp isn't going to be useful for anything but dying. This just saves a turn, and HEAD SMASH

 

[Limewire]

(Head Smash is designed to kill aggron so something frail can switch in for free, or something that likes not having ghosts around. Think explosion that works on ghosts. If you only want to kill Shanderaa Stone Edge has the same accuracy)
Aggron @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Why speed on the FEAR Aggron? Metal Burst fails if you're faster and you have a Custap, so you always want to go last. 0 Speed IV is ideal to underspeed non-TR Dusknoir. Defenses don't matter, you're just reducing the damage reflected, for that matter there's no reason to run EVs anywhere but HP and Attack...

Whoops, I just C/P'ed the set XenoIncognito without checking it thoroughly. My bad >_< .

@ Sceptallistic- Pretty much what foxy_eisenhower said. Head Smash is basically an explosion clone. If Aggron has 1 HP left and is about to die, he should go down with a fight.

 

[Omega Zero]

Head Smash, Heavy Bomber, Earthquake, Aqua Tail Aggron@ CB might be fun in UU. I doubt he's gonna get into OU because the Metal Mole will probably outclass him.

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

Head Smash, Heavy Bomber, Earthquake, Aqua Tail Aggron@ CB might be fun in UU. I doubt he's gonna get into OU because the Metal Mole will probably outclass him.

1. Gen 5 tiers don't exist
2. HEAD SMASH
3. Sturdy
4. HEAD SMASH
5. Head Smash

Aggron also has that wonderful movepool and newfound versatility, along with that one 150 BP Rock move that he can do with no recoil. He can now even beat ALL his counters JUST by using one move for Metal Burst, provided he's slower.

 

[Omega Zero]

So basically...

1) Switch in Aggron
2) Head Smash on the Switch
3) ???
4) Profit

I really want to use Aggron for Gen 5, I'm just afraid of Doryuuzu (however the hell you spell the mole's name) because of his 4x resistance to head smash.

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

Aggron has his own little niche he carved for himself using his face, and now with Sturdy he can use his obscene movepool to carve even more niches. An unrelated Steel type that plays completely differently, even if Duduyuzu is way, way better and could totally beat Aggron up in a fight, doesn't have any effect on his standing in non-existant tiers.
Besides, Earthquake.

 

[Farewell]

Next thread: Sturdy Skarmory! Unless anyone else chose it/ is thinking about choosing him. - Limewire

I am not making a thread, just Posting a set that would work with perfect support.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

Another Strategy that is MUCH WORSE but still viable with perfect support:

Level 1 Skarmory: @ Leftovers
Set HP 0 IVs, Set HP 0 EVs (So it is at 12 HP).

Roost [HGSS TM]
Protect [TM]
Taunt [TM]
Whirlwind / Toxic [Egg Move / TM]


Baton Pass Skarmory Aqua Ring, and Ingrain. Skarmory is Immune to Toxic Spikes and Sandstorm (Ingrain negates Spikes Immunity). If it switches into Stealth Rock, it will heal the 12.5% damage off with Aqua Ring and Ingrain, and even with Hail Leftovers will negate the weather damage.

How does this Skarmory work? It takes a hit to 1 HP, it Roosts to heal 6 HP taking it to 7, then Heals 1 HP from Leftovers, 1 HP from Ingrain, and 1 HP from Aqua Ring leaving it at 10 HP. Protect the next turn and then Skarmory is at full HP healing another 3 HP from Ingrain, Aqua Ring, and Leftovers. With this you can stall out a foe by Roost + Protect + Sturdy!

This works well with Whirlwind and Toxic because the turn your foe thinks you will Protect (after doing it several times and they see a pattern), is an opportunity to use Whirlwind, Toxic, or Taunt. This set loses to Leech Seed, Burn, and Taunt, and requires much more help than Probopass or Aggron's Sturdy sets, but it can be used.



Additionally, try out Torchic's Aron set with Endeavor + Shell Bell

Low Level Aggron/Aron: Shell Bell
Sturdy

Endeavor
Filler
Filler
Filler

Set foe to 1 HP after being hit, then Shell Bell restores your HP to be used multiple times due to Sturdy. Sandstorm teams also benefit because Sandstorm hits before Leftovers/Black Sludge so when the foe is sent to 1 HP, Sandstorm finishes it off!

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

I am not making a thread, just Posting a set that would work with perfect support.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/skarmory

Another Strategy that is MUCH WORSE but still viable with perfect support:

Level 1 Skarmory: @ Leftovers
Set HP 0 IVs, Set HP 0 EVs (So it is at 12 HP).

Roost [HGSS TM]
Protect [TM]
Taunt [TM]
Whirlwind / Toxic [Egg Move / TM]


Baton Pass Skarmory Aqua Ring, and Ingrain. Skarmory is Immune to Toxic Spikes and Sandstorm (Ingrain negates Spikes Immunity). If it switches into Stealth Rock, it will heal the 12.5% damage off with Aqua Ring and Ingrain, and even with Hail Leftovers will negate the weather damage.

How does this Skarmory work? It takes a hit to 1 HP, it Roosts to heal 6 HP taking it to 7, then Heals 1 HP from Leftovers, 1 HP from Ingrain, and 1 HP from Aqua Ring leaving it at 10 HP. Protect the next turn and then Skarmory is at full HP healing another 3 HP from Ingrain, Aqua Ring, and Leftovers.

This works well with Whirlwind and Toxic because the turn your foe thinks you will Protect (after doing it several times and they see a pattern), is an opportunity to use Whirlwind, Toxic, or Taunt. This set loses to Leech Seed, Burn, and Taunt, and requires much more help than Probopass, but it can be used.

Not Very Good at All Skymary Baton Pass Gimmick set! I don't know how many teams will let you get up entry hazards and a baton pass chain at the same time, but even then you can't beat a last pokemon steel type, and since they resist SR and are immune to Toxic Spikes IF THIS WORKS it'll always be steel. You'll be forced to switch out :| in a Baton Pass team. do you see where I'm going with this?
I'm not used to baton pass teams that need even more free turns than they already do, so many i'm not qualified to talk about this. I could see it working in a very contrived sort of way on Wifi. Because you know people on shoddy will quit the second you get all those regen statuses

ahahah nevermind Roost has 16 PP max XD unless you opponent has a team of charizards, yanmegas and ho-ohs with horrible prediction and no burn moves this will never work in ANY capacity.

HOLY CRAP any choice user will kill this skarmory, regardless of godly prediction, since they can't switch attacks!

 

[Scepticallistic]

I was aware of Head Smash's pseudo-Explosion status on Custap sets or whatever, but I was sort of commenting on some sets I thought I saw that were using Head Smash and Sturdy with set up moves like Rock Polish and such.

 

[foxy_eisenhower]

I was aware of Head Smash's pseudo-Explosion status on Custap sets or whatever, but I was sort of commenting on some sets I thought I saw that were using Head Smash and Sturdy with set up moves like Rock Polish and such.

I agree, those sets are so bad. (Why is everyone accusing Aggron of imaginary flaws?)

 

[Limewire]

I was aware of Head Smash's pseudo-Explosion status on Custap sets or whatever, but I was sort of commenting on some sets I thought I saw that were using Head Smash and Sturdy with set up moves like Rock Polish and such.

Well, Head Smash still can act like a pseudo-Explosion even on the boosting sets. Take this following scenario, for example.

I send out my Rock Polish Aggron against a Blissey.
Rock Polish on the switch. Foe sends out Jolly CB Infernape.
Rock Polish again. Foe uses Close Combat. Aggron lives thanks to Sturdy.
KO with Earthquake. Opponent sends out bulky Gyarados.

Assuming Earthquake is used over Thunderpunch, and Aggron is running a Jolly nature, none of RP Aggron's moves can KO a bulky Gyara after Intimidate, not even Stone Edge + Stealth Rock. The only way to kill it is to sacrifice Aggron and use Head Smash.

Nevertheless, I agree that Head Smash can be risky to use on these sets, which is why I listed Rock Head and Stone Edge as alternatives.

 

[PK Gaming]

So with the formula Heavy Bomber finally determined, Aggron got a major buff.

Heavy Bomber:

A) 120 base power, if target´s weight is lower or equal to 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight
B) 100 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/5 (20%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight
C) 80 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/4 (25%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight
D) 60 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/3 (33.3%) of user´s weight and lower or equal to 1/2 of user´s weight (50%)
E) 40 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 1/2 (50%) of user´s weight

Aggron is heavy enough to usually hit 100 or 120 Heavy Bomber on most pokemon. Many of the *heavy* bomber actually managed to counter standard Aggron anyway (Torterra Rhyperior etc)


I can envision set for Standard / UU.
Aggron @ Life Orb / Balloon
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Heavy Bomber
- Earthquake / Aqua Tail /Fire Punch


Switch Aggron into something you force out, Rock Polish on the switch and start sweeping.
-Heavy Metal isn't really useful on the Rock Polish set. Head Smash is your main sweeping move anyway, while Heavy Bomber is just your secondary STAB. Earthquake gets you fairly good coverage with Head Smash. Aqua Tail is useful for nailing bulky grounds like Donphan and Rhyperior, while Fire Punch is useful for dealing with Nattorei.

 

[Green Mage]

It's good that those numbers finally came out. Many people were under the impression that it was calculated from the user's weight alone.

I'm willing to say that 80 BP is perfectly acceptable, and he's going to hit that number more often than not. It's unfortunate that rock types are usually heavy, but they're usually weak to ground and water too, sometimes doubly so.

 

[Forsety]

Actually I'd like to note Heavy Bomber isn't strong enough on Aggron on the majority of the game without Aggron's Heavy Metal trait. Aggron only weighs 793lb, that basically makes him only 100lb heavier than even Rhyperior and even the new Ghost/Ground is the same weight as Aggron in short Heavy Bomber would only be 40 power.

Even the big dragons like Salamence, Garchomp, Sazandora are in the 180-220lb regions and Dragonite is at least 463lb. In short against these lot its 60 power and 40 power against Dragonite.

However with Heavy Bomber we see Aggron's weight shoot upto 1586lb which in short nets a 120 power Heavy Bomber even against Garchomp and even Gigaisu (the new pure rock).

In summary Heavy Bomber is useless without the Heavy Metal trait, Iron head would be more reliable nearly everytime. Since I see almost everyone running either Sturdy or Rock Head, Heavy Bomber is pretty much a dud move.

 

[Crystic]

Actually I'd like to note Heavy Bomber isn't strong enough on Aggron on the majority of the game without Aggron's Heavy Metal trait. Aggron only weighs 793lb, that basically makes him only 100lb heavier than even Rhyperior and even the new Ghost/Ground is the same weight as Aggron in short Heavy Bomber would only be 40 power.

Even the big dragons like Salamence, Garchomp, Sazandora are in the 180-220lb regions and Dragonite is at least 463lb. In short against these lot its 60 power and 40 power against Dragonite.

However with Heavy Bomber we see Aggron's weight shoot upto 1586lb which in short nets a 120 power Heavy Bomber even against Garchomp and even Gigaisu (the new pure rock).

In summary Heavy Bomber is useless without the Heavy Metal trait, Iron head would be more reliable nearly everytime. Since I see almost everyone running either Sturdy or Rock Head, Heavy Bomber is pretty much a dud move.

Why use Heavy Bomber on those pokemon when you have 150 BP Rock Head Head Smash?

Also, courtesy of Death Phenomeno in the Heavy Bomber Thread, I decided borrow his info and post his stats concerning Aggron:

Aggron

A) 120 base power, if target´s weight is lower or equal to 72 kg
Grumpig, Stantler, Kirikizan, Armaldo, Magmortar, Landorosu, Electrode, Arbok, Jarooda, Torunerosu, Gamageroge, Nidoking, Ampharos, Drapion, Borutorosu, Muurando, Deoxys (all), Musharna, Cradily, Kingler, Latios, Moltres, Nidoqueen, Shiftry, Aerodactyl, Kuitaran, Smeargle, Baibanira, Nageki, Articuno, Infernape, Ludicolo, Magcargo, Pinsir, Tentacruel, Mr. Mime, Heracross, Lucario, Poliwrath, Zapdos, Seviper, Sceptile, Blaziken, Gallade, Yanmega, Dageki, Darkrai, Skarmory, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Granbull, Kerudio, Gardevoir, Alakazam, Hitmontop, Absol, Blissey, Urugamosu, Marowak, Toxicroak, Gochiruzeru, Purugly, Gliscor, Luxray, Girafarig, Wargle, Noctowl, Jynx, Gengar, Kabutops, Doryuuzu, Zangoose, Manectric, Clefable, Latias, Varujiina, Pidgeot, Breloom, Seaking, Vespiquen, Fearow, Skuntank, Sudowoodo, Togekiss, Leparudasu, Mightyena, Ledian, Kojondo, Houndoom, Omastar, Oobemu, Shandera, Porygon-Z, Weavile, Politoed, Ariados, Floatzel, Dugtrio, Lopunny, Aianto, Shubarugo, Crawdaunt, Delcatty, Furret, Linoone, Aakeosu, Butterfree, Persian, Primeape, Dustox, Mamanbou, Bibarel, Medicham, Tabunne, Yanakkii, Muk, Raichu, Zuruzukin, Gastrodon, Beedrill, Parasect, Sandslash, Hiyakkii, Kenhorou, Vaporeon, Azumarill, Octillery, Wobbuffet, Beautifly, Baokkii, Marakacchi, Pelipper, Honchkrow, Carnivine, Huntail, Miruhoggu, Umbreon, Froslass, Espeon, Glaceon, Kricketune, Leafeon, Agirudaa, Flareon, Staraptor, Jolteon, Suwanna, Lumineon, Whiscash, Relicanth, Mothim, Gorebyss, Lanturn, Kecleon, Altaria, Hahakomori, Shuckle, Ambipom, Rankurusu, Ninetales, Swellow, Vileplume, Raticate, Basurao (both), Illumise, Volbeat, Doredia, Delibird, Victreebel, Drifblim, Farfetch'd, Xatu, Roserade, Denchura, Dunsparce, Shinboraa, Banette, Venomoth, Ninjask, Wigglytuff, Mawile, Maggyo, Sableye, Kokoromori, Morobareru, Weezing, Cherrim, Luvdisc, Sunflora, Chirachiino, Erufuun, Meloetta (both), Wormadam (all), Bellossom, Celebi, Corsola, Emonga, Spinda, Unown, Mismagius, Minun, Plusle, Victini, Ditto, Mew, Pachirisu, Qwilfish, Masquerain, Phione, Jumpluff, Shaymin (both), Chatot, Manaphy, Shedinja, Jirachi, Chimecho, Castform, Azelf, Mesprit, Rotom (all), Uxie

B) 100 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 72 kg and lower or equal to 90 kg
Feraligatr, Sharpedo, Tauros, Roobushin, Cresselia, Blastoise, Dodrio, Empoleon, Exploud, Genosekuto, Flygon, Swampert, Zoroark, Abagoora, Gigigiaru, Shibirudon, Torkoal, Kangaskhan, Starmie, Swalot, Slowking, Typhlosion, Zeburaika, Slowbro, Cacturne, Golduck, Desukaan, Hypno, Miltank, Crobat, Quagsire

C) 80 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 90 kg and lower or equal to 120 kg
Dewgong, Donphan, Exeggutor, Scizor, Nattorei, Claydol, Spiritomb, Dasutodasu, Dusknoir, Ononokusu, Salamence, Rampardos, Meganium, Tropius, Venusaur, Warubiaru, Garchomp, Rapidash, Baffuron, Daikenki, Hihidaruma (both), Mebukijika, Charizard

D) 60 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 120 kg and lower or equal to 180 kg
Magnezone, Raikou, Regice, Lunatone, Milotic, Sazandora, Arcanine, Solrock, Kingdra, Walrein, Emboar, Bastiodon, Furiijio, Lickilicky, Kurimugan, Electivire, Abomasnow, Burungeru, Cloyster, Slaking, Machamp, Tangrowth, Forretress, Ursaring, Mewtwo

E) 40 base power, if target´s weight is greater than 180 kg
Groudon, Giratina (both), Dialga, Metagross, Snorlax, Heatran, Regigigas, Steelix, Wailord, Aggron, Kyogre, Zekrom, Probopass, Palkia, Goruugu, Reshiramu, Kyuremu, Arceus, Torterra, Golem, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Rhyperior, Gigaiasu, Terakion, Tsunbear, Glalie, Hariyama, Kobaruon, Gyarados, Regirock, Camerupt, Lapras, Mantine, Lugia, Dragonite, Rayquaza, Registeel, Tyranitar, Pendoraa, Birijion, Iwaparesu, Ho-Oh, Entei, Bronzong, Suicune

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I see a LOT of Pokemon in the 120 BP area. I wouldn't consider this move useless w/o Heavy Bomber.