Blaziken

IcyMan28 said:
Taking out a pokemon and stripping off half the health of another is a pretty big deal, IMO.
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Worse case scenario and losing an scarf politoed isnt a big deal specially bcuz no1 use SS with blaziken (LO+HJK recoil+ SS kills it quickly) and my team have no problem vs sunny day teams, most of the time i lose 30% of health and OHKO him, or i just dont lose anything and force gim out

Also HJK isnt unreliable at cause of the accuracy, the problem are ghost and protect users one misspredict and you lose half of your health
 
Bad Romance said:
Worse case scenario and losing an scarf politoed isnt a big deal specially bcuz no1 use SS with blaziken (LO+HJK recoil+ SS kills it quickly) and my team have no problem vs sunny day teams, most of the time i lose 30% of health and OHKO him, or i just dont lose anything and force gim out

Also HJK isnt unreliable at cause of the accuracy, the problem are ghost and protect users one misspredict and you lose half of your health
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To be fair, if you're running wide lens on Blaziken (Which is, in my opinion, the best item to run on sets like SD Ken) then sandstorm won't really hurt you that much as you have a very low chance of HJK missing and you don't have to worry about LO recoil. He isn't too bothered about sun either, as no chlorophyll abuser will like taking a STAB sun boosted fire attack, and if Blaziken is +2 speed by the time that you try to revenge him with a chlorophyll abuser he'll already outspeed most, if not all of them by then.

Also, things like protect and ghosts are where prediction comes in. If you know that they have an unknown Pokémon and you don't know what it is yet or if you're fighting something that could possibly protect, don't just randomly fire off a HJK and scout what they are going to do first.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
On paper, Blaziken is a God. In practice (http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?1958-5th-gen-alpha-testing test him asap) he's exactly like Shandera: overhyped and dies to pokemon with move. Well, at least I havent had any issues with Blaziken so far. He especially dies to Erufuun is he sets up, or to priority users is it somehow manages to set up.
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I don't see your point here. Blaziken doesn't really have any need to set up, as the mixed attacker does enough damage already. Again, Fire Blast | HJK | HP Grass | Stone Edge / Baton Pass is all Blaziken really needs to be effective; Swords Dance is more of a wallbreaker than anything and Cheer Up cleans late game, when all of Blaziken's threats are gone (Claw Sharpen, imo at least, is useless because it's just boosting a 90% accurate move)

Also, no one said that Speed Boost Blaziken is that good, especially with stuff like Burngeru running around. Speed Boost just gives players a reason to use Blaziken over Infernape.
 
Thing is, now we know Baton Pass is compatible with Speed Boost, that means he can just pass his boosts when faced with a threat. No Pokemon, no matter how brilliant, is without "100%" counters. Look at the mighty Heatran and Scizor. And Blaze is, arguably, much more unpredictable.

On balance though, I think that Blaziken has massively improved this Gen and will probably be a consistent standard once the dust settles. Which, for a long time fan of the ninja fire chicken, is brilliant. But just because he isn't perfect (which he isn't) doesn't mean he isn't brilliant (then again, I used Blaze in Gen 4 OU, so I'm kinda biased).
 
Chillarmy said:
I don't see your point here. Blaziken doesn't really have any need to set up, as the mixed attacker does enough damage already. Again, Fire Blast | HJK | HP Grass | Stone Edge / Baton Pass is all Blaziken really needs to be effective; Swords Dance is more of a wallbreaker than anything and Cheer Up cleans late game, when all of Blaziken's threats are gone (Claw Sharpen, imo at least, is useless because it's just boosting a 90% accurate move)

Also, no one said that Speed Boost Blaziken is that good, especially with stuff like Burngeru running around. Speed Boost just gives players a reason to use Blaziken over Infernape.
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The thing is the wallbreaker set does not do enough damage right now. Blaziken also easily gets walled by one of the top 5 most common Pokemon used right now in the Ghost/Water type. I haven't gone two battles in a row without seeing that stupid Ghost. Unfortunately this gens defenses were severally underestimated.
 
You can run Protect with Speed Boost to guarantee at least one Speed boost, and either attack with what it has or SD with Close Combat and Flare Blitz.
 
Having now tested Blaziken, I can say that while it pretty much cannot come out early game unless you want to risk being utterly walled (that damn ghostly jellyfish), it seems an amazing late-game sweeper or cleaner.

The set i was using was SD/Blaze Kick/Hi-Jump Kick/SE with wide lens. Blaze Kick was used to reduce recoil and seeing as I was using this on a Sun team, it made up for the power drop. He works well as a threat to TTar for Sun teams especially.
 
I feel like if you're not using Blaziken for late game sweeping(when you know the whole team), baton pass is mandatory. That way, you can switch in on something like nattorei and get the 1 speed, and then baton pass out to whoever they send in. Using a stab move right off the back is too dangerous seeing as the water ghost and Shandera are so common. Sazando is probably a good teammate in this regard, since it can switch into both of the jelly fish's stab moves, pursuit it to death and use the +1 speed to get force the opponent into a touch position.

In general of course, I feel like Blaziken should be used on a generally fast paced offensive/wallbreaking team with pokemon that he can occassionally pass speed to. I think baton pass/fire blast/hjk/hiddenpower or stone edge is the best set for him.

Another interesting idea is using Zoroark as a lure to Blaziken's counters and eliminate them and then using that Blaziken to SD sweep.
 
The problem with Blaziken right now is that it just doesnt have much time to get a speed boost without Protect (which obviously has it's drawbacks). The mechanics of Speed Boost have changed ( i think), you you dont get a boost the first turn youre out at all. So you HAVE to have something switch out or take a hit with Blaziken's poor defenses. And since no one is using Blissey or Foretress, its kind of hard to get a boost. Maybe when the metagame calms down to be less hyper offensive, Blaziken will shine.

Oh and the ghost jellyfish is an excellent check.
 
Benlisted said:
Having now tested Blaziken, I can say that while it pretty much cannot come out early game unless you want to risk being utterly walled (that damn ghostly jellyfish), it seems an amazing late-game sweeper or cleaner.

The set i was using was SD/Blaze Kick/Hi-Jump Kick/SE with wide lens. Blaze Kick was used to reduce recoil and seeing as I was using this on a Sun team, it made up for the power drop. He works well as a threat to TTar for Sun teams especially.
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Switch from Stone Edge to Thunder Punch. All of the Flying types neutral to Thunder Punch will die to something else anyway; +1 HJK OHKOs Salamence with rocks, Dragonite is OHKOed at +2 for sure, and physically defensive Zapdos is KOed by Blaze Kick after rocks, even Flare Blitz without. At +2 and max Attack, Thunder Punch is going to OHKO Burungeru almost all the time, even without rocks (98% - 115.8%). It's physical defense is a little lacking, even if you max out.
 
MarsVolta said:
Another interesting idea is using Zoroark as a lure to Blaziken's counters and eliminate them and then using that Blaziken to SD sweep.
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I've always liked this idea. Zoroark destroys a lot of the top Blaziken switchins with his dark STABs and can pursuit them on their way out.
 
timejirachi said:
with baton pass swordsdance do you think ninjask will be the pokemon to forget about when using a blaziken baton pass set.
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Ninjask would be the better lead due to being very fast and having Taunt, whilst Speed Boost Blaziken would be better for something mid-late game.
 
-Manaphy-- said:
Ninjask would be the better lead due to being very fast and having Taunt, whilst Speed Boost Blaziken would be better for something mid-late game.
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Well you could say that but
1. Ninjask doesn't get taunt
2. Ninjask get's wreck by taunt

Blaziken can actual hurt stuff with Speed Boost while Ninjask isn't doing anything. Blaziken doesn't have a X4 weakness to SR and can actually come in mid game to do something.
 
The awesomeness that is anti-Erufuun/Shanderaa/Heatran Blaziken:

Blaziken @ Lum Berry
*the anti-anti-lead*
Speed Boost
Max Spd, xxx Atk, xxx Satk (+Spd, -Sdef)
- Nitro Charge/Fire Spin
- Hi-Jump Kick/Double Kick
- Stone Edge {Set 2: Earthquake}
- Overheat/Fire Blast {Set 2: Hidden Power [xxx]/Stone Edge}

A direct threat to any Erufuun without Gale and counters scarfed Shanderaa/Heatrans that switch in to abuse Flash Fire. Turn 1 is always Nitro Charge, if it hits anything, Blaziken starts the next turn with +2 speed.

If Erufuun stays in, it's taken a hard hit or sacrificed a sub for nothing but seeds... and Blaziken starts the next turn at +2. If Blaziken IS seeded, Double-Kick (overspecialized gimmick option, i know) will smash the sub and start putting a STAB'd beating on SubSeeding Erufuun. Stun Spore is handed via Lum Berry once.

Encore on the second turn is no threat to Blaziken, since that gives it another turn to smash Erufuun with a STAB'd supereffective hit before switching out. I don't know how many Nitro Charges it takes to KO Erufuun with seeds on Ken, but probably no more than 3.

If Scarfed Shandera switches in without Ken under Encore, it's best chance vs. Ken is a speed tie and Hidden Power xxx while it doesn't want to take an Stone Edge from Ken. Another turn, and no speed tie exists. If Heatran switches in, +1 Ken will always outspeed it. That eliminates Erufuun's two most prolific partners.

Set 1 (Stone Edge and Sp. Fire) is for endgame wallbreaking coverage and handling Urugamosu, while Set 2 forfeits endgame coverage in order to guarantee KOs on bulkier Heatran and a random gimmick pokemon of choice (Gyara, Pert, Sala-Nite-Flygon). While HJK can be used either way, Double Kick can't be used without Set 2, or Heatran's an issue.

Now, the problem is obvious: This Blaziken can't ohko everything. Almost everything can ohko this Blaziken. This Blaziken packs a lot of power and decent enough coverage, but wont be ohkoing most of the things it covers. It'll want to escape and hide until midgame to break walls and tactically eliminate weakened stall threats. Which means Blaziken wants to get out of it's lead role without losing too much HP. It absolutely hates things like Machamp leads for this reason.

Ditto's another issue. You'll never beat it switching in unless you're using Nitro Charge, HJK, or EQ. Beating a revenging Ditto is improbable.

As for EVs, while it's possible to run less than max Spd (no speed at all would still be unbeatable by unscarfed base 100s at +2, a stat of 214 beats scarfed Shadow Tag Shanderaa at +2), doing so puts Ken at risk of losing a speed battle vs Scarfed Flare Fire Heatran and Shanderaa.
 
^While I think that set is a bit overspecialized, it does bring up an interesting point that has been overlooked up to this point - Nitro Charge.

With Blaze not getting the speed boost on the turn that it switches in, the likes of ScarfChomp and other base 100s still manage to outspeed it. Nitro Charge remedies this issue on the mixed set especially:

Blaziken@Life Orb
Rash; 60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Speed

HP Grass
Fire Blast
Hi Jump Kick
Stone Edge / Nitro Charge / Baton Pass

This set always seems to have the first three moves as standard, with the last slot as general utility. Stone Edge provides coverage, Nitro Charge grants Blaziken a second speed boost (and obviates the need for Protect), and Baton Pass furthers the team support provided by the set by passing off its speed once it has broken the enemy's walls.
 
IcyMan28 said:
^While I think that set is a bit overspecialized, it does bring up an interesting point that has been overlooked up to this point - Nitro Charge.

With Blaze not getting the speed boost on the turn that it switches in, the likes of ScarfChomp and other base 100s still manage to outspeed it. Nitro Charge remedies this issue on the mixed set especially:

Blaziken@Life Orb
Rash; 60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Speed

HP Grass
Fire Blast
Hi Jump Kick
Stone Edge / Nitro Charge / Baton Pass

This set always seems to have the first three moves as standard, with the last slot as general utility. Stone Edge provides coverage, Nitro Charge grants Blaziken a second speed boost (and obviates the need for Protect), and Baton Pass furthers the team support provided by the set by passing off its speed once it has broken the enemy's walls.
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It gained coverage in one segment, but you'll lose your Rock move by running Nitro Charge (which means Shanderaa's free to trap and CM you, or FF versions get a free CM).

Baton Pass is a very sexy idea but... it should be along Nitro (imo):

Ken@LO
Rash/Jolly; 252 Atk / 196 Spd / 56 Def or Satk
- Nitro Charge/Bulk Up/Swords Dance/Cheer Up/Claw Sharpen
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake/Stone Edge/HP Grass
- Baton Pass

Switch in on something you're not afraid of, stat up. Flare Blitz wallbreaks decently with the penalty of health.

The next move covers. EQ covers the OU Flash Fire users and Tentacruel, Stone Edge hits Deraa/Torun/Gyara/Sala/Cloy and neutrals Heatran, HP Grass forces PertQuag/StarTops to take dirt naps and hits Cloyster + the new WaterGhost & WaterRock.

And BP gets Ken the heck out of there before a Mischievous Taunter comes in.

As for a 'universal Ken', I don't think such a set that can threaten every OU (even after SD/CU/BU and with LO) exists. All Ken variations will leave openings for common OUs to exploit. But, a pokemon who can reliably pass

+2 Speed
+1 Speed, +2 Attack
+1 Speed, Attack, Defense
+1 Speed, Attack, Special Attack
+1 Speed, Attack, Accuracy

has multiple options to possibly allow another pokemon to come in and do harm to the opponent. Aianto comes to mind for Claw Sharpen, can't see much threatening it at +1 speed and attack without Hustle's acc drop hurting it.
 
Is Wide Lens good on him in practice? He looks good to use after all of the Ghosts are KOd. I will be using him even if he is not as good as the hype, as I am also using PoryZ for the same reason - because I like the Pokémon. (My favorite thing about GenV is that you get to do that and still win.)
 
TorchicBlaziken said:
Is Wide Lens good on him in practice? He looks good to use after all of the Ghosts are KOd. I will be using him even if he is not as good as the hype, as I am also using PoryZ for the same reason - because I like the Pokémon. (My favorite thing about GenV is that you get to do that and still win.)
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Yes, it is. I've been using him to pretty great effect on PO running swords dance and wide lens, and I don't think I've ever not gotten at least one KO on him (even when he hasn't had a SD), except against those damn Mischevious Heart/Assist/Drgon Tail Teams. It works very, very well, as I haven't yet had stone edge miss, and HJK has only hurt me on switched to ghosts
 
Something to think about: if you're smart with the switch in, you could take Heysups Protect idea and slash in Nitro charge? +2 speed in one turn provided the switch is good, and if you switch into something like nattorei you can also deal some nice damage. Its a weak move, but sounds like a viable niche alternative to protect if you ask me

Edit: My bad, browser skipped Pg16 of the thread XD sorry for repeating
 
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