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Haxorus

i think with a base 147 atk theres not much need to ev 252 in atk unless your scarfing it. i think the bulky set works best. i mean at a beneficial nature the lowest its atk can be is 328. with a bulky set your more than likely to get a DD boosting that atk by 50%. thats basically putting 252 ev's in atk.
 
Lol, Axel you still trollin son? Naaah, J/k homie, but for real though, you on that serious Onono stuff (no homo). I'm mad salty though since you never told me you started posting on Smogon, so of course, I had to make an account to haunt you.

But enough about Axel, more about Onono, I have a quick question:

I dont see too many folks pulling up an Sub set for this guy, but I have seen some folks mentioning it. Is sub viable on this Pogey? I mean, running a bulky set with sub sounds pretty good. Especially if I can pump enough HP EV's to make sub healthier. Im not too sure on this idea though (mostly because Axel wont tell me his secrets, but it's cool, we got the weekly today >:D ).

Help a un-informed brotha out here.
 
hahaha no stone edge gyarados CAN WORK AROUND DITTO important message
This is no joke(i say can not always though)
# this theory is found by same person who found the theory that sandstorm will dominate the metagame due to doryuzuu since he replaced kingdra as the king of weather when everyone say rain and sun will dominate instead.
Which is the truth that SS is the metagame hot topic now.

You need to count that
Ditto only has 5 PP(thanks mr gravity your the man!!!!)
It is scarfed(lol)
Unless its some kind of poke theres always poke with priority(situational Though)
Last but not least: use your epic pressure and protect combo to cripple ditto on switch in.

Set up is nowhere as important as last gen. Its even more important since most people using its check, they waste a team slot so if you succed your pretty much in a good position.
 
I don't really understand your post, JSND. Were you referring to the fact that Bulky DDGyarados without Stone Edge can't be easily stopped by Ditto?

@run idiot run: something like this:
Ononokusu @Haban Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV's: 156 HP/100 Atk/174 Def/80 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Dragon Tail/Brick Break/Counter
 
Nah, Cosmic, his EV spread is right. 80 Speed EV's is all he needs to outspeed Scarfed Jolly Chomp since after two DD's that's considered a 100% boost to his speed, which brings it up from 250 to 500 even, effectively trolling chomp.
 
Yea, your just calcing it wrong is all:

Max speed Chomp= 333 speed

Max Speed Chomp + Scarf (50% boost)= 499.5

Because gamefreak rounds down regardless of the decimals, chomp hits 499.
 
cosmicexplorer said:
Jolly Scarfchomp's speed is 501.6, unless I'm calculating it incorrectly, so Ono needs that one extra point.
Click to expand...

EDIT: Double Ninja'd

It's 499; I have no clue how you got 501.6.

If you ever want to calculate things like this use shoddy (which includes the item boost) or a stat calculator like Psypokes' or the Smogon damage calculator (which also calcs speed and other EVs); in both calculators, you first need to find max speed and then multiply it by 1.5, round down.

In any case though I don't like this "outspeed Scarfchomp after two DDs" garbage... if your opponent is so bad that you can get 2 DDs up in the first place, then you're playing against a poor/unprepared opponent.
 
@ Breludicolo

Well, if you DD on the switch, let's say, a SarfChomp switch-in, with a Haban berry you can largely survive an Outrage, DD again, and finally outspeed Chomp for the OHKO next turn.

Just an example though ^^.
 
yes but this is what i don't get. why with ono we only worry about chomp. there are so many other pokemon that can do massive damage other than chomp.
 
@ timejirachi

For sure, but with a Bulky Ono set, as long as your switch-in is not CB Scizor, and hits physically, DD Ono has many opportunities to get 2 DDs if dedicated counters have been defeated before. Just my opinion though.

EDIT: in some situations, it is even useless to aim at this 2 DD benchmark. This Speed requirement itself is here because of scarfchomp ^^.
 
It's because regardless of what ever speed Ono reaches, majority of his checks, not to be confused with counters, after still faster then him after 1 DD. So, you invest in minimum Speed EV's which allows you to outspeed them, i.e. 80 speed EV's, i.e. last check is Chomp. That's where that so called "outspeed garchomp" garbage is coming from. If your chomp happens to be your only check left to Ono to prevent his late game sweep, well then your fucked, because bulky sets will, and CAN, survive his Outrage essentially laughing in your face for being baited into allowing him to setup 2 DD's. He can't get 2 DD's without support any earlier then mid-late game. Any other time it's not worth it. Prepared or not, when your checks are done, you can call it game.

And in no retrospec is it useless to go for two DD's when that's what can seal the deal for Ono 90% of the time. When you can get 2, get 2. Secure the victory. If you only need one, meaning anything they have left can't outspeed you, or can live through +1 damage, go for the +1.

Edit- Don't want to sound harsh or anything, but still. If your not running a bulky set, and running the min/max/standard sweeper Ono, +1 should be fine if it's late game (no checks and all).
 
Fair enough, but if you're going to run bulky at least run Haban berry for sure (I mean no slashes of anything else); otherwise Scarfchomp OHKOes with Outrage.
 
I agree that, hands down, Haban berry takes the cake. I haven't even tested the other items outside of Lum, which was decent, but I'm still more afraid of outright dying to another dragon. It prevents alot of K.O's from going down, and contributes to its effective bulk in the case of problems to come.
 
cosmicexplorer said:
I don't really understand your post, JSND. Were you referring to the fact that Bulky DDGyarados without Stone Edge can't be easily stopped by Ditto?

@run idiot run: something like this:
Ononokusu @Haban Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV's: 156 HP/100 Atk/174 Def/80 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Dragon Tail/Brick Break/Counter
Click to expand...

nice set man
anyway gyara with bounce and waterfall if ditto cant KO gyara with waterfall
gyara can just bounce and since hes slower thats game
lol
 
Not by far. You'd have to be running jolly, and holding a scarf to outspeed Ono after a +1. Even when running 80 speed EV's, Aianto can't outspeed.
 
AxelLow said:
Not by far. You'd have to be running jolly, and holding a scarf to outspeed Ono after a +1. Even when running 80 speed EV's, Aianto can't outspeed.
Click to expand...

That's good to know.
They can pretty OHKO each other. I OHKO'd Ono without Claw Sharpen,and he an OHKO without DD with Outrage.(I can't remember if he used a set up move though)
 
@ Bulky DD Gyara vs. Ditto: Whether or not Ditto can 1/2HKO with Waterfall isn't set-in-stone. It changes depending on the number of DDs and Gyara's HP at the time, since gyara takes damage while setting up . SR and rain/SS too, a lot of things determine how well a Ditto can steal a Gyara sweep.

If your Gyara can survive one of it's own Waterfalls, it comes down to whether or not you can KO Bulky Dittodos with Bounce. If it can, then Bounce is the right move to use.

If you can't OHKO with Bounce, you've gotta predict: If Ditto Bounces and you Bounce, you win. If Ditto Bounces and you use DD, you lose. If Ditto Waterfalls and you DD, you may have a 50/50 shot at winning. If Ditto Waterfalls and you Bounce, it's a gray area depending on what's on your team (Nattorei and Burungeru help).
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
That's good to know.
They can pretty OHKO each other. I OHKO'd Ono without Claw Sharpen,and he an OHKO without DD with Outrage.(I can't remember if he used a set up move though)
Click to expand...

Must have been standard sweepers. Either way though, Outrage shouldn't have OHKO'ed you if he had no boost. And even with boost, it wouldn't happen.

You need to watch out for bulky Ono. Im guessing running hustle, if you don't have the attack boost to take it out, it'll live through any attack form a boost form hustle. If your at +1, it's a different story in which you should have the advantage. With that said, Don't let him get +2 or you can guarantee your Aianto is dead (or damn near close to it).

Edit- Actually, Bulky Ono doesn't need any boost at all to beat Aianto. Can pretty much 2HKO it always with EQ.
 
Venomoth + Butterfly Dance + Baton Pass to Ononokusu = Rape.

Butterfly Dance raises the user's Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed stats by one stage each.

After one Butterfly Dance:
60 - 90 SPATK
70 - 105 SPDEF
97 - 145.5 SPEED

After two Butterfly Dances:
120 SPATK
140 SPDEF
194 SPEED

The butterfly dance pass is mainly for raising SPDEF and SPEED since Ononokusu has limited special options. Even with 1 butterfly dance pass Ononokusu wouldn't have to use dragon dance and can CB Outrage Sweep the enemy easily. His raised SpDEF would be higher than his Defense normally, and with 145.5 Speed little to nothing is going to out speed this guy. If you can pull off two butterfly dances, there is little to no chance of outspeeding him even with a CB. Outrage is what you and your opponent will be doing with this strategy.

With this strategy you could run this set:

Choice Band
Ability - Mold Breaker
Item - Choice Band
Nature - Adamant/Jolly
EVs - 4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
Moves - Outrage/Shadow Claw/Earthquake/Dragon Claw

Venomoth as a lead can set up at least 2 butterfly dances if the opponent sets up Rocks/spikes. It all depends if the opponent has priority moves.

This means that Ononokusu would be OU at best. Venomoth couldn't set anything up against UBER pokemon, and neither could Ninjask. By himself, Ononokusu is outsped and has low special defense, so special sweepers could end him easily even if he tried dragon dancing.

Keep in mind that you could also apply this strategy to things like Garchomp. You wouldn't have as much strength, but you would be faster and slightly bulkier than Ononokusu. Just something to keep in mind.
 
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