Not exactly. True, it struggles against Skarmory, but once it's eliminated, a lot of things get raped by Ono's Dragon Dance/Swords Dance boosted Outrages.
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Haxorus
- Thread starter R.B.G.
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it seems it was way to overhyped, i see ten times more garchomps than any kusu
Salamence was hardly used physically until Garchomp was banned. It is the speed holding this thing back. He could probably work banded just crushing things, or you could slap a scarf on him to attempt to cover up for the speed.
I've only read up to the 3rd page, having no desire to see a back-and-forth between mence, chomp, and ono, but i want to say this.
Just about all of the scarfers can be killed by one of ono's attacks. So, if you predict correctly, you can pretty easily take down the scarfer, then later dd sweep.
With skarm, fire blast and outrage. Physically, fblast. Specially, outrage. So, like 50% chance unless like mixed.
I could be wrong about that though, but it seems like ono is fine. Even nattorei can be beaten down with a life orb.
Just about all of the scarfers can be killed by one of ono's attacks. So, if you predict correctly, you can pretty easily take down the scarfer, then later dd sweep.
With skarm, fire blast and outrage. Physically, fblast. Specially, outrage. So, like 50% chance unless like mixed.
I could be wrong about that though, but it seems like ono is fine. Even nattorei can be beaten down with a life orb.
Ono doesn't get Fire Blast. The only offensive fire move it gets is Lolcinerate.
Salamence was never physical until it had outrage...
Seriously people need to stop moaning about his speed. Sure i guess dragonite somewhat warrants it but on this thing? 97 is in no way bad and while he was a little overhyped its speed isnt stopping its huge attack stat from going to town and dragon dance from working.
You know , iwas just thinking of butterfly dance passing for this guy when someone else mentioned it...
Well, it was days ago, but i saw it now.
Point is, with a butterfly dance and then a dragon dance, it's faster than other scarfers that revenge it, and breaks skarmory with special fire,.
Well, it was days ago, but i saw it now.
Point is, with a butterfly dance and then a dragon dance, it's faster than other scarfers that revenge it, and breaks skarmory with special fire,.
Naughty Onono holding Life Orb using Incinerate, no EV investment, +1 SAtk vs. Physically Defensive Skarmory -- (22.8% - 26.9%)
Naughty Onono, max Investment, with Life Orb and +1 SAtk -- (31.1% - 37.1%)
Naughty Onono w/ Life Orb, +6, no EV investment -- (59.9% - 70.7%) (With max SAtk, it does about 80-98%)
...
Jolly Onono w/ Life Orb, +1 Atk, 252 EV using Outrage, still vs. Physically Defensive Skarm -- (35.6% - 42.2%)
Bulky DD Onono w/ Haban (Jolly, 100 Atk EVs), +1 -- (24.9% - 29.3%)
Right. Even without full investment, it STILL does more damage than Incinerate. But what did you expect from a 30 BP Fire move off of a 60 Base Special Attack stat, when it DOES NOT get Flamethrower or Fire Blast? Get another Dragon Dance under your belt with Max Attack and Jolly, or use Swords Dance, and Outrage has a chance for a 2HKO, and...just read the post below mine.
Uh...it still doesn't learn any fire moves except Incinerate which is pathetic and only 30 base power. It DOES NOT learn Flamethrower or Fireblast. I love Serebii for their Pokedex and lists of moves that the Pokemon can actually learn because for some reason people still seem confused about this guy learning Fire moves (maybe because they keep running into Zoroark masquerading as the Dragon?). In the past, all dragons have essentially learned Fireblast/Flamethrower but in Black/White, this tradition among others was decided to be broken (not giving every water Icebeam, not giving every ground/rock Stone Edge, etc. The movepools of most of the new Pokemon are quite small in comparison to previous generations. But some are so powerful like Reshiram/Zekrom, who cares if you cover everything?).
It'd be far better to pass Rock Polish and speed boosts than Butterfly Dance who you'd rather pass to an actual special attacker like Nidoking special/mix, Dragonite special/mix, Tyranitar special/mix, Togekiss, and so forth. I can't think of good things to pass Buttefly Dance to pass to right now. But still, why pass Butterfly Dance to Ono when you can use Blaziken (who will take care of steels and bulky ground types and who actually seems like a very good partner now) to Speed Boost Baton Pass and help wallbreak for Oko sweep? Blaziken could also pass Swords Dance bonuses so after +1 Spd and +2 Atk, Ono will tear things apart, especially since you can use your own Swords Dances and Dragon Dances. Just get rid of Ditto who is a mean thing when it steals your boosts and you don't want to be mirror Oko swept.
Ono is over and under rated at the same time. His speed is almost perfect and his attack is phenomenal and is the OU version of Rayquaza physical variants although without the Stealth Rock weakness, 4X Ice weakness, or on the downside, the inability to blast out fire moves. But Taunt/Dragon Tail could help against Skarmory and others and Outrage will annhilate almost everything. Interestingly, Ook does have a higher speed than Rayquaza which means nothing really seeing as Rayquaza is obviously superior, just random interesting tidbit. Ook is always compared to Salamence and Garchomp which he really shouldn't because most people use Garchomp as a Choice Scarf revenge killer now (although Swords Dance is still scary, but more things outrun it now and Garchomp is one of the best revenge killers) and Salamence is rarely if ever seen with the presence of Garchomp who would revenge kill him even after a Dragon Dance. Salamence is also threatened by Sazandora since Sazondora often runs the mix and special sets better than Salamence which gives less reason to use Salamence. But Salamence is still a fearsome dragon who outspeeds the new ones but being outclassed at what he used to do really well (Dragon Dance, Mix Dance, and Mix variants) makes him sad. Worse is Porygon 2's defense boost and Salamence is pretty much gone which is ironic from the near uber status he had in gen 4.
So if Ook dragon can't be compared to Salamence/Garchomp (and why compare to something that is used only sometimes now?) it has it's own niche as a Dragon in OU who can both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance and run Taunt. Swords Dance Outrage 2 hit koes even Skarmory which deserves applause since Taunt prevents Whirlwind. Dragon Dance it to run bulk and still outspeed things after two Dragon Dances. Erufuun is not fun to run into on, but one should never start setting up right away and scout for that before hand with an attack since Erufuun has a nasty (and dangerous for it since it becomes kind of predictable) of switching in on set up sweepers right away.
Choice Band Ono is also decent because it is perfect stats for a Choice Band and ability although I am not particularly fond of having to give up it's ability to use Dragon/Swords Dance which is what seperates it from other dragons. But it works, just don't like it myself when Swords Dance will crush everything in 1-2 hits and it isn't that slow once the faster things are gone.
I happen to like this guy, pretty threatening and he looks awesome and it is a rare pure Dragon type which is good for no 4x Ice weakness although things like Dragonite and Salamence actually like their Dragon/Flying due to resistances from Fighting/Bug they get that allow them to switch in on those and start setting up or launching Draco Meteors. Sazandora really hates it's fighting and bug weaknesses for example. Dragonite and Salamence however are bulkier Dragon types that use resistances and recovery and ability to set up multiple Dragon Dances while Ook uses it's power to smash through things right away (Salamence can as well, it's just a slightly bulkier on the physical side smashing and can go special) and hopes to Dragon Dance/Swords Dance which it does. Dragon type seems better for Ook but Dragonite/Salamence seem to prefer the Flying as well for their bulkiness. And Dragonite has Multi-Scale which can make Dragonite really bulky without Stealth Rock as well as do other cool niches like play in Rain and Extremespeed wallbreaker, etc.
Still, Ook has the ability to smash through things, and one should use that to full advantage of it's pure Dragon typing. He really isn't that bad, it's just Choice Scarfers tend to threaten him and Ditto and Erufuun are evil.
It'd be far better to pass Rock Polish and speed boosts than Butterfly Dance who you'd rather pass to an actual special attacker like Nidoking special/mix, Dragonite special/mix, Tyranitar special/mix, Togekiss, and so forth. I can't think of good things to pass Buttefly Dance to pass to right now. But still, why pass Butterfly Dance to Ono when you can use Blaziken (who will take care of steels and bulky ground types and who actually seems like a very good partner now) to Speed Boost Baton Pass and help wallbreak for Oko sweep? Blaziken could also pass Swords Dance bonuses so after +1 Spd and +2 Atk, Ono will tear things apart, especially since you can use your own Swords Dances and Dragon Dances. Just get rid of Ditto who is a mean thing when it steals your boosts and you don't want to be mirror Oko swept.
Ono is over and under rated at the same time. His speed is almost perfect and his attack is phenomenal and is the OU version of Rayquaza physical variants although without the Stealth Rock weakness, 4X Ice weakness, or on the downside, the inability to blast out fire moves. But Taunt/Dragon Tail could help against Skarmory and others and Outrage will annhilate almost everything. Interestingly, Ook does have a higher speed than Rayquaza which means nothing really seeing as Rayquaza is obviously superior, just random interesting tidbit. Ook is always compared to Salamence and Garchomp which he really shouldn't because most people use Garchomp as a Choice Scarf revenge killer now (although Swords Dance is still scary, but more things outrun it now and Garchomp is one of the best revenge killers) and Salamence is rarely if ever seen with the presence of Garchomp who would revenge kill him even after a Dragon Dance. Salamence is also threatened by Sazandora since Sazondora often runs the mix and special sets better than Salamence which gives less reason to use Salamence. But Salamence is still a fearsome dragon who outspeeds the new ones but being outclassed at what he used to do really well (Dragon Dance, Mix Dance, and Mix variants) makes him sad. Worse is Porygon 2's defense boost and Salamence is pretty much gone which is ironic from the near uber status he had in gen 4.
So if Ook dragon can't be compared to Salamence/Garchomp (and why compare to something that is used only sometimes now?) it has it's own niche as a Dragon in OU who can both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance and run Taunt. Swords Dance Outrage 2 hit koes even Skarmory which deserves applause since Taunt prevents Whirlwind. Dragon Dance it to run bulk and still outspeed things after two Dragon Dances. Erufuun is not fun to run into on, but one should never start setting up right away and scout for that before hand with an attack since Erufuun has a nasty (and dangerous for it since it becomes kind of predictable) of switching in on set up sweepers right away.
Choice Band Ono is also decent because it is perfect stats for a Choice Band and ability although I am not particularly fond of having to give up it's ability to use Dragon/Swords Dance which is what seperates it from other dragons. But it works, just don't like it myself when Swords Dance will crush everything in 1-2 hits and it isn't that slow once the faster things are gone.
I happen to like this guy, pretty threatening and he looks awesome and it is a rare pure Dragon type which is good for no 4x Ice weakness although things like Dragonite and Salamence actually like their Dragon/Flying due to resistances from Fighting/Bug they get that allow them to switch in on those and start setting up or launching Draco Meteors. Sazandora really hates it's fighting and bug weaknesses for example. Dragonite and Salamence however are bulkier Dragon types that use resistances and recovery and ability to set up multiple Dragon Dances while Ook uses it's power to smash through things right away (Salamence can as well, it's just a slightly bulkier on the physical side smashing and can go special) and hopes to Dragon Dance/Swords Dance which it does. Dragon type seems better for Ook but Dragonite/Salamence seem to prefer the Flying as well for their bulkiness. And Dragonite has Multi-Scale which can make Dragonite really bulky without Stealth Rock as well as do other cool niches like play in Rain and Extremespeed wallbreaker, etc.
Still, Ook has the ability to smash through things, and one should use that to full advantage of it's pure Dragon typing. He really isn't that bad, it's just Choice Scarfers tend to threaten him and Ditto and Erufuun are evil.
Wasn't there a Pre-Platinum Dragon Dance/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Roost or Stone Edge for Gyrados and Zapdos set?
Dragonite at least is pretty bulky and easily sets up multiple Dragon Dances and Roost. Multi-Scale works at full health and as long as Stealth Rock isn't down, it won't go down easy. Multi-Scale is in general better for almost every Dragonite as Inner Focus doesn't seem to help that much except against Kojondo, Infernape, and Ambipom as well as random Rock Slide/Waterfall potentials. Hmm...still, Multi-Scale is probably better most of the time.
It seems some of you haven't read the thread you're posting in. Please do so, and you'll find some reasonable argument on Ono's merits, its flaws, and why you'd want to use it over Salamence, Garchomp, or Dragonite. It also contains a few good set ideas for Ononokusu.
Butterfly Dance passing is a terrible idea. If you would read the other posts below where the original poster suggested Butterfly Dance passing, you would receive a thorough explanation of why it's so bad. Fluffy Otters also made a good argument, and suggested Blaziken as a Baton Passer, which is a great idea, considering Ono's Dragon typing allows it to switch in on a move that would threaten Blaziken.
One thing I want people to note; I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ono's SD set is not walled by Skarmory. 2HKOed=/=effectively walled and is in fact the opposite. It can then proceed to wreck the rest of the opponent's team. DD sets, especially semi-bulky ones, can find themselves in a pinch against Skarmory, but SD sets do not.
Choice Band sets are a great idea, and are in fact listed on reyscarface's unofficial analysis for Ononokusu (here). Although Dragon Tail seems like a good idea, Ono lacks the bulk needed to use it effectively. An example of good users of Dragon Tail would be Gyarados, a pokemon that can easily take a hit and hit hard back while phazing out.
As for the prevalence of Ononokusu in relation to the other dragons on simulators, of course Ono will see little use in the beginning. With monsters like Garchomp unbanned, of course no one will want to use something as relatively unthreatening as Ononokusu. Once the metagame has developed and the broken pokemon banned (Chomp and Mence might not necessarily be banned), Ononokusu will begin to be used as it's meant to be used: as a bone-crushingly powerful wallbreaker, or an incredibly strong Choice Bander, or whatever uses anyone else might find for him. I've found some decent success using Ononokusu on PO, although I've only used the SD sets so far. If you don't immediately write Ono off as a bad pokemon because of its lower speed and defenses in relation to the other dragons, you'll begin to see its usefulness and appreciate it for its merits, namely its huge attack. Although Ono can't sweep as easily, it can attack with much more force than comparable dragons.
Butterfly Dance passing is a terrible idea. If you would read the other posts below where the original poster suggested Butterfly Dance passing, you would receive a thorough explanation of why it's so bad. Fluffy Otters also made a good argument, and suggested Blaziken as a Baton Passer, which is a great idea, considering Ono's Dragon typing allows it to switch in on a move that would threaten Blaziken.
One thing I want people to note; I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ono's SD set is not walled by Skarmory. 2HKOed=/=effectively walled and is in fact the opposite. It can then proceed to wreck the rest of the opponent's team. DD sets, especially semi-bulky ones, can find themselves in a pinch against Skarmory, but SD sets do not.
Choice Band sets are a great idea, and are in fact listed on reyscarface's unofficial analysis for Ononokusu (here). Although Dragon Tail seems like a good idea, Ono lacks the bulk needed to use it effectively. An example of good users of Dragon Tail would be Gyarados, a pokemon that can easily take a hit and hit hard back while phazing out.
As for the prevalence of Ononokusu in relation to the other dragons on simulators, of course Ono will see little use in the beginning. With monsters like Garchomp unbanned, of course no one will want to use something as relatively unthreatening as Ononokusu. Once the metagame has developed and the broken pokemon banned (Chomp and Mence might not necessarily be banned), Ononokusu will begin to be used as it's meant to be used: as a bone-crushingly powerful wallbreaker, or an incredibly strong Choice Bander, or whatever uses anyone else might find for him. I've found some decent success using Ononokusu on PO, although I've only used the SD sets so far. If you don't immediately write Ono off as a bad pokemon because of its lower speed and defenses in relation to the other dragons, you'll begin to see its usefulness and appreciate it for its merits, namely its huge attack. Although Ono can't sweep as easily, it can attack with much more force than comparable dragons.
My favorite moveset for Ononokusu:
Ononokusu (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Reversal
Ononokusu (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Reversal
why have reversal? you also have two dragon attacks which limits its variety of pokemon it can attack. with doing this you'll have 2 free moves which can be used to cover more types.
That's because Garchomp is really, really good, even if he's not as dominant as Gen #4.
Ono doesn't have to be better then Chomp or Mence or Nite or Sazandora or even Kingdra to be a good choice if used right. and it's not hard to find a correct use for an Attack stat like this one.
What other moves are you going to use? All that's left is Stone Edge, and I'd just replace that with Reversal.
Having another dragon move besides Outrage allows you to switch out freely when you need to, while Outrage forces you to stay in which may cost you your Ono. Outrage is usually used when you want to KO more than one guy and are confident in atleast denting stuff in. I don't see the point of reversal though, Brick Break is probably better for me, I like to break Reflects and Light Screens.
i was thinking stone edge and night slash. i forgot his movepool isn't as big as most dragons.
that's not exactly helping him.
as you said it's the other dragons that really put him down in general due to his speed for the most part. scarf could work but probably not as the "other" dragons use scarf a lot better. well, no other dragons use scarf commonly and this would screw onono nonetheless.
Reversal is there because there's literally no better option for the last move. Ononokusu unfortunately does not learn Stone Edge, and Night Slash, Shadow Claw, X-Scissor, Rock Slide and Brick Break are all bad options for Ononokusu, as a neutral Outrage deals more damage than a super-effective hit from any of the aforementioned moves, while even a not-very-effective Outrage deals more damage than a neutral hit from any of those moves. Reversal is my move of choice as it can actually be stronger than Outrage at lower health.
I think this guy has Choice Bander written all over him with that monstrous 147 attack. Swords Dance and Dragon Dance are both done better by Garchomp and Salamence respectively. I think his biggest selling point will be the ability to do monstrous damage right off the bat with that huge attack stat
Maybe a set of
Ononokusu-Choice Band
Adamant
252 Attack and either max speed or a mix between hp and speed EVs
Dragon Claw
Outrage
Earthquake
Night Slash/Rock Slide
I can see this poking major holes in opponents teams
Edit: my bad, I thought I saw Stone Edge in the level up moves
Maybe a set of
Ononokusu-Choice Band
Adamant
252 Attack and either max speed or a mix between hp and speed EVs
Dragon Claw
Outrage
Earthquake
Night Slash/Rock Slide
I can see this poking major holes in opponents teams
Edit: my bad, I thought I saw Stone Edge in the level up moves
Why use those moves when a neutral Outrage does more damage than a super-effective hit from them though?
I prefer Choice Scarf. The people who are saying that Garchomp uses this item better in every way must remember that Ononokusu's Attack stat is significantly higher than that of Garchomp. With 252 EVs in Attack and Speed as well as a Jolly nature, its Speed is above 300, while its Attack reachers 393, higher than that of an Adamant Gyarados! This means that an Outrage coming from this Pokémon is actually stronger than even a Waterfall from a Gyarados with one Dragon Dance.
I prefer Choice Scarf. The people who are saying that Garchomp uses this item better in every way must remember that Ononokusu's Attack stat is significantly higher than that of Garchomp. With 252 EVs in Attack and Speed as well as a Jolly nature, its Speed is above 300, while its Attack reachers 393, higher than that of an Adamant Gyarados! This means that an Outrage coming from this Pokémon is actually stronger than even a Waterfall from a Gyarados with one Dragon Dance.
They're mostly filler. Ononokusu's movepool isn't the greatest and he does need four attacks. I guess Night Slash could be used to hit ghosts without locking yourself in, but it's mostly filler.
Idk I'd still rather use Garchomp for choice scarf. Garchomp can revenge kill +1 base 100s, Ononokusu can't. I can see how the extra attack would be attractive though.
I don't think I've posted here yet so I'll post here now.
I think this may be the only pseudo-legend (yes it is a pseudo legend in my eyes; 540 base is close enough) to be BL in this gen. While its main disability may seem to be (at first) its 98 base speed, looking further shows that its true flaw is in its positively godawful movepool.
To put it simply, its whole good movepool consists of Outrage, EQ, SD/DD, and worthless filler. There is nothing to put in that last slot, really, and that's what sets it apart. Unlike mence and all of the other dragons, it has absolutely nothing to get past Skarmory or - even worse - Scizor. Sure Outrage from Rayquaza essentially hurts like hell, but it really doesn't to most steel types.
I mean for god's sake even Altaria has fire blast :\
I think this may be the only pseudo-legend (yes it is a pseudo legend in my eyes; 540 base is close enough) to be BL in this gen. While its main disability may seem to be (at first) its 98 base speed, looking further shows that its true flaw is in its positively godawful movepool.
To put it simply, its whole good movepool consists of Outrage, EQ, SD/DD, and worthless filler. There is nothing to put in that last slot, really, and that's what sets it apart. Unlike mence and all of the other dragons, it has absolutely nothing to get past Skarmory or - even worse - Scizor. Sure Outrage from Rayquaza essentially hurts like hell, but it really doesn't to most steel types.
I mean for god's sake even Altaria has fire blast :\