Shandera is too frail for a supporting role,sadly.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
Shandera is too frail for a supporting role,sadly.
Shandera may be a bit limited in the supporting department, but its defenses are not "frail", in that sense. It has decent defenses and defensive typing to take advantage of slower Pokemon that would threaten your team. It may have base 80 Speed, but Shandera could be the line between surviving or dying a Breloom assault by resisting Bullet Seed and KOing with a Fire-type move.
If Shandera takes on anything slower, it can simply use Will-o-wisp to cripple them for the rest of the match. It doesn't stop there. Shandera can also use Taunt to shut down support Pokemon and use its choice of move to further cripple them. Don't discount Shandera as a supportive threat too much, because it has much to do with decent speed, good support moves, and a still great Special Attack, even if uninvested. Provided Shadnera with Shadow Tag is released, Blissey struggles to play against Toxic Shandera, if it uses it.
Also, competitive topic. Don't go too off topic because things like Shedinja are destined to make topics jokes.
If Shandera takes on anything slower, it can simply use Will-o-wisp to cripple them for the rest of the match. It doesn't stop there. Shandera can also use Taunt to shut down support Pokemon and use its choice of move to further cripple them. Don't discount Shandera as a supportive threat too much, because it has much to do with decent speed, good support moves, and a still great Special Attack, even if uninvested. Provided Shadnera with Shadow Tag is released, Blissey struggles to play against Toxic Shandera, if it uses it.
Also, competitive topic. Don't go too off topic because things like Shedinja are destined to make topics jokes.
i realized with shadow tag it becomes a counter to the usual pokemon that carry spikes( skarmory, forretres and i guess nattorei). its basically a nightmare to stalling steel pokemon and can also be a counter to scizor.
The usual spikers are given a particularly hard time by Shandera. This makes it a great teammate to Scizor. Scizor doesn't have to worry about spikes, and it can pull off a U-Turn to trapping combo. In addition, if you choose Flash Fire on Shandera, you can absorb Scizor's fire attacks.
yea i used this kind of combo with heatran in the 4th gen, but using flash fire also allows your opponent to switch out to a pokemon who can handle shandeera.
hmm...
32 pages, i'm not going to read all that lol
So, anyone here had the impression that Shandera is a... prime target of Butterfly Dance passing? (especially with Flash Fire).
145 base SpA means Shandy will hurt basically anything, Flash Fire means it can get a boost (since Venomoth is the one who's passing the boosts)and a free switch, immunity to Mach Punch and Extremespeed (the two most used priority moves), hurts like no one, boosted Fire Blast decimates nearly everything etc.
Seems a good use for Flash Fire Shandera for me.
32 pages, i'm not going to read all that lol
So, anyone here had the impression that Shandera is a... prime target of Butterfly Dance passing? (especially with Flash Fire).
145 base SpA means Shandy will hurt basically anything, Flash Fire means it can get a boost (since Venomoth is the one who's passing the boosts)and a free switch, immunity to Mach Punch and Extremespeed (the two most used priority moves), hurts like no one, boosted Fire Blast decimates nearly everything etc.
Seems a good use for Flash Fire Shandera for me.
Just saying, Trick Room Shandy is the shit. Come in a fire move for a free boost (I use Flash Fire), set up trick room as they switch out.
Shandera 248 hp / 252 sp atk / 8 def @ Expert Belt (yay, assuming no other damage, I can take 4 stealth rocks and survive at 1hp).
Quiet Nature
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Hidden Power Fighting
~Trick Room
I also pointed out a nice Balloon set somewhere around page 14.
Shandera 248 hp / 252 sp atk / 8 def @ Expert Belt (yay, assuming no other damage, I can take 4 stealth rocks and survive at 1hp).
Quiet Nature
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Hidden Power Fighting
~Trick Room
I also pointed out a nice Balloon set somewhere around page 14.
That's very true, It would also make a great revenge killer on ALL those pokemon and more especially since a lot of leads in the OU tier are steel types. I guess one steel type it would have to at least keep an eye out for is aqua jet empoleon, being how it gets a stab and its a priority move.
with shadow tag, how about
calm mind, acid armor, rest, hidden power.
switch in on something that cant hurt u and power up.
u need hidden power b/c all it only knows fire, ghost, ,grass, and poision type moves, which can be nulled when facing one with an immunity. darn u herbivore.
the challenge is in getting a hidden power type that hit all regardless of type and ability(dark,bug,ice,rock,steel). Oh, there's shedinja. ehh..that narrows it to dark and rock. a hard set to get but killer once obtained.
calm mind, acid armor, rest, hidden power.
switch in on something that cant hurt u and power up.
u need hidden power b/c all it only knows fire, ghost, ,grass, and poision type moves, which can be nulled when facing one with an immunity. darn u herbivore.
the challenge is in getting a hidden power type that hit all regardless of type and ability(dark,bug,ice,rock,steel). Oh, there's shedinja. ehh..that narrows it to dark and rock. a hard set to get but killer once obtained.
It should also keep watch for heatran, because it would do shit unless it has hidden power earth
you can't assume that everyone's gonna be throwing out Fire-type choiced attacks. Honestly, Shandera is so frail that most attackers carrying a roct, ghost, or ground type move will KO you before you set up TR
Then again, you'd be surprised by the amount of people that switch to a counter (instead of going for the SE move), since Flash Fire Shandy DOES have counters. This walls most Urugamoth sets badly, which is always nice.
Yo. See those 60/90/90 Defenses?
Assuming no investment:
Scarfchomp's Outrage: 81.7% - 96.6%
Quagsire's EQ: 78.6% - 93.9%
Crocune's Surf: 77.9% - 92.4%
Tentacruel's Surf: 71.3% - 85.1%
Shandera does have a lot of weaknesses, including SR, but its inherent defenses are by no means bad. If you have a good spinner or manage to trap something before SR goes up (including the SR user itself!), you'll be surprised to find out just how bulky it is.
Shandera makes a really cool suicide Trick Roomer.
Shandera@Life Orb
Shadow Tag
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA 0 IV
Quiet
Trick Room
Overheat
Shadow Ball
Memento
EVs help it take a hit for using Trick Room, after that, you can fire off an absurdly powerful Overheat. Overheat is recommended since you're going to die anyway so the Special attack drops won't matter. Once Shandera has gotten its kill and/or is about to die, Memento sacrifices Shandera and sharply lowers the targets offensive stats, and it can scout the move, so you can bring in another Pokemon to set up the match in your favor.
Shandera@Life Orb
Shadow Tag
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA 0 IV
Quiet
Trick Room
Overheat
Shadow Ball
Memento
EVs help it take a hit for using Trick Room, after that, you can fire off an absurdly powerful Overheat. Overheat is recommended since you're going to die anyway so the Special attack drops won't matter. Once Shandera has gotten its kill and/or is about to die, Memento sacrifices Shandera and sharply lowers the targets offensive stats, and it can scout the move, so you can bring in another Pokemon to set up the match in your favor.
all ko's with stealth rock
HP ground? Heatran has Earth Power you know, and uses it almost always too.
Yup.This thing has horrible defenses, and without Shadow Tag it is a horrible,horrible Pokemon.Once everything settles down don't be surprised to see this in bottom NU.
Your starting this shit again...REALLY!? -__-
Ok clearly a troll guys, don't feed it.
Unfortunately, I don't see shanderaa countering breloom any time soon (unless you don't mind switching into a stone edge). Actually, I'm pretty sure that after stealth rock damage, stone edge will actually OHKO shanderaa.
Don't most techiloom carry;
Spore
Sub
Bullet seed
Mach punch?( or am I just a theorymoning retard)
Unless your talking about swords dance/focus pawnch brelooms...which in that case your most likely right.
Spore
Sub
Bullet seed
Mach punch?( or am I just a theorymoning retard)
Unless your talking about swords dance/focus pawnch brelooms...which in that case your most likely right.
I think a Taunt set in non-DW OU could be viable to beat Blissey/Evo-Stone Chansey, similar to Heatran in DP. Being immune to S-toss and taking pittance from Ice Beam, Taunt Shandera can easily sit there and chip away once they lose their recovery. It may not be able to trap with Magma Storm and get the guaranteed KO, but it still could be used as a general anti-stall weapon by forcing out their main special wall and unleashing that base 145 SpAtk on other members. Shadow Tag is a whole different story....
Probably merits some consideration, yes. Im wondering how it would compare to a SubSplit set ala gengar, with more power and bulk over the speed.
No, most Technilooms actually have Swords Dance over Substitute. Stone Edge isn't the most common move, but it's not incredibly rare, either.
Assuming that Shandera has no defensive EVs, Stone Edge will always OHKO it, even if the Breloom has no boosts and SR isn't up. You're generally wrong about Shandera not "countering" Breloom since most don't carry SE, but if you really are that scared of Stone Edge, you should use it to revenge kill Breloom (who won't be able to escape at all, unless you're using the same gimmicky Shed Shell Breloom I am). Honestly, revenge killing is what Shandera was made for - that, and maybe picking off weakened opponents. If your opponent doesn't know that you're carrying a Shandera, they will probably not use Stone Edge anyway, which means that taking care of Breloom early on in the match is pretty easy to do.