Chandelure

[Kefka Palazzo™]

I didn't say useless, no Pokemon is "useless".I am saying Shandera is a terrible Pokemon..Which it is and the only reason to use it is because of Shadow Tag which is inherently broken.

I'm sure you can find a set for Flash Fire Shandera to be useful in the team, that doesn't change the fact that is a terrible Pokemon.Same how Butterfree has Sleep Powder and with Choice Scarf it will do something, but you could just as easily use Breloom or Darkrai if wanting to use something that can abuse sleep.

I COULD use Gengar,but I want the Fire immunity.
I COULD use Heatran,but I also want the Fighting immunity.
Which mon has both?
Shandera.
Along with higher speed than Heatran and more power than Gengar.
Shandera can fill a role neither of them can,even without Shadow Tag.

 

[some hero]

I COULD use Gengar,but I want the Fire immunity.
I COULD use Heatran,but I also want the Fighting immunity.
Which mon has both?
Shandera.
Along with higher speed than Heatran and more power than Gengar.
Shandera can fill a role neither of them can,even without Shadow Tag.

lol go ahead use Shandera.I'm not trying to stop you.That still doesn't change the fact that it is a terrible Pokemon.

Yeah i want my team to be even weaker to Tyranitar.

Yeah i want to have another Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock and Earthquake.

Yeah i want another Pokemon weak to water.

Yeah i want a Ghost Pokemon that can't do anything to Blaziken.

Using Choice Scarf?Blaziken can just switch out.Flash Fire Shandera can't do shit to Blaziken.Not saying it can't kill it but Blaziken can switch out or just beat it with Protect..

Shandera is a horrible Pokemon through and through and should not be used where Shadow Tag is not available.Tyranitar and Sand rule the Wi Fi and Flash Fire Shandera is a complete joke there.

 

[Benlisted]

lol go ahead use Shandera.I'm not trying to stop you.That still doesn't change the fact that it is a terrible Pokemon.

Yeah i want my team to be even weaker to Tyranitar.

HP Fighting says hi.

Yeah i want to have another Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock and Earthquake.

Balloon/switching and spinning says hi.

Yeah i want another Pokemon weak to water.

The rest of your team says hi, as does switching.

Yeah i want a Ghost Pokemon that can't do anything to Blaziken.

Which ghosts exactly can do much to the chicken when boosted?

Using Choice Scarf?Blaziken can just switch out.Flash Fire Shandera can't do shit to Blaziken.Not saying it can't kill it but Blaziken can switch out or just beat it with Protect..

Again, enlighten me as to what ST Shandy is supposed to do to Blaziken either.

Shandera is a horrible Pokemon through and through and should not be used where Shadow Tag is not available. Tyranitar and Sand rule the Wi Fi and Flash Fire Shandera is a complete joke there.

Responses bolded.

 

[Danmire]

Benlisted beat me to it.

lol go ahead use Shandera.I'm not trying to stop you.That still doesn't change the fact that it is a terrible Pokemon.

Yeah i want my team to be even weaker to Tyranitar.

Yeah i want to have another Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock and Earthquake.

Yeah i want another Pokemon weak to water.

Yeah i want a Ghost Pokemon that can't do anything to Blaziken.

Using Choice Scarf?Blaziken can just switch out.Flash Fire Shandera can't do shit to Blaziken.Not saying it can't kill it but Blaziken can switch out or just beat it with Protect..

Shandera is a horrible Pokemon through and through and should not be used where Shadow Tag is not available.Tyranitar and Sand rule the Wi Fi and Flash Fire Shandera is a complete joke there.

You keep saying that Shandera is a horrible Pokemon, but the way you say it, it's like it's the only one battling. That's why you have "teammates".

 

[Trucy]

You could have done better using Heatran instead.Like i said, there will be people who use it but eventually once everything settles down people will realize just how much it sucks.

Shandera is a terrible,teriible Pokemon..I'm just ahead of the curve and realized this earlier than everyone else.

lol go ahead use Shandera.I'm not trying to stop you.That still doesn't change the fact that it is a terrible Pokemon.

Yeah i want my team to be even weaker to Tyranitar.

Yeah i want to have another Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock and Earthquake.

Yeah i want another Pokemon weak to water.

Yeah i want a Ghost Pokemon that can't do anything to Blaziken.

Using Choice Scarf?Blaziken can just switch out.Flash Fire Shandera can't do shit to Blaziken.Not saying it can't kill it but Blaziken can switch out or just beat it with Protect..

Shandera is a horrible Pokemon through and through and should not be used where Shadow Tag is not available.Tyranitar and Sand rule the Wi Fi and Flash Fire Shandera is a complete joke there.

What's this?

You advocate using Heatran instead and then provide reasons where Heatran is just as useless if not more so than Shanderaa? Oh you don't want to be weak to T-tar, so just ignore the fact that Modest Life Orb Shanderaa can OHKO T-tar with HP Fighting whereas Heatran cannot boast the same with Earth Power.

Also everything that Benlisted said.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

lol go ahead use Shandera.I'm not trying to stop you.That still doesn't change the fact that it is a terrible Pokemon.

Yeah i want my team to be even weaker to Tyranitar. FYI,HP Fighting exists and an easily OHKO T-tar.

Yeah i want to have another Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock and Earthquake. 25%? That's fine if you have a scarf.
EQ? Don't use Shandera if you're going to stupidly switch into an EQ.

Yeah i want another Pokemon weak to water. Energy Ball exists. Bulky Waters are trouble for everything either way.

Yeah i want a Ghost Pokemon that can't do anything to Blaziken.
Lol? At +1 it's a speed tie IIRC(and you have a scarf),and Shadow Ball is a OHKO. It's a gamble for both players.

Using Choice Scarf?Blaziken can just switch out.Flash Fire Shandera can't do shit to Blaziken.Not saying it can't kill it but Blaziken can switch out or just beat it with Protect..

Read above.
Also,who's to say Shadow Ball or Overheat wont kill what ever you switch in? Ya,I'm pretty sure Overheat OHKOs too considering Blaziken's frailty.

Shandera is a horrible Pokemon through and through and should not be used where Shadow Tag is not available.Tyranitar and Sand rule the Wi Fi and Flash Fire Shandera is a complete joke there.

You're just acting stupid really.
You pretend Shandera must have NO weaknesses AT ALL to be good.
Bulky Waters? Everyone has trouble with them. Shandera CAN use Energy Ball to do good damage though.
EQ and SR? 25% HP is NOTHING if you're using Shandera to revenge. If you switch into EQ,that's your own damn fault.
Water? Switching in to a water attack is your own damn fault.

Learn to play around a mon's weaknesses and Shandera wont seem inferior to Gengar or Heatran.
Those extra points in power and extra immunities MEAN a difference believe it or not.

 

[some hero]

HP Fighting says hi.

Cool!Does that mean Shandera isn't scared of Tyranitar anyomre?Nope.Almost every Pokemon can run an answer to one of their counters..Doesn't make it any good.



ghosts exactly can do much to the chicken when boosted?


Again, enlighten me as to what ST Shandy is supposed to do to Blaziken either.

You haven't used Blaziken much..?In the DW tier i have to run 252 speed EVs or Protect.Protect sucks so i have to rely on a speed tie..That's a horrible thing.Against Flash Fire Shandera i can just switch and laugh that the other guy is using Flash Fire Shandera.

Get it?Shadow Tag is broken and its hell facing it every time..On the other hand, Flash Fire Shandera is always a good thing to see.The other guy wasted a team slot on an easily beat Pokemon.Same how in the 4th Gen i would laugh/smile when i would see Yanmega being used..ahahhaha

Responses underlined.

 

[TLK]

Shandera has weaknesses and a couple of counters (with Flash Fire), ergo it is a TERRIBLE POKEMON.

Clearly.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Benlisted
HP Fighting says hi.

Cool!Does that mean Shandera isn't scared of Tyranitar anyomre?Nope.Almost every Pokemon can run an answer to one of their counters..Doesn't make it any good.



ghosts exactly can do much to the chicken when boosted?


Again, enlighten me as to what ST Shandy is supposed to do to Blaziken either.

You haven't used Blaziken much..?In the DW tier i have to run 252 speed EVs or Protect.Protect sucks so i have to rely on a speed tie..That's a horrible thing.Against Flash Fire Shandera i can just switch and laugh that the other guy is using Flash Fire Shandera.

Get it?Shadow Tag is broken and its hell facing it every time..On the other hand, Flash Fire Shandera is always a good thing to see.The other guy wasted a team slot on an easily beat Pokemon.Same how in the 4th Gen i would laugh/smile when i would see Yanmega being used..ahahhaha



Responses underlined.

>.>
Stop being stupid.
1.LOTS of pokemon have NO answer against their counters,yet their used.
T-tar has a 4x weakness against fighting and his only saving grace is an easily broken focus sash,yet he's used ALL the time. It didn't stop him from being good.

2.If it's a SPEED TIE with Blaziken,you risk just as much as the Shandera.

 

[Bologo]

I've been using Shandera on my Standard OU team, and it's still really good, even without Shadow Tag. I still use the Scarf version, because it's still a really good spinblocker, and his Overheats are still coming off of 145 base Special Attack, only 5 less than Dialga's. In fact, even without Shadow Tag, you can still hit the switch-in really hard, which can put just as much pressure on the opponent.

Fire/Fighting/Normal immunity in addition to Grass/Ice/Poison/Steel/Bug(4x) resistances is still really good. That's 3 immunities and 5 resistances if he has Flash Fire. That's a set of resistances that I'd expect from a Steel-type.

3 immunities is great for a Choice user, and his unique set of resistances can still help him be the glue for a team, regardless of the SR weak. While he's similar to Heatran, he's also quite different.

- Shandera has a Normal/Fighting immunity, with no 4x weak to Ground
- He has a useful secondary STAB, and anything resistant to Fire/Ghost is weak to HP Fighting
- He's faster
- Hits harder
- Has Calm Mind for non-scarf sets
- Blocks Rapid Spin while taking out a large amount of the Rapid Spinners

Those are some reasons to use Shandera over Heatran, and there are many more reasons to use Shandera over Gengar, with one of them being that Shandera's much bulkier than Gengar, plus the useful secondary STAB.

I personally used Shandera on my team because I needed someone to patch up the Fire/Fighting weakness and also needed a spinblocker with just one slot left on my team. Hence, I needed something that could do both, and Shandera was the only one who could fit the bill, so I picked him. The fact that he made it through the team cuts on my team meant that he didn't totally suck balls at his job either.

--

some hero, maybe if there's this many people disagreeing with you, maybe...just maybe, you're actually being too close-minded?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Hey guys I've heard Tyranitar has six weakness and shit Speed, is it bad????

 

[TLK]

Hey guys I've heard Tyranitar has six weakness and shit Speed, is it bad????

Terrible.

Without Sandstream it'd be NU, definitely.

 

[Benlisted]

@some hero:

Hp Fight is a move used on many pokes for many reasons - killing TTar isn't the only one, it has other utility and great coverage with Ghost. And yes, that does mean Shandy isn't scard of anything but ScarfTar actually, as it OHKOs every single variant with it.

As for Blaziken, i have indeed used it to great effect. Blaziken instantly beats any Shandy without a scarf, so with ST you get a chance at a speed tie, and with FF yes you can switch out, but unless you have a blissey you're gonna have a hard time guessing which move it'll use since it rarely runs anything SE and Shadow Ball is sufficient to KO. You also just revealed your Blaziken and part of its set, so your opponent knows how to respond next time you send it out.

In any case, Shanderaa is not a very good Blaziken counter with any set due to it losing outright to any with Protect and risking being KOed by it due to the speed tie, so its a moot point to argue.

I'd love it if you could respond to my other points about covering its weaknesses with the rest of your team.

 

[muffinhead]

The funny thing is, Shandera does quite well in VGC 2011, despite its weaknesses to 3 of the most common multi-target attacks. Heat Wave does insane damage to everything.
Keep in mind that OU is not the only tier.

 

[KingEmpoleon]

some hero, you are out of your fucking mind if you're under the illusion that Shandera is bad because it has a few weaknesses and some counters. So what? That doesn't automatically make it bad.

...

I can't believe I'm responding to a guy who's obviously trolling.

^_^

 

[masterful]

I COULD use Gengar,but I want the Fire immunity.
I COULD use Heatran,but I also want the Fighting immunity.
Which mon has both?
Shandera.
Along with higher speed than Heatran and more power than Gengar.
Shandera can fill a role neither of them can,even without Shadow Tag.

But who uses Heatran just for a Fire immunity? It has resistances and bulk, something Shandera certainly does not possess
I f you really don't like Infernape, then yeah, use Scarf Shandera, but really, it iisn't that useful, cuz it can't take advantage of its immunities

 

[blasphemy1]

Shandera @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EV: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball / Toxic

Basically this works like Gengar + Heatran. You get the Fire immunity and Fire STAB of Heatran and the Fighting immunity and Ghost STAB of Gengar. The bulk is a compromise of Heatran + Gengar, with extremely useful resistances. Blissey really never beat you, so she's not a problem. You can run dual STAB for good attacking prowess with Life Orb, or Flamethrower + Toxic with Leftovers, which acts like SubTran. People are really underrating this guy simply because the ST variant is so damn good. But when it comes down to it, I prefer this as my spin blocker on offensive oriented teams. Pair this up with Nattorei and you have a great combo.

 

[moe1216]

Despite that great bulk though, Heatran still suffers from both of the most popular offensive types: Fighting and Ground. Water doesn't help either, as nearly every team carries a water type. I'm not saying Heatran is bad and I'm not saying Shandy is better. Both can do the same thing, but their typing gives them different advantages.

Shandera (Without ST):
Pros:
-Immunity to three types (with FF) Are there any other pokes that can claim that? Seriously I want to know so I can check them out.
-Ruins Rapid Spinniers since most are physicall built but specially frail to an extent and Shandera generally carries SE moves to crush them.
-Ridiculous SPA attack at 145 and can revenge using a choice scarf.
-Can set up more than Heatran, giving it more capabilites thanks to CM and NC
Cons:
-Shandy is Pursuit weak and can be OHKOed with a powerful Sucker Punch before he's able to do anything.
-SR weak and weak to five types while Hetran is weak to only three.
Heatran:
Pros
-Very bulky with 91/106/106 defenses and the best defensive typing, Steel.
-FF, like Shandy, gives it immunity to fire and it is immune to Toxic and Toxic Spikes.
-130 SPA is nothing to mess with. Add to the fact he can learn both Earth Power and Dragon Pulse, he can do alot of damage and with alot of coverage and revenge with a scarf. Something both he and shandy do well.
Cons:
-Despite being bulky, he still has a huge ass problem with fighting and ground, taking x4 from the latter, and the moves of that type that are generally used have a BP of 100 and higher.
-He's slower than Shandy by 3 points. It is not that big of a difference, but three points can sometimes change the way a battle goes.
-Must run HP grass to deal with water types, while Shandy has Energy Ball.

Anyway, both pokes are good. Hell they're terrifying, and alongside Blaziken,Ninetales, Ulgamoth, and Infernape they essentially represent the fire type in the Metagame. So please don't say they suck. Both are strong, but because of the way GF made them, they do similar things but differ in many ways.

 

[alphatron]

If you're running the boosting variant with substitute, you'll run HP fighting over shadow ball. And if that's the case, the only pokemon you have to fear that will truly screw you over after that is ANOTHER flash fire shandera. Burungeru isn't talking calm mind boosted flash fire attacks well (Kind of like how Swampert is OHKO'd by Timid Heatran's flash fire boosted fire blast in the sun) and if you're behind a sub. Great.

If something threatens you, then feel free to switch out and bring shandera in back later. Sure, you may not get another flash fire boost but who cares? How many pokemon did you kill before you had to switch out? One? two? Then you've accomplished something.

Infernape doesn't have flash fire, nor does he have an immunity to fighting or normal. Nor does he have base 145 special attack...

I'm not saying shandera is an invincible and uncounterable pokemon or anything. But its got its uses with flash fire and shadow tag. The only BAD shandera I can see would have to be the flame body variants. >_>

 

[moe1216]

Gengar, Burungel, Mismagius. There are probably a few more.

ty! Just checked Goruggo and Drifloom do as well. Oddly enough all are ghost type.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Gengar, Burungel, Mismagius. There are probably a few more.

With a Balloon,Shandera has 4 immunities.
Top that xD
Only Sableye and Spiritomb can.

 

[j99ubers]

With a Balloon,Shandera has 4 immunities.
Top that xD
Only Sableye and Spiritomb can.

That new ground/ghost also gets 4 immunities with a balloon.

 

[TLK]

With a Balloon,Shandera has 4 immunities.
Top that xD
Only Sableye and Spiritomb can.

Shedinja :naughty:

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Shedinja :naughty:

Stealth Rock
Spikes
Sand Storm
Hail

 

[Green Thunder]

Shedinja :naughty:

You sillys, lol. U guys better get back on topic before the mods come and reap ur souls :P

I like shandera alot, good design, movepool and abilities! I don't understand why it doesn't get levitate but whatever. Would heat wave be a good move to use? It's stronger then flamethrower...and what about will-O-wisp? Or is shandera not good enough to be a supporter?