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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!

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Every time I get close to 1200, I end up getting swept by Inconsistent, despite Perish Song being on my Politoed. Bah.

I guess I'll ladder once Darkrai / Shaymin-S / Deo-A / Inconsistent are removed(or at least 2 of them are), so that its actually possible to build a team without being sleephaxxed/flinchhaxxed/destroyed/generalhaxxed to death.

Seriously, those 4 need to die.
 
Yes because with Good prediction Deoxys-A will essentially destroy everything but Spiritomb and weather sweepers will still have to sacrifice something. Choice Scarf users are fairly predictable in themselves. What he is saying is that either he has something specific (Spiritomb) or that people suck at using Deoxys since they can't predict switchins like Darkrai on Psycho Boost. Team viewer really helps in this regard. Because used right, Deoxys will destroy everything.

Used wrong, those defense kill it horribly obviously.
 
SHUCKLE MAN said:
The bolded part: Do you honestly believe those are the ONLY two possibilities? It sounds like you're saying "It's either this, or that, but whatever it is, I've already concluded that you're definitely wrong".
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Yes, what other reasons have you proposed? People playing against Deoxys say he's "underwhelming", but I've used him a lot both here and on the PO server and I'm just not seeing any strong arguments against him besides "The guys I play against suck with him." Most people I've seen run Lead or Midgame sash and let him die at like any chance they get, which is a serious misuse of his power. A simple LO set with Rash nature with U-turn on your team or a little prediction could have him running over perfectly good teams on his own.
 
SlimMan said:
True. That doesn't make him less useful though. It means he is no longer required. He will still be just as useful if you need to revenge a Darkrai.
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top wasn't the only poke 4 that job there 4 not required: dory (or most any swift swimmer/chlorophyl poke for that matter obviously in favorable weather) needs a little residual damage if jolly, skymin, deoxys-s/a (a is also likely leaving after this round of testing), jolly scarftar out-speeds speed neutral variants so that says a lot, scizor i think don't see wynaut (i apologize i know that pun is way OU), + realy most anything w/ 126+ and speed strong SE moves.
 
How does Metagross fare against Deo-A? Good defense, resists ES, resists Ice Beam, 4x resists Psycho Boost, and has that delicious STAB Bullet Punch and can run Pursuit.

252+ Metagross Bullet Punch vs 0/0 Deoxys-A: 95% - 112.4%
252+ Metagross Pursuit (40BP) vs 0/0 Deoxys-A: 127% - 150.2%

252 LO Deoxys-A Superpower vs 252/0 Metagross: 47.8% - 56.3%
252 LO Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs 252/4 Metagross: 28.3% - 33.5%
252 LO Deoxys-A Ice Beam vs 252/4 Metagross: 25.8% - 30.5%
252 LO Deoxys-A Extremespeed vs 252/0 Metagross: 15.9% - 18.7%

Seems like good ol' 252HP/252At/4sD 'Gross handles Deo-A just fine. I'm surprised that no one seems to even be mentioning him as a check.
 
j99ubers said:
On the first page Phil said that the rating required would be 1500. That being said only two people have reached that rating so it may be more likely that it will be 1400 or maybe 1450.



Wobb's job this gen isn't so much in allowing others free set up (although he still does this well) its to allow your team to remove the opponents choice scarfers to allow your fast,powerful sweepers to clean up. It still does that better than any pokemon in the game.
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Well, with the colossal power of most of the Gen V pokes (as well as Sazandora, which Wobb can do little to, unless it's a scarfer with Crunch, which isn't very common), as well as the encore Nerf, as WELL as the onslaught of Sandstorm, I don't see Wobb being nearly as annoying/effective this gen as he was in 4.

My list would have to be:
Skymin
Darkrai
Deoxys-A/S
Manaphy
Inconsistent
poss. Shadow Tag Shandera
 
There really isn't much Landlos discussion up here, is there?
Glorious typing, pretty nice stat distribution, sweet movepool, and Sand Power making 260-base Earthquake, what's not to not like?
Granted, if he stays, he may be my new favorite.
 
SJCrew said:
No offense Chou, but I'm not buying that one at all. Either it's something specific on your team you're using to counter him or the players are misusing him. I've had to sacrifice my Deoxys a few times just to get rid of CM Manaphy, but outside of that, he doesn't die unless I want him to.

If what you're doing works, I can accept that, but it's very hard to argue with that power, spped, and coverage when it forces you to switch all over the place or use max Sp. Def Spiritomb to put him out of commission for good. Bring on Sp. Def Scizor too, I guarantee you those things will disappear the second Deoxys does.
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Oh no, I definitely MEANT to say people are misusing him.

If they were using him effectively (that is, making smart predictions, fairly easy with team preview) than he would be far, FAR FAR too powerful.

Essentially, it's just a matter of time (and player improvement) until Deo-A becomes insanely broken.

That said, Deo-A has one other big problem that really prevents him from absolutely destroying the meta-- his inability to really switch in on anything. This is the difference between Weavile being meh, and Gengar being top OU last gen: the simple ability to find chances to switch in. It is hard to be top OU when all you can do is come in and revenge following kills.
 
pastorofmuppets said:
There really isn't much Landlos discussion up here, is there?
Glorious typing, pretty nice stat distribution, sweet movepool, and Sand Power making 260-base Earthquake, what's not to not like?
Granted, if he stays, he may be my new favorite.
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100 * STAB * Sand Power = 100 * 1.5 * 1.3 = 195. Where did this 260 come from?
 
fidgety said:
top wasn't the only poke 4 that job there 4 not required: dory (or most any swift swimmer/chlorophyl poke for that matter obviously in favorable weather) needs a little residual damage if jolly, skymin, deoxys-s/a (a is also likely leaving after this round of testing), jolly scarftar out-speeds speed neutral variants so that says a lot, scizor i think don't see wynaut (i apologize i know that pun is way OU), + realy most anything w/ 126+ and speed strong SE moves.
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I didn't say that only Top could do it. I didn't say he's required.
I said he's good at it.

And I don't understand your post. It looks like you just listed a bunch of random mons. Please tell me what you're trying to say. And use COMPLETE SENTENCES!
 
I think he's talking about the list of Pokemon that can check Darkrai. Checking doesn't mean a whole lot for something with a reliable sleep move, especially when it's not a very impressive list, tbh.
 
SJCrew said:
I think he's talking about the list of Pokemon that can check Darkrai. Checking doesn't mean a whole lot for something with a reliable sleep move, especially when it's not a very impressive list, tbh.
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I don't think that it is absolutely necessary to ban Darkrai. But I do recommend banning it.

The only way for it not to at least sleep (and maybe kill) something:

1) The Darkrai is played very badly
2) The opponent uses very specific counters for the sole purpose of beating Darkrai

Neither 1 nor 2 is acceptable to me in a "perfect" metagame. But that's just my opinion. If it does sleep something, then you need to go to your actual check. And then it can just switch out.

You basically have to sac someone just to get your check in without losing it.
 
Chou Toshio said:
Oh no, I definitely MEANT to say people are misusing him.

If they were using him effectively (that is, making smart predictions, fairly easy with team preview) than he would be far, FAR FAR too powerful.

Essentially, it's just a matter of time (and player improvement) until Deo-A becomes insanely broken.

That said, Deo-A has one other big problem that really prevents him from absolutely destroying the meta-- his inability to really switch in on anything. This is the difference between Weavile being meh, and Gengar being top OU last gen: the simple ability to find chances to switch in. It is hard to be top OU when all you can do is come in and revenge following kills.
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Yet it is so very worth it when you can revenge a poke, and then KO the next one, and then KO the next one, and then so on and so on. With Deoxys-A's crazy powerful and pretty damn good coverage, it only needs to get in once or twice, and if sacrificing a couple pokes of yours will allow him to do that, it is so very worth it
 
Gabe said:
I love Darkrai and Deoxys-A, but I'd rather lose the both of them and have like 10 other pokemon viable in OU.
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If you mean 10 become viable without them, then yes.

If you mean have an OU of 10 pokemon, then no.

Please say that you mean the first one.
 
Alright for me :

Manaphy : havent test yet. But have big chances to go

Inconsistent : Team preview is your friend. I pwned full incos team and non full incos team due to team preview actualy

Deoxys - A : hmmmm from my point i only have trouble with shadow ball variants (mew be damned) Boost isnt as crazy as many said and some superpower fail to ko bliss.

Darkrai : Ok only complaints his sub sleep 2 attack set. Its pretty much broken. After sleep it can sub and wreak havoc unless they have heracross and toxicroak, NP set isnt as broken tbh.

Deo -N : a very good revenge killer and late game cleaner. 95 SpA is enough and 180 speed is great. Its not broken but only very very top tier but thats my opinion.

Mew : aside from BP set(which doesnt work really well) his versatility and particularly stall set is so damned effective. His movepool make him not as "normal" as he should be. But yeah hes just top tier(and i hope so hes my MVP in most team)

Skymin : Flinch hax aside its okay but he has garchomp 102 speed issue. Interesting to note Deoxys N and A check im rather well.

Shanderaa : even with shadow tag all he can do is scarf RK. Sure you kill skarmory but they can then send in their rather common rain or sand sweeper, set up, blow your face.

Wobbufet : compared with shandy, wobb function is a lot. Wobb can set up (now on lesser scale), free turn, free switch if killed, choice kill, etcetera ad nauseum making him above the level of other shadow tag user (at least outside ST gochimu or Gochiruzeru. Evo stone gochimu is quite nice) Slower pokemon can risk getting encore chain maing him insane. And his bulk definitely nice even in this meta (if not for that damned sazando and darkrai everywhere) seeing how well he fare in ubers (hellllooooo almost everyone even the famed defensive behemoth groudon and kyogre has 150 base attacking stats in their respective spectrum, superb typing STAB, and insane movepool)

Latios : a pokemon asking to be played better. Okay let him spam his draco meteor until the end of the world. Then i send in my set upper and set up. Ohh even better i can revenge kill by dory. That said latios need to have good partner to constribute his strength and more conservative plays.

Latias : okay i dont want to use 2 specs or scarf with same set so what did you use ? CM.
Its not uber where rule of cool exist. Basicaly in Ubers a set that is "cool" or having cool concept has proven to be more sucessful than rather boring set unlike in OU. For example, how cool it is having a Bulky Specs Meteor spammer, CM sweeper(particularly Lugia, Giratina, and arceus aka the epitome of coolness) etc ? very cool. But latias has proven to me that in this metagame his CM set is superb as late game cleaner even at higher level than that of latios. his 130 SpD is not wasted for nothing and cominant 110 offense stats is enough for a sweep(at least if dory didnt exist) making team that lack zor, phazer, and ttar get huge problem. Basicaly top pokemon for me.
 
^Add Special Encourage to that as well.Its a great set.
Okay stop hating on me and my Fellow Deo-A Lead users >_<...Its a good set okay?....>_>.....

Well anyway im pretty much agreeing with most people about how hes not played properly and most of the time people use the most obv move.But its the sole fact that if you do mispredict you just loose your "Check" to Deoxys-A instantly.Oddly enough i really havn't seen too many Deo-A's compared to the other "Suspects" for some reason.As of now i think he should stay seeing as people really aren't abusing him all that well.

Edit:Yay 500 posts :3
 
Deoxys - A : hmmmm from my point i only have trouble with shadow ball variants (mew be damned) Boost isnt as crazy as many said and some superpower fail to ko bliss.
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I assume those are Focus Sash Variants of Deoxys since if it carries Life Orb, there is no way Blissey is going to survive a Superpower. That is why I think Focus Sash variants are pretty dumb (only the ones with Stealth Rock. I can see use for them with S-Power/Psych Boost/X-Speed/Hp Fire since it will be able to easily kill almost all the steels switching in and since people rely on priority to kill, they're going to cry when they lose one because it survives and kills back and they've pretty much lost their only hope. Stealth Rock is a waste of potential on Deoxys).

Go Mew power!
How are you suriving Psycho Boost considering unless you''re 4X resist/immune, everything gets 2 hit koed by it. Shadow Ball would make Mew cry but otherwise I could see defensive Mew nuking it with Light Screen. I bet that is what is being run (because Mew is a sexy strangely underrated but shouldn't be because it is a monster like the other ubers yet not being discussed).

Actually, I'm having some respect for (good, none of that Stealth Rock suicide Deoxys A crap which is stupid on Deoxys) Focus Sash since while it does lose some major power with Life Orb, it will reliably kill steels like Jirachi, Metagross, Scizor, Brongzong, etc before it goes down and if people rely on those, there's trouble. Scizor is roasted and Jirachi/Brongzong (maybe, although without Life Orb it won't 2 hit ko anymore without sun or other damage)/Metagross (except Special defensive Metagross) will be 2 hit koed and if hit on the switch, they'll attempt to kill Deoxys and die. Bronzong won't even get a chance because of it's speed and neither will non-Choice Scarf Jirachi. Metagross can attempt to Bullet Punch but Focus Sash will save Deoxys. Good predicition is obviously still required to hit those (obviously coming) steels but the good news is that now it doesn't die to Choice Scarf Darkrai/Shaymin-S and koes them as well.
 
over half the time scarf skymin still beats deo-a, thanks to flinchax. I'll be making a nomination post in a day so i won't waste it now, but i see at least 5 or 6 obvious ubers in this meta and a few more that will probably banned next round.
 
NailsOU said:
over half the time scarf skymin still beats deo-a, thanks to flinchax. I'll be making a nomination post in a day so i won't waste it now, but i see at least 5 or 6 obvious ubers in this meta and a few more that will probably banned next round.
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True, but if you're in a situation where Shaymin-S comes in on Stealth Rock and Deoxys-A still has it's Focus Sash up...then Extremespeed 2 hit koes way before Shaymin-S. A lot of ifs ands but it could happen since your opponent is using it to attempt to stop Deoxys. And Sash (with no weather sand/hail or Rocks) can come in midway...but that is much harder successfully but it can.

It could also happen that the flinch hax somehow (by the hand of fate or something) doesn't happen and Deoxys-A could pummel you.
 
I would have to go with Politoed and Darkrai.

Politoed:Water is already a great typing..But having half a team with 400+ speed is just too much.Doryuuzu is just one Pokemon and can be easily beaten since his counters are pretty practical and useful even if the other guy isn't using him..But for rain, there are too many decent sweepers and is hard to have a solution for the weirder ones..

Darkrai:Some guy before pretty much said it..Being asleep is almost the same as being dead.Sure there are many new fighters, but Dark Void just kills it for me.Breloom who is slow as hell is annoying already, something this fast shouldn't be allowed in OU.Plus his ability makes him that more annoying.

Not banned:

Inconsistant:Based on luck.Doesn't need to be banned.Yes i saw that Bidoof Log, but i bet that person lost many more times than he won..It's the same as someone playing Gears of War while recording it.He can then make a 3 minute video of headshots but in the end he could be the worst sniper..It's all about editing..So don't ban it.Eventually people will realize that it is a crappy ability and stop using it altogether..At least the better players...I'm sure the noobs will keep using it same as how Ninjask remained OU for some reason.

Inconsistant is just a hyped up crappy ability.
 
Fluffy Otters said:
I assume those are Focus Sash Variants of Deoxys since if it carries Life Orb, there is no way Blissey is going to survive a Superpower. That is why I think Focus Sash variants are pretty dumb (only the ones with Stealth Rock. I can see use for them with S-Power/Psych Boost/X-Speed/Hp Fire since it will be able to easily kill almost all the steels switching in and since people rely on priority to kill, they're going to cry when they lose one because it survives and kills back and they've pretty much lost their only hope. Stealth Rock is a waste of potential on Deoxys).

Go Mew power!
How are you suriving Psycho Boost considering unless you''re 4X resist/immune, everything gets 2 hit koed by it. Shadow Ball would make Mew cry but otherwise I could see defensive Mew nuking it with Light Screen. I bet that is what is being run (because Mew is a sexy strangely underrated but shouldn't be because it is a monster like the other ubers yet not being discussed).

Actually, I'm having some respect for (good, none of that Stealth Rock suicide Deoxys A crap which is stupid on Deoxys) Focus Sash since while it does lose some major power with Life Orb, it will reliably kill steels like Jirachi, Metagross, Scizor, Brongzong, etc before it goes down and if people rely on those, there's trouble. Scizor is roasted and Jirachi/Brongzong (maybe, although without Life Orb it won't 2 hit ko anymore without sun or other damage)/Metagross (except Special defensive Metagross) will be 2 hit koed and if hit on the switch, they'll attempt to kill Deoxys and die. Bronzong won't even get a chance because of it's speed and neither will non-Choice Scarf Jirachi. Metagross can attempt to Bullet Punch but Focus Sash will save Deoxys. Good predicition is obviously still required to hit those (obviously coming) steels but the good news is that now it doesn't die to Choice Scarf Darkrai/Shaymin-S and koes them as well.
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Yeah it might be sash one.

About mew. Well he psycho boost 2hko. Right.... so what ? i roost of the damage while he lost SpA making non Shadow ball deo-A a joke. Then i can burn him with Will o wisp making bliss a reliable switch in unlike before. In fact factoring lefties, Deo A has only small chance to 2 HKO with psycho boost. Psycho boost isnt as godly as everyone think off. You migh be blinded by his 180 attacking stats but deoxys-A attacks are in fact not as powerful as you might think it might do. I fear Specs Timid Hydro Pump from Kingdra in the rain more that Deoxys-A in a whole to be honest after i experience how pathetic Deoxys-A compared to what happen when i deal with him.
First is because Kingdra is faster. Second is because Water is superb typing (both are resisted by Nattrei anyway for posterity sake)

Remember mew is UBER LAST GEN and PSYCHIC ATTACK IS CRAP IN UBER LAST GEN making Psycho boost mediocre against fellow uber resistor. Result : NEVER OVERHYPE PSYCHO BOOST...EVER.
Psycho boost is only a draco meteor with worse typing and 180 SpA means he does 15 % more against same pokemon with same investment and item when compared with rayquaza
Against mew even latios specs DM fail to 2HKO in full health assuming mew roosting. Then he can Roost the second time and LS away making next ecounter fairly easier.

Homever should be noted shadow ball variants make me losing the power of stall mew. Stall mew is practicaly my MVP in most situation seeing how well he deal with this metagame.(yeah all this mew talking is about defensive mew which work really well in practicaly every kind of team)

Why stall mew ? BP mew is broken ? what a joke. BP mew is pathetic this gen (dunno in last gen) especialy in OU but surprisingly not in Uber, In uber he has the necesarry suporter and necesary
sweeper to pass against (Gr OU don should be named Gr UBER don after all and the sweeper choice range from That beast, Rayquaza, Dialga, and giratina and many more ).
In OU this gen, theres dragon Tail which is more common and Doryuzuu is more potent seeing the weather summoner isnt as broken as in Uber although they are still good(compare Politoed against Kyogre and Ninetales against GrUBERdon) which play crucial part in most cases.
As shrang said before, Ou dont have Set up = win pokemon like in ubers like the aforementioned Gruberdon making passing to sweeper not as rewarding in ubers especialy if the receiver is not named Metagross who cant OHKO Nattrei easilly. Weather summoner in uber play a part that when you see that you cant pass easily you use them to do immedite threat after switch in (not to mention kyogre is an adept cleaner for BP mew team and Gruberdon is a great, nearly the best recipient)

Stall mew homever is only stopped by miss, faster taunt, faster Sub, Robushin, MH, Taunting Magic mirror switch in, and fire type that can 2HKO without losing to roost stall and even then mew's (ussualy) light screen moveslot can be tweaked with other move of your choice to beat its counter of your choice. It fit in the metagame for making nattrei from dominating wall into set up bait, laughing at foretress, beat many Ttar variants and with AT blissey in waiting(yeah use bliss seeing how sandstorm is quite dominant), Magic mirror user can be poisoned by toxic safetly only waiting for its demise. Oh Did i mention that Chansey lose to Stall mew(even more than Bliss) ? Ths leave me wonder why stall mew isnt discussed instead of BP and why many dont use it(especialy if they say power creep the reason)
 
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