but it really isn't worth the drop in power
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Cinccino
- Thread starter Ryanide
- Start date
What drop in power? You lose less than 10% in power.
Yet that is a big deal when you find so little benefit
5-6% loss in your regular moves for a 50% increase on your only way to get past steels? There's a good chance that a Steel type is going to ruin your day more than a 5-6% damage loss will.
with 95 base, you won't be getting through those steels either way
What? SE Wake-Up-Slap deals more damage than a neutral multi-hit Skill Link attack.
Do you understand the phrase "either way"? If you can make all your attacks stronger, while only allowing for one situation where you get hurt more, why in the hell would you not?
But it's not "either way"; one way, you get walled, and in the other case, you deal more damage to the Steel type than you would with a neutral Skill Link attack.
Technician DOES make all attacks stronger. Skill Link makes his 3 moves that are resisted by Steel stronger by a negligible amount.
Not to mention it's quite easy for your opponent to switch in a Steel to wall your Skill as well, while it's basically impossible to position yourself to actually take advantage of the additional 5% extra damage.
Why can't you just let this go? You get a free boost and a VERY VERY small downside. Just accept it. Technician is cute if you like playing with the RNG and doing less damage, but Skill Link lets you better hurt pokes like Hippo and neutral pokes.
The damage difference between Technician and Skill Link is less than the variation from RNG, so it's a very very small boost, if anything. Not to mention that being walled by, well, the best walling type is a pretty big downside.
TECHNICIAN WON'T CHANGE THAT! You seem to be not understanding that Technician will do very little to assist you in that endeavor, and Chillachino's position is not to sweep through steels
Hm? Given that the stats are otherwise the same, you're going to deal more damage with Wake-Up Slap on a Steel type than a Bullet Seed on a neutral type, which is pretty major; if they switch in a Steel, you can deal more damage than you normally could, so it's definitely a major change.
And if something gets shut down by Steels, it's going to get shut down pretty often.
That's not a major change at all when you are dealing with a minor boost and pokes that have recovery. Just stop responding. Your point has been made. Your weak, redundant, poorly supported point has been made. Just stop
Recovery? The only Steel with recovery is Skarmory, which you're better off using Rock Blast on regardless. Nattorei, on the other hand, doesn't have reliable recovery, so that's not really a major change.
Besides, the difference between walled by Steels is huge; that's one of the main differences that puts Staraptor above Swellow, since the former can Close Combat past those, while Swellow is pretty much walled by any Steel, relegating it to a late-game sweeper, while Staraptor can generally come out even if the Steels haven't been eliminated yet.
Thus, it's pretty obvious that being able to hit steels for nice damage is going to let it be more versatile on when it can work.
And y'know, you can always just ignore the responses if you want.
Chillachino is still walled by steels with technician. Just stop restating the same thing as if it will become any smarter with repetition
I think the main point being made is that while Wake-Up Slap is Chillachino's best option against Steel-types, Chillachino isn't going to be blasting through many of them before they blast through him. Plenty of Steels aren't even weak to Fighting moves (Scizor, Genesect, Forretress, Jirachi, Bronzong, Metagross, Skarmory).
Also, Staraptor's CC has 30 more BP coming off of 25 more base Attack, so it's obviously a lot stronger.
Also, Staraptor's CC has 30 more BP coming off of 25 more base Attack, so it's obviously a lot stronger.
Pot, meet kettle.
In other words, go get a Shandera, a Heatran, a Magnezone, or a Specs Ninetales and you're all set. Team support is urgently needed if Chillachiino is forgoing Wake-Up Slap, which really isn't a huge problem at all.
You're BLACK.
Chila does around 50% damage with Technician Jolly Wake-Up Slap to 252/0 Nattorei, and a bit more than a third to 252/252 Impish Natt. Without Recovery, those hits hurt, especially since Natt is used to check a shitload of stuff.
Chila WUS vs 252/0 Tran: 51.3% - 60.6%
Skarm gets Rock Blasted, but I don't feel like calcing that without Skill Link. Prolly doesn't do much.
WUS vs Dory: 86.2% - 101.7%
Pictured above: every common steel right now
...nah, they don't wall Chilly.
vs
So, that's an over 50% chance you're going to deal more than 125 BP with Technician. Which is a good thing.
There's a reason Technician is better.
Skill Link hasn't been released for Chillachino yet.
You can't use it even if you wanted to. I see no harm discussing how it might be better or worse than Technician, but it's completely pointless and basically spam at this point to keep bumping the topic unless something new is being discussed. Most of your points the last page or two have already been addressed in the topic previously, including the base power comparisons.
I personally prefer Technician anyway, as the potential for extreme damage makes up for the slightly lower overall base power. There are many pokemon you just can't take out, so you might as well roll the dice a little. Besides, most of the 2HKO's are still 2HKO's with both
Skill Link hasn't been released for Chillachino yet.
You can't use it even if you wanted to. I see no harm discussing how it might be better or worse than Technician, but it's completely pointless and basically spam at this point to keep bumping the topic unless something new is being discussed. Most of your points the last page or two have already been addressed in the topic previously, including the base power comparisons.
I personally prefer Technician anyway, as the potential for extreme damage makes up for the slightly lower overall base power. There are many pokemon you just can't take out, so you might as well roll the dice a little. Besides, most of the 2HKO's are still 2HKO's with both
Wow, thanks for the info Sherlock. We get it, we know, but this isn't the 5th Gen Analysis section. It's the Uncharted Territory section, and I see no reason why we can't freely discuss the use of unreleased DW abilities without having to have somebody chime in over and over again with the same old statement "OMG not released yet!!!!"
And I still think Skill Link has merit over Technician because I can't tell you how many times I've been screwed over and gotten only 2 hits when I needed more.
Did you miss the very next sentence I posted that said I don't see any harm in discussing it but wanted to see the pointless arguments cease?
I tend to use Chillachino's moves in such a way that, with Technician, anything I am attacking is going to be a 2HKO regardless of how many hits connect. That way, you are never disappointed that the pokemon you needed to die is still murdering your team. If you are counting on a 4-5 hit Technician to cripple or OHKO another pokemon, you are using it incorrectly. The extra damage is just a bonus, not something you can count on.
I tend to use Chillachino's moves in such a way that, with Technician, anything I am attacking is going to be a 2HKO regardless of how many hits connect. That way, you are never disappointed that the pokemon you needed to die is still murdering your team. If you are counting on a 4-5 hit Technician to cripple or OHKO another pokemon, you are using it incorrectly. The extra damage is just a bonus, not something you can count on.
This. I used both Skill Link and Technician Chilachino and they need to be used differently. Skill Link Chila tends to 2HKO a lot by itself and can be used as an early damage dealer(SR leads really don´t like it - Gigalith, Hippo and Iwaparesu in particular) and scout, while Technician Chila is more of a finisher after Stealth Rock/Spikes damage and so on.
Of course they are the same species, so neither likes taking a hit, but TechiChila is more useful when it does not need to count on 4-5 hits.
This whole argument is moot! I declare this Cincicco set to be the de-facto winner;
Cinccino@(??focus sash??)
Jolly
Technician
EV's into speed and attack
Endure
Flail
Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Wake Up Slap/U Turn
Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Wake Up Slap
PS I registered just so i could remind everyone of its Endure/Flail combo. Its damage would be beyond epic, and it would be a decent lead
PPS Does technician apply to flail with 1 hp? (oh god tell me it does)
Cinccino@(??focus sash??)
Jolly
Technician
EV's into speed and attack
Endure
Flail
Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Wake Up Slap/U Turn
Bullet Seed/Rock Blast/Wake Up Slap
PS I registered just so i could remind everyone of its Endure/Flail combo. Its damage would be beyond epic, and it would be a decent lead
PPS Does technician apply to flail with 1 hp? (oh god tell me it does)
The thread should be renamed Cinccino. It was misspelled.