Shinporaa again has different chances to switch in - you're actually wanting to come in on Fighting-types with Shinporaa, while Clefable is the other way around. I still like Rankurusu better as a teammate though because Guts Roob doesn't run through Rank the same as he can to Shinporaa. Rank is slower so he takes less from Payback.
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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
I'm officially denying Clefable as of right now. Its stats are simply too poor to pull off the vast majority of its available sets, and the Cosmic Assist Power set simply gets beat on by fighting-types, strong attackers, taunters, and any number of other things.
I skimmed through the thread and didn't see you say anything about it, so I'm nominating Exeggutor for an OU analysis, for the following reasons:
- It is an excellent sun sweeper.
- Its Subseed Harvest set is a very good quickstaller.
- It is an effective Trick Room supporter, with Sleep Powder allowing free set-ups and Explosion allowing it to make a quick exit so that a more threatening Trick Room sweeper can come in.
- It is an excellent sun sweeper.
- Its Subseed Harvest set is a very good quickstaller.
- It is an effective Trick Room supporter, with Sleep Powder allowing free set-ups and Explosion allowing it to make a quick exit so that a more threatening Trick Room sweeper can come in.
Such is true but I question why did you mention Explosion!?
With Zangoose's Dream World ability, Poison Rampage, its a slower, frailer but more powerful Ursaring. With Jolly its speed tops out at 306. Swords Dance first turn, toxic orb activates and increases attack by 50%. STAB Facade, then you pick two of Night Slash, Brick Break, Close Combat, QuickAttack (for a stab priority). X-Scissor doesn't help much coverage wise. I should note that if you choose quick attack then your either going to be unable to attack ghosts (if you pick a fighting move as the 4th) or your going to be resisted by all steels, TTar and Terrakion if you pick Night Slash.
I doubt it gets much play, but there is no place to put UU or BL at the moment so I'm mostly just using this as a placeholder untll then. I find it interesting, though its frailty scares me off from using it. It makes a neat Glass Cannon though.
Edit: BTW, if my calculations are right (not saying they are) It can 2HKO Max HP/Max Def Nattorei with Facade.
Zang's Neutral Nature ATK = 329 *2 from Swords Dance = 658 * 1.5 from Ability = 987. Thats if I'm doing it right, if I'm doing it wrong then its 329 * 2.5 = 822
If its 822, he can 2HKO Nattorei if the Random Numbers love him. If its 987 then your almost guaranteed (Not calculating Leftover or any other healing factors Nattorei may have. Like Leech Seed). But yeah, Glass Cannon for the win :)
I doubt it gets much play, but there is no place to put UU or BL at the moment so I'm mostly just using this as a placeholder untll then. I find it interesting, though its frailty scares me off from using it. It makes a neat Glass Cannon though.
Edit: BTW, if my calculations are right (not saying they are) It can 2HKO Max HP/Max Def Nattorei with Facade.
Zang's Neutral Nature ATK = 329 *2 from Swords Dance = 658 * 1.5 from Ability = 987. Thats if I'm doing it right, if I'm doing it wrong then its 329 * 2.5 = 822
If its 822, he can 2HKO Nattorei if the Random Numbers love him. If its 987 then your almost guaranteed (Not calculating Leftover or any other healing factors Nattorei may have. Like Leech Seed). But yeah, Glass Cannon for the win :)
Everything in your post pretty much sums what why Zangoose is not only complete trash in OU, but also outclassed by Lucario in just about every aspect. Poor type coverage combined with a piss weak priority attack, alongside mediocre speed and shit defenses make it VERY hard to sweep with Zangoose while Lucario can just come in on shit locked into Outrage, Stone Edge, etc, set up an SD, and just go on a rampage. Being walled by Nattorei doesn't help its case either...
I completely agree that Exeggutor deserves an OU analysis, especially with it being one of the few legitimate checks to Breloom in the game, as well as a fantastic sun sweeper.
I've not read the whole thread so this migh already have been mentioned, but why is Parasect on the list? He's one of the best SubSeeders ever in the Rain, with Spore to take out a counter, X-Scissor to deal with Grass-types, and Dry Skin to restore HP in the Rain. There should be no question of him being disallowed an OU analysis.
I second this - since Drizzle is still legal with Sect etc, he really does deserve an anlysis. His Grass and Elec weaknesses make him very valuable to a Rain team, and Spore, Subseed and Dry Skin make him one of the best subseeders despite his poor stats. He can also beat Nattorei one on one despite the recoil from its ability, with X-Scissor (but there is the problem of hazards being set up).
I find it funny that with all the things getting denied (for good reason, don't get me wrong), Klinklang, the poster boy of wasted potential, has an analysis. If anyone has a convincing argument as to why Klinklang deserves OU analysis, I'd love to hear it.
Why exactly is Hitmonlee getting the shaft, anyway? I've looked through the thread and while it's been mentioned a few times, it hasn't really been addressed. Surely outpacing Excadrill after Unburden or simply shitting out Reckless HJKs must account for something.
EDIT: Okay scratch Unburden it is apparently not released yet and I am dumb
Why exactly is Hitmonlee getting the shaft, anyway? I've looked through the thread and while it's been mentioned a few times, it hasn't really been addressed. Surely outpacing Excadrill after Unburden or simply shitting out Reckless HJKs must account for something.
EDIT: Okay scratch Unburden it is apparently not released yet and I am dumb
I'm not sure why Sharpedo is on the list. With Speed Boost it's become quite scary. It might still be frail as hell and unable to switch into anything, and I doubt it'll become OU, but it's probably worthy of an analysis anyway.
EDIT: Mismagius too? What? Surely access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, the ability to Perish Trap and better Special Defense make it somewhat noteworthy despite Gengar's presence.
EDIT: Mismagius too? What? Surely access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, the ability to Perish Trap and better Special Defense make it somewhat noteworthy despite Gengar's presence.
Some time in the next couple days I'll address all the reasonable posts in this thread.
Although Nidoking completely outclasses Nidoqueen offensively, Nidoqueen's defensive capabilities shouldn't be overlooked. I've been using Nidoqueen on Stall, and I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised at it's effectiveness. Due to Encourage boosting all of Nidoqueen's moves, It can remain a defensive threat, while maintaining a reasonable offensive pressure to keep things from setting up on it. Nidoqueen also has a great palette of resistances and is pretty much a hard Terakion counter, which is pretty hard to come by. It's ability to set up Toxic Spikes further ups its usefulness.
In other words, I would like to nominate Nidoqueen for being released from the bad-to-the-point-of-being-unusable list.
Claydol is also pretty useful, but I'm less adamant about the usefulness of that one, since it has pretty bad weaknesses to Dark and Bug which are common moves on the Pokemon its supposed to be able to counter X(.
(However access to Ice Beam really helps its case)
EDIT: NVM about Claydol it sucks :S.
In other words, I would like to nominate Nidoqueen for being released from the bad-to-the-point-of-being-unusable list.
Claydol is also pretty useful, but I'm less adamant about the usefulness of that one, since it has pretty bad weaknesses to Dark and Bug which are common moves on the Pokemon its supposed to be able to counter X(.
(However access to Ice Beam really helps its case)
EDIT: NVM about Claydol it sucks :S.
Claydol gets shat on by most of the common spinblockers in standard, and if not using Rapid Spin, Claydol is outclassed by Goruugo when speaking in terms of a check to stuff like Terakion and Blaziken.
Just because a Pokemon is usable in one out of twenty battles doesn't warrant it an OU analysis, so stop nominating shit that looks 'viable' on paper.
Klinklang's analysis was QC approved way before this thread popped up, so the analysis was kept open.
So it can easily OHKO with Close Combat.
Anyways, I saw Shedinja on this list. It has its niche of completely walling a good number of type combos, and being one of the few, if not the only, to do that. For example, it walls BoltBeam, Dragon+Fighting, Water+Ice+Grass, Ice+Ground, and more. It often holds the record for being the only pokemon to be immune to a certain type (i.e. Ice, Bug). This gives it its niche of walling a unique variety of pokemon (kind of like Porygon2 in generation 4). It can wall most waters like Empoleon, Starmie and Vaporeon, some psychics like Reuniclus (though some have Shadow Ball and Hidden Power fire), many electrics like L-rod Zapdos and standard Electivire and a lot more pokemon I can't think of right away.
power = (base power) (poison rampage) (stab) (effectiveness) (side effects)
Facade = (base power) (poison rampage) (stab) (effectiveness) (side effects)
Facade = (70) (1.5) (1.5) (0.5) (2)
Facade = 157.5
Close Combat = (base power) (poison rampage) (effectiveness)
Close Combat = (120) (1.5) (2)
Close Combat = 360
Yup, not only that but there are better attack boosters and stronger Pokemon in general that can give ultimate destruction to Ferrothorn in one hit. Zangoose was severely outclassed in generation 4 and it still is but even more this time. Why did I type all of this up? It's been said already!
Yeah, and you only have to always spin away hazards, null Sandstorm and Hail....Yeah, no, it sucks.
I believe Shedinja deserves an analysis. I admit, it's not OU material and using it is extremely risky however it can be used very efficiently if used properly. I don't care if it gets an OU analysis or not to be honest as it doesn't matter where Shedinja is placed, what threatens it are similar attacks coming from different Pokemon.
I've not gotten too into BW yet and am truthfully a novice, but I really think Cinccino deserves an OU analysis. Correct me if this is indeed a gimmick set, but after DW comes out isn't Skill Link Cinccino viable? It gets Bullet Seed and Rock Blast, which after Skill Link each come to a base power of 125, and Tail Slap, which after Skill Link and STAB comes to 187.5. This is working off a decent base 95 Atk stat, which hits 289 with a neutral nature or 317 with a beneficial nature. In addition, it has a 115 base Spd, which hits 329 with a neutral nature or 361 with a beneficial one. Grass and Rock hits 6 common types (Water, Rock, Ground, Flying, Bug, and Fighting,) for super-effective damage, and a base 187.5 STAB attack with a decent 85% accuracy isn't something to be passed over. Plus, Grass takes care of all those pesky Water/Grounds and a strong enough Rock type attack destroys almost any Flying-type, which makes up a sizable chunk of OU. Again, I'm still learning. Comment or correct as necessary.
Fair enough on Hitmonlee, but Klinklang keeping an OU analysis because it slipped in before the thread was made doesn't really gel with me.
I totally understand trying to set some standards, and I support it 100%. Some Pokemon shouldn't be analyzed for OU because they can't compete in that environment, it makes perfect sense. What does not make sense is that some Pokemon, mostly Unova Pokemon it seems, have write ups for OU, and are allowed to keep them (at least for the time being) just because they slipped in before someone imposed some much needed limitations.
If you're going to set a bar, it should apply to past write ups as well as future ones. You gotta cull the rolodex a bit, or else it just creates a situation where people can argue "well if Samurott has an OU analysis why can't Sharpedo have one too?" or whatever.
Has Murkrow with Mischeavous Heart been released on Dream World yet?
It's listed as not being fit for OU analysis, but it already has an OU analysis posted. I have tried the Perish Trapper set with Evolution Stone, Mischeavous Heart, Featherdance, Roost, Mean Look and Perish Song, and it actually works extremely well.
Definitely worthy of an analysis.
It's listed as not being fit for OU analysis, but it already has an OU analysis posted. I have tried the Perish Trapper set with Evolution Stone, Mischeavous Heart, Featherdance, Roost, Mean Look and Perish Song, and it actually works extremely well.
Definitely worthy of an analysis.
It has an analysis.
Im surprised to see Entei or any Stealth Rock weak pokemon on this list (Moltres also). It is INCREDIBLY easy to keep Stealth Rock off the field with Xatu and Espeon this generation (Xatu is actually a complete troll and impossible to remove if using Bold and featherdance you won't pursuit the bastard anytime soon.)
Also, Nidoqueen for sure needs to be listed. With Encourage it needs no SpA EVs to 2HKO shit like Skarmory and Natt, while setting up its own hazards, absorbing T-spikes, and just being a general good utility.
Steelix should always have an analysis because it is an excellent defensive pivot for offensive teams in need of Stealth Rock, a Thunderwave / Toxic immunity, AND a phazer, all in one. Not to mention Sturdy or not Sturdy Steelix is virtually impossible to OHKO with an unboosted attack (need a STAB Fire Blast, and all the users of it can't risk switching into an Earthquake without a Balloon). Specially Defensive Steelix actually is more efficient than a physical wall, since Steelix should be using his resistances rather than trying to be a pure wall. 9 Resistances and 2 Immunities, with weaknesses to common predictable attack types (Fire, Water, Fighting, Ground - all of which are resisted by Lati@s, Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados) allow for easy switch-ins for the said pokemon. I was running Steelix with a set of Earthquake / Dragon Tail / Roar / Stealth Rock as my defensive pivot on my offensive team and it worked perfectly.
Also, Nidoqueen for sure needs to be listed. With Encourage it needs no SpA EVs to 2HKO shit like Skarmory and Natt, while setting up its own hazards, absorbing T-spikes, and just being a general good utility.
Steelix should always have an analysis because it is an excellent defensive pivot for offensive teams in need of Stealth Rock, a Thunderwave / Toxic immunity, AND a phazer, all in one. Not to mention Sturdy or not Sturdy Steelix is virtually impossible to OHKO with an unboosted attack (need a STAB Fire Blast, and all the users of it can't risk switching into an Earthquake without a Balloon). Specially Defensive Steelix actually is more efficient than a physical wall, since Steelix should be using his resistances rather than trying to be a pure wall. 9 Resistances and 2 Immunities, with weaknesses to common predictable attack types (Fire, Water, Fighting, Ground - all of which are resisted by Lati@s, Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados) allow for easy switch-ins for the said pokemon. I was running Steelix with a set of Earthquake / Dragon Tail / Roar / Stealth Rock as my defensive pivot on my offensive team and it worked perfectly.