As long as Reun doesn't get to +2 on CM, then Gengar is set. Dealing 60% to a +1 Reun is awesome, especially while running a +speed nature. That is something I will have to keep in mind now when trying to figure out what to counter/check Reun with when building a team.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
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He means that Reuniclus will switch out as soon as it sees a Trick pokemon, not after it's already been tricked.
In which case you've done your job and the scenario becomes a case of either predicting the Reuniclus switch and attacking, or Reuniclus staying in and KOing the Trickster.
Last gen Spiritomb was mostly outclassed by Rotom-A. While Rotom didn't pack the no weakness advantage of Spiritomb, they had great defensive coverage and could therefore switch into much more than spiritomb. This means that Rotom-A could do the same sets as Spiritomb only with more switch in opportunities. This is the most major reason Spiritomb was relegated to uu last gen. Now in this gen Rotom-A loses it's ghost typing and the only thing left to fill the reigns of Rotom is Burungeru. However, unlike Rotom Burngeru doesnt have the amazing coverage. (Though it does have other advantages such as recover) Therefore Spiritombs niche would be much better appriciated this gen if people would just use it. I'm not saying its the go to guy for spinblockers but it does actually hold ground in the metagame when compared to other ghost types.
Spiritomb was UU before Platinum was released, and therefore before there was any Rotom-A to compete with. Or rather, it wasn't OU. I think it was BL, back when BL didn't mean anything. At that time, the competition it was losing out to was Dusknoir, and Dusknoir isn't even OU anymore.
That said, if Spiritomb is viable again because of its ability to stop Reuniclus, that's a good reason to use it. This is a new generation, and while Spiritomb itself hasn't changed much, the changes in the metagame have given it an important role it didn't have before.
^ That might partially be due to Chansey outclassing it in terms of defense, and Porygon2 arguably being a better option if you want some sembelance of offense.
Anyway, I've been plugging away with my Rain Offense team, and while I'm probobly not going to get high enough to vote [Bad luck, bad matchups, and lack of time to play], I've seen many different playstyles.
Oddly enough, I keep running into stall teams that work. However, this may be due to the fact that my team has next to nothing to beat Skarmory once my Rotom-W is down, and Nattorei is annoying if Azumarill is down.
I win against most offensive teams, especially Sand, the biggest issue I have with offense is Latios, but that's died down after I changed my SD Chomp to a Scarfchomp.
Renkulus is not much of an issue to me. It dosen't really get to come in safe on anything, and I generally overpower it. If it gets too much, I Perish Song it with my Politoad. I think Renkulus isn't broken. So what if it beats Stall and makes it unviable? SkarmBliss did that in Gen 2, were either of those banned? Scizor went quite a way to making Hyper Offense unviable in Gen 4, and forced every offensive team to have some Steel-resistant attacker. Was Scizor banned? No.
Anyone complaining about Renkulus either has to man up and use Spiritomb [Which isn't DREADFUL, especially if you're using something like Wish Chansey/Blissey/Vaporeon, in fact, it synergises rather well with Blissey/Chansey], or just accept that the Gen 5 metagame has turned away from the Stall which dominated Gen 2 -> 4. It's not like any single team of 6 pokemon can counter every single viable pokemon anymore, it wasn't that way in Gen 4, and it isn't now.
Tl;dr: Renkulus is like Gen 4 Scizor, or Gen 2 SkarmBliss [Or even Stealth Rock in Gen 4]. It makes certain playstyles unviable, or forces certain movements in the metagame, but it's not broken.
Anyway, I've been plugging away with my Rain Offense team, and while I'm probobly not going to get high enough to vote [Bad luck, bad matchups, and lack of time to play], I've seen many different playstyles.
Oddly enough, I keep running into stall teams that work. However, this may be due to the fact that my team has next to nothing to beat Skarmory once my Rotom-W is down, and Nattorei is annoying if Azumarill is down.
I win against most offensive teams, especially Sand, the biggest issue I have with offense is Latios, but that's died down after I changed my SD Chomp to a Scarfchomp.
Renkulus is not much of an issue to me. It dosen't really get to come in safe on anything, and I generally overpower it. If it gets too much, I Perish Song it with my Politoad. I think Renkulus isn't broken. So what if it beats Stall and makes it unviable? SkarmBliss did that in Gen 2, were either of those banned? Scizor went quite a way to making Hyper Offense unviable in Gen 4, and forced every offensive team to have some Steel-resistant attacker. Was Scizor banned? No.
Anyone complaining about Renkulus either has to man up and use Spiritomb [Which isn't DREADFUL, especially if you're using something like Wish Chansey/Blissey/Vaporeon, in fact, it synergises rather well with Blissey/Chansey], or just accept that the Gen 5 metagame has turned away from the Stall which dominated Gen 2 -> 4. It's not like any single team of 6 pokemon can counter every single viable pokemon anymore, it wasn't that way in Gen 4, and it isn't now.
Tl;dr: Renkulus is like Gen 4 Scizor, or Gen 2 SkarmBliss [Or even Stealth Rock in Gen 4]. It makes certain playstyles unviable, or forces certain movements in the metagame, but it's not broken.
Assuming the bit about Porygon2 and Chansey was directed at me, I don't think that's the reason. Based on my observations, neither Chansey nor Porygon2 is anywhere close to OU right now.
In fact, the only Ghosts that seem to be OU right now are Gengar and Jellicent, and Gengar isn't bulky in the slightest. Odd, with all those Fighting-type attacks being thrown around...
In fact, the only Ghosts that seem to be OU right now are Gengar and Jellicent, and Gengar isn't bulky in the slightest. Odd, with all those Fighting-type attacks being thrown around...
It is crazy how much ghosts have fallen in usage. All I ever see is Chandelure, Jellicent, and Gengar, and the occasional Dusclops with Evo stone.
I'll second this completely.
Spiritomb isn't at all really that bad. Its got a plethora of play styles at its disposal, and really fits the niche of Reuniclus counter right now. It isn't like its trash in general, it can hold its own for the most part against a lot of the metagame, and is one of the best spin blockers to be used against Starmie in the rain. I understand his abilities (beyond the surprise factor on how hes played) are rather limiting, but he definitely has a role now in this generation.
I'll second this completely.
Spiritomb isn't at all really that bad. Its got a plethora of play styles at its disposal, and really fits the niche of Reuniclus counter right now. It isn't like its trash in general, it can hold its own for the most part against a lot of the metagame, and is one of the best spin blockers to be used against Starmie in the rain. I understand his abilities (beyond the surprise factor on how hes played) are rather limiting, but he definitely has a role now in this generation.
Im just curious here, but if there was a Pokemon which did the same to offense, would you be saying the same ?
Full stall can still play around reuniclus. You need a phazer that can take psychics and recover and devote 1 moveslot to either perish song or skill swap/worry seed. The phazer you should already have and if you can't devote 1 moveslot to counter a pokemon that gives your team so much trouble, then you really can't be complaining.
Blissey walls half the metagame by the way.
Blissey is defeated by the other half of the metagame by the way.
Half the game's ATTACKS, not half the metagame. Many Pokemon have some way of getting around Blissey, and the ones who don't can just switch to something that forces it out and possibly Pursuit for a kill.
Then there's also the fact that Blissey doesn't cripple offensive teams in the same way that Reun does stall. In order to deal with Blissey on an offensive team, you need to switch out a couple of members for equally capable members who can attack on the physical spectrum. If you're running stall, you need to switch out one or more members for a member who most likely does nothing for standard stall but instead can hit hard enough to bust Reun. In order for a stall team to deal with Reun, it has to cripple itself. There might be other perfectly capable Pokemon who can deal with Reun and can fit onto standard stall, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Maybe Volcarona?
I don't buy this "Reuniclus is good against stall so it must be banned" argument.
If one pokemon can single-handedly take down an entire team, that used to mean the team wasn't good. Maybe stall is dead? "Stall" is not something that has to be a part of the metagame, stop pretending like we require a perfect balance of playstyles to have a competitive metagame. I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, but we're not in a metagame where 1/3 teams are offense, 1/3 are stall and the other 1/3 are balanced. The fact that Reuniclus beats stall teams is irrelevant if stall teams suck in this generation (which they do). Reuniclus also beats mono-Poison teams, what's your point?
And besides, there are still plenty of ways for stall teams to beat Reuniclus. Trick, Taunt, Perish Song, Whirlwind, having something on your team that can actually do damage, Spiritomb, other Calm Minders like Latias and Suicune, etc
If one pokemon can single-handedly take down an entire team, that used to mean the team wasn't good. Maybe stall is dead? "Stall" is not something that has to be a part of the metagame, stop pretending like we require a perfect balance of playstyles to have a competitive metagame. I don't know what fantasy world you're living in, but we're not in a metagame where 1/3 teams are offense, 1/3 are stall and the other 1/3 are balanced. The fact that Reuniclus beats stall teams is irrelevant if stall teams suck in this generation (which they do). Reuniclus also beats mono-Poison teams, what's your point?
And besides, there are still plenty of ways for stall teams to beat Reuniclus. Trick, Taunt, Perish Song, Whirlwind, having something on your team that can actually do damage, Spiritomb, other Calm Minders like Latias and Suicune, etc
Here's a tip: don't listen to this.
There's a way to run stall in the metagame, you just can't run the 6 walls like in DPP and expect to win though. I don't think I have a single "offensive Pokemon" on my team and I've hit 1400. A lot of stall cores are anti-metagame, and the standard Nattorei + Burungeru + Tyranitar covers a lot of the metagame singlehandedly.
Actually, wait I lied, I run Virizion on my team, but that's literally only because Rotom-W is a dick to any full-stall teams now that Tyranitar can't dispose of it in two seconds.
You say to deal with Blissey, you need to switch out a couple of members for an equally capable member. You then say for stall to deal with Reun, you need to switch for a member who will do nothing. Tyranitar isn't exactly a stall staple, but it isn't dead weight by any means. Neither is Spiritomb as Stall needs a spin blocker anyway. Hell, even something like a Bulky Scizor can fit on stall teams.
And most special attackers do not have a way to deal with Blissey, and if they do, they run it because of Blissey. If Blissey forces special attackers to always carry focus blast, psycho shock, or go mixed, then why can't stall learn to deal with Reun through the methods I stated earlier? Use T-tar instead of Hippo, use Spiritomb instead of Jellicent (which sucks anyway IMO), or use a Scizor and set up on it instead.
Reuniclus is hardly broken. Its just a really good pokemon that happens to do well against most others. You have things like Spiritomb, Jirachi, Scizor that can just set up on it. A true broken pokemon doesn't have 99% counters.
Edit- This is coming from a heavy stall player who has had problems with the thing before.
Edit- This is coming from a heavy stall player who has had problems with the thing before.
yeah I have run heavy stall before (just to try it out) and never been swept by a Reuniclus before. It is still a huge threat to be fair but at least with team preview I can see it coming and base a game plan about beating it. If its a last pokemon then its tough to stop though as you cannot phase the damn thing out and its immune to Toxic and stuff. I thik the annoying thing about Reuniclus is that i always have to have something special just for it (ie Perish Song, Spiritomb (and even that's risky seeing as it means my spin blocker has to be in tip top shape), a Trick Scarfer (gotta keep the scarf for when its the last pokemon) and Perish Song (same as above although its users are limited). Don't get me wrong, its defiantly do-able but its very frustrating to have to have something specially for it because its just such a major threat
People were to fast to think "Oh he nulify reidual and strong and can set up and bulky. he make stall unviable". Thats REALLY WRONG
STall is viable. Full Stall is viable. But the problem with stall is this gen is not because of more powerful attacker(dory attack sint so much powerfu tbh). The reason is the meta is full of bulky offense that is hard to cripple such as say gyara in prev gen with Rotom, Crocune > rotom etc. In this gen we have roob (status problem = heaven) and magic guarders that is GOOD(shin and ranky) that show the face of bulky offense. A bulky mon with hard to cripple factor.
Lets face it, guts heracross last gen is pretty brutal to g4 stall. His problem is his lack of bulk to stand everyday and recovery to completely murder stall.
Now we have roob who have that and he have higher attack and have drain punch AND perfect coverage to common stall member. Reuniclus is only a hard threats for stall since he has bulk and that hard factor.
I agree with this statement completely. Reun is broken(i am 50-50 on this fact) because its bulky and easy to set up to run through team(even when crimgan crunch 2HKO him ? yeah hes still great) not because it destroy stall.
And dont say he broke full stall only. Semi stall is a word born because offense bitch dont want to admit that stall is good hence they deny it by saying stall with offense is no stall. Its still stall alright and its no difference with semi-stall
Try it guys. it actualy work well in this meta. Wobb isnt deadweight
Not dead weight, just suboptimal. There's a difference, and it can really weaken a playstyle.
Having your special attacker run fighting or physical options is nothing like switching out a member of your team.
Reun may or may not be broken. However, I think I can say with some confidence that its very existence severely limits stall. Not saying this is something unusual or even bad, for example, the very existence of TTar severely limits Sun teams.
Has anybody tried Tangrowth? Regeneration on a pokemon that has better physical defense than even Skarmory is amazing. It can switch into Nattorei with impunity, and at full health can even survive a +2 X-Scissor from LO Adamant Dory.
And he's not dead weight against stall because he can Sleep Powder to help your counters plow through while also being hard to wear down with Regeneration switches. The only problem I see with him is that you can't run him alongside Nattorei, who is probably more useful in this current meta than Tangrowth is.
And he's not dead weight against stall because he can Sleep Powder to help your counters plow through while also being hard to wear down with Regeneration switches. The only problem I see with him is that you can't run him alongside Nattorei, who is probably more useful in this current meta than Tangrowth is.
I agree. The only reason he was UU Gen IV was because Shaymin and Celebi were arguably better defensive pokemon. Yet with Regeneration, it can be a powerful wall in this meta. even still, the existence of Nat, who has a better typing and hazards, makes its niche a little small for my liking
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