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UU Threat List
- Thread starter Brambane
- Start date
But Entei isn't a threat.
Okay, since it took so long for me to get back to the computer, I'll just repost it with the finished version.
Venomoth
Bug/Poison
70 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 90 SpA / 75 SpD / 90 Spe
"The other bug" of RBY, Venomoth was NU last gen -- which is no surprise given its SR weakness and decidedly average stat spread. However, Venomoth has received a godsend in the excellent boosting move Quiver Dance. Quiver Dance allows Venomoth to take advantage of its only decent stats -- Special Attack and Speed -- and actually attempt a sweep. In fact, Venomoth is almost perfectly equipped for the job. Its unique Bug/Poison typing means it cares absolutely nothing about what Chansey can do, provided it carries Roost. Also, Sleep Powder greatly assists in nabbing those boosts. Venomoth doesn't even need to run much coverage thanks to its Tinted Lens ability. After Venomoth is done its sweep, it can pass those Quiver Dance boosts to an even more threatening sweeper.
Venomoth
Bug/Poison
70 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 90 SpA / 75 SpD / 90 Spe
"The other bug" of RBY, Venomoth was NU last gen -- which is no surprise given its SR weakness and decidedly average stat spread. However, Venomoth has received a godsend in the excellent boosting move Quiver Dance. Quiver Dance allows Venomoth to take advantage of its only decent stats -- Special Attack and Speed -- and actually attempt a sweep. In fact, Venomoth is almost perfectly equipped for the job. Its unique Bug/Poison typing means it cares absolutely nothing about what Chansey can do, provided it carries Roost. Also, Sleep Powder greatly assists in nabbing those boosts. Venomoth doesn't even need to run much coverage thanks to its Tinted Lens ability. After Venomoth is done its sweep, it can pass those Quiver Dance boosts to an even more threatening sweeper.
Entei has better stats than Arcanine and most of the same moves. How is Entei not a threat but the weaker Arcanine is?
Because Arcanine actually has a better movepool, better bulk (factoring in intimidate), better at support, better mixed attacker, better at almost every damn thing Entei can do. And Flare Blitz is limited to the Crown ones and being forced to used an Adamant nature.
So uhm, Entei's stats really doesn't mean a thing if Arcanine's got the goods and arguably better abilities.
So uhm, Entei's stats really doesn't mean a thing if Arcanine's got the goods and arguably better abilities.
Why all the Arcanine/Entei arguments here? In OU sure, Entei is practically worthless due to the utility CC and Intimidate provide, but in UU not so, since Fighting isn't such a sought after movetype and Entei's niche in its CM set is actually worth using.
Both have their merits guys, don't discriminate.
Both have their merits guys, don't discriminate.
Not really discriminating. I just won't let my beloved Arcanine be made fool of by utter nonsense being spouted, by calling it "weaker".
And I agree with the CM set on Entei, though.
And I agree with the CM set on Entei, though.
Entei's stats:
Max HP: Like, 434 or something
Max Atk: 361
Max Spe: 328 (299 with BlitzSpeed)
Arcanine's stats
Max HP: 384
Max Atk: 350
Max Spe: 317
Arcanine is statistically weaker. And why would you want to run a nature other than Adamant on Entei? He has ExtremeSpeed to use.
I'm not arguing this any further. Benlisted stated what they can do. You can live in this distortion field where you believe because something is statistically weaker than the next, that means it's better.
You're like, always doing this.
You're like, always doing this.
I only believe that as they're similar overall, one of them is bound to be outclassed by the other, and I don't see how the weaker one could prevail. (Also, Entei gets Bulldoze/Stone Edge to rival Arcanine's CC/Wild Bolt)
Stupid question because it obviously is but can Slowking be added to the list?
-Slowbro but instead of beating Victini/Arcanine it beats Kyurem
-Slowbro doesn't have Dragon Tail
-Slowbro but instead of beating Victini/Arcanine it beats Kyurem
-Slowbro doesn't have Dragon Tail
Arcanine outshines Entei in UU for one reason and one reason only (IMO), Abilities. After an Intimidate Arcanine is effectively bulkier and it can help check many physical attackers. Though nowadays, Flash Fire might be even better as it allows Arcanine to stop Victini in its tracks. Entei on the other hand is somewhat lacking in the Ability department. If you are going for straight up sweeping Entei could be better, but in that department they are both usually outclassed by many other Pokemon.
Also, since no one has done it yet, I'll write up Weavile. He is my favorite UU Pokemon after all. And I want a monopoly on Pokemon that begin with W.
And here it is. Any comments or suggestions would be great.
70 HP / 120 Atk / 65 Def / 45 SpA / 85 SpD /125 Spe
Weavile is a Pokemon with fantastic stats. 120/125 attacking stats is something almost any other sweeper would be envious of. However, it is the lack of powerful moves (and severe Scizor weakness) that has always held it back in OU. But the drop to UU is exactly what Weavile needed to really shine. Thanks to its high attack and very high speed, Weavile can put on a Choice Band to become an awesome revenge killer and Pursuit trapper. The fact that many common attackers are weak to its STABs only makes it better. And while it might not have the bulk to let it take many hits, if it can find the time to Swords Dance, Weavile can ravage entire teams. At +2, even some of the tiers best physical walls will be taken down in one hit.
Yet, its relative frailty means that Weavile is easy prey for priority users. Hitmontop is probably Weavile's number one enemy, as it can come in on just about anything and threaten with Mach Punch. Additionally, Scarf users such as Heracross can easily take Weavile down. However, even Scarfed Pokemon must be wary of Ice Shard, especially if Weavile has gotten in any boosts.
Also, since no one has done it yet, I'll write up Weavile. He is my favorite UU Pokemon after all. And I want a monopoly on Pokemon that begin with W.
And here it is. Any comments or suggestions would be great.
70 HP / 120 Atk / 65 Def / 45 SpA / 85 SpD /125 Spe
Weavile is a Pokemon with fantastic stats. 120/125 attacking stats is something almost any other sweeper would be envious of. However, it is the lack of powerful moves (and severe Scizor weakness) that has always held it back in OU. But the drop to UU is exactly what Weavile needed to really shine. Thanks to its high attack and very high speed, Weavile can put on a Choice Band to become an awesome revenge killer and Pursuit trapper. The fact that many common attackers are weak to its STABs only makes it better. And while it might not have the bulk to let it take many hits, if it can find the time to Swords Dance, Weavile can ravage entire teams. At +2, even some of the tiers best physical walls will be taken down in one hit.
Yet, its relative frailty means that Weavile is easy prey for priority users. Hitmontop is probably Weavile's number one enemy, as it can come in on just about anything and threaten with Mach Punch. Additionally, Scarf users such as Heracross can easily take Weavile down. However, even Scarfed Pokemon must be wary of Ice Shard, especially if Weavile has gotten in any boosts.
Looks pretty good, Jas
"In terms of offensive sets, Entei may have better Speed (still under par due to speed creep) and mildly better attack, but the only stat in which he really beats Arc noticably is HP, which is useful for reducing FB recoil. However, Arcanine has Morning Sun access, which can prove very useful in healing off this damage. Anyway, the main thing making Arc the better offensive choice is Close Combat - which is simply invaluable to destroy Tyranitar, Heatran etc. Level Ground is laughed at by balloonTran, and Iron Head's coverage is frankly pretty awful. SE is useful, but it hits neither of these pokes hard enough, and the lesser accuracy is worse than def drops when backed up by priority. Also, Flash Fire in conjunction with these helps immensely, powering up FB to ridiculous levels (more so in Sun) as well as providing a valuable immunity especially if running a Sun team, where either poke will be wanted due to the Fire boost.
Defensively I'd argue neither is particularly viable in a meta with Heatran and Chandelure, but nonetheless Intimidate and Morning Sun are far more valuable than Entei's slightly better stats and Pressure."
This is what I posted in the OU thread for Entei, and much of it still applies here. Entei has better durability Stat wise, but if switching into Sun boosted Fire moves he's taking a ton more than FF Arc, and if switching into physical stuff he's hit slightly harder than Intimidate Arc. Morning Sun compounds the fact that Arc is better defensively in general.
In terms of moves, CC is still invaluable in UU due to hitting Chansey for instance, and Wild Bolt is much better in UU than OU due to hitting Suicune etc harder than Entei could hope to. Having the option to go Jolly while retaining your main STAB is good too.
The last sentence is why I think CM Entei works in UU - Heatran in particular is gone, making Entei have a good niche as a SpD boosting dog, with pressure no less. Once he gets FF he may get a bit of a bigger niche, but until now I see Arc as occupying most of their overlapping roles best, but Entei as still viable in some.
I addressed this a while back on the entei thread, so I'll just paste it here...
Hate to beat a dead horse and all, but just how are you using Entei? If its special, then yea I could see the calm mind set beating arcanine... However on the physical side... Its just not the case... Simply because he has slightly better stats... does not make him better... lets explore the facts shall we?
The only true advantage entei has is being able to hit other fire types super effectively with stone edge... this is something arcanine cannot do... However, this is not as important, because you usually dont counter a fire type with another fire type... Its usually going to be a water or rock type...
But besides that, Stone edge's accuracy is not great, and it provides redundant coverage (i.e. Ice, bug). It hits flying, but arcanine can too...
Not to mention that close combat hit rock types super effectively... which entie must move to iron head to do so... but close combat is more base power and more devastating than iron head... unless u get a flinch... which is can happen but is only a 30% chance. Also you have a means for supereffectively attacking normal and dark types... something entei also cant do...
Wild charge gives a 100% accuracy move to hit flying types... where as stone edge is 80% accuracy... It has the added bonus of also hitting its most common switch ins... water types super effectively... Both of them should switch if a bulky water comes in, but @ least arcanine can take out weaked ones with wild charge...
Arcanine can heal himself.. Entei Cannot
Entie's pressure is for the most part... useless... and arcanine can run flash fire just like entie can... but it also has intimidate... a great ability... and justified.. .a means in which to boost attack outside of howl. Another thing Entie cant do on the switch...
The reason coverage is so important is because outside of flare blitz, entie really isnt hitting that hard... Most physical entei use choice band because its imprtant to boost those other moves as well as flare blitz as high as possible... but being locked into moves hurt him bad unless its a late game sweep... arcanine has much more bulk with intimidate and morning sun... so it can find opps to heal itself... It can also abuse sunny day a little better as they both get a boost in stab attacks, but morning sun heals for 66% of it hp...
All in all he is simply OUTCLASSED by arcanine... I like em both... but i was a little upset @ my crown entei's performance after i took all that time to grind him to lvl 100...
Speaking of which... anyone need a lvl 100 crown entei? i am aware this is not the trade forum I just thought this would be a good time to bring it up...
Spiritomb
Ghost/Dark
50 HP / 92 Atk / 108 Def / 92 SpA / 108 SpD / 35 Spe
Spiritomb finds itself in UU again, and a welcome addition at that! The first that comes to mind when you think of Spiritomb is that it's typing gives it no weaknesses, and great defensive stats. The next thing that you think of is that these are somewhat offset by it's horrible HP stat, but still the freaky dimension splitter mon makes do.
So why use it? Well, being a Ghost it blocks Rapid Spin giving it a niche right there. STAB Pursuit and Sucker Punch are also good selling points, Being able to switch into most of the Psychic and Ghost types in the tier with impunity, and gaining a free kill against them when holding a Choice Band is kinda cool too. Shadow Sneak is a weaker, but more reliable form of priority that Spiritomb has. It's offensive movepool isn't great, lacking a real way to touch Steel and opposing Dark types outside of Hidden Power Fighting, but with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind at its disposal, Spiritomb can also pull a late game bulky sweep with Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball.
Spiritomb shines on stall teams as a sturdy Rapid Spin blocker, as well as havnig a plethora of useful support moves such as Trick and Curse. The former is useful against Stall, for crippling the likes of Chansey or Suicune with a Choice Band, and the latter useful when playing stall as a win condition against last mon boosters such as Curselax or CMcune. Will-O-Wisp is also worth a mention, for crippling threatening physical sweepers.
Spiritomb lacks a real reliable recovery, but does learn Pain Split and Rest (usually coupled with Sleep Talk for a "Crotomb" set). Choice varients appreciate Wish support.
Didn't see it in the OP but he's been really useful on the couple of teams I've made!
Also want to say Double-Dance Bisharp is super fun.
lolwifi
UU is the hot ticket on PO atm.
UU is the hot ticket on PO atm.
What about Froslass?
It hasn't changed much between gens, but with the prevalence hail, Snow Cloak can take effect and you can fire off Blizzards left and right.
Obviouisly, it never broke into OU last gen and many of the mons that did are now in UU, but it's ghost-typing is what seperates it from the faster Accelgor and bulkier Deoxys-D.
Thoughts?
It hasn't changed much between gens, but with the prevalence hail, Snow Cloak can take effect and you can fire off Blizzards left and right.
Obviouisly, it never broke into OU last gen and many of the mons that did are now in UU, but it's ghost-typing is what seperates it from the faster Accelgor and bulkier Deoxys-D.
Thoughts?
Incidentally, I was about to mention Froslass myself. Not only is it a speedy Spiker but it is also the fastest Ghost-type in UU capable of the Sub/Disable set.
It seems Froslass wasn't the only former-BL Pokemon that was neglected, though. Gallade is as anti-metagame as ever, yet he got no love. Rotom-F and Rotom-C also failed to make the list, even though they are, in my opinion, just as potent as Rotom-H. I was very surprised to not see a mention of Scyther, surely you are aware of the potential it has with Eviolite? Speaking of UU classics, where's Ambipom? It used to be one of the most common leads in UU... Seriously, who compiled this list? Primape, formerly the quickest Fighting-type in UU also seems to be missing. The question is: Why? Claydol, Swellow, Steelix...
It seems this 'threat list' was based solely on usage. All the Pokemon I have mentioned are solid team members, and none of them are outclassed in their own respects. Someone should look into including them.
Spiritomb
Ghost/Dark
50 HP / 92 Atk / 108 Def / 92 SpA / 108 SpD / 35 Spe
Spiritomb finds itself in UU again, and a welcome addition at that! The first that comes to mind when you think of Spiritomb is that it's typing gives it no weaknesses, and great defensive stats. The next thing that you think of is that these are somewhat offset by it's horrible HP stat, but still the freaky dimension splitter mon makes do.
So why use it? Well, being a Ghost it blocks Rapid Spin giving it a niche right there. STAB Pursuit and Sucker Punch are also good selling points, Being able to switch into most of the Psychic and Ghost types in the tier with impunity, and gaining a free kill against them when holding a Choice Band is kinda cool too. It's offensive movepool isn't great, lacking a real way to touch Steel and opposing Dark types outside of Hidden Power Fighting, but with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind at its disposal, Spiritomb can also pull a late game bulky sweep with Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball.
Spiritomb shines on stall teams as a sturdy Rapid Spin blocker, as well as havnig a plethora of useful support moves such as Trick and Curse. The former is useful against Stall, for crippling the likes of Chansey or Suicune with a Choice Band, and the latter useful when playing stall as a win condition against last mon boosters such as Curselax or CMcune. Will-O-Wisp is also worth a mention, for crippling threatening physical sweepers.
Spiritomb lacks a real reliable recovery, but does learn Pain Split and Rest (usually coupled with Sleep Talk for a "Crotomb" set. Choice varients appreciate Wish support.
Didn't see it in the OP but he's been really useful on the couple of teams I've made!
Also want to say Double-Dance Bisharp is super fun.
Shadow Sneak deserves a mention, especially on CB sets; it is more 'reliable' priority than sucker punch.
How is Sharpedo not on the list?
Victreebel
80 HP/105 Attack/65 Def/100 Sp.Attack/60 Sp.D/70 Speed
Victreebel is yet another massive threat under the sun, however, it brings something many of it's breathen cannot bring. The ability to sweep from either side of the spectrum. With Sleep Powder and Growth, which gives a +2 Boost under the sun, both Physical Victreebel, and Special Victreebel are horrendously powerful, made worse by the fact that Victreebel outspeeds everything except Sawsbuck under the sun. To top it all off, Victreebel is far from hapless outside of the sun, able to cause havok with Swords Dance and Sucker Punch in tandem. It's achilles heel is Priority, with most neutral forms of priority dealing upwards of 60%.