np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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As already mentioned, Starmie is one of the ten or so water type pokemon you can run on a sun team with success.

As for hippo, shut up about him. Special def hippo lives through MODEST Kyurem specs meteor, and unlike politoed, he threatens sun teams thanks to his ability to switch in on more than just Ninetales. Hippo learns superpower if you hate excadrill that much, but just pop the balloon with another poke first. Its also easier to carry teammates that handle your weaknesses.

Post limit.

Physically bulky hippo isn't as good, since he doesn't have the ability to switch in on any weather starter that isn't T-tar when he goes that route. Plus, he gains the ability to tank hits from random special attackers. Hell, he can even handle hail teams. If hippo made a popular comeback, I'd be so pissed. It's already bad enough that more people are running LO dry skin SD toxicroak with ice punch, and cbtar.
 
Hippowdon is a great bulky weather starter. Having Ttar as his competition for that spot is really the only thing holding him back. I've always had success using hippo, he can tank hits so wonderfully, reliable recovery, and that EQ hits so hard. He can have a long lifespan in weather wars thanks to all of those attributes.
 
Has anyone given Rotom-c a go? Something like

Rotom-c @ Leftovers
Modest, 164 Hp / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Leaf Storm
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

I haven't tried it but it looks pretty anti rain, not to mention it can wall Rotom-w and use volt switch to escape from being at -2.
 
Ok, so I made a team recently that uses Latias and Machamp, and I have to say they both far exceeded expectations. Latias shrugs off pretty much any special attacks like nothing, and actually BEATS Standard Mixtar 1v1 a lot of the time. Machamp may seem useless in the face of Conkledurr, but it has 3 main advantages. 1) Confusion from Dynamicpunch (obviously) 2) The ability to OHKO Gliscor with Ice Punch 3) It can outpace Standard Mixtar with no investment, which Durr can't do.
 
Has anybody tried making a (stall) team around Hippowdon? Specifically SR/Slack Off/EQ/Coverage instead of Roar in that fourth slot. The coverage provided by Elemental Fangs and Stone Edge give Hippowdon the power to specify itself as a hard counter for certain things such as Gliscor, Volcarona, SD Scizor, etc.

He can switch into Ninetales better than TTar ever could with his reliable recovery and can also switch into a few things on Rain like Toxicroak. Curious to hear people's experiences with either Physically or Specially Defensive...

alphatron said:
As already mentioned, Starmie is one of the ten or so water type pokemon you can run on a sun team with success.

As for hippo, shut up about him. Special def hippo lives through MODEST Kyurem specs meteor, and unlike politoed, he threatens sun teams thanks to his ability to switch in on more than just Ninetales. Hippo learns superpower if you hate excadrill that much, but just pop the balloon with another poke first. Its also easier to carry teammates that handle your weaknesses.

Post limit.

Physically bulky hippo isn't as good, since he doesn't have the ability to switch in on any weather starter that isn't T-tar when he goes that route. Plus, he gains the ability to tank hits from random special attackers. Hell, he can even handle hail teams. If hippo made a popular comeback, I'd be so pissed. It's already bad enough that more people are running LO dry skin SD toxicroak with ice punch, and cbtar.
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Yeah, i run this.He basically rapes ninetales, switches in on it easily and sets up sr. Also sets up sr in volcarona's face and roars it out(I run roar over coverage because he can take a hit from so much and phaze it).
He also walls any tar except bandtar. he can't handle politoed, but usually i lead with roserade and get up t-spikes. If he has toxicroak he has to bring it in, and then in comes hippowdon.

Also, latios leads are always unpleasantly surprised when they fail to ohko with modest specs draco meteor, and then i proceed to Sr on the switch-out, depriving them of 19% hp basically.

Basically, hippowdon is the best weather starter, because he can win weather stallwars.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Mach Punch is Conkledurr's big thing, so make sure you have insurance against Excadrill (I use ScarfToed so it's not really an issue).
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If you want insurance against Excadrill, you should be running Azumarill anyway.

Conkeldurr has to run either a Choice Band or Protect + Status Orb to OHKO Excadrill. This means Conkeldurr sacrifices his bulk somewhat in both cases, and loses the ability to use a buk up set correctly.

In Azumarill's case, there is no downside, as CB is easily his best set, and Azumarill can counter far more than just Excadrill anyway, hell, Azumarill's CB Aqua Jet can devesate a Sand team on it's own, especially if you predict and use an Ice Punch on a Gliscor or Latios who got cocky [Or Superpower on Ferrothorn]

Either way, no sane Excadrill, Tyranitar, or Landlos is staying in on Azumarill. And that's without going into things like Volcarona...

Leave killing Excadrill to Azumarill, and let Machamp go back where he belongs :/
 
I made a stall team at the very beginning of 5th gen with Hippowdon as my Sandstorm starter instead of Tyranitar. I ended up putting SR on Blissey because I hated Air Balloon Excadrill coming in so I ended up putting Ice Fang on it making it EQ/Slack Off/Ice Fang/Roar. Roar was still immensely useful.
 
Awww, so much time wasted...

smashlloyd20 said:
It can outpace Standard Mixtar with no investment, which Durr can't do.
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Lol, durr just mach punches ttar. Remember that WoW ruins machamp, and no guard makes every attack used against it 100% accurate.

Conkeldurr's hype is well deserved. It's a perfect switchin to ttar, it's powerful mach punch is beyond useful, and it's one of the only successful bulk uppers/stat boosters in OU.

Conkeldurr succeeds because it can heal itself and deal with status. Gallade can't risk a burn. Machamp can't recover HP. Conk is bulky, powerful, has priority, great typing and room for three moves. It's one of, if not the best slow bulky boosters in the game. (Scrafty and manaphy ect.)
 
Raikaria said:
If you want insurance against Excadrill, you should be running Azumarill anyway.

Conkeldurr has to run either a Choice Band or Protect + Status Orb to OHKO Excadrill. This means Conkeldurr sacrifices his bulk somewhat in both cases, and loses the ability to use a buk up set correctly.

In Azumarill's case, there is no downside, as CB is easily his best set, and Azumarill can counter far more than just Excadrill anyway, hell, Azumarill's CB Aqua Jet can devesate a Sand team on it's own, especially if you predict and use an Ice Punch on a Gliscor or Latios who got cocky [Or Superpower on Ferrothorn]

Either way, no sane Excadrill, Tyranitar, or Landlos is staying in on Azumarill. And that's without going into things like Volcarona...

Leave killing Excadrill to Azumarill, and let Machamp go back where he belongs :/
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yeah, azumarill is like cheap "the general" insurance-It sounds great, but in case your car gets wrecked, you're fucked.

In more serious terms, i generally just outstall azumarill, or attack on the switch. For example, if i'm forcing out a latios by the threat of x-scissor, i can just...use x-scissor. If latios stays in, it dies. If not, azumarill is taking large amounts of damage. Then i go to my skarmory and start setting up spikes in azu's face. Continue until azumarill is dead, sweep entire team. Conkeldurr's ability to set up bulk ups and drain punch means you can't just switch out and wall his ass to death.
 
tehy, you traitor! You told me you'd keep hippo's success to yourself! Now I'm gonna spill the beans on your excadrill set!

Azu is a legit revenge killer, but I can see why he's unpopular. Between no hazard immunity, the inability to switch into stronger attacks, and a specified selection of pokemon it can actually be useful against, its not as appealing in practice. When you aren't fighting a sandstorm team especially.

Also, dragonite is broken. Requesting emergency ban NOW. What do others run to bea-
 
I agree Dragonite is an absolute pain. I usually beat it by playing around it. Having SR up makes it much more manageable as it loses multiscale upon entry. In general just don't let it get an opportunity to get two DD's as it becomes insanely difficult to out speed.
 
Dragonite isn't broken it's really good and can run a multitude of sets and while multiscale helps it just isn't enough to warrant a emergency ban let alone a ban at all.
 
JT Swift said:
Awww, so much time wasted...



Lol, durr just mach punches ttar. Remember that WoW ruins machamp, and no guard makes every attack used against it 100% accurate.

Conkeldurr's hype is well deserved. It's a perfect switchin to ttar, it's powerful mach punch is beyond useful, and it's one of the only successful bulk uppers/stat boosters in OU.

Conkeldurr succeeds because it can heal itself and deal with status. Gallade can't risk a burn. Machamp can't recover HP. Conk is bulky, powerful, has priority, great typing and room for three moves. It's one of, if not the best slow bulky boosters in the game. (Scrafty and manaphy ect.)
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First of all, even Max+ Conkledurr can't OHKO Standard Mixtar with Mach Punch.

Second, Machamp is a terrible Bulk Up user. What it can do is run an excellent Sub+3 attacks set. Try not to make assumptions that Machamp is copying Conkledurr.

Oh and Durr is nowhere near the best bulky booster in OU when you have things like Reninculus and Latias running rampant (but I digress).
 
Dragonite? I've used it, and it gets trolled by status very badly. Burn and Paralysis cripple it, and Poison means it can't stick around for too long. Dragonite also suffers from 4ms, as its got a bunch of options to use(2 out of what? EQ, ESpeed, Fire Punch, Dragon Claw, Waterfall, they are all rather useful :/)

Conkeldurr sucks at bulky booster, with his rather lulz SpDef, Scrafty or Gallade are much better options.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
First of all, even Max+ Conkledurr can't OHKO Standard Mixtar with Mach Punch.

Second, Machamp is a terrible Bulk Up user. What it can do is run an excellent Sub+3 attacks set. Try not to make assumptions that Machamp is copying Conkledurr.

Oh and Durr is nowhere near the best bulky booster in OU when you have things like Reninculus and Latias running rampant (but I digress).
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Why does it even matter? Conkeldurr isn't threatened by Tyranitar; any damage dealt to it will be comfortably negated with Drain Punch
 
I gotta say I've been running into lead Choice Band Dragonite more often than not lately. That set is incredibly good. Unless you have a Steel-type that can at the very least 2HKO Dragonite while not getting KOd in the process, you're probably going to lose a Pokemon to it. Choice Band Dragons are normally easy enough to deal with, but Multiscale just makes it an absolute chore to take down. And it's out on turn 1 so they're no breaking it's Multiscale before it starts up without resorting to Rugged Helmet or Iron Thorns. And even then Dragonite can go lolFirePunch and wipe Ferro out.

It loses to things like Paraflinch Jirachi & Scarf WoW Rotom, but if you lack those, you're losing a huge amount of HP if not an entire Pokemon.

I want to hear what you guys use to deal with it. I have WoW Ninetales & Iron Head-Ice Punch Jirachi. Neither are exactly complete counters.
 
The problem with Dragonite is that it kind of sucks without Multiscale, so it has to use that as a crutch to make its sets effective. Raw powered Life Orb sets are usually Salamence's territory, and for good reason. It has to run Leftovers on almost all of its sets (Lum is acceptable too), which weakens its damage output and makes it easier for walls to handle. I just stopped a DDNite earlier today with a defensive Tangrowth, which is by no means a counter, but got the job done considering Dragonite didn't have the raw muscle to overpower it before falling to HP Ice. It has no counters the same way Salamence has no counters; while technically true, it can still be checked pretty well under common metagame conditions. Keeping Stealth Rock up isn't so hard.
 
I agree with SJCrew. Without Multiscale, Dragonite is not hard to beat. It's speed isn't the greatest, and assuming DD, you only have an option of 2 attacking moves, or be forced to give up Roost, making it not that difficult to stop. Not to mention, with all the Jellicents and stall running around, keeping up SR is not that hard. If Dragonite's speed was higher, it could be considered more of a threat.
 
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