Who has won?
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OU CCAT: Nidoking Edition
- Thread starter Pocket
- Start date
Although I know this might not be "kosher", I suggest counting all the Abomasnow votes as Kyurem, and make a beautiful team with both. >.> Totally not biased, though. I WANT A HAIL TEAM- I mean, that would please many people at the same time.
I know that my vote for Aboma was more a vote for Hail, and I truly believe that Kyurem would function best in Hail.
I know that my vote for Aboma was more a vote for Hail, and I truly believe that Kyurem would function best in Hail.
Nidoking
And the winner is...
Dragonite (SubRoost + ParaShuffle) - 20 pts
Abomasnow (Hail abuse) - 24 pts
Cloyster (Shell Smash) - 27 pts
Staraptor (Reckless Sweeper) - 28 pts
Scrafty (Dragon Dance) - 37 pts
Kyurem (Substitute + 3 Attacks) - 38 pts
Nidoking (Sheer Force + Life Orb) - 46 pts
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EV's: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Earth Power
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Fire Blast / Flamethrower
After a long strife between Kyurem and Nidoking, the purple beast cut through the snow storm summoned by Kyurem and shoved its purple horn into Kyurem’s thick hide. After a shriek of long-forgotten pain, Kyurem collapsed and splashed loudly into the pond of its cold draconic blood… the end@!
Congrats to Axmaster68 for the winner nomination!
Along with team style, I would like us to submit 1 or 2 team mates that can serve either as an offensive and / or defensive core to benefit Nidoking.
Here are the overall options for team styles – you do NOT have to pick from these options (ie you may be more specific)
Heavy / Hyper Offense – heavily offensively oriented, sacrifices defensive coverage with offensive pressure. Includes Dual Screens, Smash Pass, and DragMag-esque teams.
Bulky Offense / Balance / Semi-Stall – have both an offensive core to push through the opponent’s defenses, as well as defensive pivots to fall back on.
Defensive / Stall – relies on entry hazards and impenetrable defensive cores to wear down the opponent.
Weather – heavily relies on the weather boost / nerfs to enhance the team’s offense / defense
As far as Nidoking’s team mates, it should achieve one or more of the following:
Lure – This team mate holds similar counters as Nidoking, and must lure these counters and fatally damage / remove them so that they cannot halt Nidoking.
Complementary Sweeper – This team mate takes advantage of Nidoking drawing in certain counters and use these predictable switch-ins as opportunities to set-up. It must be an effective wall-breaker / stall-breaker to prevent the skarmbliss dilemma (ie Nidoking gets walled by Chansey, the complementary offense gets walled by Skarmory).
Type Coverage – This team mate contributes defensively, providing a solid switch-in to monsters that are threatening to Nidoking, such as Rotom-W, Landorus, Chansey, and Latias, for instance.
So for this phase please submit 1 team style and 1-2 team mates for Nidoking!.
The nomination process is open-ended: you may nominate multiple times as long as you back them up.
I am expecting a lot of discussions to back up these submissions!!!
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EV's: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Earth Power
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam
-Fire Blast / Flamethrower
After a long strife between Kyurem and Nidoking, the purple beast cut through the snow storm summoned by Kyurem and shoved its purple horn into Kyurem’s thick hide. After a shriek of long-forgotten pain, Kyurem collapsed and splashed loudly into the pond of its cold draconic blood… the end@!
Congrats to Axmaster68 for the winner nomination!
Phase 2 – Team Style & Team Mates
Now we finally set our foot in the beginning stages of a team built to pull out Nidoking’s qualities. In this phase, we will be discuss 2 things – the overall team style that we want to build our team around. Deciding on a team style would help guide us in selecting Nidoking’s team mates. However, team style is only a tool of guidance and should not restrict us from any possible team mate options, as long as we back them up with solid support. Along with team style, I would like us to submit 1 or 2 team mates that can serve either as an offensive and / or defensive core to benefit Nidoking.
Here are the overall options for team styles – you do NOT have to pick from these options (ie you may be more specific)
Heavy / Hyper Offense – heavily offensively oriented, sacrifices defensive coverage with offensive pressure. Includes Dual Screens, Smash Pass, and DragMag-esque teams.
Bulky Offense / Balance / Semi-Stall – have both an offensive core to push through the opponent’s defenses, as well as defensive pivots to fall back on.
Defensive / Stall – relies on entry hazards and impenetrable defensive cores to wear down the opponent.
Weather – heavily relies on the weather boost / nerfs to enhance the team’s offense / defense
As far as Nidoking’s team mates, it should achieve one or more of the following:
Lure – This team mate holds similar counters as Nidoking, and must lure these counters and fatally damage / remove them so that they cannot halt Nidoking.
Complementary Sweeper – This team mate takes advantage of Nidoking drawing in certain counters and use these predictable switch-ins as opportunities to set-up. It must be an effective wall-breaker / stall-breaker to prevent the skarmbliss dilemma (ie Nidoking gets walled by Chansey, the complementary offense gets walled by Skarmory).
Type Coverage – This team mate contributes defensively, providing a solid switch-in to monsters that are threatening to Nidoking, such as Rotom-W, Landorus, Chansey, and Latias, for instance.
So for this phase please submit 1 team style and 1-2 team mates for Nidoking!.
The nomination process is open-ended: you may nominate multiple times as long as you back them up.
I am expecting a lot of discussions to back up these submissions!!!
I say we go with Bulky Offense. Nidoking works best when the opponent's Pokemons are paralyzed and thus can be outsped by the King, as the only true problem with Nidoking is it's lackluster speed which isn't quite good enough to be a godly sweeper. With entry hazards and paralysis support, Nidoking could prove to be an extremely formidable foe.
As for teammates, it's important to cover Nidoking's few weaknesses (water, ice, psychic, ground), and it's also important to lay down entry hazards and paralysis support to improve Nidoking's ability to pull of a sweep. Because of this, I recommend Support Celebi and Skarmory as teammates, for their ability to create synergy with Nidoking's great typing and support him with paralysis and entry hazards.
As for teammates, it's important to cover Nidoking's few weaknesses (water, ice, psychic, ground), and it's also important to lay down entry hazards and paralysis support to improve Nidoking's ability to pull of a sweep. Because of this, I recommend Support Celebi and Skarmory as teammates, for their ability to create synergy with Nidoking's great typing and support him with paralysis and entry hazards.
I agree with Bulky Offense, in terms of Nido's speed problem. His other teammates on a Bulky Offense would most likely benefit from para spreading, lessening Nido's clash with his own team. He would also benefit immensely from entry hazards, turning 2HKOs into OHKOs.
Seeing as Nidoking really wants that paralysis support, SDef Jirachi would pair with a bulky offense team excellently, spreading paralysis with Body Slam/Thunder Wave, and maintaining momentum and easing prediction with U-Turn. LOMie would also function excellently in such a team, absorbing status and providing a key Water resist. Starmie also would do an excellent job at taking common priority and cleaning up the holes that Nidoking punches in teams. Starmie can also Rapid Spin effectively, allowing team members to switch in and out without concern. To offset the lack of Recover on Starmie, we would benefit from a Wish passer, a role Jirachi already fits nicely.
Edit:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 224 SDef, 32 Spd
Nature: Careful (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head/U-Turn
- Body Slam / Thunder / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- U-Turn / Stealth Rock / Fire Punch / Protect
Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Recover
I also agree with Parashuffler Dragonite being used as a potential teammate.
Seeing as Nidoking really wants that paralysis support, SDef Jirachi would pair with a bulky offense team excellently, spreading paralysis with Body Slam/Thunder Wave, and maintaining momentum and easing prediction with U-Turn. LOMie would also function excellently in such a team, absorbing status and providing a key Water resist. Starmie also would do an excellent job at taking common priority and cleaning up the holes that Nidoking punches in teams. Starmie can also Rapid Spin effectively, allowing team members to switch in and out without concern. To offset the lack of Recover on Starmie, we would benefit from a Wish passer, a role Jirachi already fits nicely.
Edit:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 224 SDef, 32 Spd
Nature: Careful (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head/U-Turn
- Body Slam / Thunder / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- U-Turn / Stealth Rock / Fire Punch / Protect
Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin / Recover
I also agree with Parashuffler Dragonite being used as a potential teammate.
I am also going with a bulky offense team because Nido's speed is just under what it needs to be.
His team mates should be Para-Shuffler D-nite and And support Tentacruel will be appreciated by the king. We need a spinner and water typed support help break down walls. As for Nite, his advanced bulk is needed to counteract Nido's lack of bulk.
Be warned: i have 0 EV skills...
Tenta set: Max HP and Sp.Def, 4 def /// Leftovers /// Rain Dish /// Rapid Spin, Giga Drain(reliable recovery and great for countering Gastro) Icy Wind (lowers speed on the switch to help Nido), and Hydro Pump /// the nature that lowers Atk and raises def.
Para-Shuffler D-nite: same as the one that was nominated on post #309.
His team mates should be Para-Shuffler D-nite and And support Tentacruel will be appreciated by the king. We need a spinner and water typed support help break down walls. As for Nite, his advanced bulk is needed to counteract Nido's lack of bulk.
Be warned: i have 0 EV skills...
Tenta set: Max HP and Sp.Def, 4 def /// Leftovers /// Rain Dish /// Rapid Spin, Giga Drain(reliable recovery and great for countering Gastro) Icy Wind (lowers speed on the switch to help Nido), and Hydro Pump /// the nature that lowers Atk and raises def.
Para-Shuffler D-nite: same as the one that was nominated on post #309.
I'm all for Bulky Offense as well, as I think it plays to Nidoking's strengths the best. Nidoking isn't a fit on high offense because of his middling speed, and he doesn't have the defenses or moveset to function well on stall or balance. I think it's pretty clear how we should move here.
As for teammates, I concur with the idea of using SD Jirachi, which I know very well from having used it a lot. It's great for wish passing, keeping Nidoking alive longer and can spread paralysis extremely well. Additionally, it covers 2 of Nidoking's weaknesses and fares well against most water types as well, especially if we opt for Thunder over its other paralyzing options. Another obvious teamate for it that syncs very well with both Jirachi and Nidoking is the omnipresent Dragonite. Yeah I know everyone uses it, but it's no secret who the king of bulky offense is and it covers Nidoking's Water and Ground weaknesses very well. It can even go mixed to lure in Chansey and Blissey should we so desire, or it can just flat out demolish them with outrage. Don't forget that it can go both ways; a lot of people still don't know Nidoking is almost completely special based, and so he has a decent chance of luring out things like Skarmory and KOing them for DD dragonite. Now, whether we decide to go with dragon dance, mixed, or parashuffle dragonite (all of which compliment Nidoking in different ways) is up for debate.
As for teammates, I concur with the idea of using SD Jirachi, which I know very well from having used it a lot. It's great for wish passing, keeping Nidoking alive longer and can spread paralysis extremely well. Additionally, it covers 2 of Nidoking's weaknesses and fares well against most water types as well, especially if we opt for Thunder over its other paralyzing options. Another obvious teamate for it that syncs very well with both Jirachi and Nidoking is the omnipresent Dragonite. Yeah I know everyone uses it, but it's no secret who the king of bulky offense is and it covers Nidoking's Water and Ground weaknesses very well. It can even go mixed to lure in Chansey and Blissey should we so desire, or it can just flat out demolish them with outrage. Don't forget that it can go both ways; a lot of people still don't know Nidoking is almost completely special based, and so he has a decent chance of luring out things like Skarmory and KOing them for DD dragonite. Now, whether we decide to go with dragon dance, mixed, or parashuffle dragonite (all of which compliment Nidoking in different ways) is up for debate.
Again I am also vouching for bulky offence, with paralysis support and maybe tailwind support for a late game clean up.
Whimsicott is able to do both of these, with priority as well, so I suggest we use him. The set is:
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stun Spore
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Leech Seed
Stun Spore and Tailwind make up for the only lacklustre thing about nidoking: his speed, allowing him to deal significant damage to the opponent without having to worry about being outsped. We could also run taunt or encore over leech seed, allowing him to stop set up sweepers in their tracks or to help to cancel out chansey who is a problem for Nidoking.
Rotom-W also works very well on the defensive side, covering his water,ground, and ice weaknesses, and also can spread paralysis very well with a bulky set, what I have in mind is this:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
Physically defensive Rotom-W is a very efficient paralysis spreader in my experience, and also covers 3 of nidokings 4 weaknesses, while being neutral to the 4th. He has only 1 weakness which is resisted by whimsicott, and of course possibly by further team members. If anyone wants to see it I have a log of this Rotom working very well, paralysing all the important threats and staying alive all game (with a little help from hax): http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-shnen2-vs-Davinci--2011-11-12
I also second the idea of para shuffler nite, and we should also have spikes support from someone, I would nominate skarmory as he has access to reliable recovery instead of Ferrothorn, although Ferro can also paralyse with t-wave...
Whimsicott is able to do both of these, with priority as well, so I suggest we use him. The set is:
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Stun Spore
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Leech Seed
Stun Spore and Tailwind make up for the only lacklustre thing about nidoking: his speed, allowing him to deal significant damage to the opponent without having to worry about being outsped. We could also run taunt or encore over leech seed, allowing him to stop set up sweepers in their tracks or to help to cancel out chansey who is a problem for Nidoking.
Rotom-W also works very well on the defensive side, covering his water,ground, and ice weaknesses, and also can spread paralysis very well with a bulky set, what I have in mind is this:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
Physically defensive Rotom-W is a very efficient paralysis spreader in my experience, and also covers 3 of nidokings 4 weaknesses, while being neutral to the 4th. He has only 1 weakness which is resisted by whimsicott, and of course possibly by further team members. If anyone wants to see it I have a log of this Rotom working very well, paralysing all the important threats and staying alive all game (with a little help from hax): http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-shnen2-vs-Davinci--2011-11-12
I also second the idea of para shuffler nite, and we should also have spikes support from someone, I would nominate skarmory as he has access to reliable recovery instead of Ferrothorn, although Ferro can also paralyse with t-wave...
Bulky offense agreed. However I think we should use whimsicott for priority stun spore + tailwind; subdd d-nite (think stone cold's d-nite) can set up on chansey alllll day.
subdd d-nite all credits toward stone cold & whoever helped him make it
Dragonite @ Lefties
Careful (+Sp. Def, - Sp.atk)
252 HP, 16 Sp. Def, 80 Def, 160 Speed
-Sub
-DD
-Roost
-Dragon Claw
EXTREMELY effective. however, parashuffling d-nite is the best para spreader in the game so don't leave that out; i will be testing both subdd nite + whimisicott and parashuffling d-nite by itself
EDIT: alright guys atm our team seems to have agreed on d-nite, nidoking, and jirachi all making an appearance; that's 2 para spreaders and a wish supporter along with our main 'mon. just to recap.
subdd d-nite all credits toward stone cold & whoever helped him make it
Dragonite @ Lefties
Careful (+Sp. Def, - Sp.atk)
252 HP, 16 Sp. Def, 80 Def, 160 Speed
-Sub
-DD
-Roost
-Dragon Claw
EXTREMELY effective. however, parashuffling d-nite is the best para spreader in the game so don't leave that out; i will be testing both subdd nite + whimisicott and parashuffling d-nite by itself
EDIT: alright guys atm our team seems to have agreed on d-nite, nidoking, and jirachi all making an appearance; that's 2 para spreaders and a wish supporter along with our main 'mon. just to recap.
A team around Nidoking eh?
Bulky Offense is obviously the way to go, as many other people have suggested already. I don't go into that yet.
Now, the first thing to do, in my opinion, is look at Nidoking's resistances and weaknesses. As a Bulky Offense team often uses resistances to help acheive it's goal.
x2 Weakness:
Water
Psychic
Ground
Ice
x2 Resistances
Fighting
Bug
Rock
x4 Resistances
Poision
Immunities:
Electric
---
So then, looking at this, we want teammates that can cover Nidoking's weaknesses, and also give him chances to switch in.
For this role, the first teammate I would suggest is Defensive Celebi.
Defensive Celebi covers three of Nidoking's weaknesses, and is bulky enough to shrug off most Ice-Type attacks, as they are often Un-STAB'ed. Nidoking resists Bug and Poision, which, admittedly, could be better in terms of synergy on Celebi's end, but, that's what happens when you have 7 weaknesses.
Defensive Celebi can act as a pivot, and can also spread Paralysis. It can also take status if need be, due to Natural Cure. The set can also be tweaked to fit the team's needs, especially in terms of Hidden Power.
Basically, Celebi brings:
- Vital resistances to Water, Psychic and Ground
- Paralysis Support
- The chance of Nidoking to come in on Bug-type attacks
---
The second teammate I suggest is Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados. Nidoking is primarily a Special Attacker, so Gyarados can act as a physical attacker. In additton, Taunt helps to prevent opposing set-ups. Bounce can also help spread Paralysis, with a little hax.
In addittion, Gyarados brings another resistance to Water, Neutrality to Ice, and Immunity to Ground. He also covers Celebi's weakness to Fire.
Gyarados can also function as a late game sweeper/cleaner, if Nidoking finds itself as a wallbreaker against certain teams. A Plan B is always good!
Finally, Nidoking resists or is immune to both of Gyarados' weaknesses. Gyarados is neutral, resistant or immune to all four of Nidoking's.
Basically, Gyarados brings to the table:
- Excellent type synergy with Nidoking
- Physical attacking
- Taunt
- A backup sweeper/cleaner
---
It's worth mentioning that due to gaps left open to Dark, Ghost and Dragon types, a Steel type is looking very god for the 4th slot with this team setup. Particually, Heatran, Scizor, Ferrothorn and Skarmory.
Bulky Offense is obviously the way to go, as many other people have suggested already. I don't go into that yet.
Now, the first thing to do, in my opinion, is look at Nidoking's resistances and weaknesses. As a Bulky Offense team often uses resistances to help acheive it's goal.
x2 Weakness:
Water
Psychic
Ground
Ice
x2 Resistances
Fighting
Bug
Rock
x4 Resistances
Poision
Immunities:
Electric
---
So then, looking at this, we want teammates that can cover Nidoking's weaknesses, and also give him chances to switch in.
For this role, the first teammate I would suggest is Defensive Celebi.
Defensive Celebi covers three of Nidoking's weaknesses, and is bulky enough to shrug off most Ice-Type attacks, as they are often Un-STAB'ed. Nidoking resists Bug and Poision, which, admittedly, could be better in terms of synergy on Celebi's end, but, that's what happens when you have 7 weaknesses.
Defensive Celebi can act as a pivot, and can also spread Paralysis. It can also take status if need be, due to Natural Cure. The set can also be tweaked to fit the team's needs, especially in terms of Hidden Power.
Basically, Celebi brings:
- Vital resistances to Water, Psychic and Ground
- Paralysis Support
- The chance of Nidoking to come in on Bug-type attacks
---
The second teammate I suggest is Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados. Nidoking is primarily a Special Attacker, so Gyarados can act as a physical attacker. In additton, Taunt helps to prevent opposing set-ups. Bounce can also help spread Paralysis, with a little hax.
In addittion, Gyarados brings another resistance to Water, Neutrality to Ice, and Immunity to Ground. He also covers Celebi's weakness to Fire.
Gyarados can also function as a late game sweeper/cleaner, if Nidoking finds itself as a wallbreaker against certain teams. A Plan B is always good!
Finally, Nidoking resists or is immune to both of Gyarados' weaknesses. Gyarados is neutral, resistant or immune to all four of Nidoking's.
Basically, Gyarados brings to the table:
- Excellent type synergy with Nidoking
- Physical attacking
- Taunt
- A backup sweeper/cleaner
---
It's worth mentioning that due to gaps left open to Dark, Ghost and Dragon types, a Steel type is looking very god for the 4th slot with this team setup. Particually, Heatran, Scizor, Ferrothorn and Skarmory.
Nido is too slow to work as an all out sweeper like Infernape or Gengar. As mentioned, para support is nice and also something that can take on special walls like the blobs and Volcarona as well as something that can cover its weaknesses to psychic, ice, water, and Rotom-w.
First we should look for a partner that can break walls. We should get to the defensive teammates later. This can't be handled in one mon, but for the partner I'd make sure it can break special walls. We need a wallbreaker. Nido doesn't have many counters that wall it by typing because of its coverage. Once we get to the defensive core we will deal with Volcarona and Rotom-w. As for the partner, something like Expert Belt Mix Hydreigon would be a unexpected and powerful choice. With Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Earthquake / Taunt it can damage any Blissey switching in and taunt it stop recovery to wear it down. Draco Metoer + Earthquake also deals with Heatran and Ttar who are potential checks to Nidoking. They share ice weaknesses so keep that in mind.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Taunt
First we should look for a partner that can break walls. We should get to the defensive teammates later. This can't be handled in one mon, but for the partner I'd make sure it can break special walls. We need a wallbreaker. Nido doesn't have many counters that wall it by typing because of its coverage. Once we get to the defensive core we will deal with Volcarona and Rotom-w. As for the partner, something like Expert Belt Mix Hydreigon would be a unexpected and powerful choice. With Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Earthquake / Taunt it can damage any Blissey switching in and taunt it stop recovery to wear it down. Draco Metoer + Earthquake also deals with Heatran and Ttar who are potential checks to Nidoking. They share ice weaknesses so keep that in mind.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Taunt
I am honored to have given the winning nomination for a team built by the community, so thanks guys! On another note, I am all for Bulky Offense for the team type. One teammate that really comes to mind is Haxkiss. Here's the set
Togekiss@ Lefties
Calm and Serene Grace
252 HP/4 Def/ 252 SDef
-Body Slam/Thunder Wave
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere/Flamethrower/Nasty Plot
-Roost
Paralysis Support, covering of one weakness of Nidoking, even though they share an Ice weakness, and a chance to sweep slower opponents, I've used this set to great effect in OU. Yes, I know Togekiss is UU, but when it comes to paralysis support and bulkyness without too many weaknesses, such as Celebi, which has 7, Togekiss has only 3, in Rock, Electric, and Ice. Togekiss does come with an SR weakness, but that's where this next member comes in:
Starmie@ Lefties/LO
Timid and Natural Cure
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
-Rapid Spin
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
-Recover(/T-bolt/Ice Beam)
Rapid Spin Support, weaknesses of both Nidoking and Togekiss covered to an extent, and MORE Gen 1 love! Starmie would be a great fit as a spinner and as an offensive power, coupled with the fact that it synergiezes amazingly with Nidoking, resisting every weakness it has, while the King takes care of Electric and Bug type moves Starmie would get. Starmie even synergizes well with Togekiss, resisting Ice and Rock moves, while Togekiss resists Bug, Ghost, and Grass.
Keep in mind that each potential member listed here shares one and only one weakness with either Starmie, Nidoking, or Togekiss, but that can be easily taken care of with a different member, not to mention the fact that each member that does not share a weakness with the other two either resists it or is immune to it.
Togekiss@ Lefties
Calm and Serene Grace
252 HP/4 Def/ 252 SDef
-Body Slam/Thunder Wave
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere/Flamethrower/Nasty Plot
-Roost
Paralysis Support, covering of one weakness of Nidoking, even though they share an Ice weakness, and a chance to sweep slower opponents, I've used this set to great effect in OU. Yes, I know Togekiss is UU, but when it comes to paralysis support and bulkyness without too many weaknesses, such as Celebi, which has 7, Togekiss has only 3, in Rock, Electric, and Ice. Togekiss does come with an SR weakness, but that's where this next member comes in:
Starmie@ Lefties/LO
Timid and Natural Cure
4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd
-Rapid Spin
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
-Recover(/T-bolt/Ice Beam)
Rapid Spin Support, weaknesses of both Nidoking and Togekiss covered to an extent, and MORE Gen 1 love! Starmie would be a great fit as a spinner and as an offensive power, coupled with the fact that it synergiezes amazingly with Nidoking, resisting every weakness it has, while the King takes care of Electric and Bug type moves Starmie would get. Starmie even synergizes well with Togekiss, resisting Ice and Rock moves, while Togekiss resists Bug, Ghost, and Grass.
Keep in mind that each potential member listed here shares one and only one weakness with either Starmie, Nidoking, or Togekiss, but that can be easily taken care of with a different member, not to mention the fact that each member that does not share a weakness with the other two either resists it or is immune to it.
2 Ground weaknesses aren't the end of the world, and this Pokemon can deal with things like Reuniclus, Blissey, and Chansey that can (sometimes) beat Nidoking. He's also going to spread paralysis so Nidoking can actually outspeed things. I'm talking about this big nig,
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 224 SpD, 32 Spe
-Iron Troll
-Troll Slam
-Wish (you could hit me)
-Fire Punch/Stealth Rock
And what's better for Nidoking+Jirachi than something to grab the momentum for these guys? I think Scarf Rotom-W is the best choice here, as he provides a Ground immunity, access to Trick to troll Blissey is she decides to rear her ugly face, and can come in on Politoed that could potentially beat Nidoboss.
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid, what the hell do you think the EVs are??
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power (ice)
-Trick
Hydreigon is also a Pokemon I would consider, but idk.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
252 HP, 224 SpD, 32 Spe
-Iron Troll
-Troll Slam
-Wish (you could hit me)
-Fire Punch/Stealth Rock
And what's better for Nidoking+Jirachi than something to grab the momentum for these guys? I think Scarf Rotom-W is the best choice here, as he provides a Ground immunity, access to Trick to troll Blissey is she decides to rear her ugly face, and can come in on Politoed that could potentially beat Nidoboss.
Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid, what the hell do you think the EVs are??
-Volt Switch
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power (ice)
-Trick
Hydreigon is also a Pokemon I would consider, but idk.
Even with paralysis support nidoking isn't sweeping anytime soon,
Nidoking doesn't need wallbreaker teammates because nidoking IS the wallbreaker with it's great offensive coverage.
Another important thing to remember is that nidoking can absorb toxic spikes
With something to take care of the fat pink blobs Nidoking can break down Walls for sweepers with more appropriate stats and capabilities.
In that respect a CB TERRAKION would be best being able to scare off blissey and can 2hko most Walls anyway to help out Nidoking
Building an entire team around Nidoking isn't the best of ideas we should probably find another mon to build around also.
Also why isthe OU ccat starting of with a UU mon? 9.9
Nidoking doesn't need wallbreaker teammates because nidoking IS the wallbreaker with it's great offensive coverage.
Another important thing to remember is that nidoking can absorb toxic spikes
With something to take care of the fat pink blobs Nidoking can break down Walls for sweepers with more appropriate stats and capabilities.
In that respect a CB TERRAKION would be best being able to scare off blissey and can 2hko most Walls anyway to help out Nidoking
Building an entire team around Nidoking isn't the best of ideas we should probably find another mon to build around also.
Also why isthe OU ccat starting of with a UU mon? 9.9
Yeah, I don't think Nidoking is the ideal pokemon to build a team around considering it's a wall breaker, and so its role is more of a support role for another Pokemon. Besides, Hail would have been the clear winner here should more people have voted on Kyurem rather than Abomasnow (to those that only voted for Abomasnow FYI, Abomasnow is pretty much a given as a partner for Kyurem -.-).
However, I guess Nidoking will just have to make do. IMO, it really wants Chansey and Blissey out of the way. I've found the infamous switcher core of Rotom-W and Scizor to be an excellent way of trapping them. Hell, even Band Tyranitar can take Scizor's place for a timely and powerful Pursuit on the two weakening them to the point they can't wall Nidoking. Nidoking's immunity to the sand only helps it wear its opponents, most notably Chansey, down quicker. Next we can worry about spreading Paralysis. I'll give the rest of you guys the chance to figure this out. :p
However, I guess Nidoking will just have to make do. IMO, it really wants Chansey and Blissey out of the way. I've found the infamous switcher core of Rotom-W and Scizor to be an excellent way of trapping them. Hell, even Band Tyranitar can take Scizor's place for a timely and powerful Pursuit on the two weakening them to the point they can't wall Nidoking. Nidoking's immunity to the sand only helps it wear its opponents, most notably Chansey, down quicker. Next we can worry about spreading Paralysis. I'll give the rest of you guys the chance to figure this out. :p
I don't see how Nidoking is a wallbreaker; it can't even beat skarm bliss. It doesn't matter if nido can 2HKO every other member of stall, it will not do anything to skarm bliss. The advantages it has now are that teams with offensive set up sweepers will not be able to set up on Nido due to its coverage. Also Chansey and Blissey run protect so they can scout for the CB pursuit and recover off timely u-turns.
Protect on the Pursuit and then what? Risk getting hit by an Expert Belt Superpower? Last I remember, after the sassy mixtar fad, Superpower, Flamethrower, Pursuit, Crunch became the most popular set. idk now cuz I haven't played OU much since the bans, but Chansey and Blissey are definitely not safe if they have to keep switching out of CB Stone Edge and take hazard damage at which point Pursuit will kill them regardless of whether or not they switch out, especially since SS negates Blissey's only form of recovery left: Leftovers. Also, Blissey can recover off U-turns, but if it stays in it risks getting KOed by Superpower the next time. ;)
Edit: Also, skarmbliss isn't the only wall combination out there. When you're saying, "It can't even beat skarmbliss," you're speaking as if Skarmbliss isn't the best walling combination out there when it arguably is. It has solidified itself as an excellent core for several generations. If Nidoking can't beat it, it doesn't mean it's not a wall breaker. Haxorus can't beat Skarmbliss without some luck with Rivalry and hazards damage. Doesn't mean it isn't a wall breaker. Also, Nidoking craps all over Ferrocent so that should solidify it as some form of a wallbreaker.
Edit: Also, skarmbliss isn't the only wall combination out there. When you're saying, "It can't even beat skarmbliss," you're speaking as if Skarmbliss isn't the best walling combination out there when it arguably is. It has solidified itself as an excellent core for several generations. If Nidoking can't beat it, it doesn't mean it's not a wall breaker. Haxorus can't beat Skarmbliss without some luck with Rivalry and hazards damage. Doesn't mean it isn't a wall breaker. Also, Nidoking craps all over Ferrocent so that should solidify it as some form of a wallbreaker.
What I meant is that it can't be put on the team as a definite wallbreaker with only stuff like Celetran and Gyarados covering it since it will not be able to beat defensive teams on its own. Since Chansey is a staple on rain stall it will run into alot of problems.
Protect stops Scizor. Chansey can recover off the superpowers. I'll get back to this later w/ calcs. I have to go somewhere now.
Protect stops Scizor. Chansey can recover off the superpowers. I'll get back to this later w/ calcs. I have to go somewhere now.
I took it on myself to do the calcs for you and Superpower is doing 81%-95% damage against Chansey, a good chance to OHKO with SR. Assuming we use Spikes, Scizor can keep forcing the blobs out after coming in on Volt Switch (what else is taking this from Rain Stall that can't be exploited?) with Superpower. Even if Chansey protects it will be forced to switch out next turn stacking the damage as it comes in eventually putting it into Pursuit KO zone. If they don't want to switch in Chansey then something else will have to take Volt Switch weakening their team further.
I just realized, Gliscor is going to be an issue when paired with Chansey (unless your prediction is perfect) if we use this core, though. >.>
Then again, Gliscor doesn't like taking CB Stone Edge from Tyranitar so I guess CBtar would be better in this case. Yeah, Gliscor is taking 50-60% from Stone Edge and Chansey is much the same, except it's taking an extra 6% every turn so they can't stall you out.
I just realized, Gliscor is going to be an issue when paired with Chansey (unless your prediction is perfect) if we use this core, though. >.>
Then again, Gliscor doesn't like taking CB Stone Edge from Tyranitar so I guess CBtar would be better in this case. Yeah, Gliscor is taking 50-60% from Stone Edge and Chansey is much the same, except it's taking an extra 6% every turn so they can't stall you out.
Nido is too slow to work as an all out sweeper like Infernape or Gengar. As mentioned, para support is nice and also something that can take on special walls like the blobs and Volcarona as well as something that can cover its weaknesses to psychic, ice, water, and Rotom-w.
First we should look for a partner that can break walls. We should get to the defensive teammates later. This can't be handled in one mon, but for the partner I'd make sure it can break special walls. We need a wallbreaker. Nido doesn't have many counters that wall it by typing because of its coverage. Once we get to the defensive core we will deal with Volcarona and Rotom-w. As for the partner, something like Expert Belt Mix Hydreigon would be a unexpected and powerful choice. With Draco Meteor / Flamethrower / Earthquake / Taunt it can damage any Blissey switching in and taunt it stop recovery to wear it down. Draco Metoer + Earthquake also deals with Heatran and Ttar who are potential checks to Nidoking. They share ice weaknesses so keep that in mind.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Use earth power instead instead of EQ as modest decreases atk. Or did you mean a diff nature ?