AP Shaco mid or bot taking blue at level 1 with boxes is quite powerful in solo queue because of the strength of his poke. You really have to clear it with your jungler, though, and you really can't justify his response. I know Hotshot tried that with AP Shaco, and he always coordinated it with a non-blue dependent jungler, even in solo queue.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
loliknorite? It almost would have been worth it to queue with him just to see his reaction. Plus I would have been at a great health since I wouldn't have had to take damage from the creeps.
@Jebus: Yeah, if I owned and was good with a jungler that didn't need blue and hadn't have already locked in Sejuani I would have been fine with it. But you don't demand it. That's just rude.
Guys, I have a question about Vladimir. Forgive me for how brief this is; I had a much more drawn out and eloquent post, but my phone likes to be stupid and exited the brower and reset my page...
Is Warmog's a good item for Vlad? It doesn't necessarily need to be rushed, and I know that takes away from its total potential, but building a survivability item later on isn't so bad, and his pool will deal more damage because of the extra health (I know it isn't an offensive move, but still). I also know Rylai's is pretty much core on him, so one runs the risk of having a Bloodrazor tear him apart, but it doesn't seem so bad. In addition, as useless as they may be for most, %health runes do exist, and Vlad is one of the few champs that can get away with building two health items and still benefit from %health. You need at least 3889 health at level 18 for %health seals to equal hp/18 seals, and Vlad can definitely hit that with Warmog's and Rylai's (and his AP items). And unlike most champs, on whom extra health is a bit more useless as time goes on, Vladimir can still get extra AP from it, however liittle that may be (and the large health boons for the first couple of levels is nice...).
And on the note of defensive over offensive, Heal seems pretty powerful on Vlad. Stacked Tides should make Heal be amazing throughout the entire game, especially during mid to late game teamfights.
Is Warmog's a good item for Vlad? It doesn't necessarily need to be rushed, and I know that takes away from its total potential, but building a survivability item later on isn't so bad, and his pool will deal more damage because of the extra health (I know it isn't an offensive move, but still). I also know Rylai's is pretty much core on him, so one runs the risk of having a Bloodrazor tear him apart, but it doesn't seem so bad. In addition, as useless as they may be for most, %health runes do exist, and Vlad is one of the few champs that can get away with building two health items and still benefit from %health. You need at least 3889 health at level 18 for %health seals to equal hp/18 seals, and Vlad can definitely hit that with Warmog's and Rylai's (and his AP items). And unlike most champs, on whom extra health is a bit more useless as time goes on, Vladimir can still get extra AP from it, however liittle that may be (and the large health boons for the first couple of levels is nice...).
And on the note of defensive over offensive, Heal seems pretty powerful on Vlad. Stacked Tides should make Heal be amazing throughout the entire game, especially during mid to late game teamfights.
nononononono
there is no reason whatsoever to build warmog's on vlad
you gain quite a substantial amount of health from building AP alone and the rest is best spent on resistances so you can survive the first initial seconds of a fight and HEAL. each point of health you heal will be effectively worth more with the more resistances you have. that's why spirit visage is usually core on him, that's why you can deal a ton of damage late-game and just not die.
with the typical vlad build being:
boots
revolver
WotA and CDR boots
spirit visage
deathcap
rylai's/void staff
QSS/GA/something
you don't have room for warmog's and any item you take out will typically serve a better purpose than warmog's would.
Yeah, Vlad easily hits 3-3.5k up with standard Vlad build items:going warmogs doesn't particularly make him stronger or significantly more durable, not to mention it is quite costly and hurts blade early damage advantage when rushed. Stick to ap/mpen.
On the topic of Vlad, does anyone still use cdr glyphs on him(or anyone else for the matter) anymore?? Scaling AP seems so much stronger thanks to the mastery changes ( probably old news but cdr still seems sweet in theory)
Ed
You hit 34% with masteries, Spirit Visage, and CDR boots, so there's not much use in those glyphs. Even if you sell your Spirit Visage late game, you can always replace it with a blue pot for 29% CDR or so.
Oh yeah, I agree Reno. And as Jebus said, he has more effective health with higher resistances due to his spell vampy abilities. =/ to be honest, I've been trying to find a champion on which %health runes are even remotely useful. I wish they'd buff them or something...most other runes have a point, but the newer runes are pretty lackluster. The thing about %health runes is that they require a ridiculous amount of health to be useful, which means you have to constantly prioritize health items to make any use of it. It kind of loses its appeal when you have to struggle to make it work. The worst part is that a simple .1% boost makes the health you need at level 18 to break even with hp/18 seals 3240, which is too easily attained with Warmog's...
If there was any doubt that chaox is the #1 AD Carry in the world I think you have to stfu...
the guy has only died ONCE this entire tournament...
the guy has only died ONCE this entire tournament...
rain man throw game
75 gold too expensive apparently
GG
75 gold too expensive apparently
GG
Wards wouldn't be able to stop Shyvana from counterjungling though. The problem was Irelia can't push against Shyvana because Shyvana does too much damage to Irelia, so every time Irelia was pushed to tower, Rain Man had to choose between csing at tower and chasing Shyvana in jungle. If you noticed, essentially every time Shyvana went to go counterjungle, Oddone wasn't there. They knew Shyvana was going to go counterjungle, but they couldn't do anything because Rain Man loses more by chasing instead of csing.
The irelia pick was bad. It did not work the first time, what makes them think it would work the second? They lost the last game in champ select with that pick. I was watching Dyrus streaming at the time and he was commentating it. He was literally yelling for a Yorick pick. I think that would have worked better, even Trynd would have been better. They needed something that could out push Shyv or at least hurt her lots.
Zoro: I've never heard of such a problem before. Sorry I can't help.
also:
this bitch broken as fuck
also:
this bitch broken as fuck
well yeah the rumble was bad
but the rest of my team suuuuucked
like we were losing badly despite me 3-0ing this rumble up top
by late game i could charge in and tank damage from 5 members of their team while just not dying and getting quadra kills
but the rest of my team suuuuucked
like we were losing badly despite me 3-0ing this rumble up top
by late game i could charge in and tank damage from 5 members of their team while just not dying and getting quadra kills
We started out down by a few kills because Cass gave up first blood to Anivia and then went right back at her and died again. Corki and Vayne gave up some kills early as well. Eventually I started picking off people from the jungle with my R. And then when it became teamfight time I was lethal. They never learned not to group up and let me stun all of them. They surrendered because we were up and GP started having computer problems.
Why do people use SV on Vlad, I just go straight AP on him because I don't get why you would get SV ?_?
mainly the CDR and the extra healing
aside from shurelya's and randuin's there aren't many other viable items that you can reasonably get on vlad to try and get some CDR anyway. even the mana regen part of shurelya's is wasted, but the active is good enough to make up for it
that's why most people end up getting CDR boots/visage on vlad since CDR is just so tasty on him
aside from shurelya's and randuin's there aren't many other viable items that you can reasonably get on vlad to try and get some CDR anyway. even the mana regen part of shurelya's is wasted, but the active is good enough to make up for it
that's why most people end up getting CDR boots/visage on vlad since CDR is just so tasty on him
Not to mention the awesomeness that is SV + 4 Tides stacks + Heal summoner spell. Nuke heal ftw.
Anywho, Jebus, Shyvana has never been weak. She does exceptionally well in the jungle, pushes waves like no one's business, has an AA reset that can proc on-hits twice, an MS boost, and free bulk that becomes even greater with her ult active. Her issue is her lack of CC. THAT is why you don't see her often; yes, she's strong, but most champs with a gap closer/CC should be able to get away from her. And that Rumbe makes me sad.....you still did well though, Shyv does good damage. Though clearly you should've gotten BT and TF and trolled with Q nukes, lol.
Sweet Wikey, I'm liking that Frozen Mallet on Sejuani.
Anywho, Jebus, Shyvana has never been weak. She does exceptionally well in the jungle, pushes waves like no one's business, has an AA reset that can proc on-hits twice, an MS boost, and free bulk that becomes even greater with her ult active. Her issue is her lack of CC. THAT is why you don't see her often; yes, she's strong, but most champs with a gap closer/CC should be able to get away from her. And that Rumbe makes me sad.....you still did well though, Shyv does good damage. Though clearly you should've gotten BT and TF and trolled with Q nukes, lol.
Sweet Wikey, I'm liking that Frozen Mallet on Sejuani.
Sparknotes... /judge
I really enjoy Shyvana but she definitely requires sort of specific circumstances to do well... not something I'd play in ranked 5s or a tournament or whatever unless we were running a super specific comp(or probably even solo queue since it's tough to get the for-sure kills early game), but I think the way M5 was using her is just about perfect -- she's the fastest jungler in the game, one of the faster creepwave pushers, doesn't use an energy resource, and has great escapability, so she's great for the push solos hard + counterjungle thing they do, since she's always ready to go in unless she's low at HP and does it quickly and safely. The lack of a charge or hard cc(especially now that she cant slow people by breathing fire with red buff) hurts the jungle version a lot since it makes her ganks pretty pathetic, and the laner has some issues too in that she doesn't really offer anything another bruiser wouldn't to a team comp if you aren't playing a style that takes advantage of the pushing. I have a hard time justifying the pick over other top tier junglers... even stuff like Jarvan(who I've recently found to be incredibly fun but don't really feel effective enough at to feel good about picking when it matters) is a lot easier to pick kills up with.
Also I bought Sejuani when she came out and keep meaning to use her more but have had a hard time justifying whipping her out, since if I'm picking a ganker I'd rather just play Maokai or Skarner or something and I'm trying to get comfortable with some other champions in practice matches as it is... I noticed Dan Dinh has a couple rune pages for her, one that's arp/armor/as/lifesteal and one thats mpen/armor/cdr/spell vamp, kinda hoping I catch him streaming as her to get some idea of what I want to try to emulate. Looks like he's going Philos/HOG/mercs into shurelyas/frozen heart/sunfire most games...
EDIT: Also to comment on TSM vs M5... it's really interesting to me how that worked out for TSM(and SK before them) since it seems like everyone at home had figured out the way m5 should probably be approached but the teams at the event hadn't. I think to stop the way they play there's kinda four things teams needed to do: 1) pick strong laners who can push to limit the mobility of enemy laners 2) ward own jungle, react quickly 3) dont pick passive supports (soraka, namely) so that M5 cant let their support roam early 4) time own buffs and make sure you're ready to get back to them on time because m5 will be. I think TSM failed at all of those every game but game 2, and a lot of other things people are pointing at are parts of one of those things. Definitely agree with Dyrus that of TRM's often played champions Yorick would have been the best choice by far -- especially since it'd let him clone Chaox later and bot lane was the strongest lane for TSM every game of the tournament -- but I suspect a lot of the teams who can will start running double AP against them since they tend to be better pushers(though there's balance since they need the dueling ability as well). I'll be eager to see how the NA teams do after they talk a bit the next month as they prepare for the IEM finals... Saint sure didn't sound like he was going to fall for the same old tricks and I imagine once they chat and look back some TSM won't, either. I think what M5 does is really interesting as a metagame counter though -- laning is usually super passive(outside of sort of mid) because teams typically just try to win through superior mechanics the first 20 minutes and try to stay back to defend themselves from ganks, so instead of trying to outperform them at that, M5 just lets teams play that game and wins the game around them, getting as much as they can out of every time their lane is pushed. Even their roaming top lane thing is pretty interesting, since I think top lane is the weak spot of most of the top 5 or so teams right now(especially CLG and TSM).
I really enjoy Shyvana but she definitely requires sort of specific circumstances to do well... not something I'd play in ranked 5s or a tournament or whatever unless we were running a super specific comp(or probably even solo queue since it's tough to get the for-sure kills early game), but I think the way M5 was using her is just about perfect -- she's the fastest jungler in the game, one of the faster creepwave pushers, doesn't use an energy resource, and has great escapability, so she's great for the push solos hard + counterjungle thing they do, since she's always ready to go in unless she's low at HP and does it quickly and safely. The lack of a charge or hard cc(especially now that she cant slow people by breathing fire with red buff) hurts the jungle version a lot since it makes her ganks pretty pathetic, and the laner has some issues too in that she doesn't really offer anything another bruiser wouldn't to a team comp if you aren't playing a style that takes advantage of the pushing. I have a hard time justifying the pick over other top tier junglers... even stuff like Jarvan(who I've recently found to be incredibly fun but don't really feel effective enough at to feel good about picking when it matters) is a lot easier to pick kills up with.
Also I bought Sejuani when she came out and keep meaning to use her more but have had a hard time justifying whipping her out, since if I'm picking a ganker I'd rather just play Maokai or Skarner or something and I'm trying to get comfortable with some other champions in practice matches as it is... I noticed Dan Dinh has a couple rune pages for her, one that's arp/armor/as/lifesteal and one thats mpen/armor/cdr/spell vamp, kinda hoping I catch him streaming as her to get some idea of what I want to try to emulate. Looks like he's going Philos/HOG/mercs into shurelyas/frozen heart/sunfire most games...
EDIT: Also to comment on TSM vs M5... it's really interesting to me how that worked out for TSM(and SK before them) since it seems like everyone at home had figured out the way m5 should probably be approached but the teams at the event hadn't. I think to stop the way they play there's kinda four things teams needed to do: 1) pick strong laners who can push to limit the mobility of enemy laners 2) ward own jungle, react quickly 3) dont pick passive supports (soraka, namely) so that M5 cant let their support roam early 4) time own buffs and make sure you're ready to get back to them on time because m5 will be. I think TSM failed at all of those every game but game 2, and a lot of other things people are pointing at are parts of one of those things. Definitely agree with Dyrus that of TRM's often played champions Yorick would have been the best choice by far -- especially since it'd let him clone Chaox later and bot lane was the strongest lane for TSM every game of the tournament -- but I suspect a lot of the teams who can will start running double AP against them since they tend to be better pushers(though there's balance since they need the dueling ability as well). I'll be eager to see how the NA teams do after they talk a bit the next month as they prepare for the IEM finals... Saint sure didn't sound like he was going to fall for the same old tricks and I imagine once they chat and look back some TSM won't, either. I think what M5 does is really interesting as a metagame counter though -- laning is usually super passive(outside of sort of mid) because teams typically just try to win through superior mechanics the first 20 minutes and try to stay back to defend themselves from ganks, so instead of trying to outperform them at that, M5 just lets teams play that game and wins the game around them, getting as much as they can out of every time their lane is pushed. Even their roaming top lane thing is pretty interesting, since I think top lane is the weak spot of most of the top 5 or so teams right now(especially CLG and TSM).
What about her ult charge? It's pretty similar to Unstoppable Force but with a lower cooldown early game. What's the problem with farming camps until at least 6 if she's as good a clearer as claimed? She doesn't really seem to be as situational or team comp dependent as jungle picks like Yi or Malphite.
I quit this game back when they ended mac support mainly because I was just pissed at them
but then last Monday I decide to finally download the Boompje version... and the next day the Sejuani patch is released, which made that version unplayable.
I gave in and finally downloaded something that will let me run Windows on my mac, so I guess I'll have to get used to playing high leveled opponents again :x
but then last Monday I decide to finally download the Boompje version... and the next day the Sejuani patch is released, which made that version unplayable.
I gave in and finally downloaded something that will let me run Windows on my mac, so I guess I'll have to get used to playing high leveled opponents again :x