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The Everything NFL Thread: 2011-2012 Season (plus free agency I guess)
- Thread starter WaterBomb
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Yeah, running QBs have had success in the NFL. BUT RGIII ISN'T A RUNNING QB! Why isn't anyone saying that Luck will have injury problems and not be good because he's a running QB? He had the same 40 time as Cam Newton!
McFlabb sucked in DC because he had been making up for his lack of accuracy, intelligence, and skill with his ability to make bad reads but complete the pass anyway because he had an amazing arm and his ability to make plays with his feet because he was hard as hell to tackle. Once he got old and his athleticism couldn't cover up for his deficiencies any more he sucked. That's why Philly was willing to deal him. They saw the end coming.
@WB: You're 100% right about Big Ben. He has good vision and so when he decides to run he usually gets the first despite being slow. He also is probably the hardest QB to bring down in my life time. He is definitely a very good QB who is made great by having running skills.
@Ancién Regime: Are you crossing your fingers that the Colts take RGIII so that the Redskins get Luck? Or have you already convinced yourself that RGIII is better because you assumed the Redskins are getting him? I'm in the second camp, I think. I know it's stupid but I feel like I"ll be upset if the Colts take Griffin. I don't see how they can though. They are really close if the "experts" are to be believed but the things Luck has over Griffin are better than the things Griffin has over Luck. All I've heard is that Griffin has a slightly stronger arm and is just a bit faster while Luck is taller, stockier, and has more experience in a pro-style offense. I'd give Luck the advantage if that's true. Also, I think it's safer for the Colts to take Luck just because if he takes RGIII and Luck turns out to be way better the fans will want blood for the team buying hype over substance. Whereas if they take Luck and RGIII is better they can just shrug and say, "Hey. This kid was the consensus #1 for two years. How could we possibly have known?"
McFlabb sucked in DC because he had been making up for his lack of accuracy, intelligence, and skill with his ability to make bad reads but complete the pass anyway because he had an amazing arm and his ability to make plays with his feet because he was hard as hell to tackle. Once he got old and his athleticism couldn't cover up for his deficiencies any more he sucked. That's why Philly was willing to deal him. They saw the end coming.
@WB: You're 100% right about Big Ben. He has good vision and so when he decides to run he usually gets the first despite being slow. He also is probably the hardest QB to bring down in my life time. He is definitely a very good QB who is made great by having running skills.
@Ancién Regime: Are you crossing your fingers that the Colts take RGIII so that the Redskins get Luck? Or have you already convinced yourself that RGIII is better because you assumed the Redskins are getting him? I'm in the second camp, I think. I know it's stupid but I feel like I"ll be upset if the Colts take Griffin. I don't see how they can though. They are really close if the "experts" are to be believed but the things Luck has over Griffin are better than the things Griffin has over Luck. All I've heard is that Griffin has a slightly stronger arm and is just a bit faster while Luck is taller, stockier, and has more experience in a pro-style offense. I'd give Luck the advantage if that's true. Also, I think it's safer for the Colts to take Luck just because if he takes RGIII and Luck turns out to be way better the fans will want blood for the team buying hype over substance. Whereas if they take Luck and RGIII is better they can just shrug and say, "Hey. This kid was the consensus #1 for two years. How could we possibly have known?"
Well... Aren't you being a little cynical? He may yet be speaking the truth as i really don't understand why it didn't work out. Though not as good as Elway, they are(were) in very similar situations(when 'Nabb joined the Skins and when Elway got Shanaham). Don't understand why he didn't have any success there....
I'll give you Elway(because i really should have said "in recent memory"), but Rodgers is not a running QB. Sure, he scrambles here and now, but he is clearly not 50/50 between running or passing(or even 75/25... Though someone would have to check that). Rodgers is more like BB than he is to Cam Newton. BB and Rodgers are just scramblers that take advantage of the defense. Cam Newton runs way too much. And those kinds of QBs don't really do much(Tebow, Vick and Young) and the more traditional QBs tend to win more consistently. Which is why i dont have high expectations from Newton.
And before someone jumps at it, no i don't think Tebow can be compared to Dick/Newton, since they can pass. But in general running QBs tend to do good until they get hurt... In Dicks case, its every other game. And its something that we should expect from Newton if he keeps it up. Hes young now, but he will start feeling it in a few years.
Also i measure sucess by Super Bowls won. Which is what QBs are paid for. Lastly, i like Newton but his future doesnt look good if he keeps running.
@wikye, RGlll has a very small frame and he is going to the Redskins... Who like a mobile qb and whose divisional opponents possess two of the scariest D lines in the league(Giants and the Eagles). I really just feel a little sorry knowing he has to go against the Giants pass rush twice in his rookie season. Though i guess the Skins will run it alot during his first year.
Measuring success by Super Bowls won is at times the most ignorant thing a football fan can do, and it happens way too often.
Cam Newton seems like a stronger QB in body type than that of Tebow or Vick. So I don't think it will be very easy for him to get injured like you say, some hero.
Here's why he didn't have success:
Cam Newton seems like a stronger QB in body type than that of Tebow or Vick. So I don't think it will be very easy for him to get injured like you say, some hero.
Here's why he didn't have success:
So I guess Dan Marino didn't have a successful career?
***BREAKING NEWS***
TRENT DILFER IS BETTER THAN DAN MARINO
I actually see what some hero is trying to say though. He's probably not articulating it well, but his point is that QBs who FAVOR the run over the pass GENERALLY don't see as much success in the long run because they get injured more easily. He's talking about the Vicks and Kordell Stewarts who were true runners, not Rodgers and Young and Elway and Roethlisberger who are great scramblers but not true runners. Cam Newton does have a stronger body type than the two examples I mentioned, but still those hits will begin to pile up eventually and he'll see some problems. Even the toughest RBs wear down around 30 after they've taken so many hits, so he's not immune. However, I think he will calm down over the next several years as he continues to develop, and he won't continue running at the pace he was in his rookie season.
1) Cam Newton is not a typical "running QB." He goes through his progressions and stays in the pocket as long as possible. I actually get frustrated with him staying in the pocket too long sometimes when there are running lanes available for him to take off and get 10+ yards.
2) Cam Newton does not get hit when he runs. Look at any of his highlights. He is great at making people miss. Whenever somebody is coming for a big hit he gets down right away to avoid any contact.
Just thought I'd clarify these points for people that only look at stats and make assumptions based off of numbers.
2) Cam Newton does not get hit when he runs. Look at any of his highlights. He is great at making people miss. Whenever somebody is coming for a big hit he gets down right away to avoid any contact.
Just thought I'd clarify these points for people that only look at stats and make assumptions based off of numbers.
Lol, I agree with what Justin had said. During the start of the season, Cam did lower his shoulder a few times, but eventually adapted to sliding and avoiding tackles and really isn't hit as often as it looks like.
Also, Panthers traded Mike Goodson to the Raiders for a OL. I'm not gonna complain, Mike Goodson became like the 4th down back despite him having some starting potential, hopefully he'll get to play more.
Also, Panthers traded Mike Goodson to the Raiders for a OL. I'm not gonna complain, Mike Goodson became like the 4th down back despite him having some starting potential, hopefully he'll get to play more.
Their arm strength is a push, though, I'd definitely say RGIII can throw from different positions, on the run, across the body, stuff like that harder than Luck can.
But RGIII is better for 4 reasons:
Better deep accuracy - RGIII is nearly automatic throwing deep in a way that few prospects ever have been. Luck is great there though.
Much better in "muddy" pockets - when RGIII gets pressured (literally every snap) he's calm and composed and makes the big play, though sometimes he bails early when it seems like the pocket breaks down THAT fast. Luck kind of is less than great when his future NFL starter OL gets beat.
RGIII pretty much WAS the Baylor offense - he had to make big plays downfield on the money all the time. Luck threw a lot of safe, wide-open throws created by play action off a dominant run game. He had TEs who were nearly uncoverable downfield, and never made "difficult" throws.
RGIII got similar results with WAY, way less talent. Stanford is going to get its entire left side of its OL drafted in the top 16. A TE in the first/early second. A pretty good defense as well. A dominant run game. RGIII had a 3rd round caliber WR that he made look like a 1st rounder, and a C who shouldn't get drafted?
I knew someone would bring up that guy from Ace Ventura. Things are not always black/white. There are always exceptions. That guy from Pet Detective is one of the few. Average Romo is an okay QB, certainly not bad. But if he plays at this level the rest of his career and doesnt win a SB, will he be remembered 40 years from now? I don't think so. So what im saying is that winning SBs is the best way to determine success. Unless posting ridiculous numbers like that guy from Ace Ventura did. And since most QBs wont do so, wining a SB is the safest way to determine/reach true success. Its not the only way, but the others are more random and less likely.
Don't watch any Panther games, so i wouldn't know. But if he doesn't start sliding or running out of bounds, he won't last. And again, im not exactly sure how many runs end with him sliding or running out of bounds.
did you even read what i said? i just said he doesnt get hit. holy shit. it was in the damn text you just quoted. what a flippin maroon.
Wow, way to show that you can read. I said i don't know how many of his runs end sliding/oob, and you said "he doesnt get hit". So i'm supposed to believe Mr. Newton is a God and somehow never gets touched? I'm supposed to trust you(who is clearly exaggerating)?
But fine, i'll take your word(which must clearly be backed up by facts) for it.
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